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General Balance Discussion

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This site has been up for a while, though don't know how many people know about it:

https://wurmonline.uservoice.com/forums/12046-wurmonline

 

Edit: It's about suggestions for things to be added to the game, but could utilize something like that for seeing what ideas on balance/etc. seem to be widely supported.

Edited by Fireflyb
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I can drag my empty knarr in the water, but add 1 thing, basically anything, and i can't drag it anymore.  how about making the ratio of the weight ( like how you can drag a cart behind you till it weighs to much ) a lot higher so that we can just spend 2 minutes dragging a boat into and out of an entrance to a canal instead of spending 20 minutes pushing and pulling.

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-Fishing pole shouldn't be any larger then a pickaxe/shovel.


-Pelt should not be any larger then a mallet or hammer. imo. all existent pelts should be standardized in size and then added back as a bulk item.


-a single cauldron won't fit in an oven. 8 Cauldrons will fit in a forge plus 13 pumpkins. Thus, the forge's internal volume is 525. 94 fry pans fit in an oven so its internal volume is 188. So how is it that a 64 volume item won't fit in a container that has 188 space available?


 


-64 combined lumps won't fit in a cauldron yet 64 individual ones will. I believe combined wemp suffers from a similar problem. For some reason combining things creates a new item that is larger then the sum of its parts.


-water used as an imping tools acts really strange with blacksmithing. Its enchants don't work and it seems as if its not acting like a 100 ql tool.


- Keybind "drop_pile".


- Rethink the choice of making forges so big that they won't fit in a large cart.


- Increase the range which one can load and unload items to 2 or 3 tiles.


- Ability to push or pull any kind of altar (well not the Altar of three and the like on Chaos) so we can move them around.


- merchants on top of merchants in multistory builds, appealingly this doesn't work.


- MAKE IT EASY TO DRIVE A VEHICLE (CART/WAGON) PARALLEL WITH A ROAD!


 


Wurm, how about you explain the "what fits where" system? I believe there are a bunch of different metrics that related to this.


 


1. Volume as shown in the bsb.


2. 100 item count max per container.


3. weight which affects what players can carry or drag.


4. A strange "other" metric that seems to related the actual physical size of things. I'm not talking about volume. A good example is a plank, its volume leads one to believe it should fit in more containers then it does. I think there is another measurement metric and this explains why a lot of containers and items won't fit when it seems they should...fish poles, planks, cauldrons, logs, shafts.


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Boat opening range has been made smaller aswell.. should be able to open the boat from at least 1 extra tile compared to what it is not. For sailboats its pretty horrible aswell.. i thought it was fixed at some point but now the problem is back with new boat models?


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What Zol said


 


+


 


Meditation.


 


There's a reason people with money who want to PvP only want SOTG accounts, near SOTG accounts, or switch good accounts to SOTG.


 


There's a reason its the most popular path on all PvP servers.


 


It's overpowered, plain and simple.


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Kinda balance and kinda not... being able to stow fish or some form of prepared fish.

Otherwise, the whole volume issues with tall banners, fishing poles, and etc as already mentioned.

Also as mentioned certain building materials don't fit in bins: wooden beams, slabs, etc. In the past. it wasn't really an issue as these items were not used as much even in small quantities. Now its an entirely different matter.

Edited by Klaa
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It would be nice if Clay could be addressed in some way.  It is a vital resource but at the same time it is a major nuance.  It constantly  blocks waterways and roads and there is no way to remove it, create it, or even lower it to a level for large boats to move over.  


 


So please, a spell or item to create/destroy it or even better, just make it like moss.  


Edited by Vern
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Some way of putting fish in bulk storage please. The limitation made sense when food was more difficult to come by, now it's trivial. We've all got thousands of meat in storage bins, let me fish! I like fishing.

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What Zol said

 

+

 

Meditation.

 

There's a reason people with money who want to PvP only want SOTG accounts, near SOTG accounts, or switch good accounts to SOTG.

