Game Developers, Wake Up About Rare *Creation* Mechanics

[Ayes 3,715]

Something that has concerned me for a while has been the ability to create numerous Rare Items by simply creating hundreds of new items knowing that the rare roll will eventually happen, then giving a chance of creating a Rare of that particular item. This mechanic is so dependable that some players will just create new items, knowing that over time they will come up with a few Rares which then will be sold to other players.

 

Since this is a well known player tactic for creating numerous Rares over time, I find it baffling that the game Developers have done nothing to correct this situation, which I think can be easily accomplished just by removing the Rare upon creation ability. Simply stated, no Rares should be able to be made by creating new items, rather they should only become Rare by improving them.

 

Possibly the game Developers think this is no problem, that players can sit for hours just creating new items over and over again, with the intent of this dependable Rare upon creation ability. If this is so, to me it seems a poor way to implement this Rare item system, thus in turn diminishing the Rare concept of these items actually being "Rare". With this Rare upon *creation* system they are little more than production items that any player will eventually accumulate a good number of by this create and discard system.

 

Somehow this is the Developers intent as I have described this situation, or perhaps they are just unaware of the extent that this Rare upon *creation* ability is being intentionally taken advantage of? In either case, I find this a hard system to justify as being a positive one for the Rare items in game, that then belie the concept and term of *Rare*. 

 

=Ayes=

[yashua 185]

+1 I'd imagine a few people will heavily disagree

[Clatius 455]

So they will simply constantly improve items until they become rare. What's the difference?

[Proximo 402]

Not sure what exactly the problem is with the current system.  Or how it could be fixed.  If someone is willing to sit there and spam-create items, then yes, eventually the dice rolls are going to go their way.

[Griffith 362]

people 

 

make rares to sell

buy rares

collect rares

use rares for their benefits

etc

 

they are bought and sold providing a money sink

 

if they become almost unatainable then people get frustrated

and elitist flame war starts over people complaining that only

a few get the rares.

 

they shoud be atainable to everyone with some effort, and not

just random luck. (rng will bite you)

 

my gripe is that they shouldnt waste so many resources.

thats why the drumroll before finish was a good thing.

 

look at scale and hide armor. now almost impossible to make,

so the money sink from those is almost non existent.

while the few that are sold have shot up in price.

only the old players who already had dragon armor

or new players with money can get them.

you get .02 kg hide or scale from a hunt if youre lucky lol.

 

my question is, why doest it really bother so much that other people

spend  hours grinding for a rare or 2. and if more dedicated

even more rares? do you collect them? use em? sell them?

or otherwise have been hurt by them making rares?

serious question...

 

tl;dr  some people want rares, they ether buy them or make them

[KunAlt 844]

What about the tons of items you can't improve?

 

Like whetstones, sorcery staffs, doorlocks and padlocks, all raw mats, etc, etc.

[Warlander 2,730]

<personal opinion>

How about just making rare on creation and rare on improve chances equal? On the other hand, I am not sure how this change could affect supreme and fantastic items, probably some tweaks would be needed.

</personal opinion>

[Outlaw 697]

 

they are bought and sold providing a money sink

 

 It isn't a money sink though, it just moves money around. (To some 'questionable' people at times. I've known people use 10 accounts to spam create rares all at once)

 

Would be nice to have it where if you create 'x' amount of items to 'y' quality, you get a rare version.

That would stop f2p alts from spamming them and knock out the RNG factor.

It would also make it a sort of achievement to obtain a rare item. I imagine a lot less of them would be bought and sold though.

 

Also kind of too late to change to that system now though, given how many are already in the game.

 

Something like, create 500 longswords to 50 quality and you get a rare.

2500 longswords to 75ql for supreme

10k longswords to 90ql for fantastic

 

Obviously those numbers aren't to be used...just given an example.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Outlaw

[Lazzyboy 18]

mass spamming works, but you must know when and how, but also you need lots of time to do it, and tell me is it worth to spend 2 hours non-stop spamming horse shoes to sell one for few silvers, no it is'nt, even not for new players. and actually new players cant handle that you need decent skill to try on that also big amounts of good ql iron, so i dissagree, leave it as it is and dont ruin the market

[Nicrolis 980]

<personal opinion>

How about just making rare on creation and rare on improve chances equal? On the other hand, I am not sure how this change could affect supreme and fantastic items, probably some tweaks would be needed.

