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Docterchese

General Balance Discussion

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WOGIC:

Allow containers to be loaded into carts, wagons, and ships even when there are items inside of the containers. As it is right now you have to empty the container of all items, load the container into the cart/wagon/ship, and then put the items back into the container. An example of this is coffins where you can put items inside the coffin while it's inside a wagon but you can't load a coffin that has items in it.

 

Basically, if you can put items into a container while it's inside a cart/wagon/ship/etc. then it should be able to be loaded with items already inside of it.

Crates, the most recent mass storage container CAN be loaded while containing items, so that's why I have tons of crates and just use them and rafts, problem solved! Though yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to empty non-bsb containers first. 

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WOGIC:

Allow containers to be loaded into carts, wagons, and ships even when there are items inside of the containers. As it is right now you have to empty the container of all items, load the container into the cart/wagon/ship, and then put the items back into the container. An example of this is coffins where you can put items inside the coffin while it's inside a wagon but you can't load a coffin that has items in it.

 

Basically, if you can put items into a container while it's inside a cart/wagon/ship/etc. then it should be able to be loaded with items already inside of it.

Crates, the most recent mass storage container CAN be loaded while containing items, so that's why I have tons of crates and just use them and rafts, problem solved! Though yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to empty non-bsb containers first. 

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WOGIC:

Allow containers to be loaded into carts, wagons, and ships even when there are items inside of the containers. As it is right now you have to empty the container of all items, load the container into the cart/wagon/ship, and then put the items back into the container. An example of this is coffins where you can put items inside the coffin while it's inside a wagon but you can't load a coffin that has items in it.

 

Basically, if you can put items into a container while it's inside a cart/wagon/ship/etc. then it should be able to be loaded with items already inside of it.

Crates, the most recent mass storage container CAN be loaded while containing items, so that's why I have tons of crates and just use them and rafts, problem solved for me... Though yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to empty non-bsb containers first. 

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WOGIC:

Allow containers to be loaded into carts, wagons, and ships even when there are items inside of the containers. As it is right now you have to empty the container of all items, load the container into the cart/wagon/ship, and then put the items back into the container. An example of this is coffins where you can put items inside the coffin while it's inside a wagon but you can't load a coffin that has items in it.

 

Basically, if you can put items into a container while it's inside a cart/wagon/ship/etc. then it should be able to be loaded with items already inside of it.

Crates, the most recent mass storage container CAN be loaded while containing items, so that's why I have tons of crates and just use them and rafts, problem solved for me... Though yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to empty non-bsb containers first. 

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Alphabetize all sub context menu's. This includes spells and crafting. The craft menu has proven that the order randomization is not needed. Further, the whole purpose for this convoluted approach was to stop bots. It should be well known by now this measure is ineffective. The basic fact is bots can find any pixel pattern anywhere on the screen in factions of a second so it doesn't matter where the game randomly puts them. All your doing Wurm is making things more tedious for non-botting players.


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That old chestnut of trying to compare a 3 week grind level 7 hate ability to the much longer level 11 insanity, of course its a little better but so it should be, they are balanced enough for the time and skill difference that if you don't want to bother getting 70 med you can have a timed ability that is pretty good to counter it. In the end what does it matter when you have 20 people hitting you, sotg wont save you.
 
*Edit: Oh if we want balance how about fixing some of this -

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/124341-remove-gender-specific-spells-or-add-option-to-pick/
http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/117739-please-remove-the-characteristic-nerf-on-priests/

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allow us to choose render distance for things inside of houses.


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Armor. 

 

Not going to get into a huge long thing of details or ideas, but need to either make cloth, leather, chain etc. viable for some reason other than weight and the archery/casting debuff, or look at removing them, or something.  There's not enough incentive to use them in 99% of cases making all of that largely wasted items/skills/etc. in the database.  Make it useful and viable for more than just movement speed and the archery/spellcasting debuff (which was and remains controversial to begin with), there has to be a way to make it really usable and incentivized for priests to use cloth, archers/ranger type playstyle to use leather, etc. but not such that they're guaranteed to die in 2 hits in PVP...maybe resists that are higher on cloth, and scaled less and less, with nothing on plate?  Something.  I am sure people have good ideas without me writing a novel here.

