Large Community Village/Alliance [Poll]

[Leroy 315]

Currently in a large alliance of many deeds clustered together. It has a village feel but with much more sprawl. Cheaper than a 40g upkeep village. Some of us share walled perimeter used for community farming. Of was fun to move an alliance from an old server to Xanadu and plan our deeds so that they interlock.

[Outlaw 697]

Updated the OP with some different information.

 

I'm not considering creating such a place, I just wanted to see peoples thoughts and ideas on it.

 

Thanks to everyone for staying on topic and posting great replies

[Audrel 2,223]

Yes, yes, yes.

On chaos I'm actually in the process of building houses alongside the Gold Coast to encourage settlement of that area to create a sort of neutral Freedom Kingdom faction on Chaos.

 

That could be fun. 

[Zundy 99]

That could be fun.

Incidentally, if anyone is interested then by all means grab a mallet and join in!

[Leroy 315]

Incidentally, if anyone is interested then by all means grab a mallet and join in!

Incidentally, how do the neighbors view this? Do they plan to raid it midconstruction or wait until its finished and burn it down as motivation that new people don't try their server?

[Edzwarr 197]

No,Yes,No.

Alliances work great if you have like minded people in it. Being in OTG for as long as I have and stumbling across this game 4 years ago, and discovering that they have had a presence on Black Dog Isle since Indy started, makes for a very nice tight knit community. It allows us to take on bigger projects that others can't, like the recent canal and inner sea bridges that we built.

OTG in general, has a presence on almost every server, but we still stay connected with other guildies using Mumble so it doesn't matter what server they are on, we all stay connected.

 But now it would be very hard to leave BDI after spending 4 years working on the place. 

[Xandra 353]

Hi,

Would you join a large new village?

• No, why should I? I don't want to live together with many ppl, I want to do my own thing, together with a small, cosy group.
  Would I be interested to play in a large, organized group I'd maybe try PvP. But I'm not, it never was my play style (the large, organized groups). And that's what Wurmian PvP requires, so it doesn't attract me.

Would you join an alliance of smaller deeds?

• Other. I'm already in a great alliance of smaller deeds, and I'll not leave it. At least as long as they'd not kick me ...

Would you be willing to leave your current deed?

• No. We have 6 beautiful deeds of our own, why should we give 'em up?

 

I don't see much sense in big deeds on PvE, besides "Newbie Academies".

PvE is about to be creative, build beautiful things and enjoy them, right? And this is best done in a small team/ as hermit, or in a nice alliance of small teams/ hermits. As soon as it gets to larger projects, the more (maybe even new/ unknown) people are in, the more management overhead. It just doesn't make sense.

 

Large groups are a PvP feature, IMHO. There's need of the sheer number, and there's more easily accepted the way of centralized guidance that I'd not be willing to accept.

 

Each their own. I strongly welcome the idea of "Newbie Academies" on PvE, and if there'd be one close enough (not too close, plz!!!) we'd be ready to support it in any way possible.

 

My 2 iron coins. Have fun!

[Malena 2,854]

*Please post, giving reasons as to why you voted as you did, if you vote*

 

1. We have almost no incentive to live together on PvE. A single person can do everything if they have enough time and resources, which really doesn't require all that much once you have a deed. Say 10s for a smallish deed and after that you can play a few hours a week and still progress, even if slowly. This could and probably should be fixed to give people advantages for working together.

 

I voted "No" on all accounts due to the fact that I too, am a hermit.

 

There are a million reasons why people would want to go it alone and I would absolutely hate to see our ability to do so compromised in any way. We do not need "incentive" to play or live together and if the game somehow tried to force us to do so by giving us a weaker experience than our social counterparts who were getting "advantages", I for one would actually just leave the game. In fact it's the very fact that Wurm allows me to enjoy a relatively equal experience to the social players that makes me love this game so much - unlike so many other MMOs out there. 