 

There's a reason its the most popular path on all PvP servers.

 

It's overpowered, plain and simple.

 

Meditation needs to be looked at in terms of balance vs. novelty vs. w/e else blabla

 

It'd make more sense for meditation paths to be balanced not by just reducing values of current bonuses, but by coming up with new ones (or tweaking current ones.)

 

An ideal balance (IMO) would provide meditation bonuses with "cool/useful features" that represent the path itself in some witty way (for the novelty crowd) yet also are balanced for PvP.  

 

Sweeping damage reductions like Insanity are just too gamey, and don't involve any thought or strategy to use; it's just a passive resistance buff...

 

A random example I just thought of for Insanity would be changing the passive damage reduction + slowed passive healing to taking less damage but doing less damage (like defensive mode) or swinging your weapon faster with reduced accuracy.  I mean, there's tons of possibilities (and people have suggested lots of things in other threads about this i'm sure.)

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SOTG is an insane bonus far beyoned anything else and in general meditation takes too long.


Fix it.


 


By the way, it's not a mystery. Everyone uses pre-picked answers on a wiki and its just a matter of wasting your time for X months doing those daily meditations and waiting X months for insanity questions to get sotg so they are more viable in pvp encounters.


Why was god-tier bonuses implemented on a longterm skill? everything else in the game works the opposite way... Normally you get rather large bonuses really fast and then things slow down and you gain tiny increments by the end. Why is meditation the complete opposite?


Heck on epic (ya know, that server that is supposed to be easier to get into pvp/skills faster) the effective curve actually makes meditation SLOWER.


Some great mind sat down and thought: "Hey, the curve (which was implemented for a reason) shouldn't be applied to meditation (a super important skill), It will be based on real skill. But lets keep SKILLGAIN based on the curve... so people level slow as if they were 90 while actually being merely 70! What a great idea!"


 


I don't really know whats up with devs sometimes... If you want epic to be about getting into pvp easier etc, then make it so. Don't randomly exclude skills becouse you "feel like it". Get a plan and stick to it.


and once again... Why the heck is a double hitpoints buff by the far end of this super slow skill when its so important for pvp?!


 


oh right.


Ya know those position bugged ships in pvp and those lovely memory leaks that still excist for some stupid reason... Most devs consider it top priority to fix that sort of things... but here in wurm they are treated as if they dont matter.


Edited by Zekezor
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Food.


a 1ql meal  you can eat like 2.5kgs of. This shouldnt work like that.


 


SOTG is insane.

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70% of these comments are about bugs & mechanics that need updating.  All great posts though, but not much about BALANCE.


 


- Nahjo is overpowered.


- Priests are too heavily penalized in skill gain after priesting.


- I think each priest should have it's own deity specific spells and then all priests should have a common set of useful, non game changing spells: minor heal, courier, dirt, light token, etc.  Deity specif spells: CoC, Strongwall, Genesis, mass heal, etc.


- Optional route for priests is to set spell classes or trees and let players choose when they priest and raise faith.  Dump deities in the toilet.


 


Because the game is so old now, one huge imbalance is the new vs old player. (get ready to flame) After 10 years, there is no stone left unturned in significant skill gain milestones, for any new player to achieve, unless they want to be the first to hit 99 milking.  Most traditional games will do the level cap bump every 1-3 years.  I suggest we do the same here, making 150 the new bar and reset skill gain difficulty to where 149-150 is the same difficulty as 99-100 is now.  Making 99-100 about as difficult as 69-70 is now.  Now there is a chance for someone new to wurm to power level/grind to new heights, new titles.  It won't be easy, but at least they can have those goals.  Right now, new players think "gee, if I work my a$$ off for 3 years, I can be almost as good as everyone else... " 


 


Old players will still have a huge advantage in "jack of all trades" accumulated skills, but no longer sitting pretty at the top of the food chain.  In addition, you now give old players something to work towards.  A new goal, rather than forcing them to skill up milking, because their favorite skill is near max.


