Fix the damn PvE rules!

[Shadz 525]

Gumbo was told to get out of an undeeded private mine belonging to a player he previously attempted to grief 2-3 weeks prior and was given a warning previously by GMs to cut the crap.  This same mine holds all of the same resources, if not less, than the mines that Gumbo owns and is no where close to any of his deeds or mines.  Gumbo also sailed from his deed directly to the port south of the mine in question, unloaded his equipment, and headed straight to the mine to bash it in.  If that isn't textbook griefing then you're biased.  Thankfully the GMs aren't biased.  When they give you a warning and tell you to knock it off, it's time to knock it off.  If a person, after being given such a directive, ignores that directive and continues to harass and grief anyway, then they are saying "to hell with the moderators, I'll do what I please!"  That is when it is time to act further or even ban said player.  Plain and simple, that is as textbook as it gets.

[JoyKill 25]

 Anyone with a shred of intelligence would see what you did as griefing.
Was cutting down our neighbors tree farm and packing the words "bridge" into the grass, to taunt us about an idea for a bridge also something we made up?

The GM's at the time deemed that griefing. How about coming to our village to "mine" and talking crap to our villagers about Slickshot, calling him a c%$#sucker and looking around for something to report about our deed, just to get back at us for your hurt feelings.

 

Proof

[22:18:23] <Ricardor> hi there

[22:18:40] <Gumbo> o/

[22:18:51] <Ricardor> why you apear like enemy?

[22:19:15] <Gumbo> because Slickshot is a .sucker

[22:19:32] <Ricardor> why?

[22:20:13] <Gumbo> he KoS me here at Storms End cuz he lost a Tunnel Naming contest I ran on the forums a while ago.. he didn't like the name that won and he cried like a little baby

[22:21:34] <Ricardor> wow... are you gonna kill me?

[22:21:40] <Gumbo> lol

[22:22:09] <Gumbo> are you a villager at Storms End?

[22:22:13] <Ricardor> yes

[22:22:54] <Gumbo> you can prolly find a better village.. Slickshot iis kinda disliked by most people in this game cuz he's an idiot

[22:23:17] <Ricardor> well. ive been liked him

[22:23:56] <Ricardor> have no skills

[22:26:44] <Ricardor> whats your village?

[22:27:07] <Gumbo> why do you ask?

[22:27:28] <Ricardor> just assking

[22:30:25] <Ricardor> what are you doing in our village

[22:30:27] <Ricardor> ?

[22:30:42] <Gumbo> waiting for a GM to show up

[Shadz 525]

 Anyone with a shred of intelligence would see what you did as griefing.

Was cutting down our neighbors tree farm and packing the words "bridge" into the grass, to taunt us about an idea for a bridge also something we made up?

The GM's at the time deemed that griefing. How about coming to our village to "mine" and talking crap to our villagers about Slickshot, calling him a c%$#sucker and looking around for something to report about our deed, just to get back at us for your hurt feelings.

 

Proof

[22:18:23] <Ricardor> hi there

[22:18:40] <Gumbo> o/

[22:18:51] <Ricardor> why you apear like enemy?

[22:19:15] <Gumbo> because Slickshot is a .sucker

[22:19:32] <Ricardor> why?

[22:20:13] <Gumbo> he KoS me here at Storms End cuz he lost a Tunnel Naming contest I ran on the forums a while ago.. he didn't like the name that won and he cried like a little baby

[22:21:34] <Ricardor> wow... are you gonna kill me?

[22:21:40] <Gumbo> lol

[22:22:09] <Gumbo> are you a villager at Storms End?

[22:22:13] <Ricardor> yes

[22:22:54] <Gumbo> you can prolly find a better village.. Slickshot iis kinda disliked by most people in this game cuz he's an idiot

[22:23:17] <Ricardor> well. ive been liked him

[22:23:56] <Ricardor> have no skills

[22:26:44] <Ricardor> whats your village?

[22:27:07] <Gumbo> why do you ask?

[22:27:28] <Ricardor> just assking

[22:30:25] <Ricardor> what are you doing in our village

[22:30:27] <Ricardor> ?