 

Reasons why people like to play alone:

• They have very busy RL lives and due to their lack of activity and attendance, do not want to be a burden or hindrance to their fellow players because they can't be around to take part in "what everyone else is doing together". I would hate to have to feel guilty logging on and apologizing for not being around enough!

They have families that demand their attention on and off, partners who need them to help out or children who climb on their laps, babies who need to be put to bed, toddlers who want a banana etc. Trying to play with people in an MMO while all that is going on is horrible.

In all simplicity they prefer their own company over those of others. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

They have very hectic demanding lives IRL. Their work places demand their full attention, their friends and family demand their attention and help, so logging on after the day is over and the kids are in bed and the partner is watching their favorite show - gives them the perfect opportunity to enjoy some "alone time". How relaxing to do a little crafting and listen to the birdies chirp and the forge crackle. No one asking anything. No one needing anything. 

They've had bad experiences with people who let them down, griefed or swindled them and have come to realize that the only safe way is the loner way. 

They have some emotional or physical medical condition that hinders their ability to "be social". Perhaps they cannot write properly on the keyboard, perhaps they have some quirks that others find weird, perhaps other people make them anxious.

They want complete control over their environment. For some, this may be very soothing that they can control at least "something" in their lives if their life is very chaotic and unpredictable

 

The list goes on and on and I'm sure others could fill in yet more reasons. But the point is that under no circumstances should the game change in such a way that tries to "convince or force" lone wolf players to play with others. They have their reasons for their playstyle and this needs to be respected. 

 

In the same breath I'd also like to say that I'm all for making mechanisms or tools (instead of benefits or advantages) to allow social players to come together in a more safe and convenient way. It's great that the game offers the possibility to enjoy a social experience as well. In fact a friend of mine wants to bring her workmates to Wurm so they can make a village together and I was advising her how to do that today. So social people, go forth and multiply and enjoy your social lives, just don't force us loners to come along. 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Malena

[Odynn 2,248]

No, large new villages are nice, but you spend a lot of time creating something to see all your members leaving one after another. Been there, done that, living on my mountains since then, and yes, we had a lot of villagers.

 

No, I'm already in an alliance of smaller deed with a few choosen peeps, we trust each others and can limit our roles as we see fit on our deeds. Trust and roles being the main key words here. Being allied or friending people tend to do one thing in the game lately : stab you in the back when you are not looking. In my alliance stay some of the deeds we built, can still host an impalong or welcome 20/30 peeps.

 

No, my deed costed me 2g, I spend around 2g in mats and dirt, and i'm still working on it after 2 years. Not the kind of investisment / involvment you leave behind.

 

Basicly, what you are looking for is not old players, but new ones with no ties in the game yet, willing to get involve in a big project and more important, staying on wurm... and that's the harder part.

 

Good luck in your projects and keep us updated.

[Pashka 707]

I know alot of folks do love larger villages and even large alliances.  That is great and is always an option for those people.  There should be no advantages by the game other than what they already have of so many working together to accomplish things faster.  If the game did give other advantages, it would just force people like me to make loads of free alts to join my town for the number.

[Chiqa 742]

While I voted no,I musts ay I have the best of both worlds. A deed I love and am very content with ,very close to a few good friends and allys. we can run to each-others place as needed. For me this is the perfect setup and there is nothing I would care to change about it.

We help each other , have adventures and go back to our own dirt.  Life is good.

[Alden 209]

My 2 cents:

 

Being part of a larger community means following someone else's vision rather than your own.

I personally don't have a problem with that, but I can understand that many would rather go off and work on their own projects.

 

And with no overarching reason to be part of a large community on PvE, it's natural to see a true village bleed off over time until it becomes a community of one man deeds spread over a large area.

 

Things might be very different if there was a reason for PvE communities to compete with one another, in a larger sense and not just around lone crafters undercutting their competitors prices down at the local tool market.

Something like Guilds perhaps that compete over an economy based HOTA where the winning Guild gets rewarded for their efforts.

