Artifact Changes Review

[Hashirama 870]

All kingdoms getting 3 artifacts > make the artifacts not needing to be recharged > king/chief gives the artifact to players like titles or office appointments.
Simple and fun for everyone.

95% of people on pvp servers never even get to hold the artifacts, this will change that for sure. Everyone will get chance to have these artifacts given by king/chief.

And they would be non-drop ofcourse.

[Redd 4,281]

Or make them useful as they were before and have them naturally change hands in PvP.

[Propheteer 7,139]

like i said in an earlier post, now that we know what was causing the issue (the fantastic crit rate change), the changes can be reverted and just lower them to like rare status and its gucci.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Propheteer

[Hashirama 870]

Just 1 group controlling them is lame, always has been. The game has such a cool feature of artifact yet only a selected few get to use them. Why not give some to each kingdom, still the ones chosen to use them will have them. And no drop artifacts will be cool as people will bring them out more often.

[aamanus 1,488]

What artifacts should kingdoms get hashirama, since you're suggesting they only get 3, and there is a pool of 12 currently.  Please be more elaborate.

[Naio 675]

i like how hashirama has gone from "they are still OP because of this data" and now that it's obvious he was lying about the data he's moved onto "every kingdom should get artifacts for free without putting in any effort"

 

keep this thread to real ideas and facts, and if you want the artifacts, work for them like everyone else in the game has.

[Nicrolis 980]

i dont think he was lying about his data. I do believe his data is right, BUT only for WU. Goblin Leader must be different in it, OR there was some other form in the code that was giving him wrong information. He did state it worked fine on the dragon, and wasn't doing tons of damage.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Nicrolis

[Naio 675]

nicrolis, if you can find a way to kill the goblin leader in 6 hits with the sword of mag, without pumping up the server CR bonus, I'll give you a cookie.

I had 90 skills in everything and 90ql everything, half the time I died before I got a hit in, and when I did hit him it did the dmg in my screenshot.

[Nicrolis 980]

nicrolis, if you can find a way to kill the goblin leader in 6 hits with the sword of mag, without pumping up the server CR bonus, I'll give you a cookie.

I had 90 skills in everything and 90ql everything, half the time I died before I got a hit in, and when I did hit him it did the dmg in my screenshot.

 

Im not saying your test was wrong either. Wurm Online(and WU) have so much code and random stuff in it, that bugs exist*. Hashi probably ran into a bug, based on how he had his server set up + the variables he used. Im agreeing with you on the fact that it doesnt equate to WO, so i'm not sure why you are trying to disprove me.

 

OR there was some other form in the code that was giving him wrong information

 

*Edit: Or even possibly he broke the equation that is used to deal damage.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Nicrolis

[Hashirama 870]

Since only MR have had access as you know being a member, what exactly do you hope to achieve from this topic?  Speaking for chaos only of course but it seems like a blatant attempt to get them rebuffed based solely on the word of a group that they are unusable now.

 

Since when did city hall threads start getting posted based on someones personal agenda?

Edited October 26, 2015 by Hashirama

[Nadroj 3,554]

It's funny how many people accuse players from MR of pushing their own agenda and therefore "making this discussion about balance into kvk" without realising that the constant unfounded accusations are YOU being the ones turning this into KvK crap. Every time one of us posts pointing out that we've got reasoned data from using the artifacts and we've found them to be crap, instead of discussing it or god forbid cooperating with each other, the first thing posted is just "i immediately call you a liar because you're MR and you just want them buffed for you". 

If one person out there could just accept that the players in MR who are posting here saying that the artifacts are really stupidly broken and useless atm are actually being honest and want them balanced out so they get actually used, i'd ****ing love them.

[Druidnature 1,118]

It's funny how many people accuse players from MR of pushing their own agenda and therefore "making this discussion about balance into kvk" without realising that the constant unfounded accusations are YOU being the ones turning this into KvK crap. Every time one of us posts pointing out that we've got reasoned data from using the artifacts and we've found them to be crap, instead of discussing it or god forbid cooperating with each other, the first thing posted is just "i immediately call you a liar because you're MR and you just want them buffed for you".

