Sign in to follow this  
Postinglels

Get a Dev to sit on the sidelines during a raid to see how dumb and boring it is, and from this perhaps find ways of making it less bad

Recommended Posts

It's not dumb and boring. No one cares about the actual fight, we are just anxious and very excited for the loot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All I know is every single major raid I've been on with 30+ raiders that should have flattened a small capital was derailed not by active defenders, but by 'X floor / wall / parapet / fence / trapped templar (can't dig)' etc not being able to be destroyed by some glitched mechanic.

 

So I don't have any issue with "hard", I have issues with "broken" that doesn't get fixed within reasonable timeframes.

 

As someone that would be organizing raids all the time it's these broken mechanics/glitches that make you say "what's the point? I'll wait 'till it gets fixed"  But it takes too long, and then they introduce a new feature that brings it's own set of new raid-breaking glitches.

 

 

Considering this, Sparta was a small miracle to be able to be removed without any mechanics issues.

have to agree with fogshark here. if catapulting just got fixed there would be a lot less complaints. As someone who has probably done the most or at least in the top 3 of the most catapulting on chaos.

 

issues arise from:

 

1. catapults not hitting all 4 walls of a tile

2. elevation differences with dirt blocking catapult shots.

3. bugged wall plans that can never be destroyed

4. inaccurate readings from the catapult in event (you hit building name) Instead of you hit xxx type of wall

5. catapults being abled to be fired multiple times using the same ammunition

6. and the overall finickiness that goes with aiming a catapult over long distances. (i have learned to use a spyglass which makes it easier but shouldn't be a mandatory thing for catapulting).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Send help, make the game less bad, that's the main point here. How can you minus one the idea of less badness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Send help, make the game less bad, that's the main point here. How can you minus one the idea of less badness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

3. bugged wall plans that can never be destroyed

 

I thought this was fixed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

since this has turned into chaos KvK... i guess let's talk about the actual USE of raiding mechanics on the chaos server.

 

my thought is  - we're all playing the same game.  we all have access to the same tools/mechanics/strategy.  there is no difference between kingdoms (unless you count which gods can champ up, but that has no influence on raiding)

MR has no issue with attacking deeds, and has done so successfully on a consistent basis.  has made progress across the map over the past 2-3 years and expanded land consistently.

 

JK has had issues with attacking deeds, and has not been successful.  land has been shrinking and the summer-long siege on a deed resulted in i think 1 drain? until it was repaired.

 

I can see why you want to ask devs to make changes to make it easier for you - but since we're playing the same game, why is it that we can attack deeds and you cannot?  I can see where the attitude in this thread comes from but I have to agree with Madnezz - raiding takes time and effort, and if you put in the effort you're successful.
 

 

clearly, the mechanics that exist allow a kingdom to successfully raid, otherwise MR would not have been able to.

 

 

you're asking for changes for when a deed that could take a month to build, could be deleted in one night with a group of players.

 

that's not a fun game to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point out how my suggestions cut the arms off of the defenders. Like apart from making them plan routes in like many older deeds already have? I'm highly curious about you're opinion as an avid and highly respected pvper

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe someone wants to comment on the recent addition of winching keybinds and the effect, if any, they've had in relieving some frustrations around sieging?


 


Can similar efforts be made in other areas to help with some of the tedium/frustration/boredom amplifiers when raiding?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

since this has turned into chaos KvK... i guess let's talk about the actual USE of raiding mechanics on the chaos server.

 

my thought is  - we're all playing the same game.  we all have access to the same tools/mechanics/strategy.  there is no difference between kingdoms (unless you count which gods can champ up, but that has no influence on raiding)

MR has no issue with attacking deeds, and has done so successfully on a consistent basis.  has made progress across the map over the past 2-3 years and expanded land consistently.

 

JK has had issues with attacking deeds, and has not been successful.  land has been shrinking and the summer-long siege on a deed resulted in i think 1 drain? until it was repaired.

 

I can see why you want to ask devs to make changes to make it easier for you - but since we're playing the same game, why is it that we can attack deeds and you cannot?  I can see where the attitude in this thread comes from but I have to agree with Madnezz - raiding takes time and effort, and if you put in the effort you're successful.

 

 

clearly, the mechanics that exist allow a kingdom to successfully raid, otherwise MR would not have been able to.