But that's for another thread I think.

[Naio 675]

As unpopular as this opinion is going to be - if you are looking for more of a community vibe, give Chaos a try.  At this time, both MR and JK have deeds that are squared safely away far enough behind enemy lines that they are both not viable to raid, nor are they worth the time.  There are a large number of people on chaos, on both MR and JK, that live on their deed, rarely leave, get to be part of a community and still have the options to 1) go back to freedom when they feel like peace and quiet 2) go hang out on the front lines  3) continue building up the deed as they see fit.

 

I think there's a big misconception for those that have never been on Chaos that it's all 2x2 houses hiding behind big dirt walls crammed into a tiny space.  While that's true for the wardeeds on the frontlines (that no one lives at, I might add), the reality is, all the deeds that people live at are 100x100, 75x75, huge areas for farming, building houses, animals, etc etc.

 

And honestly, even on the front lines if you're building a new war deed, it's one of my favorite things to do.  Watching 10+ people all work to accomplish a single goal is amazing.  And, after day 1 and minimal defenses are up, they are safe to stay at as well in the majority of cases.

 

BL and Ebonaura also have their advantages, but at this time they are smaller kingdoms so if you're looking for the "chill out on a deed with no risk of a raid" they probably dont have as much opportunity to offer that playstyle as MR and JK.

 

If you are interested, I did an unbiased comparison of the current kingdom situations here: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/45024-skirmishesrandom-kills-the-revival-no-trolling-just-love-d/page-534#entry1297505

 

 

And, speaking for MR I know that there are a number of deeds that people do this on, especially since MR has control of a significant portion of the map at this time.  For JK, I can't speak to specifics but they have some bigger deeds like Kyara and others surrounding Kyara that I'm sure there are plenty of people with this playstyle that live there.

 

Speaking for MR (and I'm assuming it's the same for JK) we don't sell anything to anyone.  Boats, 90QL weapons, 90ql armor, tools, free enchants, etc etc - we just hand out to each other.  Sure it's appreciated if you can spam a bunch of locks if you need a lot of things enchanted, or if you have time to spend help building or terraforming etc, that's great.  But the trade forum on the MR boards is basically people selling sleeping powder, or lists of things that people have to give away.  It's much less about "I need to make 4000 bricks so I can deliver it and sell it for silver so I can get a new 90ql weapon since I don't have weaponsmithing" - it's "i need to make a post on the forums asking for a couple things and be willing to pay the 10c mail cost or walk down the road to the guy who's making them"

 

Chaos is a friendly community for intra-kingdom things, don't look at the non-stop trolling and hate on the chaos forums as a representation of how people treat each other within the kingdom.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Naio

[damine 54]

*Please post, giving reasons as to why you voted as you did, if you vote*

 

 

***Edit: After reading through every response so far, a few things have become very clear. (Something I've thought for a long time, however needed to actually poll people to make sure)

 

1. We have almost no incentive to live together on PvE. A single person can do everything if they have enough time and resources, which really doesn't require all that much once you have a deed. Say 10s for a smallish deed and after that you can play a few hours a week and still progress, even if slowly. This could and probably should be fixed to give people advantages for working together.

2. Large amount of time already invested in current location. This hinders any potential 'server closing'. Can't really be fixed and definitely understandable...I feel the same.

3. Trust. People don't wish to trust a mayor with everything. This would need a complex permission system and possibly other systems to 'fix' however it would definitely be nice to see some sort of solution to this issue. ***

 

 

Given some of the recent replies to the 'Why are so many quitting?' thread, I thought I would poll the idea of creating a new or turning an existing deed into a huge, new community deed. Or multiple, closely linked deeds in part of an alliance.

 

Due to how permissions work currently, I think a collection of smaller deeds, placed nearby and with a larger, central deed would be the best way to run it. That way, people can have their smaller communities and still be part of something larger.

