Raiding Mechanics Issues and Suggestions

[Xallo 2,599]

So I've spent some more time on Chaos, and I feel that the following are bugs, and/or are detremental to PvP/Raiding as a whole. A lot of people will probably shoot this down for their own agenda, but I think we all know that the following are huge issues, so please keep flaming down to a minimum:

 

 

 

Lamps, Signs, etc take ridiculous amounts of effort to be bashed. Please allow them to be stolen, or bashed 100x faster, as with any plantable item. It's silly doing .2dmg per hit to a Lamp, when you can plant 50 per tile.

 

Draining deeds should not be capped at 5x. I feel that people on a PvP server completely understand the risks associated with deed building, and that the only deeds that will ever get close to a 5x are those deeds planted simply to block influence. The only way to remove a deed from existence is to continuously drain it, but that's impossible when someone doesn't care about the silver cost, so gladly dumps in 3s/day to keep a deed alive. 3E isn't a lot of money. Perhaps at 5x, it could auto-disband?

 

Unfinished fences and house walls should not block a Structure from being removed. Upon destruction of a fence, replace it with an "Incomplete" wall, thus needing to be bashed first instead of being rebuilt. Incomplete walls should not block terraforming, though.

 

Incomplete walls on houses should not block a structure's removal. Instead, when all walls are down on a house, minus a handful of 'Unfinished' walls, allow the structure to be removed. Also, house plans, etc, should not block terraforming or fence building either. Fences and floors apart of a house plan should not hold the structure together either.

 

Insane pits can still be created in excess of 200+ slope via tunneling. Either allow us to surface mine 200+ again, or cap tunnel entrances at max skill as well.

 

Walls, etc, can be finished through a Mine Door. I think this is a bug.

 

Fences can still be built in excess of 40+ slope on the edges of tunnel entrances. I think this is left over code from when Wurm was 2D, and should be addressed.

 

Twitter is a touchy subject, but I feel it's not neccesary on PvP servers. Every Kingdom has a form of "alert" system associated with it, and I feel it completely removes any edges a raiding party would have on a normally empty local. I would even go to the lengths of suggesting that any form of "log reader" should not be allowed, but that's not really easy to police.

 

There should be a time limit to teleport to your deed via Recall Home and Karma. The original idea behind them was to allow people to "Recall Home," or in other words, return home, not teleport to a deed being raided. I feel that if you want to get to a deed without any risks associated, you should spend the 5s for a Twig or Stone. I would personally set this limit to 24hrs upon joining a new village. BTW, this is coming from a person with over 80 Meditation and 20k Karma, so I know the effort required for both.

 

 

Constructive criticism appreciated, as well as any ideas, comments, or suggestions. I'll be adding more to this over time.

 

Maybe raiding will be fun again when we can actually raid properly.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Xallo

[AceRifle 1,223]

Saw the topic. Saw the OP was Xallo. Automatic +1

[Ragzad 102]

also, bashing with large mauls should be more damaging since the only viable way to get into a deed is catapulting at the moment and that makes it easier for us to bash into loot mines on deed which can take hours upon hours without a big group which is ridiculous and not much fun

EDIT:+1

Edited July 31, 2015 by Ragzad

[madnezz 555]

-1 to all of it.  Raiding is not supposed to be ezmode.  You complain about not enough pvp and yet these suggestions work to prevent pvp.  

 

Twitter and the ability to karma in to a deed promotes pvp as it allows players to respond to raids.  You are selfishly asking for no resistance to deed de-construction.  Its not bad enough you pick the times with least amount of people on chaos to raid, midnight to 6 am est US time when most Americans are sleeping and Europeans are working, you want to prevent people from knowing you are raiding and if they find out you want to prevent the rest of their kingdom to come to the deed and defend since you will strategically do your best to block all entrances to the deeds from the outside.  

 

As for the rest of the complaining listed, there are pvp solutions to most of them.  You may not like them or choose not to pvp to prevent them but that is not the fault of the deed builders working within the rules.  Every deed starts with open ground, the pvp everyone seems to crave.  To further prove a point, we spent all day repairing a deed that was damaged by the OP and instead of engaging in PVP to prevent the repairs, he would rather come to the forums instead and beg for the rules to be changed.

