New Player Research: Sunny Skies or Gloomy Overcast

[Evilvision 301]

Really the only people who should be doing new player research should be code club and not us players.

[Mordekai 0]

To be honest I'm an old Wurmian who has recently returned to the game and since I no longer possess any of my old accounts or possessions its a ground zero situation for me, that being said its rough to retain new player base when you are in an era of instant gratification. there im sure will be alot of people that disagree with this but i believe that allowing new players to have their skills increase at a much much higher rate until say 25 which encourages them to buy that first premium and also helps to ensure that they have the ability to at least on some level get into the game a little more before they make that decision as to whether they will be long term Wurmians. Although I will point out that if this were a method chosen it would have to be made very clear that the skill increase slows way way down after the initial 25.

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

Yet at the same time.. if we retained, say, twice the rate of players that we do now.... that's many more deeds and that much less nice open and natural land to enjoy.  I love players but I enjoy beautiful natural landscapes a bit more...

[Chakron 1,025]

8 euros a month if what I pay for a triple A MMO with an active development team and playerbase.

Try viewing 8 euros a month in the context of how much time you put into Wurm, and how much time you have on this earth. Seems irrelevant now, right?

[Kadore 926]

The information is out there on other forums, just one I found searching for 30 seconds.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/389605/Wurm-Online-and-Why-I-left.html

[LorraineJ 1,099]

8 euros for a full month of unlimited entertainment is extremely cheap.

 

Why is everyone saying 8 euros? Isn't it 10?

[Edge 141]

Why is everyone saying 8 euros? Isn't it 10?

 

16 euro for 2 months in the shop, 80 euro for a year.

[Dairuka 888]

This thread is a great example of how not to do things scientifically. The initial setup reeks of bias. Then every third or fourth post on the first page, you're re-injecting your personal biases into the study.

 

Never start a research project with a conclusion already in mind.

 

The information is out there on other forums, just one I found searching for 30 seconds.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/389605/Wurm-Online-and-Why-I-left.html

 

This is unrelated... and call me a skeptic, but I don't believe anything nkitz is saying in this thread.

 

His story appears to change with the flow of the conversation, and his experience increases the more people question his motives.

He claims to be a former volunteer sound developer. He even goes so far as to claim to understand the relationship between Notch and Rolf, even though he originally stated hes played for 6+ years when commenting on a post dated August 2013, when Notch left on April 12, 2007. According to the Wurmpedia, the only three sound developers were Doughboy, Gurubear and Faeran. Doughboi/Taliesin's/Doughboy's forum accounts are dated for March 2010/August 2010/April 2011, Gurubear's forum account is dated to March 2008, Faeran's is March 2012. None of these former developers have similar typing styles to nkitz. The only one that is as aggressive as him is Doughboy. The only one with a sound developer related forum account start date close enough to the aforementioned 6+ years, and the date provided by Notch's departure is Gurubear. Most of us remember Gurubear, and hes never come off as vitriolic as nkitz has. If we ignore the dates, and use temperment and typing styles only: The only person he could be is Doughboy.

 

Further investigation on nkitz shows him to be a very active detractor against Wurm, with varying stories of relation on MMORPG.com...

 

If he is Doughboy (Which he most likely is, as hes mentioned being the mayor of Tyre, Doughboy's old city, multiple times as nkitz.), his previous forum posts on any of his related accounts shows very little relation to Rolf on the forums, or in the Wurmpedia/DawnTidePedia prior to 2010, most likely making his commentary about Notch and Rolf a third-party observation.

 

Either way, his stories about Rolf, Notch, and how Wurm is run don't check out. I could be wrong. I could be right. That's up to other people to decide.

 

This is why it's always important to question everything. Take information from all angles, and research everything using every tool at your disposal, then come to your conclusion based on the information presented to you. Hell, part of the reason my posts are always being edited is because I'm always discovering something new that I feel is pertinent to add to earlier posts. That's the power of real research.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Dairuka

[Slickshot 1,195]

This thread is a great example of how not to do things scientifically. The initial setup reeks of bias. Then every third or fourth post on the first page, you're re-injecting your personal biases into the study.