 

 

you're asking for changes for when a deed that could take a month to build, could be deleted in one night with a group of players.

 

that's not a fun game to play.

 

You do need to realize that the thread isn't about making it easier to raid, it's about making it more enjoyable.

 

There is nothing wrong with that, the whole goal is to encourage more people to do it.

 

I'd like it if you would refer to my previous post here.

 

 

About KvK however, please don't pride yourself on raiding anything. You either did it to noobs, or deeds so outdated and ill-maintained they didn't take advantage of the new catapult code. I noticed the war deeds I personally supervised and built or rebuilt myself have not been drained since. (And no, Avarga is not a wardeed, or wasn't intended as one anyway.) If that's not proof that its insanely easy to abuse the mechanics, and that you shouldn't pride yourself on raiding undefended and outdated deeds, i don't know what is.

 

My only question is why didn't that logic work for JK/BL with all the examples i posted in my previous post. And by logic i mean "we can do it but they cant".

Edited by Propheteer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This whole thread is nothing but people talking past each other.


 


Honestly, it should be deleted and new threads should be made that deal with specific issues ("Can't dig coz of sign", "Catapult no work good", "Minedoor 2 strong") and maybe then people can come to an agreement and actually get things sorted out.


 


Rather than sitting here and complaining about vague notions and abstract concepts until the end of time.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delete it so we can do the same thing in another thread and completely bury any useful points that this thread may have raised? I don't think so tim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the devs dont read this forum, let alone would read a 6 page thread filled with drama, so it doesnt really matter.


 


also - TIL MR didnt raid the "right deeds" while i think we've gotten a into every relevant JK deed other than Kyara, and disbanded the entire east coast of chaos.  I guess kyara was the one that was built properly.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the devs dont read this forum, let alone would read a 6 page thread filled with drama, so it doesnt really matter.

 

also - TIL MR didnt raid the "right deeds" while i think we've gotten a into every relevant JK deed other than Kyara, and disbanded the entire east coast of chaos.  I guess kyara was the one that was built properly.

 

I guess you didn't take time to notice none of the rest had any villagers, or very few and the good majority still had sloped dirtwalls, among many other things. So it's not so much the "right deeds" as you just spent infinitely less effort raiding them than it takes to raid any modern deed.

Edited by Propheteer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey want balance OK make it where it take the same time to destroy as to build

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey want balance OK make it where it take the same time to destroy as to build

 

^^^this.  is the point.

 

with an organized group of 20 players, you can do significant if not fatal damage to a deed in 1 night.

 

that deed likely took months to build.

 

it's already like 1/10th of the time to destroy a deed than it is to build it, not sure why we want to make it easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me I don't believe it should be some kind of easy mode been playing this game for years and I know it takes months on a good planned deed when your talking 100 k brix and mortar and then the time to put it together and some one comes and destroys every building and kills all the animals that took months to breed the way you want them its a hard sell to think you can come onto the forums and make a raid that takes 12 hours to do vs 2 to 3 months of building and think people are going to be OK make it easyer for me to flatten this deed in 2 hours plz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think posters should actually be able to siege before they make a post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the whole point of this thread is not to make raiding easy, but to make it fun.


There's nothing fun about exploiting game mechanics to your benefit and then telling other people they should do it too, because they can.


 


I see a lot of people twisting the words of others in this thread to make it look like the other is just whining about not being able to raid.


There are a lot of issues that need to be addressed and fixed, but to some people it doesn't concern them apparently.


 


Teleporting - This is the stupidest thing that could ever be implemented as an ability in my opinion.


Bugs with catapults - Wonder what the test server is for anyway...


Gate/Mine-hopping - This is a dumb tactic and everyone should feel bad for using it.


Those are just a few issues I have with PvP.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think posters should actually be able to siege before they make a post.

Edited by Propheteer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the interest of making this post more constructive...

 

There are some main points:

 

Should it be easier to destroy something that took a considerable amount of cumulative time to build?

Personally, I don't think so. I think it should be hard to completely tear down structures, remove dirt walls, and effectively undo hundreds of hours worth of work in a short period of time. That's not raiding though, is it? Let's define raiding then: Raiding is breaking into a deed, draining the token, and carrying off whatever loot isn't nailed down. Right?