 

This... armor and weapon choice should go hand-in-hand. Someone who fancies themselves as a knight shouldn't have to strip half naked just to walk around. Instead they should be able to train in some way to be able to move more swiftly with the armor. I mean isn't that how it would work IRL? Weapon choice as well. All weapons should be viable when you train up the right skills. Right now I don't think that's the case, especially in PvP. Longsword and Large metal shield is pretty much it.

 

All neutral animals should be allowed to swim (sheep, bison, cattle..etc) 

 

Edit: If you have to keep them out of the water when they are wondering around then just make them able to swim when they are being lead if not lead then they do not swim like always.  

 

Why not the ability to create "cages" or some other animal-safe crate, and be able to crate animals? It's been suggested many times before. Even if you don't want them to leave the server, that can be coded in as well. Or hell, give us a special ship that's designed to load animals. Anything is better than watching your favorite mount struggle for air while you're sailing...

 

It would be nice if Clay could be addressed in some way.  It is a vital resource but at the same time it is a major nuance.  It constantly  blocks waterways and roads and there is no way to remove it, create it, or even lower it to a level for large boats to move over.  

 

So please, a spell or item to create/destroy it or even better, just make it like moss.  

 

Clay does need help. It makes no logical sense that they are immortal as they are. Why not have natural clay, as we do now, and then clay that can be made? Dirt + water in a bucket. Or use a big enough barrel of water to turn a dirt tile into a "clay pit". You could even make it "dry out" eventually, requiring the player to keep the tile active or it will return to dirt. Keep the natural clay as it is, so that digging doesn't lower it, but also make it so you can remove it through some process if you so choose. Floor boards are horrible, but could work. 

 

That reminds me... why are floor boards still 20 planks? A wooden floor is only 10 now. Seems to me that the floor of a house would be *more* materials than just nailing some boards together.

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Please make it so lanterns and lamps take no damage while on merchants.


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My suggestion is to stop direct emails to the developers to spur change requests which have the potential to be biased.

Follow the suggestion board, no responses from developers unless publically posted on the forums

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Let there be at least one passenger in the wagons.


 


Bashing stumps takes too long; it's a benefit to the look and item load of the server, why does it have to be a punishment.


 


Let us bury corpses anywhere. If it's on stone, pretend we covered it up with branches and leaves. Why do we have to wait for a ticker to run out just to find out the dirt is too shallow. What good is corpses laying around?


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Allow us to store waterskins in backpacks.


Edited by Cecci
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*Tried to make a list and remove doubles, hope i didn't miss anyones* - Will reply on this topic again with a updated version of replies after this post tonight.

 

BUG:

 

1) Player positioning de-sync, high memory usage/leak in large scale PVP (And PVE unique hunts/impalongs) 

 

WOGIC:

 

2) Fishing rods being mailable +1

3) We need to be able to pick up empty crates like bsbs, and drop them into boats/carts/wagons as well

4) We need to be able to drag directly from container to container (example: dragging a stack of crates from my knarr to my wagon so it doesn't take an hour to move all the crates in a knarr)

5) Edit:  Also need some better solution for loading into larger boats, but dragging crates semi-fixes the issue for crates at least

6) Re-calibrate the way boat holds work.  The recent boat changes were great in regards to looks and collisions but you can't access the hold unless you are very close to the commander spot.  Larger boats, like the caravel, are almost impossible to load by yourself because you can't target a crate that is close enough to be loaded.

7) The ability to move bulk items between crates and BsBs etc in one go, instead of click-drag-enter over and over again. 

8) a hull plank will not fit into a sailing boat

9) a tall kingdom banner won't fit into anything at all

10) Wooden Beams do not go into a bsb or crate.