</personal opinion>

I agree with this. Not sure why it wasn't like this to begin with.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Nicrolis

[Yesirn 166]

<personal opinion>

How about just making rare on creation and rare on improve chances equal? On the other hand, I am not sure how this change could affect supreme and fantastic items, probably some tweaks would be needed.

</personal opinion>

Ehhh

if your talking about making creation the same as imping % yes. Otherway around no.

[JakeRivers 2,921]

If someone wants to sit there for hours watching a timer and creating pickaxes, all the power to them, as long as they not using macro's who cares.

 

Just because you don't do it, or want to do it does not mean a mechanic should be nerfed.

[Nomadikhan 2,196]

Has always and will continue to await the day that people will turn their nose up at an auction if it isn't rare...

 

(1 year later)

 

Watches players turn their nose up if the auction isn't supreme

 

(2 years furher)

 

Watches players snort about how horrible it was grinding a skill with only rare tools

[Wurmhole 3,650]

I guess we could always switch to a rare cap per prem account.  1 per month for crafted usable items, but no change on resources, like logs, dirt, shaft, etc.

[Wraithglow 787]

I don't see the problem. Anyone can do it, people who buy them know how common they are and obviously still decide it's worth paying someone else to do rather than doing it themselves. I don't see it any different to any of the other ways of making money from doing things hundreds of times. Hell, it's probably easier to make money just making mortar.

[pkerguy 69]

[rant]

I started a suggestion topic a few months ago about rarity rolls doing other stuff instead of just giving rare items, like extra exp or whatever, making rare items a bit 'rarer', no one gave a damn back then..

[/rant]

[bangzuvelis 549]

why bother doing anything? some people grind accounts, some make few rare tools, others enjoy the game. more rare items means dropping prices, leaving only those dedicated ones to keep spanning them. as well as that dropping prices will make resellers of rare items to look for business somewhere else. i would just suggest to rename "rare" to "just blue" or something, as having 5 rare picks per toon doesnt sound very rare at all.

 

p.s. i still believe that you can make more silvers by just digging the dirt rather than depending on luck.

Edited July 27, 2015 by bangzuvelis

[LouisC 74]

Always somebody trying to get things nerfed or changed. Leave the rare system alone. I haven't created a rare in a long time. I hold onto them for long periods of time. Usually the rares I get come from imping them through use. With over 98 blacksmithing I would HOPE every few months I could create a rare.. Why mess around and make things even more impossible? If those people want to spend hours doing that spam of items leave em alone and let them enjoy that concept of the game. To each their own. 

[Yamuliss 105]

Something that has concerned me for a while has been the ability to create numerous Rare Items by simply creating hundreds of new items knowing that the rare roll will eventually happen, then giving a chance of creating a Rare of that particular item. This mechanic is so dependable that some players will just create new items, knowing that over time they will come up with a few Rares which then will be sold to other players.

 

Since this is a well known player tactic for creating numerous Rares over time, I find it baffling that the game Developers have done nothing to correct this situation, which I think can be easily accomplished just by removing the Rare upon creation ability. Simply stated, no Rares should be able to be made by creating new items, rather they should only become Rare by improving them.

 

Possibly the game Developers think this is no problem, that players can sit for hours just creating new items over and over again, with the intent of this dependable Rare upon creation ability. If this is so, to me it seems a poor way to implement this Rare item system, thus in turn diminishing the Rare concept of these items actually being "Rare". With this Rare upon *creation* system they are little more than production items that any player will eventually accumulate a good number of by this create and discard system.

 

Somehow this is the Developers intent as I have described this situation, or perhaps they are just unaware of the extent that this Rare upon *creation* ability is being intentionally taken advantage of? In either case, I find this a hard system to justify as being a positive one for the Rare items in game, that then belie the concept and term of *Rare*. 