 

Never start a research project with a conclusion already in mind.

 

 

This is unrelated... and call me a skeptic, but I don't believe anything nkitz is saying in this thread.

 

His story appears to change with the flow of the conversation, and his experience increases the more people question his motives. He claims to be a former volunteer sound developer. He even goes so far as to claim to understand the relationship between Notch and Rolf, even though he originally stated hes only played for 6 years from August 2013, when Notch left on April 12, 2007.

According to the Wurmpedia, the only three sound developers were Doughboy, Gurubear and Faeran. Taliesin's/Doughboy's forum accounts are dated for August 2010/April 2011, Gurubear's forum account is dated to March 2008, Faeran's is March 2012. None of these developer's posts match the typing style of nkitz. None of them are as aggressive, or as blunt either. So unless Gurubear had a bad sandwich and turned into a jerk, I doubt nkitz is a former sound developer.

 

Further investigation on nkitz shows him to be a very active detractor against Wurm, with varying stories of relation on MMORPG.com...

 

His story doesn't check out.

 

This is why it's always important to question everything. Take information from all angles, and research everything using every tool at your disposal, then come to your conclusion based on the information presented to you.

 

Thank you for your candor.  With that being said, how about you share some ideas on how to improve player retention?  That would be entirely constructive and in-line with the goals set forth in this thread.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Slickshot

[Bachus 462]

All these people that run out of things to build after 6 months send them to me.

 I have been here 5 years and I am not done yet. 

[Dairuka 888]

All these people that run out of things to build after 6 months send them to me.

 I have been here 5 years and I am not done yet. 

 

This is something I go out of my way to teach new players.

 

Use your imagination, and find a project. Wurm is a game of self-made men, and only the goal oriented will ever survive here.

 

The reason my projects are so ridiculously large, and nearly impossible to complete - is because I don't want them to ever end. The moment your projects are done, is the moment your time in Wurm is done.

[geode 292]

And most of those games are inferior to Wurm

 

That entirely depends on what you are looking for in a MMO/Online Game. I have shown about 8 people Wurm now, everyone one of them gave a reason why they thought other games were better than Wurm. Here are the reasons I remember:

 

1.) Too much work. One person after seeing Wurm said the Devs should be paying the Players to play, not the Players paying for it (I disagree).

 

2.) Can't see their character (no third person view). They want to see their characters and they want a wide choice of armor/outfits/costumes. Most comments centered on Player Vanity mostly. (I got used to first person but my friends don't like that perspective at all in a game.)

 

3.) Too expensive for a Player in the U.S. (due to exchange rate) compared with other MMOs and their cost. It's not that Wurm is truly expensive, it is that Wurm is more expensive than many other games, partly because of F2P and partly because of the $15 U.S. subscriptions that include everything MMOs, still some of them around. A couple of my friends specifically said why should they pay more for Wurm (premium for each character and deed) than they do for the MMO they play, another friend said they thought it a "Rip Off" that we have to pay premium on each character for Wurm when they pay a $15 sub for 10 characters in their MMO. (I agree but I think Wurm is overall a good value because it offers in content what the others do not, hard to convince others though when they have decided they don't like other things about Wurm.)

 

There were other reasons why certain People I showed Wurm to did not like it, but it was stuff like "I want to be told what to do" and "I don't like creative stuff". I just figure Wurm isn't for them plain and simple.

 

Someone already said it in this thread... Wurm is not for everyone. I have played for years and have shown Wurm to several People, but not one showed the slightest bit of true interest in it like what I experience, they all turn away. Perhaps the portion of the People that Wurm will attract is so small that THAT itself is Wurm's biggest hurdle. In a world were everything is a failure unless it goes "Viral" perhaps we should be happy with the players we DO have.

Edited August 4, 2015 by geode

[Caveman 86]

It's funny and weird how so many people of the community are attempting to take on unofficial roles in analyzing game "data". First of all, you have no real data, all you have is what you feel. Secondly, let the company that we pay money to, do what we pay them to do. They have the tools, knowledge, and ability, you don't.

 

This is just another thread that makes the game look bad.