11) You can use misalliance bladed things to butcher(at lower ql) but you can not use anything but a sickle to sprout.

12) Either the loading distance or position to load needs to be examined more closely.  It does not seem intuitive and is even more difficult than the already cumbersome process prior on larger boats like corbitas, cogs, and caravels.  crate loading is sometimes not possible or a very long process of guess work to figure out how t successfully load currently.

13) when u place steel in backpacks its diffrent everytime and i mean u can hold X amount of iron in a back pack > than X steel but steel weighs less (Same volume?)

14) All neutral animals should be allowed to swim (sheep, bison, cattle..etc) Edit: If you have to keep them out of the water when they are wondering around then just make them able to swim when they are being lead if not lead then they do not swim like always.  

15) Storing of Fish into FSB while you can keep meat forever

16) a single cauldron won't fit in an oven. 8 Cauldrons will fit in a forge plus 13 pumpkins. Thus, the forge's internal volume is 525. 94 fry pans fit in an oven so its internal volume is 188. So how is it that a 64 volume item won't fit in a container that has 188 space available?

17) 64 combined lumps won't fit in a cauldron yet 64 individual ones will. I believe combined wemp suffers from a similar problem. For some reason combining things creates a new item that is larger then the sum of its parts.

18) Keybind "drop_pile".

19) Rethink the choice of making forges so big that they won't fit in a large cart.

20) Ability to push or pull any kind of altar (well not the Altar of three and the like on Chaos) so we can move them around.

21) Boat opening range has been made smaller aswell.. should be able to open the boat from at least 1 extra tile compared to what it is not. For sailboats its pretty horrible aswell.. i thought it was fixed at some point but now the problem is back with new boat models?

22) Food. a 1ql meal  you can eat like 2.5kgs of. This shouldnt work like that.

23) surely you mean shouldn't be heavier? My RL fishing rod is 10 feet long, they get a fair bit longer than that, but weighs maybe 1/4 of what my shovels do.

24) Back a couple years ago, the running depths of boats was changed.Ever since then my big boats cannot enter my port because the rock is too shallow.Could you increase the depth we can lower rock with a pick to the deepest running boat?

25) Make kelp within our reach. Even if it is in ankle deep water, it's beyond our reach. It is (was) a cooking reagent

26) Have digging work like mining. The dirt piles onto the ground instead of into your hands.

27) You can't eat or drink on a moving vehicle because you become "too far away" from the food in your hand.These could be only the driver? I always drive the boat so this is my experience.

28) You can't repair an item inside a moving vehicle for the same reason.These could be only the driver? I always drive the boat so this is my experience.

29) you can craft while driving a vehicule but you can't use yoyos, allow yoyoing on a boat!

30) You can butcher things in your inventory on a cart that's moving, but you can't butcher something that's in the cart. Not a big deal, but one of those weird wogic things. What you can and can't do based on "you're too far away" is a bit on the illogical side and impacts crafting while traveling weirdly. 

31) Find a way to level the playing field when it comes to windows of opportunity. Oh, and also stop being such a tool when it comes to people obviously exploiting and getting away with it.

32) Allow all clothing items to be made of wool

33) better detailed patch notes and more info on game mechanics....

34) enlightening someone with high enough meditation shouldnt  be as difficult as it is over level 7

35) Crates, the most recent mass storage container CAN be loaded while containing items, so that's why I have tons of crates and just use them and rafts, problem solved! Though yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to empty non-bsb containers first. 

36) Alphabetize all sub context menu's. This includes spells and crafting. The craft menu has proven that the order randomization is not needed. Further, the whole purpose for this convoluted approach was to stop bots. It should be well known by now this measure is ineffective. The basic fact is bots can find any pixel pattern anywhere on the screen in factions of a second so it doesn't matter where the game randomly puts them. All your doing Wurm is making things more tedious for non-botting players.



39) Allow us to pick sprouts from a horse or cart.