 

=Ayes=

Why make more changes to the game when the current changes made some leave the game due to them. Rather fix the ingame economy and return the game the way it was 3 years ago. Fix the behavioral problems with new player abuse and fix issues with theft which still runs rapid in some places on the game. A lot people are unhappy with a lot of recent changes made. Enclosure rule was one of the many changes people are not happy with. The silent nerfing of the traders was another. Adding other ways of ingame currency was not a good idea especially seeing how it fed off what the traders delved out. Old rule of thumb, If it aint broke don't fix it!I I  advocated for the return of dragons. It was a good idea at the time but perhaps they should be more rare with larger drops and harder to kill now that i have seen how the prices have dropped drastically sense there return! Making the scale and drops worth even more if they was harder to kill and find. Add new mobs to both PVE and PVP servers. The problem i see is the PVE servers have it to easy. So people don't want to band together. They don't want to play PVP but they want in manys ways PVP has to offer and that's fine and understandable. Make the dragon and other mobs able to attack a village. Add new mobs in play that can also attack a village. Nothing wrong with traders but truthfully i have not seen them offer any new items in them and ive played now for 3 years so add new stuff not only will this give players more to buy with ingame currency but also feed more income into the game. Make higher QL items last a lot longer then lower QL items so there is a huge difference between say a 50 QL Tool and a 90 QL Tool. Maybe that 50 QL tool is good for 500 uses but that 90 QL Tool good for 5,000 uses and a rare is unlimited. When tools repair make them go down in QL alot more pending on the QL  and Type. Need to set a difference again on affordability and luxury. You want nice your gonna pay for it! You want something to get by then so be it, it will last for so long. You want cheap then don't complain you get what you pay for or make. Simple changes would fix the ingame economy. Above all else greed was a major factor as to why so many left this game. Wurm is not a 14 Euro a month game. It just simply is not. Lower the price back down to what your prices was and you will see players return only one that can fix this is Rolf if he doesn't listen to his player base more players will leave the game and the game will go further down hill.  It's my opinion but you know what, no one has to agree just look around there a massive exodus from this game and has been for a while of players leaving the game disgruntled.

 

PS. Or we could just call it Wurmageddon and change all servers to PVP and double the strengths of MOBs and if you toon dies it's lost for all time that might get you to the end result your looking for a little faster.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Yamuliss

[KanePT 699]

The problem is that Wurm is too "basic" in most stuff.

For a challenge it depends on grind.

For progression it depends on grind.

For rare stuff, hey you guessed it.

 

Thing is Wurm works on a philosophy from back when the first MMOs were being created, and while Wurm was an awesome concept (still is, though incredibly under-achieved) back then. Its extremelt sub-par for today's standards.

But then again, the imagination and technical possibilities on the devs are limited in what wurm can do, and so creating more intricate systems is probably hard. Specially when you think most of the devs are doing this as a hobby of sorts, since they're mostly volunteer.

 

So pretty much a few things will need to happen for a proper rare system where you create that "special" weapon or tool, like you hear in tales and whatnot:

First Rolf needs to start taking less vacations and paying more people to make the game. You can't hope for any real improvements with a mostly volunteer staff.

Then that new staff has to show to Rolf that his "vision" is ancient, that the game is dated, and that a number of changes need to happen.

Then they can go about and improve the game.

Honestly, i've said this several times in chat, and i'll say it now here, Wurm would gain immensely if Notch would come around to buying it out of Rolf, and start working on it again, using the know how of making a game like Minecraft the huge success it was. Think about it, Wurm could have been minecraft.

Even if Notch just did for Wurm what he did for Age of Wonders 3 and just pump some money into it, it would be awesome, because, in all honesty we can all prattle on about what needs improving and what doesn't, but when push comes to shove Rolf has neither the man or willpower to make the in-depth changes that Wurm needs to have in order to be up-to-date.

[Brunwulf 470]

If someone wants to sit creation rares for hours then thats how they choose to play.

It's still a lot of work so why change it.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Brunwulf

[BigBadBum 69]

Let me alter your post a bit.

 

 

Something that has concerned me for a while has been the ability to create numerous Rare Items by simply imping new items knowing that the rare roll will eventually happen, then giving a chance of creating a Rare of that particular item. This mechanic is so dependable that some players will just create new items, knowing that over time they will come up with a few Rares which then will be sold to other players.