 

One thing I don't understand about some who play this game is their arrogant need to always ask for rule changes because they find something difficult or inconvenient to do.  If you don't like the rules on Chaos there are several other servers and/or games to choose from.

 

If there is a pvp solution that the minimum amount of players required to form a PMK can solve then there does not need to be interference from the development staff or gms, save the man hours.  It is unnecessary to dumb down this game to the point where a handful of accounts can rampage the server and destroy everything in their path.

Edited July 31, 2015 by madnezz

[Lundu 293]

Seems like good points.

 

+1

[Redd 4,281]

-1 to all of it.  Raiding is not supposed to be ezmode.

This ^. Keep your ideas on freedom where it belong.

[Cornchips 3,037]

+1 to disallowing twitter, deeds disbanding at x amount of drains, lamps bashable, and limits to any kind of deed teleporting

 

I don't have much experience on anything else written about but they're probably well thought out or could be looked at too

[Edge 141]

Yes to the bugfixes, NO to all the suggestions to make it even easier than it already is.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Edge

[Twinsen 350]

Lamps, Signs, etc take ridiculous amounts of effort to be bashed. Please allow them to be stolen, or bashed 100x faster, as with any plantable item. It's silly doing .2dmg per hit to a Lamp, when you can plant 50 per tile.

 

+1 to this.

 

Draining deeds should not be capped at 5x. I feel that people on a PvP server completely understand the risks associated with deed building, and that the only deeds that will ever get close to a 5x are those deeds planted simply to block influence. The only way to remove a deed from existence is to continuously drain it, but that's impossible when someone doesn't care about the silver cost, so gladly dumps in 3s/day to keep a deed alive. 3E isn't a lot of money. Perhaps at 5x, it could auto-disband?

 

Please no auto-disband at 5x. Increase the amount drained instead.

 

Unfinished fences and house walls should not block a Structure from being removed. Upon destruction of a fence, replace it with an "Incomplete" wall, thus needing to be bashed first instead of being rebuilt. Incomplete walls should not block terraforming, though.

 

This already existed on challenge. The incomplete fences disappeared after some time. Don't remember if you could bash them. +1

 

Incomplete walls on houses should not block a structure's removal. Instead, when all walls are down on a house, minus a handful of 'Unfinished' walls, allow the structure to be removed. Also, house plans, etc, should not block terraforming or fence building either. Fences and floors apart of a house plan should not hold the structure together either.

 

Incomplete walls should act like house plans. I think house plans blocking terraforming is ok. That forces you to remove the whole house to terraform.

 

Insane pits can still be created in excess of 200+ slope via tunneling. Either allow us to surface mine 200+ again, or cap tunnel entrances at max skill as well.

 

Something should be done about strongwall mining. +1

 

Walls, etc, can be finished through a Mine Door. I think this is a bug.

 

+1

 

Fences can still be built in excess of 40+ slope on the edges of tunnel entrances. I think this is left over code from when Wurm was 2D, and should be addressed.

 

+1

 

Twitter is a touchy subject, but I feel it's not neccesary on PvP servers. Every Kingdom has a form of "alert" system associated with it, and I feel it completely removes any edges a raiding party would have on a normally empty local. I would even go to the lengths of suggesting that any form of "log reader" should not be allowed, but that's not really easy to police.

 

I don't like log readers. Twitter should stay IMO. -1

 

There should be a time limit to teleport to your deed via Recall Home and Karma. The original idea behind them was to allow people to "Recall Home," or in other words, return home, not teleport to a deed being raided. I feel that if you want to get to a deed without any risks associated, you should spend the 5s for a Twig or Stone. I would personally set this limit to 24hrs upon joining a new village. BTW, this is coming from a person with over 80 Meditation and 20k Karma, so I know the effort required for both.

 

This or disallow karma or teleport home when enemies are in local of the deed.

[Dyson 61]

I swear you sniff paint Xallo. Please consider all sides of this argument before posting such folly

[WesncIsMe 492]

[Silentnight 30]

Deed raiding even as stated by rolf is not supposed to be easy, its impossible to be at a deed 24/7 and twitter allows a fair opportunity for all to defend themselves from deed deconstruction while offline etc. Im all for fixing bugs but i disagree with removing twitter and or changing karma as it stands its fine and working as intended.

[platinumteef 2,202]

+1 to all except twitter change. 

