Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Wurm has evolved from the point when it was possible to ask 1s for 50ql tool. Long since. But new players still keep coming to Wurm. Those new players go look into merchant posts which sell tools that are 80ql, 90ql, 91ql, 92ql, etc... Who would be happy with 50ql tools? Edited July 31, 2015 by Raybarg 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 If this vote gets more yes than no what will happen? 50ql tools go back to 1s? Or everyone gets cheap 50ql tools? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 I think one thing the new person is going to have to know is that lower QL tool = longer timer and yes grind but = skill gain. When imping items have higher ql then the imped level needed = easier or more consistent success rates ive found. So higher QL is not always the best way to go. Right now im grinding masonry with a 8QL 91 coc chisel. Why well because longer timers = skill gains and no im bypassing the whole woa-coc skill gain debate. Point being I still have stuff I use thats lower QL and it suits just fine. IF you want to go faster or have something stronger or last longer then yeah i can see higher ql tools being needed 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) I remember back when I started, 50ql tools fetched 50c (which was the highest pricepoint i've ever seen it). I remember being like a month old into the game and thinking: "well, no one's going to buy 50ql tools from me when they can buy all this 70ql, 80ql and better stuff." So I did what everyone else does.... worked my skill up to 70+.Of course a bit later, I learned that lower ql tools sometimes affected skillgain (in a positive manner). And some merchants do pay money for bulk low ql tools. I feel like they have their place in the game. Edited July 31, 2015 by As_I_Decay Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 I've certainly bought 50QL - reason being that they were prices I could afford. But that's also around where I draw the line, I probably wouldn't buy anything under that. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 I think 50QL certainly have their place and worth. I got a set of 50QL tools from a neighbour when I settled my deed. They made a noticeable amount of difference over my starter set and id go as far to say it helped me persevere through that initial new player grind. I didn't want to spend lots of money at the time when I was new, but I'd happily have paid him a silver or 2 for them. Some merchants really should offer cheap 50QL starter sets for noobs. It's only now I'm settled and pushing skills over 50 that I'm comfortable throwing silver at 70-80QL coc/woa upgrades.So if the question is can someone do forever with 50QL tools? Then I vote no. But if its are 50QL tools useful, then I vote yes. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 I've never really been bothered by ql of my tools. Admittedly, I've been given/traded quite high ql stuff by kind players over time so what I use tends to be pretty good, but I'm still using a 50ql unenchanted saw for example just because I've not had a better one handed to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 31, 2015 Polls without I don't care can't count as real polls. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 I personally do not sell tools ,weapons under 80ql..I leave that market for the upcoming smiths. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 The demand for higher QL tools isn't a problem, it's the result of the increased skillgain that would allow for newer players to "catch up" easier. They are, and they want high QL tools a lot sooner because of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 I started a couple years ago, so I guess I'm a vet now. My crafting skills are at least 90+ if not higher. My tools chill around 95QL. I wouldn't use 50QL tools (unless for a specific purpose like skillgain) and would hesitate to give out 50QL tools unless expressively asked for that QL. It only takes an extra couple of minutes to hit 70QL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 Depends on the item. I'd make do with a 50ql 2h huge axe and plate set if I was starting a fresh toon and only using silver/copper I found foraging.But other tools, a newbie doesn't need high quality anyway. Most times, I'd rather spend the money on a CoC cast than on quality for most tools other than hatchet/pickaxe at any skill level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 The thing is, 50ql tools are really easy to make, most tools are blacksmith and/or carpentry and its really a matter of 2 or 3 days to get it to 40ish, and at that level you can easily improve to your level +10. In the other hand, there is a few tools requiring weapon smith which is a totally different beast, so maybe there is a "market" for 50 Ql carving knives, sickles, bashing mauls, and a couple more. Maybe if you have a priest by your side you can sell some enchanted tools from 50ql and up, but as far as unenchanted tools, from my own experience right now you need to be able to make 90 or 90+ Ql. I planted my merchant back wen I reached the 80 lvl, but the sales where really low, and in the end i only recovered the 10s investment wen I started to drop 90+ Ql tools on it. Most if not all tools I ever bought from someone where either enchanted or 90+ Ql, wen I was a new player, right now I only buy weapons/shields usually enchanted, or maybe a rare tool if i can get a bargain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 I have found that even 30ql ("decent") tools on my merchant sell well - at a low price - as newbies are very keen to replace their starter kit tools and to have the tools that are not in the starter kit to begin with. Also, something I have been told is that most tools should be within 10 points of your skill level to raise skills the fastest - and, generally, I have found this to be the case. And also, generally: Low ql tool = slower timer = better skill gain, but lower consistency of producthigh ql tool = quicker timer, thus slighter less skill gain, but more consistent and higher ql of product Please do correct me if I am wrong here. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 I made a new alt on both Deliverance and Pristine when the servers opened. 