 


Let F2P players do more... much more.  Let them ride, sail big ships, hit 50.  Give them a chance to get totally addicted to wurm, before forcing them to pay up.  F2P vs P2P is very unbalanced right now.  Everyone feels lame when F2P and most quit.  That hurts everyone.


 


Ok, enough for now.  Thank you for this thread!!

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Most of you who are complaining about SOTG just want other paths to have pvp related powers too.


You fail to see the whole picture and other paths have just as much use.


Knowledge is very good for crafting alts or dedicated crafters.


Love is good for people who like Farming, breeding etc.


 


TLDR: If you want to PvP pick insanity, power or hate and if you want to craft,w/e pick something else.

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Talk about balance?


 


Nahjo is OP? Yes it might be, or might not be, but if they decide to start modifying the spell list now it will have some insanely ugly repercussions (from all the people that are already close to 100 and everyone on their way to priest). Remember, changing something in the middle has had some very bad consequences along wurms history (remember allowing PVP on JKH?)


 


Moreover, if they would change Nahjo for being op on the fly, then by all means, allow mind speed to be gained through yoyos and bring back monster gains in shield bashing while you are at it (and more, can't think of more now but I am sure there are far more examples)


 


No, I do not believe there is a big problem with that religion specifically (and yes I do have a nahjo priest)


 


I believe a full overhaul of the enchanting system is in order (don't ask me how, it is just NOT right that someone that just hit 50 faith has even a remote chance to land a 100 cast as someone that spent years grinding chan and SD)


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At least Lib priests couldn't also farm their own veggies.

They also had to be on chaos, which is a large barrier to entry for a lot of freedomers.

 

But yeah, like you said, a bit late now.

A couple months isn't late. Its NEVER late to balance stuff.

If its op, needs balance, simple.

 

My (will never be adressed in a thousand years) input:

1) Grind. Grind was THE thing 10 years ago. It isn't anymore. The game needs more fun inbetween the milestone achievements. It makes no sense to spend an entire afternoon just making the materials for the house you want, when you should be making THE HOUSE!

 

2) Rules. Make them clear, make them objective. If you need mods, and GMs to enforce them, then they can't act like machines, if their purpose was to blindly read the text and act on the strict text, then you don't need people, just code the rules in the game.

 

3) Priests. Priests are awesome and whatnot, but there's little to no incentive for a new player to flat out start a priest. Playing a priest as a main is pretty much imossible. Playing a priest main on a so low pop game as wurm as a new player is damn right impossible. Its near madness to try and get a friend in this purposedly left out niche (that's not so niche anymore) game. Wurm is too player unfriendly. Add progression on the priest that unlocks more skills for them to do as they gain more faith. Also unlock "default" skills like carpentry, masonry and such, as to allow priests to HAVE A HOUSE!

 

4) Add progression. Raising skills need not be the only kind of progression. Add more intricate craft systems that create better items if you combine stuff from different crafts. For example, have a method that if you add a leather strip to a handle, the handle gives bonus stats on the sword. Its better than the obsolete insane grind for skills. Give meaning to the title milestones, unlock stuff when people get there. Add Horizontal progression after making it easier to get to 100 skill.

Allow new players to catch up, and allow old ones to stay engaged and "ahead" without having to add more years of grind by raising a level cap.

 

5) Make combat stats visible, add a small window with combat speed, parry rate, damage, etc to the character window. So people can ACTUALLY make a informed decision on what their weapon does.

 

6) Combat system needs complete overhaul. This game's combat system is 20 years old, not 10.

 

I could go on. And on.

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I'm back...


 


Regarding the request to list wogic and quirks, all in one thread, I just want to ask:  What has been happening to all our suggestions and server bug reports on the quirks and wogic that needs fixing?  Are you just asking the community to comb through those sub forums and compile a list here for you?  I would hope someone at Code Club has been doing this already and has a much better list than we would make, using this thread.