 

The last time I was part of a large project on Freedom was at the initial creation of VotD, which was a great experience...even if it was a lot of digging It had a real feeling of community and seeing other players doing stuff was great, even if we didn't interact. It would be great to get that back again, in a somewhat 'permanent' way.

 

The purpose of this thread, is to judge whether there is demand for such a place to be created. A place where there would regularly be 20+ people online and preferably close to a spawn location so that there are plenty of newbies passing by to 'recruit' or at least give them a good first impression. I realize there are newbie academies on multiple servers (or at least, there were). This would be sort of like that, however with more people and would benefit existing players too. This could be in the form of 1 giant deed, or a collection of smaller ones, with a central hub of sorts.

 

This would only work if people were willing to 'pick up and move' from their current locations and would require plenty of planning etc...but let's not worry about that for now. I also realize it may require a 'snowball effect' to gain movement. Once a few people move, it may encourage more to do so.

No Reason I own multi Deeds on same server  and have permissions set so my alts can do what they please and dont trust others with these type of settings I have set

Assuming all the details are worked out and it is set up, ready to go, would you want to join such a place?

 

If anyone reading this owns a large deed or even one of the newbie academies, I would like to hear whether or not you would be up 'joining forces' and combining multiple deeds either into 1 big one or building within a couple of locals of one another, rather than the current situation where everyone is spread out.

 

I am also not proposing that I am the one to lead such an endeavor. It wouldn't even have to require starting a completely new deed. An existing one could host everyone and be expanded upon. Although, the fun of a fresh start is always good too.

 

(It's late and my thoughts are all over...sorry for the messy layout, but I think everyone will understand what I'm getting at)

[Wulfgarr 810]

I voted Yes, Yes, No. (No because i love my village RH on Chaos). As Naio said the kingdoms on Chaos are basically big alliances where you have basic access to most of the deeds, the alliance chat is full of people and active. There is tons of tools for the alliance members to use and alot of projects you can but do not have to participate. I know alot of people who grind on their deed in rather safe enviroment and not worry about pvp. And alot of people go and play a little on other servers, come back - have some fun and go back to building a deed on freedom.

[beach 31]

We are already doing this in SW Xanadu...

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/126875-the-eventuality-the-biggest-village-in-wurm/

 

If you are interested in packing up and moving, we still have room and are making even more!

[Aeris 3,752]

"Incentives" and "advantages" for living together with others shouldn't be a thing in a game where the risk of trusting people is often greater than the reward. Trust and time invested in current living situations aren't the only reasons why people wouldn't live together in a large collective and I can think of many right off the bat, some of which I'll post. There are lots of things that influence how you choose to live.

 

When you choose a village/villager or alliance/alliance members you:
1) Choose the people who will be able to pick up your corpse if you die

2) Choose the people with whom you are going to spend your time online and most likely will get to know on a personal level

3) Become part of a group dynamic where you will have to compromise your own ideals in order to make it work

4) Have to limit either yourself or others in order for the village/alliance to be safe from grief from within (for example allow people to be able to build but not destroy walls on their house since the destroy permission overrides writ access)

5) Will be accused of being reckless when you inevitably invite someone who harasses your villagers/allies. If a random passerby harasses you and yours you're met with understanding and sympathy, if it's someone you trusted people will treat you cruely for it and possibly even harass you some more as icing on the cake

6) Might make the decision to not live with anyone whatsoever because you enjoy your personal privacy in the ever changing MMO environment, that little patch where only you get to decide

7) Accept that others might need something from you that will take away from "your" time

8) Might actually not be interested in interacting with the other people in the game. I know it's an MMO but some people don't come here for the social aspects, they come for the gameplay features or to play along with people they already know IRL

 

 