[22:30:42] <Gumbo> waiting for a GM to show up

[Dairuka 888]

is it just me, or is the toxicity and hostility in forums rising steeply recently? Did people get sunburn or something? or is there some disease we should be aware of?

[Gumbo 1,563]

All I know is, I'm gonna die soon... from all the high fives !

Cheers

o/

[Dairuka 888]

All I know is, I'm gonna die soon... from all the high fives !

Cheers

o/

 

I somehow feel compelled to...

 

.

 

Awww yiss. That felt good. Lets do another.

 

 

One more. Come on. You know you want to.

 

 

Don't leave me hanging Gumbro.

 

 

Awww fine. I'll high five myself.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2015 by Dairuka

[Caveman 86]

PvE'rs are more hostile than PvP'rs.

[Slickshot 1,195]

PvE'rs are more hostile than PvP'rs.

That is because pve players can get away with it a lot easier than pvp players can.  Some of the crazies around here that grief others wouldn't pull that crap on a pvp server because they'd be obliterated until they stopped or rage quit. lol  Pretty standard knowledge.

[Galadhel 92]

PvE'rs are more hostile than PvP'rs.

 

 

Thats only true if you're a PvE player. Cause from all your posts I've seen on the forums in the past few months 100% of them have been quite hostile.

[Depends 220]

is it just me, or is the toxicity and hostility in forums rising steeply recently? Did people get sunburn or something? or is there some disease we should be aware of?

 

I haven't noticed any difference from the usual.

[Slickshot 1,195]

I haven't noticed any difference from the usual.

That's the truly sad part.

[JoyKill 25]

To be fair, I've called slickshot alot worse, and done worse to people than what gumbo done, and done it ON their deed, and I've had GM's pm me and resolve issues without any threats of a ban. I've posted totally innappropriate things in public chats, and have received a fairer treatment than gumbo did. Regardless of what Gumbo did or didn't do, and what slickshot did or didn't do, what the GM done wasn't appropriate. At the end of the day, a player was told to get away from an unclaimed piece of land, and if he didn't follow hitlers directive, he would be banned. How is that fair, Anyone with a shred of intelligence would see what happened was unfair.

In any other instance I would agree with everything you said. But considering past and current issues between our deed and Gumbo, It's very obvious that the actions were intended to cause grief in our village and the surrounding area. As for the directive given to gumbo, it was also given to us. I personally think it was a good middle ground decision, and it should force a hopeful end to this issue once and for all.

[Gumbo 1,563]

 Anyone with a shred of intelligence would see what you did as griefing.

Was cutting down our neighbors tree farm and packing the words "bridge" into the grass, to taunt us about an idea for a bridge also something we made up?

The GM's at the time deemed that griefing. How about coming to our village to "mine" and talking crap to our villagers about Slickshot, calling him a c%$#sucker and looking around for something to report about our deed, just to get back at us for your hurt feelings.

 

Wait, I remember you, you're the one that ratted out Slickshot. So rare to see a stool pigeon these days.

 

[18:36:30] <GM> ok, boys, got a report here of someone possibly being fenced into a mine

[18:36:55] <GM> any truth to that?

[18:42:25] <GM> OK, so who built this fence here?

[18:42:42] <Joykill> slick

 

If I was there to grief, I would have messed the heck out of that mine. I didn't screw up anything. All I did was mine veins that were off deed to collect resources. That's not griefing in my books.

[fatboy 448]

soo much drama.   Just create a wurmhole like i did, then everyone fears living beside ya and 0 issues!. tellen ya, that portal really clears out areas! (just hide from enki,  he wouldnt be too happy about replacing more mouses hehe)

[Slickshot 1,195]

Wait, I remember you, you're the one that ratted out Slickshot. So rare to see a stool pigeon these days.

 

[18:36:30] <GM> ok, boys, got a report here of someone possibly being fenced into a mine

[18:36:55] <GM> any truth to that?

[18:42:25] <GM> OK, so who built this fence here?

[18:42:42] <Joykill> slick

 

If I was there to grief, I would have messed the heck out of that mine. I didn't screw up anything. All I did was mine veins that were off deed to collect resources. That's not griefing in my books.

