How come so many are quitting right now?

[Eobersig 1,005]

Population will go up again when a new PvE server gets released. It's just how it works in Wurm.

 

No, I have no knowledge whatsoever whether that's in the planning but it's just how things are in Wurm: every PvE server becomes a mess of ruins and terra-formed uglyness after a while. That causes that some new players leave cause they can't find what they look for - pristine wilderness - and some old players leave cause they have finished all the building and terra-forming and highway-making they could possibly dream of.

 

 

[Outlaw 697]

boredom caused by nerfs that make the game more tedious for me.

also boredom due to grinding for days without seeing anyone in local

even tho im next to a starting point. ( maybe too many servers caused

that? i dont know.

 

We really, really need to condense the servers we have.

The whole game feels empty on the PvE side, even though there are more players than ever (in general).

 

Rolf just needs to rip the band aid off, refund people for their deeds and remove half the servers.\

 

Or, we could organize ourselves to all move and live on the same server.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Outlaw

[Audrel 2,223]

We really, really need to condense the servers we have.

The whole game feels empty on the PvE side, even though there are more players than ever (in general).

 

Rolf just needs to rip the band aid off, refund people for their deeds and remove half the servers.\

 

Or, we could organize ourselves to all move and live on the same server.

 

Sadly, you are correct. We don't even have enough players to crowd Xanadu let alone all of them. However, I dislike Xanadu with a passion. I would rather stay on my about 50 population server than be forced to live on Xandu. Been there, done that, returned to where I was.

[Webba 257]

I have seen 2 common attitudes from newer players to wurm on freedom:

1. Buy some items at the start and go out get 70 fs build their house and/or deed sit down and say right what else.
   
2. Try to be self sufficient or work their way onto the market and quickly realize that making money is very hard since the trade of unenchanted items, even at 90ql, is uncommon or they just burn out grinding ws.
   

The coins from killing are a nice idea but often give only a small amount. another thing is how are new players supposed to know how to make money in the game, if you come from any other game with a crafting style system you would assume that there is a market for items and as such becoming a crafter and trader would be a sensible profession but honestly it is not. The only way new players can make money is foraging and bulk.

 

As far as people who feel they have finished the game, maybe try adding some high level pve content. It doesn't have to have expensive drops like uniques just something to do since surviving is easy after a few weeks of playing and there is nothing particularly hard to kill solo except the odd champ troll, sea serpent or avatar and people seem to get mad when you kill avatars since it breaks the mission.

 

Finally I think people want another challenge too just as a short break to go have a laugh get some kills and mess around, don't really think it has an impact on people leaving hugely but it can help bring back and bring in new players.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Webba

[Proximo 402]

We really, really need to condense the servers we have.

The whole game feels empty on the PvE side, even though there are more players than ever (in general).

 

Rolf just needs to rip the band aid off, refund people for their deeds and remove half the servers.\

 

Or, we could organize ourselves to all move and live on the same server.

 

I was very much against Xanadu.  Playing on Independence now, once the crown jewel of Wurm, feels like a single-player game most of the time.  And the other servers are even worst off!

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 

Rolf just needs to rip the band aid off, refund people for their deeds and remove half the servers.\

 

Or, we could organize ourselves to all move and live on the same server.

 

 

I like the second option better, and when Xanadu was opened   it was suggested that people who wanted more people, all agree to go there.

 

I stayed on Indy because I personally LOVE the way it is now, with fewer people and less combative competition for space. I am glad Xanadu opened because I personally love the way Indy is now.

 

People who want "one server for everyone" should just all move to Xanadu, because if Rolf closed down all the other servers to force us all there,  a lot of us would leave rather than be forced matched into a more crowded area. 

 

I have always lived in remote areas (log house in oregon with only bears as neighbors, before that an island in alaska) and some of us do not want the "urban lifestyle," ingame or out, and especially not in a game  promotes one of its features as being a wilderness survival game. 

Edited July 10, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[Stargrace 602]

 and less combative competition for space. 