The village I'm part of, Silent Hill, has taken in many players over the years and that was our dream. We wanted the steady flow of new players to guide and potential future friends to hang out with and for many years it worked very well but I can definitely say that for me that dream has changed. We had so much experience in taking people in and thought we knew what we were doing but the settings are full of contradictions and there's just too much griefing going on in this game. I'm glad we made friends and got ourselves a great alliance back before it all turned into a rubble of poo because it's really hard to trust people nowadays. I completely understand where you're coming from with your idea and I wish you good luck, but beware of all the dangers and also that giving "incentives" and "advantages" to people for living together is a sort of punishment for people who choose not to.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Aeris

[Lotus1 315]

While I like the idea of a large village in theory, the headaches that could potentially arise through drama, permissions, and other aspects would also be enhanced 10 fold. Large villages have to be done right or else they fall faster than how they start up.

 

With smaller deeds in a large alliance, people tend to feel more free. They're on their own deed. They are in charge of their deed and can leave the alliance if they want and keep their stuff they built. If you leave a village, you practically have to start over.

 

Also, I fully vouch for Aeris' post and Silent Hill. There's a reason why they've lasted so many years: they are awesome people and, to me, a large village done correctly 

[williamwierd 390]

Would you join a large new village?

No. I simply feel restless if I'm living at someone else's deed, even if I fully trust them. I don't truly own anything on it, and if I do leave I leave, any work I put into the deed I leave behind as well. Besides that, Wurm has shown to be a truly buggy game where you can't even trust that you won't suddenly burn into flames. Let alone trust that someone else in the village won't be able to find a way to steal from you.

 

Would you join an alliance of smaller deeds?

I'd consider it, especially if I didn't have my current deed.

 

Would you be willing to leave your current deed?

I'd never be willing to disband my current deed or leave it for too long. however I wouldn't mind the idea of owning an extra deed, as a kind of vacation home and farming deed.

Edited July 22, 2015 by williamwierd

[Conquestor 13]

*Please post, giving reasons as to why you voted as you did, if you vote*

 

 

***Edit: After reading through every response so far, a few things have become very clear. (Something I've thought for a long time, however needed to actually poll people to make sure)

 

1. We have almost no incentive to live together on PvE. A single person can do everything if they have enough time and resources, which really doesn't require all that much once you have a deed. Say 10s for a smallish deed and after that you can play a few hours a week and still progress, even if slowly. This could and probably should be fixed to give people advantages for working together.

2. Large amount of time already invested in current location. This hinders any potential 'server closing'. Can't really be fixed and definitely understandable...I feel the same.

3. Trust. People don't wish to trust a mayor with everything. This would need a complex permission system and possibly other systems to 'fix' however it would definitely be nice to see some sort of solution to this issue. ***

 

 

Given some of the recent replies to the 'Why are so many quitting?' thread, I thought I would poll the idea of creating a new or turning an existing deed into a huge, new community deed. Or multiple, closely linked deeds in part of an alliance.

 

Due to how permissions work currently, I think a collection of smaller deeds, placed nearby and with a larger, central deed would be the best way to run it. That way, people can have their smaller communities and still be part of something larger.

 

The last time I was part of a large project on Freedom was at the initial creation of VotD, which was a great experience...even if it was a lot of digging It had a real feeling of community and seeing other players doing stuff was great, even if we didn't interact. It would be great to get that back again, in a somewhat 'permanent' way.

 

The purpose of this thread, is to judge whether there is demand for such a place to be created. A place where there would regularly be 20+ people online and preferably close to a spawn location so that there are plenty of newbies passing by to 'recruit' or at least give them a good first impression. I realize there are newbie academies on multiple servers (or at least, there were). This would be sort of like that, however with more people and would benefit existing players too. This could be in the form of 1 giant deed, or a collection of smaller ones, with a central hub of sorts.

 

This would only work if people were willing to 'pick up and move' from their current locations and would require plenty of planning etc...but let's not worry about that for now. I also realize it may require a 'snowball effect' to gain movement. Once a few people move, it may encourage more to do so.

 

Assuming all the details are worked out and it is set up, ready to go, would you want to join such a place?