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All of these people saying cheeky stuff like "I can go on forever!" or "I'm not even getting started haha!" instead of being a edgy general thing people say you know, maybe actually


say what the problem is


instead of saying what others say and hopping on the bandwagon without even knowing what a problem is


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Most of you who are complaining about SOTG just want other paths to have pvp related powers too.

You fail to see the whole picture and other paths have just as much use.

Knowledge is very good for crafting alts or dedicated crafters.

Love is good for people who like Farming, breeding etc.

 

TLDR: If you want to PvP pick insanity, power or hate and if you want to craft,w/e pick something else.

No, my main concern has always been around the fact it takes too long for newer pvpers to obtain powers and only partially that sotg is too powerfull comparable to lets say hate.

ps. permanent 50% dmg reduction and hates temporary 50% dmg buff doesnt nullify eachother... and no, its not up for discussion. you just fail at math if you believe this.

Edited by Zekezor
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Player positioning de-sync, high memory usage/leak in large scale PVP.

Basically make the game more playable in PVP.

Must agree with this. All others are small things, but game is unplayable on more ppl in local also in pve. If comes to uniques, need turn off all animations, so game gets back somewhere to 2007. Cant imagine fps in some pvp battle. Need some better using memory, gpu accel, remove unnecessary code. Graphic engine is that what gives big stop for further develop. Has no sence add more and more detailed models with current engine. Game come slower and slower. Y can start now with removing useless things to get little  code boost and get more optimalizations. I know, there is almost impossible rework base game engine, but in my opinion is point, which show us further destiny of wurm.

Edited by ftoz
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oh and about Valrei....


post:





Rightie.... The scenario/mission system is many years old but its still feels kinda halfdone in certain aspects.


Especially the new PMR gods missions which pretty much noone touches atm.


So with that said, here is some new stuff to improve it.


 


1)


fix the bug where missions status doesn't switch between enemy/everyone when gods alignment does. (this causes missions to appear doable or undoable while being the opposite)


 


2)


Add colour to the mission progress bar.


Red-shaded bar colour for enemy missions.


Green-shaded bar colour for missions you have participated in.


Available missions that a player hasn't been participated in remains the same as before.


 


In other words:


Mission%20progress.png VS Mission%20progress2.png


 


It will allow players to quickly identify available missions and easier keep track of the current mission they are doing and also quickly know if they have received sleep bonus from it.


 


Also add a 1 or 2 pixel blue line showing how much you have participated instead of a brand new line.


Mission%20progress4.png


 


3)


Increase the reward of larger construction projects such as pylons. It's a high difficulty (in other words high fail chance) construction involving 4250 material and terraforming. It takes multiple hours of constructing it and in most cases you are exposed to the enemy during this time.


Also divide the scenario points among all participants based on contribution. There is already a list for this... The already excisting plaques. (the plaques list a bit too many players though with no participation... but thats another bug to fix)


b8ac2189fa.png


 


4)


Greatly increase the scenariopoints/karma of missions that has settlement draining as a requirement and distribute it equally among all players in local that are of the same kingdom as the drainer.


 


5)


If a person doing a valrei structure ritual or tower ritual mission is in a group: Then equally distribute scenario points/karma among the group.


 


6)


Double the rewards of enemy homeserver missions. Increase rewards by half on Elevation. (risk vs reward and promoting pvp)


 


7)


Split scenario point pools of diffrent gods in the spell list.


 


8)


Upon hovering over the scenario point pools currently this is displayed "Scenario Points is a beneficial effect caused by players"... Replace it with information that actually says what it is to newbies.


Like "Scenario points are rewarded from missions and have the chance of giving valrei items at the end of a scenario on Epic"


 


8)


Upon hovering over one of the scenario point pools, add a secondary displayed line with the ammount of tickets and the ammount of points to the next ticket and the karma generated from the scenario missions.