 

I found this amusing. There's no competition for space on Xanadu, it's so enormous even with our higher population it can take hours just to bump into another person / deed - especially if you're inland at all. I moved there for the exact same reason you stayed on Indy. Xanadu is many things, but crowded, is most certainly not one of them (note this doesn't mean some areas are not crowded, sure there are, markets, alliances, etc, but the majority of the server is not). 

 

As a note, I moved from Deliverance, where the most common question was "where can I find empty space for a deed". I have *never* seen that question asked on Xanadu, and I'm betting even in a few more years (since it is a newer server) the question still doesn't get asked. 

Edited July 10, 2015 by Stargrace

[Ecrir 887]

Population will go up again when a new PvE server gets released. It's just how it works in Wurm.

 

Unfortunatly that's an unsustainable growth model for Wurm and really doesn't work that well in the long run. It also wouldn't surpise me if it is even responsible for the continual decline of the player count, harming long term player retention while increasing short term player growth (thus unsustainable growth).

 

Each new server has continually thinned out the player per tile ratio, further reducing player interaction. This is bad because player interaction is very important for an MMO. If players make friends/communities then they are more likely to stick around in the game as they become socially invested. But then new servers come along and these existing communities are scattered as some of the players of said community more to another server (introducing cross server alliances could certainly help a little there). With player density dropping with every new server, the amount of people you are likely to run into also drops, thus you end up meeting less people and become less socially invested in the game compared to when less servers exist. Wurm simply can't continue to get new servers without closing down some of the older servers (which I doubt will happen any time soon, if ever, as that would drive away many existing players and existing players are worth tens, if not hundreds, of potential new players (as most new players don't stick around long enough for them to even matter))

 

Now this wouldn't be a problem if enough people join the game (and stick around) when a new server is added, but this simply hasn't been the case in a long time. The size of Xanadu was probably also a very big mistake when considering the player per tile ratio, and mechanics wise the social aspect of Wurm leaves much to be desired. One thing which would go a long way here would be Persistent private chat channels, so you could create a chat channel and invite others, no matter the server that they are on. Since it's persistent the chat channel would continue to exist and these people would automatically join it whenever they login, until they decide to permanently leave the channel.

 

Suggestions towards the social side of Wurm have been made frequently over the year, but besides alliance chat (which doesn't even work cross server and limits you to one alliance) nothing has been done at all from what I've seen. IRC is no substitute either as most players likely don't even know how to use it or how to set it up so you automatically join a custom channel when logging in, even though it seems to be a frequent enough excuse for why such social features are not needed. IRC simply not player friendly and thus creates a new barrier for social interaction in game, harming player retention.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Ecrir

[Outlaw 697]

I was very much against Xanadu.  Playing on Independence now, once the crown jewel of Wurm, feels like a single-player game most of the time.  And the other servers are even worst off!

 

Xanadu itself is usually the worst for that, unless you live in one of the populated areas.

It is so sparsely populated, even more so than almost any other server.

 

When you combine that with the insane travel times, it just makes the whole thing worse.

 

Back when it was just Indy, you had people in local almost everywhere, and it didn't feel crowded or anything. It had a sense of community, rather than the spread out 'hermit-culture' that developed after that. There still was plenty of secluded areas, you just had to look for them or choose to live in 'less desirable' places.

 

Xanadu is so large, you would need like 2k+ people online at once to make it feel populated. (It's 4x the size of Indy and Indy with 500 people felt somewhat populous)

Plus, due to the size of Xanadu, Pristine/Release are still very much cut off from the old cluster, as no one wants to sail for hours to get there and back on a regular basis.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Outlaw

[Clatius 455]

ummm no end game

 

     

 

This always makes me laugh and shake my head. Let me say this as calmly as possible. IT'S A SANDBOX. THERE IS NO ENDGAME. 

[Clatius 455]

Xanadu itself is usually the worst for that, unless you live in one of the populated areas.

It is so sparsely populated, even more so than almost any other server.