If one person out there could just accept that the players in MR who are posting here saying that the artifacts are really stupidly broken and useless atm are actually being honest and want them balanced out so they get actually used, i'd ****ing love them.

[Naio 675]

hey why don't you guys read the whole thread and look at the people on epic posting the same thing. people on epic that are our enemies on chaos agree that artifacts not worth using.

daolin/hashirama - just because your kingdoms are not strong enough to ever see or use an artifact (unless it's hitting you in the face) doesn't mean that it's ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED and one big coverup.

[Hashirama 870]

hey why don't you guys read the whole thread and look at the people on epic posting the same thing. people on epic that are our enemies on chaos agree that artifacts not worth using.

daolin/hashirama - just because your kingdoms are not strong enough to ever see or use an artifact (unless it's hitting you in the face) doesn't mean that it's ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED and one big coverup.

 

Every worthy player should get to use artifact regardless of kingdom. You are one of the many in MR that's why you are writing that. And you are the one doing kvk which your fellow kingdom mate nadroj complains about.

You can't really let others have artifacts, well if there is a cool feature in game and only 5 people that too in the same kingdom get to use it, well great job. You secured all of them and have well established deeds near altars/ or bashed altars to get them near your deed. Hats off, great work.

But like daolin earlier said, we do not know anything about what the artifacts do in the first place, and its not like devs are stupid enough that they cant even realize if an artifact is OP or not.

It is a great feature in game, among all 4 PMKs on the server, each one of them should have kingdom artifacts. Don't buff them, atleast let everyone use them in the same conditions (because WU is different than WO and what not) and then we can discuss ABOUT HOW TO FRIKKIN BALANCE THE ARTIFACTS.

You act like this suggestion takes away your artifacts. But no, it gives every kingdom some artifacts and is great for all. Then there will be talk about balance of artifacts, until then it will always stay kingdom vs kingdom arguments.

 

And because you fail to see my point, and are just driving the buff train, I can't help but -1 it and I suggest the artifacts should be nerfed even further because they are OP. When I get them, I will make a suggestion about buffing them. Until then, pls nerf, too OP.

 

It's not about having some great weaponry, but how you use it. If you are afraid to accept others to have great weaponry because others might use them better than you, then you are a coward and there's no way to balance that.

So am gonna stay out of this dumb discussion now caus you will never really understand because you do not want balance at all. Keep the nerfing->buffing->nerfing cycle going rolf. GG.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Hashirama

[Nadroj 3,554]

we'd love to dicuss balancing them, we're trying out best to discuss balancing them, sadly some annoying child is too caught up in making the whole thing be about kingdom conspiracy theories instead of having that discussion.

[PassiveMiniroll 160]

Cant we get the artifact weapons just be supreme? which isn't 50% crit chance like fantastic which is DUMB, on the non weapons fantastic isn't really anything special.

supreme is what? 20%? 15%? which seems a lot more Balanced considering the effort to keep them in play, it didn't feel like 50% to be honest though...

[Pandalet 1,848]

This thread has been lightly cleaned.  Please keep the discussion civilised and respectful, folks.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Pandalet

[MisterTeddy 284]

how about balance the core mechanics while these things are effectively removed from play, then balance them?

 

possibly just remove them since giving something more powerful to the kingdom in control creates slippery slope design which is unbalanced (that kingdom gets more powerful, gets more artis, cue snowball effect)

Edited November 6, 2015 by MisterTeddy

[Battlepaw 585]

how about balance the core mechanics while these things are effectively removed from play, then balance them?

 

possibly just remove them since giving something more powerful to the kingdom in control creates slippery slope design which is unbalanced (that kingdom gets more powerful, gets more artis, cue snowball effect)

[MisterTeddy 284]

How are you supposed to find flaws in balance if they aren't used?  The "Core Mechanics" has as much to do with some stacking, and other game mechanical issues completely unrelated to artifacts tbh, the best way to see how everything works, is to encourage them to be used.    

 

it is inherently unbalanced to give a bonus to a side that already has a significantly higher level of power than another - it creates a concept known as slippery slope design where the more powerful team is given even more power, thus allowing them to gain more and more and more power (the snowball effect, a type of stacking as you mentioned)

 

they are unbalanced now by being underpowered, but having them effectively removed from play prevents one side or another from gaining or losing an unreasonable amount of power as a result of the artifacts

 

The snowball effect only applies if there isn't ways for kingdoms to wrest control of artifacts away from each other.   Currently there are ways for kingdoms to do so, and have done so in the past.