[Elktazahjr 131]

It's funny and weird how so many people of the community are attempting to take on unofficial roles in analyzing game "data". First of all, you have no real data, all you have is what you feel. Secondly, let the company that we pay money to, do what we pay them to do. They have the tools, knowledge, and ability, you don't.

This is just another thread that makes the game look bad.

I really wonder why so many people are opposing this thread? We aren't proposing definite changes are we? We're just discussing what possible aspects of the game is bad for new players in a way that it could make them quit and how to improve on the weaker aspects.

wonder what's there to be so afraid of?

the fact that we lost ~400-500 players online at peak hour since the launch of xanadu is not "a feeling" mate, it's an observable fact.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Elktazahjr

[Eobersig 1,006]

...

Additionally, every time a builder builds something, somewhere down the road that becomes ruins for the survival players to take shelter in, or explore. ...

 

In my experience, that is not what the typical survival player wants, he does not want to live in rotting ruins and the general mess of a decaying place. Small wonder it is, because Wurm does a very bad job when it comes to re-using land, esp. when it's a new player that might want to re-use it. Practically the game makes it impossible for new players to settle on previously used land:

• New players lack the digging skill to remove the pits and dirt walls the previous settler left behind.
• New players lack the body strength and the means to load all these forges and ovens and other stuff onto a cart/wagon to cart them out of sight.
• New players lack the body strength to bash things, like these "eternal" planted lamps and the huge expanses of paved flatness with tall walls all around.

In general that's a design fault with Wurm in this respect. Wurm allows players to shape the land and to build structures on it - but the game lacks efficient means to undo all that when the player has left.

 

[Bachus 462]

In my experience, that is not what the typical survival player wants, he does not want to live in rotting ruins and the general mess of a decaying place. Small wonder it is, because Wurm does a very bad job when it comes to re-using land, esp. when it's a new player that might want to re-use it. Practically the game makes it impossible for new players to settle on previously used land:

• New players lack the digging skill to remove the pits and dirt walls the previous settler left behind.
• New players lack the body strength and the means to load all these forges and ovens and other stuff onto a cart/wagon to cart them out of sight.
• New players lack the body strength to bash things, like these "eternal" planted lamps and the huge expanses of paved flatness with tall walls all around.

In general that's a design fault with Wurm in this respect. Wurm allows players to shape the land and to build structures on it - but the game lacks efficient means to undo all that when the player has left.

 

  Although I totally agree that the inability to dig or bash is frustrating for new players the reasons that digging on paved areas, bashing, and other abilities were made premium only was due to people using FTP alts to grief. 

  Perhaps a solution could be reducing these restrictions on deeds were they are a citizen with permission to do them but leaving the current requirement for off deed excavation and bashing. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by Bachus

[Caveman 86]

I really wonder why so many people are opposing this thread? We aren't proposing definite changes are we? We're just discussing what possible aspects of the game is bad for new players in a way that it could make them quit and how to improve on the weaker aspects.

wonder what's there to be so afraid of?

the fact that we lost ~400-500 players online at peak hour since the launch of xanadu is not "a feeling" mate, it's an observable fact.

[Edge 141]

This thread is a great example of how not to do things scientifically. The initial setup reeks of bias. Then every third or fourth post on the first page, you're re-injecting your personal biases into the study.

 

Never start a research project with a conclusion already in mind.

 

 

This is unrelated... and call me a skeptic, but I don't believe anything nkitz is saying in this thread.

 

His story appears to change with the flow of the conversation, and his experience increases the more people question his motives.

He claims to be a former volunteer sound developer.

He even goes so far as to claim to understand the relationship between Notch and Rolf, even though he originally stated

hes played for 6+ years

when commenting on a post dated August 2013, when

Notch left on April 12, 2007

.

According to the Wurmpedia

, the only three sound developers were Doughboy, Gurubear and Faeran. Doughboi/Taliesin's/Doughboy's forum accounts are dated for March 2010/August 2010/April 2011, Gurubear's forum account is dated to March 2008, Faeran's is March 2012. None of these former developers have similar typing styles to nkitz. The only one that is as aggressive as him is Doughboy. The only one with a sound developer related forum account start date close enough to the aforementioned 6+ years, and the date provided by Notch's departure is Gurubear. Most of us remember Gurubear, and hes never come off as vitriolic as nkitz has. If we ignore the dates, and use temperment and typing styles only: The only person he could be is Doughboy.