 

When you combine that with the insane travel times, it just makes the whole thing worse.

 

Back when it was just Indy, you had people in local almost everywhere, and it didn't feel crowded or anything. It had a sense of community, rather than the spread out 'hermit-culture' that developed after that. There still was plenty of secluded areas, you just had to look for them or choose to live in 'less desirable' places.

 

Xanadu is so large, you would need like 2k+ people online at once to make it feel populated. (It's 4x the size of Indy and Indy with 500 people felt somewhat populous)

Plus, due to the size of Xanadu, Pristine/Release are still very much cut off from the old cluster, as no one wants to sail for hours to get there and back on a regular basis.

 

Maybe some of us like to be isolated away from the greifing, thieving and drama of the populated areas. 

[Outlaw 697]

People who want "one server for everyone" should just all move to Xanadu, because if Rolf closed down all the other servers to force us all there,  a lot of us would leave rather than be forced matched into a more crowded area.

 

That would work, if when new players signed up Xanadu was their only option for Freedom and there were far fewer spawn points than there are currently.

It wouldn't affect old servers much and anyone who wished to remain on the old servers could do so.

 

I say this as someone who much prefers the old servers. Hell, it wouldn't even have to be Xanadu...just choose any server and have it the only place on Freedom that new players can spawn.

 

 

This would address Clatius' post, although really, there has always been plenty of secluded land in Wurm. But, if you wish to remain completely isolated, you can stay on or sail to one of the older servers and be completely alone. (Just don't complain about lack of economy and slow travel times once you do. I've noticed a lot of the people who complain about such things have chosen to live in remote areas)

Edited July 10, 2015 by Outlaw

[Proximo 402]

Maybe some of us like to be isolated away from the greifing, thieving and drama of the populated areas. 

 

*Points to a mountain and hands you a shovel*

 

Hop to it

[Shiraek 464]

I doubt I'll quit but I've let two deeds lapse in the past few months, been down to one prem character since the price hike and my last deed is currently in arrears and I'm a bit unenthused about paying up again.

 

For me it's mostly about the boredom. New features come on slow. I waited literally years between multi storey and staircases, and my big keep is bugged to hell and back trying to replace ladders with staircases. Yes I'm sure I can get a GM to come and un-bug lots of the floor tiles and get through, but I'd rather see the bug fixed (and not have to wait online for X hours for an overworked volunteer to show up). Bridges were never going to be exciting to me - they're utility really not a great new feature, and their use is pretty limited, and now there is nothing whatsoever planned for PVE features (that I know of?). So why wait around? What am I waiting for?

 

Another influence is the impression I have that people are getting away with stealing and griefing on Freedom servers. It hasn't impacted me personally yet, but it HAS impacted players I have a lot of respect for, and in general the community's response has been downright toxic. Victim blaming and the same tired old PVP vs. PVE arguments. There was a time when I would've held up Wurm's community as a reason to get into the game. That reason is fading.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

I found this amusing. There's no competition for space on Xanadu, it's so enormous even with our higher population it can take hours just to bump into another person 

 

I actually have one little getaway spot on Xanadu.   I mostly wanted to experiment to see what Xanadu was like.  It's inland, on a remote lake with zero sea access and zero roads. It's a 15-20 minute run from one of the starter spawns, I tried to get as far out as I could. off the road system, and now I maintain and loan the rural offdeed cottages there as a "welcome back" spot for returning game veterans who want to explore Xanadu but need a "safe start zone" to explore from.  Got two returning players  there now, building carts tools  and supplies before they head out into unexplored areas for a new village.

 

I still had an individual  hike across the roadless countryside and put down a deed right alongside me that popped one of my buildings and turned my mine into an area I could no longer mine. They can't mine there either, since I own the door and they own the interior. There were ZERO roads, and as I said, its about a 15-20 minute run from the spawn town,  I am not sure how they even found me or why they chose that area,   there was no reason they could not place a deed either a few tiles farther off, or at least not with its perimeter over my building and mines. Up till then, I had never seen anyone else in that local. In fact, since they placed the deed five months ago and did a little initial terraforming, they have not been back into the game since. I never even had a chance to see them in local. We have never had any clashes. I guess they thought this was a "town" since I had some gravel paths and wood houses and prettied up the area. 