Unfortunately for you, your books are crooked, and the GMs seemed to agree.  Case closed bud, move on.

[Caveman 86]

Thats only true if you're a PvE player. Cause from all your posts I've seen on the forums in the past few months 100% of them have been quite hostile.

I should report you for stalking.

[Parsiuk 38]

This thread is like a "reality check" for me. When I started playing Wurm I got very warm welcoming from existing players. I joined a small village, got assigned a house and a job to do. So I was digging away, crafting in the meantime and everything was fine. I got premium because that Wurm looks like a such a nice game to play with nice people.

 

...and then I came to forums, I read about people griefing, trolling, GM's getting bribed (WTF like?!), game rules being changed to lessen the load on GM's, etc. Now I want to quit!

 

Seriously, is it really that common to get griefed or is it just few unlucky individuals?

Edited August 11, 2015 by Parsiuk

[Aariez 87]

Seriously, is it really that common to get griefed or is it just few unlucky individuals?

A small town of 1,002 people.  1,000 live in peace and are good neighbours.  1 person steals something from another.  So, you have 1,000 good stories and 2 bad ones.  The 2 bad ones make the news, the 1,000 don't.  Is it a good town or a bad one?

[rixk 830]

A small town of 1,002 people.  1,000 live in peace and are good neighbours.  1 person steals something from another.  So, you have 1,000 good stories and 2 bad ones.  The 2 bad ones make the news, the 1,000 don't.  Is it a good town or a bad one?

Problem isnt in those "two people".. Problem is, that 2 bad people can do what they want and policemen are watching them steal stuff.. while putting all the blame to the people from whom is being stolen from.

Edited August 11, 2015 by rixk

[Slickshot 1,195]

This thread is like a "reality check" for me. When I started playing Wurm I got very warm welcoming from existing players. I joined a small village, got assigned a house and a job to do. So I was digging away, crafting in the meantime and everything was fine. I got premium because that Wurm looks like a such a nice game to play with nice people.

 

...and then I came to forums, I read about people griefing, trolling, GM's getting bribed (WTF like?!), game rules being changed to lessen the load on GM's, etc. Now I want to quit!

 

Seriously, is it really that common to get griefed or is it just few unlucky individuals?

For the most part, in my experience, griefing isn't extremely common.  The way it works is this:  on a PvE server we cannot take action as players and serve justice to those who wrong us like PvP servers can do.  This situation allows the few who truly intend to harm others to do as they will.  When a GM steps in and only gives a warning and then chooses to not discuss the directive/warning in public for all to see, then the criminal at hand is basically set free without any justice.  That player is typically likely to do such a thing again because the GMs didn't punish him the first time.  Most of the griefing in this game is accidental (new players not knowing they shouldn't just destroy the landscape around a deed) and not griefing at all, however some of the cases are legit, but it just so happens that the ones griefing others don't get punished as hard as they should or thrown into the light of day, so they continue to sneak around causing chaos.  So at the end of the day, there are only a handful of players who are truly malicious and try to bend the rules as hard as they can without breaking them.  Those players usually fail, but the GMs don't always get the punishment right, so the cycle begins again.  This is the main problem.  Punishments or directive should always be posted to allow others to decide if they want to have dealings with said criminal player, or if they'd rather keep their distance.  Throwing them into the light also breaks their reputation and ability to lie to others to spin a web, and thus cuts down on their ability or desire to grief and get away with it.

 

No worries bud, you don't have to quit.  Keep on playing with the people you enjoy, and do your best to ignore the few filthy children that run amok.

[Battlepaw 585]

This thread is like a "reality check" for me. When I started playing Wurm I got very warm welcoming from existing players. I joined a small village, got assigned a house and a job to do. So I was digging away, crafting in the meantime and everything was fine. I got premium because that Wurm looks like a such a nice game to play with nice people.

 

...and then I came to forums, I read about people griefing, trolling, GM's getting bribed (WTF like?!), game rules being changed to lessen the load on GM's, etc. Now I want to quit!

 

Seriously, is it really that common to get griefed or is it just few unlucky individuals?