50 QL tools were like gold then to my new guys, especially on Pristine where they could not be imported into it. When Pristine was connected to the other servers I finally was able to purchase and send over some good enchanted tools for more reasonable prices. Of course there is no way I would use straight 50 QL tools now. Good enchanted tools of high quality enable much faster work on my deeds, so I always purchase the best within a reasonable price range. This means I never purchase rare tools, since I don't consider their slight advantage worth the inflated hyped price. Also I find that enchants over 90 power aren't worth the price difference either in comparison to 88 to 90 range. Guess I am not one to throw money around when it is coming out of my own pocket and not acquired by in game means of various sorts. So I usually evaluate the cost vs benefit equation pretty closely. =Ayes= Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) I have found that even 30ql ("decent") tools on my merchant sell well - at a low price - as newbies are very keen to replace their starter kit tools and to have the tools that are not in the starter kit to begin with. Also, something I have been told is that most tools should be within 10 points of your skill level to raise skills the fastest - and, generally, I have found this to be the case. And also, generally: Low ql tool = slower timer = better skill gain, but lower consistency of producthigh ql tool = quicker timer, thus slighter less skill gain, but more consistent and higher ql of product Please do correct me if I am wrong here. Partially correct. You're missing an important factor: The difficulty of what you're trying to do in relation to your skill level. If your skill is too low, and the difficulty is too high - you will fail too much. If your skill is too high, and the difficulty is too low - you will succeed far beyond the 1.01 - 39.99 requirement for a tick parameters for quite a lot of skills. (Mining, Channeling, Farming, etc) The only way to truly control your gains is by changing the QL of your tool in relation to your skill, and the difficulty of what you're trying to do. You use a higher QL tool for more difficult jobs. You use a lower QL tool for easier jobs. My old mining guide goes into detail about this aspect, which is known as the "Sweet Spot". Edited August 1, 2015 by Dairuka 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 Who buys anything but rare tools anymore? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) Who buys anything but rare tools anymore? *laughs* Really? Smart players maybe? Or players who don't sell them, so they don't hype them up? so I always purchase the best within a reasonable price range. This means I never purchase rare tools, since I don't consider their slight advantage worth the inflated hyped price =Ayes= Edited August 1, 2015 by Ayes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 Pretty sure that was a joke, Ayes... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 1, 2015 Partially correct. You're missing an important factor: The difficulty of what you're trying to do in relation to your skill level. If your skill is too low, and the difficulty is too high - you will fail too much. If your skill is too high, and the difficulty is too low - you will succeed far beyond the 1.01 - 39.99 requirement for a tick parameters for quite a lot of skills. (Mining, Channeling, Farming, etc) The only way to truly control your gains is by changing the QL of your tool in relation to your skill, and the difficulty of what you're trying to do. You use a higher QL tool for more difficult jobs. You use a lower QL tool for easier jobs. My old mining guide goes into detail about this aspect, which is known as the "Sweet Spot".You gotta get around to testing slate, it's great. Personally, I stayed on slate until about 80, then hopped on silver. As I have tons of silver (9? veins) but only 1-2 gold veins and 1 marble vein, I just hit silver with my 1QL steel pick, these days. (98.5 mining)As for your mining guide, you are missing one important detail; 1QL pickaxes will allow you to get more skillgain out of a given quantity of ore, provided the vein is reasonably close to your sweet spot. If I can get 0.3 skill in an hour, mining out 800 ore out of a vein, or 0.25 skill mining out only ~500 ore, I'll take the latter because each ore is providing more skill on average, with the longer timers. Of course you could always stamina-control on your higher QL pickaxe, but that can be a pain to manage, especially when multitasking. But for those without unending supplies of ore, maximising what you have available, as long as the effort of doing so isn't overbearing, can be good. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 2, 2015 I voted what's a tool as I feel that is my right as a tool. (Though I definitely think 50ql tools have their place in the market) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 2, 2015 Wait a minute... did Ayes just quote without a name?! O_O Anyhows New players who dont know better, and havent experienced the true bliss of doing actions faster (because your tool is high ql, possibly with some woa), will probably be happy with 50ql.Most newbies we helped out in the past, we usually gave 70ql tools, because once your skills are high, the imp-time difference between 50ql and 70ql isnt big at all. I myself, cant live with anything under 80ql anymore, sure I do have my skiller hatchet/pickaxe/shovel, but I really need to be focussed to grind with those, since the timers remind me to much of my newbie years and once you reached 3s timers, its hard to accept 13s timers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) You gotta get around to testing slate, it's great. Personally, I stayed on slate until about 80, then hopped on silver. As I have tons of silver (9? veins) but only 1-2 gold veins and 1 marble vein, I just hit silver with my 1QL steel pick, these days. (98.5 mining)As for your mining guide, you are missing one important detail; 1QL pickaxes will allow you to get more skillgain out of a given quantity of ore, provided the vein is reasonably close to your sweet spot. If I can get 0.3 skill in an hour, mining out 800 ore out of a vein, or 0.25 skill mining out only ~500 ore, I'll take the latter because each ore is providing more skill on average, with the longer timers. Of course you could always stamina-control on your higher QL pickaxe, but that can be a pain to manage, especially when multitasking. But for those without unending supplies of ore, maximising what you have available, as long as the effort of doing so isn't overbearing, can be good. Unless you're 95+ Mining Skill, just don't use a 1ql pickaxe. As someone with 98.5 mining, you might notice this refers to you. Edited August 2, 2015 by Dairuka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted August 2, 2015 Wait a minute... did Ayes just quote without a name?! O_O Became infected with the incognito approach, but yes, 90+ QL tools reduce the timers nicely at higher skills, even with not optimal enchants. =Ayes= Share this post Link to post Share on other sites