40) allow us to choose render distance for things inside of houses.

41) My suggestion is to stop direct emails to the developers to spur change requests which have the potential to be biased.

42) Let there be at least one passenger in the wagons.

43) Let us bury corpses anywhere. If it's on stone, pretend we covered it up with branches and leaves. Why do we have to wait for a ticker to run out just to find out the dirt is too shallow. What good is corpses laying around?

 

Matter of opinion:

 

44) Large crates holding based upon volume like BSBs not just count=300 (i think most people like this for storing logs or shards etc, while for transferring smaller items it is less rewarding, being able to put BSBs in ships and put stuff in them would fix that problem)

45) Balance NahjOP (bit late to nerf this now, many ppl like it the way it is)

46) If you can pick it up and put it in your inventory, the spirits ought to be able to mail it, period. (Maybe not for bsbs.., but tools/weapons yeah?)

47) Also, lets encourage trade and mail by dropping the fees charged.  Flat rate postage - 1c per item anywhere, anytime.  Let's compete with UPS!

48) Pelt should not be any larger then a mallet or hammer. imo. all existent pelts should be standardized in size and then added back as a bulk item

49) water used as an imping tools acts really strange with blacksmithing. Its enchants don't work and it seems as if its not acting like a 100 ql tool

50) SOTG

51) It would be nice if Clay could be addressed in some way.  It is a vital resource but at the same time it is a major nuance.  It constantly  blocks waterways and roads and there is no way to remove it, create it, or even lower it to a level for large boats to move over

52) Meditating - more benefits

53) Skillgain of characteristics as priest, see topic in suggestion post about this.

54) -Because the game is so old now, one huge imbalance is the new vs old player. (get ready to flame) After 10 years, there is no stone left unturned in significant skill gain milestones, for any new player to achieve, unless they want to be the first to hit 99 milking.  Most traditional games will do the level cap bump every 1-3 years.  I suggest we do the same here, making 150 the new bar and reset skill gain difficulty to where 149-150 is the same difficulty as 99-100 is now.  Making 99-100 about as difficult as 69-70 is now.  Now there is a chance for someone new to wurm to power level/grind to new heights, new titles.  It won't be easy, but at least they can have those goals.  Right now, new players think "gee, if I work my a$$ off for 3 years, I can be almost as good as everyone else... " -

55) Grind. Grind was THE thing 10 years ago. It isn't anymore. The game needs more fun inbetween the milestone achievements. It makes no sense to spend an entire afternoon just making the materials for the house you want, when you should be making THE HOUSE!

56) Rules. Make them clear, make them objective. If you need mods, and GMs to enforce them, then they can't act like machines, if their purpose was to blindly read the text and act on the strict text, then you don't need people, just code the rules in the game.

57) Priests. Priests are awesome and whatnot, but there's little to no incentive for a new player to flat out start a priest. Playing a priest as a main is pretty much imossible. Playing a priest main on a so low pop game as wurm as a new player is damn right impossible. Its near madness to try and get a friend in this purposedly left out niche (that's not so niche anymore) game. Wurm is too player unfriendly. Add progression on the priest that unlocks more skills for them to do as they gain more faith. Also unlock "default" skills like carpentry, masonry and such, as to allow priests to HAVE A HOUSE!

58) Add progression. Raising skills need not be the only kind of progression. Add more intricate craft systems that create better items if you combine stuff from different crafts. For example, have a method that if you add a leather strip to a handle, the handle gives bonus stats on the sword. Its better than the obsolete insane grind for skills. Give meaning to the title milestones, unlock stuff when people get there. Add Horizontal progression after making it easier to get to 100 skill.

59) Allow new players to catch up, and allow old ones to stay engaged and "ahead" without having to add more years of grind by raising a level cap.

60) Make combat stats visible, add a small window with combat speed, parry rate, damage, etc to the character window. So people can ACTUALLY make a informed decision on what their weapon does.

61) Combat system needs complete overhaul. This game's combat system is 20 years old, not 10.