....

 

I find theres no reason to change the system as it is right now. The only theoretical problem that i see is that the servers have to handle thousands of non-rare picks. But other than that i realy cant see why creating new items is bad and imping stuff to rare is ok.

 

I myself have used both systems (spamming and imping) to earn a couple coins in the begining. They worked good for me and i find it totaly ok if other new or broke players take advantage of them.

[spellcast 983]

I too would prefer the rare chance be moved (as much as possible) to improving, for one, single, reason...  database size.

 

spending 2 hours spamming creates to get a rare, vs spending 2 hrs improving items to get a rare...  at the end, you end up with many many many fewer items when improving to get rares. 

 

every item in the database increases lag, and wurm already has a huge database on most servers. 

 

we got bulk bins and such to cut down on the number of raw mats stored in the database, and now we seem to be trying very hard to replace those shards, logs, dirts etc with horseshoes, pickaxes, and needles, (and all the other tools that people want to be rare) balance (without lowering the overall chance) the ability to get rares to be slightly in favor of imping the items that can be imped, and players will switch over to that method, reducing the number of items created and left to rot. (not everyone is motivated to use trash bins or sell the items to the tokens)

[Reylaark 1,100]

Something that has concerned me for a while has been the ability to create numerous Rare Items by simply creating hundreds of new items knowing that the rare roll will eventually happen, then giving a chance of creating a Rare of that particular item. This mechanic is so dependable that some players will just create new items, knowing that over time they will come up with a few Rares which then will be sold to other players.

 

Since this is a well known player tactic for creating numerous Rares over time, I find it baffling that the game Developers have done nothing to correct this situation, which I think can be easily accomplished just by removing the Rare upon creation ability. Simply stated, no Rares should be able to be made by creating new items, rather they should only become Rare by improving them.

 

Possibly the game Developers think this is no problem, that players can sit for hours just creating new items over and over again, with the intent of this dependable Rare upon creation ability. If this is so, to me it seems a poor way to implement this Rare item system, thus in turn diminishing the Rare concept of these items actually being "Rare". With this Rare upon *creation* system they are little more than production items that any player will eventually accumulate a good number of by this create and discard system.

 

Somehow this is the Developers intent as I have described this situation, or perhaps they are just unaware of the extent that this Rare upon *creation* ability is being intentionally taken advantage of? In either case, I find this a hard system to justify as being a positive one for the Rare items in game, that then belie the concept and term of *Rare*. 

 

=Ayes=

 

Just trying to understand...

What you don't like about it is:

• Too many rares are created, thereby making the items no longer rare.

The system uses too simple and predictable a mechanic, thereby allowing people to guarantee themselves rares rather than having it be an off-chance surprise.

Rares not being as rare as they might be... they're rare to me, I'll tell you that much    I don't buy or sell them.  I don't really care if mine is better than my neighbor's.

If it's an objection to the business-like nature of rare creation, I just don't see why anyone aside from those involved in that business would care.  I'm not seeing what the problem is 

 

A simplistic and predictable mechanic... I'm not sure you could really devise a system that isn't eventually going to be thoroughly dissected and figured out.  For some people, figuring out the patterns in any game is their fun.  Others go the magnate route and put themselves in their own little sweat-shop.  Can't say I aim for rares.  If someone else does... you can't see me right now but I'm literally shrugging.

 

But

If you told me that people creating all these extra items, knowing they never intend to use them in any way, is dragging down the server, clogging the database, or any such thing... now you have my attention 

If the people who do this can't be bothered to make a trash bin and dispose of these superfluous items properly... I say teleport them to shark infested waters, with their items 

 

TL;DR

just read what Spellcast said above me.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Reylaark

[Evilvision 301]

Honestly, i've said this several times in chat, and i'll say it now here, Wurm would gain immensely if Notch would come around to buying it out of Rolf, and start working on it again, using the know how of making a game like Minecraft the huge success it was. Think about it, Wurm could have been minecraft.

 

Some of us thank god he hasn't.