 

Should certain things be tweaked to make it easier to get into a deed, if not destroy it? 

So with that said, should things be changed to make it easier to get into a deed? What things would need to be changed? Let's say you don't need to catapult whole buildings down, but instead you could bust through mine doors more easily with enough people. Battering rams maybe? An item that does a significant amount of damage to a door, yet requires several people to Right-click > Drag and reduces your speed, making you more vulnerable to defenders. I suppose archery would be the go-to way to counter this sort of raiding mechanic, but we do have siege shields. In this way, it would be easier to get into smaller deeds, such as war deeds, and easier to take the drain. Making battering rams take significant damage, and making them something that a group must carry around, that would make it hard to simply smash your way through into the deepest parts of a deed. 

Anything else that would make "getting the drain" easier? 

 

What could be tweaked to make raiding more enjoyable and desirable?

And for this, I'm thinking that what we get for a "drain" should be tweaked as well. Right now, the coppers you get for most deeds are an insignificant reward for raiding a deed. With the number of war deeds, each being almost completely devoid of real loot, it doesn't do much to encourage raiding. Truly, the only reason there is to raid most of these deeds is to push back a kingdom's influence. That's not nearly as gratifying as getting some sleep bonus would be, especially when you just took several hours out of your day to catapult a rather large long house and dig down a 300-slope dirt wall, twice in some cases, just to find 20c and some newbie tools on the alt that was harrying you the entire time.

 

What about changing the way we "disband" deeds?

What I've worked up to here is a thought on separating the actions of "raiding" and "disbanding" into two separate activities, but not unrelated ones. I don't think you should be able to completely drain a deed to the point of disbanding as you can now, instead it would be nice if there were some sort of intelligent code that could detect the amount of destruction on a deed. Simply put, you should be able to disband a deed if you've wiped out every structure on it, but only if it takes longer to demolish the structures than it does now. If a deed is disbanded this way, the remaining silver should be returned to the mayor of the deed. Raiding a deed would grant everyone in local from the raiding kingdom something more useful, such as sleep bonus, karma, or both. It would still drain the coffers, but only to a point before a deed is disbanded, giving the mayor a chance to come on and decide if they're going to defend it or let it die in a week.

 

What this suggestion does is make war deeds easier targets, as they're often low on the structure count. It would encourage PvP and also encourage larger deeds for holding territory. The difference being trying to disband a place like Kyara or HoM would literally take days of extreme effort to destroy all the buildings, not even counting any defenders that come to put up a fight. This also wouldn't see the end of war deeds entirely, but make them a possible hot spot for PvP. A kingdom could get several successful raids on a war deed, allowing for better morale, which would also encourage PvP.

 

Anyway, a disclaimer: I haven't had much coffee today. The ideas in this post may be complete rubbish. I'm also speaking personally, and not for my kingdom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What could be tweaked to make raiding more enjoyable and desirable?

And for this, I'm thinking that what we get for a "drain" should be tweaked as well. Right now, the coppers you get for most deeds are an insignificant reward for raiding a deed. With the number of war deeds, each being almost completely devoid of real loot, it doesn't do much to encourage raiding. Truly, the only reason there is to raid most of these deeds is to push back a kingdom's influence. That's not nearly as gratifying as getting some sleep bonus would be, especially when you just took several hours out of your day to catapult a rather large long house and dig down a 300-slope dirt wall, twice in some cases, just to find 20c and some newbie tools on the alt that was harrying you the entire time.

1 min sleep bonus per copper drained to the drainers kingdom in local. :D

oh hell yes xD

 

exploitable, nvm.

Edited by Zekezor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can people please learn the difference between tedium and difficulty before talking about them? seriously, balance is what adds difficulty to the game - when there are a number of options to choose from and choosing the right one at the right situation is vital to success


 


imbalance is where the choice is obvious (ie. SotG, 5 speed hell horse, 90ql 90 WoA gear, plate or better armor, as many priests as possible), and anything else chosen is a death sentence, thus creating arbitrary requirements that have nothing to do with the player's ability and cannot be overcome by said ability (in this case, that arbitrary requirement is time)


 


don't know why I still respond to this kind of uninformed crap #fourpointsixbillionyears #notanopinion


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this