 

Further investigation on nkitz shows him to be a very active detractor against Wurm, with varying stories of relation on MMORPG.com...

 

If he is Doughboy

(Which he most likely is, as hes mentioned being the

mayor of Tyre

, Doughboy's old city, multiple times as nkitz.)

, his previous forum posts on any of his related accounts shows very little relation to Rolf on the forums, or in the Wurmpedia/DawnTidePedia prior to 2010, most likely making his commentary about Notch and Rolf a third-party observation.

 

Either way, his stories about Rolf, Notch, and how Wurm is run don't check out. I could be wrong. I could be right. That's up to other people to decide.

 

This is why it's always important to question everything. Take information from all angles, and

research everything

using every tool at your disposal, then come to your conclusion based on the information presented to you. Hell, part of the reason my posts are always being edited is because I'm always discovering something new that I feel is pertinent to add to earlier posts. That's the power of real research.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Edge

[hvergi 177]

The last two people that I took in on wurm, had the following to say about why they stopped playing.

 

Person 1-

The market had little to offer for low or mid ranged players, other then bulk goods which are difficult to transport at that point.

Sailing took way to long.

Lots of skills to train, but many are filler and needed more depth.

 

Person 2-

Skill gain felt unbalanced between skills.

Lack of critters, and the ones found where all easy or death nothing really in between  ----Leveled his account to 50ish fs with 60-80ql gear

The client was in Java it kept getting disabled by his antivirus for having security issues.

[Slickshot 1,195]

Other than a few oddly pessimistic folk, the comments so far have been great!  The lack of opinions from newer players is disappointing, however we've had a lot of veterans so far outline what they saw as weak points when they were new and when they had newbie villagers/friends.  This might not be hardcore data, but player surveying such as this is important.

 

One thing to add:  Code Club might have the specific data count that we do not, and it's very possible they plan to use that on a larger scale to do some good for the community, however it just hasn't happened yet.  In the meantime I don't see any problem in having research, data, and surveys collected from the player base by other players.  We are a small community, but a passionate one.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to do what we can to improve our own gameplay and environment, and why should there be?  We invest in this game not because we hope and pray the Devs will release the most magical features ever designed by mankind, but because, for better or worse, we love this game.  We love the atmosphere.  We love the creativity, and most of all we love the freedom it gives us to do what we want, when we want!  If that means we have the ability to collect our own data, and make our own impact on this game, then I encourage and empower the playerbase on their endeavors even more so.

[Lolabelle 597]

 

After building a house, many people want to have a goal. A goal set by the game. They find it difficult to make their own story and follow their own path. They simply are lost on what to do next.

Agreed.  Would be nice if we had better ingame goals as we leveled up more.  Yes I know there are missions, those however are crazy sometimes requiring loads of travel and skill.The current goal system is a bit silly at times.   I did like that you used to have to talk to a trainer in Newtown a few times to get your gear.  Something like that would be cool.  more gear or something as you accomplish tasks.

[hankrearden 144]

The market had little to offer for low or mid ranged players, other then bulk goods which are difficult to transport at that point.

 

I think this is an important point.  participating in the market would be a goal for many once they get set up, but as it is right now with cheap mail costs everyone can get high ql stuff for reasonable price from the elite crafters.  in my opinion higher mail costs would allow some mid level crafters to grab some local market share (and possibly stay for longer) - but people go ape crazy if you talk about taking away their cheap mail.

[Shiraek 464]

I guess if you want to find out why newer players who DON'T stick around are leaving, the forum would be roughly the last place on earth to start. They aren't going to spend 5 minutes getting sick of wurm and then make a forum account to explain why. They're gone to the next shiny thing.

 

In my experience, free players are fractionally invested compared to players who've paid upfront, even if its a small amount, and any kind of clunkiness or ugliness will have them skipping off to play the next shiny. Ascent's retention rate and what I'd call "penetration rate" - or how far players progress in the main quest line, are both terrible with the free web version, and excellent with our steam build. The gameplay is identical, the graphics aren't that different and the stability is similar... so the main factor is web vs. PC/Steam build and free vs. pay up front.