 

and most / all of these ways are usually executed against lone / small groups of artifact holders to minimize risk - before the artifacts were nerfed, they almost never changed hands in an otherwise even fight because the side that had more artifacts was significantly stronger because of the artifacts, thus allowing them to gain any other artifacts in play (again, snowball effect / slippery 

 

 

 I'm all for adding more ways but sure as hell don't support random lottery crap where you don't have to work to get them, if they just happen to despawn every month and you wait to it lands near you.    That's just petty pandering, and it's disgusting in an open sandbox where your own choices should affect the outcome as much as possible.    

 

if you honestly believe this, then you wouldn't be against balance changes (such as meditation, priests, etc.) that would allow more viable options by balancing the most powerful against the less powerful

 

stacking as many buffs as possible isn't a choice, it's the best  and only way to win, and you're a scrub if you don't do it (and you will lose to anyone who does)

 

as it stands now, there are next to no choices because the balance of this game is so bad that the PvP gameplay is formulaic -  (number of SotG + stacked buffs + priests + hell horses + rare / supreme / fantastic gear + moon metal + ... ) vs. that of your enemy, whoever has more wins - this is what Proph means when he says he can line up two armies and tell you who will win, it's not even because he knows the game better than most of us, it's that it really is that glaringly obvious

 

my point about the core mechanics is that things like weapons, shields, archery, armor, etc. build the foundation of PvP, and they need to be balanced first or else PvP is on an unstable foundation and nothing else matters

 

balance the core mechanics, then branch out

[Battlepaw 585]

my point about the core mechanics is that things like weapons, shields, archery, armor, etc. build the foundation of PvP, and they need to be balanced first or else PvP is on an unstable foundation and nothing else matters

 

balance the core mechanics, then branch out

 

You have yet to even mention that the artifacts have indeed changed hands,   several times.  In fact, MR lost almost all the artifacts, then later gained them back.  It was hard work but not unattainable.   Balancing the core mechanics until you deem the artifacts worthy of use is silly, and who knows how long that will take.    

 

The facts are the mechanics within the game have been used to exchange artifacts, you don't need to kill an artifact holder.  It does not take a crap ton of players to bash an altar.   If people wouldn't have cried to mommy because we've fortified the WL it would  a bit easier, but meh, it's still possible to do that in an attempt to prevent recharges.   

 

The fact is that, there is no "Snowball" effect. There are only people who act and those that sit on their rumps and try to change things in their favor through endless forum warfare.   The system works, and has been worked to the advantage of whatever side has chosen to act with it.    Unless you want to say that history is wrong, that you can't get artifacts out of Kyara.  I used to think the same, until that is we did so by blowing up the lights.     

 

The slippery slope argument is completely invalid if there is an end to the slope whenever a group decides to try and make a fight for it.  I'm all for encouraging that to be easier, but not to the point of freebies for doing nothing.   

Edited November 7, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Propheteer 7,139]

The fact is that, there is no "Snowball" effect. There are only people who act and those that sit on their rumps and try to change things in their favor through endless forum warfare.   The system works, and has been worked to the advantage of whatever side has chosen to act with it.    Unless you want to say that history is wrong, that you can't get artifacts out of Kyara.  I used to think the same, until that is we did so by blowing up the lights.     

 

 

so what you're saying is that a guy with 20 body sotg plate and an artifact is just as strong as a guy with 70 body sotg and an artifact scale and valrei items? and that a kingdom doesn't get stronger the more people with SOTG/scale/more people?

 

the snowball effect is very prominent and its not really related to artifacts as much as it is damage reduction, but its something you can't deny.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Propheteer

[Nicrolis 980]

>body

 

body skill does nothing... body str on the other hand...

Edited November 9, 2015 by Nicrolis

[Redd 4,281]

Bump...

 

Can something be done about these so they can be useful again..?

[MisterTeddy 284]

can the core mechanics (ie. armor, weapons, archery) be balanced before branching out to special items that are only available to one person / faction at a given time?