 

Most of the sillyness on the forum you should not associate too close to reality.   Most of the community does not participate in the drama fests that encourage the kind of griefing that you see between many players, and most of the situations I've heard of get resolved by GMs if it gets out of hand.  It does happen, but it is a sandbox game.    

 

Much of the stuff I saw on Xanadu, was players trying to grief to drive others away, or disrupt other alliance's work plans, etc.    I looked at one example of a sabotaged canal, and almost snorted in laughter.   It was something that was quite preventable, and nowhere near what I was used to from enemy kingdoms on Chaos when they were sabotaging my own projects there.  

 

I fixed it in about an hour's worth of work.     Though I knew how to quickly fix it, the players I was working with were not used to that sort of thing.    They weren't used to it because the majority of them never saw greifing before and I have (though it's not called greifing on Chaos, just the normal way the kingdoms break each other's infrastructure).  They spent more time trying to find the culprit, I just dug away and shrugged my shoulders. I've grown used to fixing things that get broken.   It wasn't exactly common for them though.    

 

From most of the posts I've gathered, here and in recent topics over other incidents, I can express my own interest in trying to figure out just why it's supposed to be a massive issue.    Many of the situations would be preventable by simple precautions, and the ones that arn't preventable quite clearly fall under some of the stuff covered in the rules about greifing, and should be an open and shut case.     

 

So, my question to the players with the issues, just what is going wrong?    Are the GMs not following the guidelines?   Do we need better protections, or some new mechanics?   I'm still trying to figure this out.     

Edited August 11, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Mordraug 2,542]

Well Batty, you say it yourself frequently.

 

The majority never posts so, one can easily extrapolate that number to the amount of people who just up and quit without saying a word after the GM's gave them a warning and the griefer a hug.

 

About half the people I made friends with quit due to the coddling of griefers in general, none of them posted.  Hell, some of them just stopped logging in after informing us of the /support results and let their stuff rot away, which inevitably led to at least 2 or 3 more people following them to whatever game they picked next.

 

From my personal experience, thus, 4 people have cost Wurm a bit over 40 players in under a year.  One of them got appointed CA and the other one climbed higher than that in the hierarchy.  Brilliant.  By the way a couple more quit when they heard of THAT.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Mordraug

[Gumbo 1,563]

Unfortunately for you, your books are crooked, and the GMs seemed to agree.  Case closed bud, move on.

 

[18:36:30] <GM> ok, boys, got a report here of someone possibly being fenced into a mine

[18:36:55] <GM> any truth to that?

[18:42:25] <GM> OK, so who built this fence here?

[18:42:42] <Joykill> slick

 

You don't seem to realize this, but you building a fence and intentionally locking someone in a mine makes you a griefer. You keep going on and on pretending you're not, but your own villager ratted you out. So face up to it. You're a griefer.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Gumbo

[Keenan 5,539]

On the last page I saw the phrase "undeeded private mine".

 

Just to be clear, the "undeeded" part makes the second part invalid.

 

If you fail to deed something, you fail to make it private and fail to own it. I love bashing off-deed mine doors because I've got a horrible curiosity at times. Also, if you're going to deed a mine, you should also consider that someone can easily approach it from off-deed.

 

An example of a private mine would be:

• On Deed
  
• Doored and managed properly
  
• Reinforcing the last on-deed rock tiles.
  

Anything less and your mine is far from private.

[Gumbo 1,563]

On the last page I saw the phrase "undeeded private mine".

 

Just to be clear, the "undeeded" part makes the second part invalid.

 

If you fail to deed something, you fail to make it private and fail to own it. I love bashing off-deed mine doors because I've got a horrible curiosity at times. Also, if you're going to deed a mine, you should also consider that someone can easily approach it from off-deed.

 

An example of a private mine would be:

• On Deed

Doored and managed properly

Reinforcing the last on-deed rock tiles.

Anything less and your mine is far from private.

 

Exactly. Slickshot keeps trying to lay claim to off deed veins as his and therefore me mining them is griefing. It's not. Nobody owns them, they are free for anyone to mine and I resent being labeled as a griefer because of Slickshots delusion.