 

I found Steam to be a FAR better source of players who are willing to check out a game in depth and perhaps overlook some clunk for the promise of some good gameplay. And once someone's put a few dollars down on your product, they'll give it more than five minutes... maybe ten, maybe even an hour, to shine, before giving up on it.

I think Wurm is a wonderful game, but its first 5 minutes to first one hour of play fail to show its strengths and can't compete with successful "Free To Play" games. If you're giving away free samples, they need to be addictive, super pretty and super polished, and hook players in that first 5 minutes. That to me isn't the story of a typical Wurm player. Wurm players read about Wurm somewhere and come in determined to check it out and give it a really good go. That's my story and it took me 24 hours of actual play to get seriously hooked. That's not what most "Free To Play" players are willing to put in.

It also channels newbies into its weaknesses (Combat, PVP as a day one newbie) instead of putting them in a newbie area with newbie quests that play to the game's strengths (terraforming, freeform construction, crafting). This probably doesn't help.

And neither does the antiquated, ultra low tech engine that's CPU bottlenecked on any modern GPU I try to play it on, making for some bad performance and mediocre visuals.

Free to play / random walkins from the web + ugly + clunky = very very high newbie turnover rate.

[Klaa 4,872]

I protest the usage of newbie players in your sick experiments and data gathering!

[Mordraug 2,542]

 

• Population density - Exodus made me run for the hills, way too dense... Release was nice but still hellish to find a good spot (pre-xanadu)
• Complicated game mechanics - I'm a sucker for pain so I ploughed through it, but the loss of time and resources as a result was brutal.  Can't speak for the new tutorial but doubt it'll make THAT much difference in the grand scheme of things.
• Friends - That was the easy part for me, but could have gone south fast given my experiences and others' later on.
• Slow beginnings - The RNG is downright ridiculous, once again, you're a sucker for pain or you walk.
• Premium - Nah, it's MUCH harder to STAY premium as you realize certain aspects of the status quo, many threads on that.
• Goals - Build a house, get 4-legged transport, that part seems very stable among new players.

Special Request: Keep it civil in here amongst yourselves. Bashing other players directly or by name isn't what this thread is about.

 

 

Part II

 

Things that confused me epically:  

 

Deeds/villages:  Turns out they're the same thing.    Took me a bit to realize that my "village" was actually an "alliance, that I was a "citizen" in someone's "deed", that my "deed" was actually an (back then) enclosure, and fortunately my finances ain't bad or paying extra for a deed would have rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Making a hammer/anvil combo.  Sounds hella simple after you finally do it but until then... DAYUM.

 

Mind logic/body control:  I could have been on a cart WAY sooner had I known.  Should be in the tutorial.

 

 

Now, since I met people on day 1 (I don't count Exodus), wasn't troublesome picking a spot that wouldn't offend anyone, but I can see where certain spots I had in mind would have gotten me promptly perimetered over.  Would have been an instaquit as newbies treasure every plank.

 

Enclosures' rule was in back then, had I joined now and had my "deed" (enclosure) raided, would have made me walk too.

 

No light source:  that's just wrong, give the poor bastards a Q30 newbie lantern to start with.  It'll also save them trouble with the neighbors since a good technique to find your way back from the water source to your house is to leave a trail of campfires which involves chopping.

 

Newbie compass:  bring it down to 10 seconds.   15 seconds.... irl that's slow already, and Wurm time is 8x faster so 2 minutes for a compass to stabilize, that's unnecessary punishment toward the disoriented-as-hell new player.

 

"Personal" highways:  folks who NEED, for some reason, to branch off a 2-wide from a proper highway to their deed entrance creates some badass death traps.  Died a few times running from initially dodging a troll only to have to turn around because the "highway" ended in a wall..bad stuff if stamina was low.

 

And well, with the necessary paranoia players need to have what with all the griefer protections, would have definitely walked if on a ***PVE*** server I'd received the welcome of a potential thief alt.