"Tickets (4), Next ticket (643 points), Karma gained (6700)"


sidenote for devs: you only need the already excisting scenario points number to calculate all these things client-sided.


 


9)


Get a ingame valrei map going... ya know... the WIP one posted earlier :)


All the coding excist already and you can borrow some placeholder icons untill proper ones are made if need be :)


 


 


 


 


Overall I think this will heighten the desire to participate in missions (even if its a PMR god, cuz of that sweet 30min sleep bonus). Especially the more difficult/hostile missions that a lot of people currently pass on. And just in general make valrei and missions feel more complete.





Thread:


http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/125513-missionscenario-polishing/


 


Epic titles:




Pretty darn simple... Add the real 100 titles with their fancy names instead of the utter ###### "epic blabla" titles.


 


Or give us a set of titles diffrent from freedom that aren't crap.


 


 


Stop treating epic like second-hand customers.




 


Also tower guards and towers wear the wrong flags for pmks... please adjust simple stuff like that... towers/guards with enemey kingdom logos at your capital is.... weird...


it's not a bug. it's just a unfinished feature.... well it could be a finished halfassed feature i suppose.


 


 


 


The whole siege engine system is really poorly made and needs polishing overall... its just... bad... there has been threads about this before so the info should already be available.


Edited by Zekezor
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We need to be able to drag directly from container to container (example: dragging a stack of crates from my knarr to my wagon so it doesn't take an hour to move all the crates in a knarr)

 

I had a bunch of ideas, then I saw this. If nothing else in this thread happened except this change, we'd be cool.

Also a wooden beam storage method. Support beams (60kg) fit in a crate, wooden beam (17kg?) does not fit in anything. 

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Most of you who are complaining about SOTG just want other paths to have pvp related powers too.

You fail to see the whole picture and other paths have just as much use.

Knowledge is very good for crafting alts or dedicated crafters.

Love is good for people who like Farming, breeding etc.

 

TLDR: If you want to PvP pick insanity, power or hate and if you want to craft,w/e pick something else.

 

hate isn't as good as insanity, don't pretend like it is, ever, or that any other path is on the same level because they aren't. It's misleading, and not correct in the slightest.

 

the double damage is on a timer, and the spell resistance is pretty much the same as insanity. (because low damage already + 50% reduced.)

 

power is only good in 1v1s.

 

the 2x from love is the same as having insanity too, because why do you need to heal twice as much when you take less? l0l

 

 

 

In a proper 1v1, SOTG will win every single time unless path of power spams sludge.

 

In a group fight, provided no spells or tactics are used and its a straight brawl, the side with the most SOTG will win.

In a group fight, provided no tactics are used, SOTG will win.

In a boat fight, provided they have a good captain, SOTG will win.

 

It's a crutch.

Edited by Propheteer
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-Fishing pole shouldn't be any larger then a pickaxe/shovel.

 

 

surely you mean shouldn't be heavier? My RL fishing rod is 10 feet long, they get a fair bit longer than that, but weighs maybe 1/4 of what my shovels do.

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Regarding the request to list wogic and quirks, all in one thread, I just want to ask:  What has been happening to all our suggestions and server bug reports on the quirks and wogic that needs fixing?  Are you just asking the community to comb through those sub forums and compile a list here for you?  I would hope someone at Code Club has been doing this already and has a much better list than we would make, using this thread.

 

All bug reports get recorded and we do look at the most popular suggestions. But I still think there are lots of small things that don't necessarily get discussed, that one single thread could help with :3

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Player positioning de-sync, high memory usage/leak in large scale PVP.

Basically make the game more playable in PVP.

Quoting this, so devs see it better.

 

This is an issue even on pve servers. Makes it hard to trade with people and interact with them. The memory leak/usage gets rather annoying as well.

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