[Zao 196]

I would have to agree with everything with the exception of the twitter and the teleporting. I think allowing people to move around the server easily allows more PVP and makes it more fun. I think it should be encouraged.

 

In regards to the twitter thing, raiding a deed with nobody in it is not PVP, its not even fun. Raiding a deed with only spirit templar is just an evolved form of PVE. I love group PVP.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Zao

[RomaN 890]

Planted objects taking so long to destroy surely has to be bug and needs to be looked at, not just on chaos but freedom too. I did some renovations recently as well as build the Tap Dance Bridge on Celebration and it took forever to destroy even just 1 lamp that got in the way of construction. It's extremely costly to found a deed just for removing a few unwanted lamps and sometimes not even possible. On PVP servers, they cause issues for players wanting to collapse/destroy cave tiles. Damage needs to be increased to them.

Overall, these are mostly good suggestions that should be brought to the developer's attention at the very least.

[MetalDragon 1,630]

YESSSSSSS

unfortunately xallo you bundled a lot together so you're going to get more negative responses for specific things which in turn will give the whole topic the negative vibe.

There are a few things on that list which EVERYONE KNOWS are unacceptable gameplay mechanics that either need to be changed or tweaked.

1. lamps/signs and other plantables - damage to bash these items on chaos should be increased - do you understand how long these take to bash on top of the fact you can plant unlimited amounts on a tile vs how fast they are to make? also taking into account they are usually under a mine door which is also another thing you need to bash (even less bash damage when on-deed!)

2. increase the amount of stackable drains I would agree, but no auto disband.

3. incomplete fences / walls I agree with if they are non-houses. although I guess it could apply to house walls too as people should effectively use internal walls for hops. I don't agree with house plans not stopping terraforming on walls, I think this would make raiding too easy to ninja in and out.

4. Don't agree with capping mines, but I also don't like the whole put a house in a pit to make it very difficult to hit a house (have to mess around with silly height mechanics, and specific angles)

5. any actions done through a mine door imo is not right, unless it's on the specific tile border surrounding the mine.

6. There is no need for the any slope wall around mine entrances any more due to mine door mechanics, these now cause more problems on PvE than they fix imo.

7. twitter system, I think could have less information on, it gives too specific information for the enemy to make their judgement on what they should do. I think it should be changed so guards and twitter doesn't include player names.

8. Teleporting into deed (by swapping village) is another feature I don't agree with. Mostly because of how often you can do it, and mechanics to reset the cooldown for village transfers. If you swap village there should be a cooldown before you can teleport into the deed or make changing villages even longer (which I don't think folks would like )

[RomaN 890]

7. twitter system, I think could have less information on, it gives too specific information for the enemy to make their judgement on what they should do. I think it should be changed so guards and twitter doesn't include player names.

Agree with this too.

"The settlement alarm has been raised!"

[dasfry 33]

Draining deeds should not be capped at 5x.

 

I feel that people on a PvP server completely understand the risks associated with deed building, and that the only deeds that will ever get close to a 5x are those deeds planted simply to block influence. The only way to remove a deed from existence is to continuously drain it, but that's impossible when someone doesn't care about the silver cost, so gladly dumps in 3s/day to keep a deed alive. 3E isn't a lot of money. Perhaps at 5x, it could auto-disband?

 

Hi Xallo,

 

Can you explain what "5x" means?

 

Can you explain what "3E" means?

[Xallo 2,599]

 

Agree with this too.

"The settlement alarm has been raised!"

 

 

Well, the problem with Twitter is that each account is tied to only one village, and they can be named to replicate their village, so unfortunately that wouldn't help.

[Zekezor 3,188]

Hi Xallo,

 

Can you explain what "5x" means?

5 times

Can you explain what "3E" means?

3€ (euro, currency)

[CIRAY 1,414]

+1

[aamanus 1,488]

You guys planning a raid some time soon?

[MetalDragon 1,630]

You guys planning a raid some time soon?

[CIRAY 1,414]

Hey I have an idea, fix catapulting already. It's absolutely retarded how buggy catapulting is. There are ###### mechanics that make no sense and just hinder progress. For instance, if you have an altar on the tile directly North or West of the tile your catapult is on, it won't let you shoot, saying "the area is too crowded." What's the point in this when you can shoot if the altar is on South or East side? Seriously, fix catapulting and I guarantee it will be a bit more enjoyable, maybe even a bit easier without making it 'too easy.'