 

If anyone reading this owns a large deed or even one of the newbie academies, I would like to hear whether or not you would be up 'joining forces' and combining multiple deeds either into 1 big one or building within a couple of locals of one another, rather than the current situation where everyone is spread out.

 

I am also not proposing that I am the one to lead such an endeavor. It wouldn't even have to require starting a completely new deed. An existing one could host everyone and be expanded upon. Although, the fun of a fresh start is always good too.

 

(It's late and my thoughts are all over...sorry for the messy layout, but I think everyone will understand what I'm getting at)

If that were to happen, I for one would have significantly less incentive to continue playing this game.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

No, No, and No.

 

The permissions are too uncontrollable to make it worth it to join anything. It's great to have close friends, but we don't have to have something formal that restricts us from taking a chance on a new villager, or whatever we want to do. Also, after having been in an alliance with someone I only thought I knew, I'd rather pass on having that kind of experience again. And I don't like being in forced communication with people I'm not crazy about. I don't need to be talking every minute I'm on Wurm. Some people think that's essential, to be constantly running their mouths about anything that keeps them from reflecting for a moment. I want to talk when I feel like talking, and think when I feel like thinking. Or just blank my mind if I can.

 

As for being forced to move, unless my deeds and animals were picked up as-is and stuck on another coast, and not a coast of some horror like the gigantic 4-hour trips Xanadu, that would be the end for me and I'd be a disgruntled ex-customer.

[Zzabur 6]

Yes, yes, yes

 

However, reading results, i understand players don't want that in pve. That's why i migrated a long time ago to pvp, only because on The Wild, it's very difficult to build a deed alone without an alliance.

 

I understand the OP's project and i totally agree with him, however, i could not find any people willing to work with me when i was searching for such project. I found it on pvp server (i don't fight much).

 

I guess i can understand this : if there are no risks, you can do about everything yourself, in my opinion, a game is a game when you can "lose" something or sometimes (though i disagree with griefing), so if there are no risks, people will live solo. If you have to gather to protect against something, people help each other.

 

Someone said one day, that the war is not about fighting an enemy outside the country, the main purpose of war is to gather people against a common enemy, and then a common purpose.

 

Good luck for your project, though i guess it will be very difficult to gather people for a common project on pve servers (though not impossible), i hope you'll manage to reach your objective, just because there are not enough projects like this.

[Marlon 303]

Only seeing this now... since it got bumped recently.

 

I like isolation, with a few friends I know well... Me, my fiancée, a good buddy, and a nearby deed of relations with someone I also knew for 10 years.

 

It's not personal AT ALL,I have been asked to join alliances, and I have been acting sceptically. It's not an insult, or offences, or looking a gifted horse in the mouth. I just like living on the settlement with people I know, and we work it out together. Yes, we do take in villagers, but not ANYONE, and yes, it's really nice to have them there, that's how you get to know someone, but taking them in, and wanting to have them there, is not a norm.

 

Neighbours in local, around the clock = GREAT pleasure. We can communicate, we can share ideas, we make the occasional joke (you always hear what they are doing)

 

I can see that some would like it, and some would not, but we have that freedom, to live as we want, and do as we want, that is wurm.

 

Adding "incentives" to make people want to do it, is nice... adding incentives to make people HAVE to do it, is a crime. If you are forced to live in some way you don't want to, because you HAVE to, you're not playing a game, you're in real life.

 

My reason for not leaving my place, is the time we put in, the fact that we can design, create or break down anything we want. We afford out villagers the same rights, within in their designated areas of course, which brings me to the last point. I can see that some wouldn't want to join a village, but have to since they don't want to run a settlement or pay for it. In this case, that's why you join a village that gives you the same freedoms you'd have if you ran it yourself.

 

So tldr: I would hate everyday I am involved in a village where I need permission to farm a few extra tiles, or where i'm asked when I'll be online, or where I am told to use teamspeak, but I sincerely understand that some would want that.