63) Similar functions for surface mining as there are for digging. Keep the timer longer, however. It is rock after all.


Edited by whykillme
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Let there be at least one passenger in the wagons.

 

Bashing stumps takes too long; it's a benefit to the look and item load of the server, why does it have to be a punishment.

 

Let us bury corpses anywhere. If it's on stone, pretend we covered it up with branches and leaves. Why do we have to wait for a ticker to run out just to find out the dirt is too shallow. What good is corpses laying around?

 

Dig near there? It will take the stump away ;)

 

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massive fps drop in populated areas - give the option to further decrease view distance for items in buildings.


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Whykillme, if you're going to make a master list of the suggestions made up to this point then you'll need to check over your list again and make edits. You've missed some comments made by some (including myself) and made some copy/paste errors. Just as an example, #23 and #35 under "wogic" are not really suggestions at all and makes the list look like a rush job.


 


The list is a good idea but it could use a little refining is all.


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Traders need some balancing. Heck, they need some reworking entirely I think, but at the very least they need some attention to make them worth the 50s price. I've seen a few trader deeds go for 20s with silver in their coffers just because Traders aren't as attractive as they were before.


 


I am not saying they should just give away free silver.


 


I'm saying that they need a better purpose. Some sort of reason for existing. They need better management, and at the very least the ability to pick up and place down somewhere else - even if that requires an additional fee of some sort. That way people who already invested their 50s (which translates into 50 euro) aren't entirely out of luck.


 


Considering that you can make decent silver on junk sales and rare rolls on fighting and foraging, paying in 50 euro doesn't seem worthwhile anymore.


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Bashing stumps takes too long; it's a benefit to the look and item load of the server, why does it have to be a punishment.

I agree. much faster to just pack the ground and that removes the stump.

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Spawn rates! That's what I was trying to remember. Animal spawn rates are all over the place. There has to be a better way to handle them.


 


It's been observed that if someone kills many animals in a certain area of a server, that eventually those animals respawn elsewhere. It sounds like there's a shared pool of creatures that can spawn, and due to inactivity elsewhere, the spawns end up shifting to a less-hunted area or into mines. 


 


Possible solution would be to break the servers up into spawn regions or zones. Have the respawns happen within their own region. I also swore I could remember a time when creatures "died off" eventually. Does that still happen? If not, it really should. Other things that would help would be to place checks on climbing and swimming (the latter already suggested here). While we're at it, why not put traps in that work on animals? If not kill them, then traps that will bind them to a tile for a certain amount of time. Combat could break the effect, or have a chance to. Tamed/lead animals wouldn't be affected.


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*Tried to make a list and remove doubles, hope i didn't miss anyones* - Will reply on this topic again with a updated version of replies after this post tonight.

 

BUG:

 

1) Player positioning de-sync, high memory usage/leak in large scale PVP (And PVE unique hunts/impalongs) 

 

WOGIC:

 

...

 

 

This list is going to bias interpretations of player concerns. A list is nice but we shouldn't try to categorize things. The difference between Wogic and opinion is often nothing more then a Dev's opinion. I see various # that don't fit well. I could talk about them but i"m not going to because it like I said it potentially biases things.

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Dig near there? It will take the stump away ;)

 

Priest!

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4. A strange "other" metric that seems to related the actual physical size of things. I'm not talking about volume. A good example is a plank, its volume leads one to believe it should fit in more containers then it does. I think there is another measurement metric and this explains why a lot of containers and items won't fit when it seems they should...fish poles, planks, cauldrons, logs, shafts.

Well physical size is the reason things don't fit in many cases, it can fail because an item is too tall or wide.

Of course if it was in real life you might have been tempted to play an advanced game of tetris by flipping said items over on the side, that is not done in Wurm, except when using the load action to load onto boats. 

 

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Speaking of... there was a time fishing poles fit in the polearms rack; though, unfortunately that was deemed a bug iirc.

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