[MrGARY 12,421]

Lamps, Signs, etc take ridiculous amounts of effort to be bashed. Please allow them to be stolen, or bashed 100x faster, as with any plantable item. It's silly doing .2dmg per hit to a Lamp, when you can plant 50 per tile.

 

-1 to stolen/bashed, people use them for legit purposes too so this would promote griefing.  Just reduce/remove anything that makes "too crowded to catapult", simple fix without hurting the game

 

Draining deeds should not be capped at 5x. I feel that people on a PvP server completely understand the risks associated with deed building, and that the only deeds that will ever get close to a 5x are those deeds planted simply to block influence. The only way to remove a deed from existence is to continuously drain it, but that's impossible when someone doesn't care about the silver cost, so gladly dumps in 3s/day to keep a deed alive. 3E isn't a lot of money. Perhaps at 5x, it could auto-disband?

 

HELL NO.  Not all of us are money-bags and should not suffer because of someone else that can afford it.  What if after the 5th drain you got enough of the deed built and some defenders to prevent more drains?  Auto-disband is crap and should never, ever exist in this game ever.  I understand what the issue is, but lets not punish every single person playing pvp because of a select few k?

 

Unfinished fences and house walls should not block a Structure from being removed. Upon destruction of a fence, replace it with an "Incomplete" wall, thus needing to be bashed first instead of being rebuilt. Incomplete walls should not block terraforming, though.

 

-1 to the rubble wall that challenge had.  Replacing walls is part of defending.  Make unfinished walls easier to remove, 10 seconds instead of 40.  Even make it take 1 catapult hit to remove, or the cata just ignores it and once all complete walls are gone then writ poofs.

 

Incomplete walls on houses should not block a structure's removal. Instead, when all walls are down on a house, minus a handful of 'Unfinished' walls, allow the structure to be removed. Also, house plans, etc, should not block terraforming or fence building either. Fences and floors apart of a house plan should not hold the structure together either.

 

House plans should block terraforming, -1

 

Insane pits can still be created in excess of 200+ slope via tunneling. Either allow us to surface mine 200+ again, or cap tunnel entrances at max skill as well.

 

Dunno, I can see how it's abusable, but strongwall mining is sometimes the only way to properly terraform things in ways that doesn't provide an unfair advantage (pits etc), no comment I guess until there's a solution that fixes everything without penalizing terraforming. 

 

Walls, etc, can be finished through a Mine Door. I think this is a bug.

 

I can see this as an issue if so, have mine entrance block it

 

Fences can still be built in excess of 40+ slope on the edges of tunnel entrances. I think this is left over code from when Wurm was 2D, and should be addressed.

 

-1 unless there is some other way to protect a mine door from being bashed on the side

 

Twitter is a touchy subject, but I feel it's not neccesary on PvP servers. Every Kingdom has a form of "alert" system associated with it, and I feel it completely removes any edges a raiding party would have on a normally empty local. I would even go to the lengths of suggesting that any form of "log reader" should not be allowed, but that's not really easy to police.

 

-1 I don't care about alert systems for a kingdom, I'd like to watch my own deeds because I can't be on all servers/clusters at the same time and that goes for many others.  Another one for the group of not penalizing everyone because of a few

 

There should be a time limit to teleport to your deed via Recall Home and Karma. The original idea behind them was to allow people to "Recall Home," or in other words, return home, not teleport to a deed being raided. I feel that if you want to get to a deed without any risks associated, you should spend the 5s for a Twig or Stone. I would personally set this limit to 24hrs upon joining a new village. BTW, this is coming from a person with over 80 Meditation and 20k Karma, so I know the effort required for both.

 

YES.  Let real villagers teleport home to defend, but prevent spam join/teleport as that is beyond abusable.  24 hours to a week, I don't care how long as long as legit villagers are not affected

 

Ultimately I would prefer a large advantage to defenders as they have so much more to lose.  Raids in Wurm can mean dying and losing everything on you, losing every single item you own, all of your horses killed, your grass/farms packed, and sometimes forced to disband.  I'm aware of what it's like to lose everything/horses as I've gone through it several times, it is hard and can and will drive newer and even some older players to quit.  A raiding party only risks what they decide to bring to the raid if they die.