 

I did not complain of course since I did not have that mine/building ondeed, they were perfectly justified in doing this, but if they had only placed their deed 5 tiles more to the left, we could have coexisted happily. They chose not to,  I don't know what their reason was. We have never met. I don;t think they were deliberately trying to grief me, but why not move 5 tiles over?

 

Anyway this is why I don't allow roads built to any of my areas, why I do not want to live on Xanadu, and why I DO have extra huge buffer perimeters on my Indy deeds, because I always have people deed  right alongside me no matter how deep deep DEEP into the "boonies" I go.  Whatever.  It is kind of strange.  I know most of the time, they are just happy to find a neighbor and that's why they build right alongside me.   Out in the middle of No Place.  

Edited July 10, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[Outlaw 697]

I did not complain of course since I did not have that mine/building ondeed, they were perfectly justified in doing this, but if they had only placed their deed 5 tiles more to the left, we could have coexisted happily. They chose not to,  I don't know what their reason was. We have never met. I don;t think they were deliberately trying to grief me, but why not move 5 tiles over?

 

It can certainly be infuriating when people do this.

I had people come and build small shacks on the tiles adjacent to where my perimeter ended. They played a couple of days then I never saw them again...unfortunately the same can not be said about their shacks...I saw those every day and could do nothing about it.

 

I guess some people just aren't courteous enough to either ask permission first or just not do it in the first place.

At least if I was looking for somewhere to place a deed, I certainly wouldn't plonk it right on someone else's perimeter...considering that essentially blocks any future expansion in that direction if nothing else.

 

Just something you've gotta deal with in a public space I suppose.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

I think they are literally trying to be "friendly"  

 

"Oh look, a person living waaaaay out in the middle of nowhere!  No roads or anything!  I bet they are really lonely!   We can be  FRIENDS!!!"

[Clatius 455]

 ;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JlVqfC8-UI

Edited July 10, 2015 by Clatius

[Depends 220]

On Indy about a half dozen people planted in my local over the years my deed was there, one guy right up against my perimeter without ever knowing I was there.

It was partially my fault for doing everything I could to make the deed hard to notice, but for the most part once I'd talked to them they were decent people and we respected each other's areas. They all left over time though, I'd remove all the terraforming they'd done and return the area back to natural and the whole thing would repeat again.

 

The only people I've ever had issues with are long time players who move into an area and decide they will now run the place, all the people who were there years before them and co-existing peacefully be damned.

[Outlaw 697]

The only people I've ever had issues with are long time players who move into an area and decide they will now run the place, all the people who were there years before them and co-existing peacefully be damned.

 

That sucks, Depends.

[Corsan 199]

I'll list my current reasons for being on the verge of leaving...

 

1. Staff member's corruption/lack of doing anything about griefing/showing favoritism/covering up bad behavior and/or disallowing you from talking about it/Censoring you by simply just hiding your comments or muting you in-game/Doing things that effect the in-game economy and effect the market price but then deprive me of actually addressing the issue..thereby effecting the market price (In this case, massively driving the price of boats down. Knarrs, specifically. In the real world, if you did something like this it would be illegal and you'd be in jail, so you're basically supporting criminal behavior.)

 

2. Bug-fixing game 'features' that people cared about/quality of life stuff (Mooring Rope leading, Glancing through mine walls, and a few others.) while ignoring blaring holes in other things. (The mobs all up in the north, while I can drive around for over 2 hours in the south and maybe if I'm lucky find 5 mobs....can't even bring a cart full home anymore. This is the type of thing that would've taken whole servers offline/been fixed on most other games I've played, but they've ignored it for nearly a year now.) and generally focusing bugfixes on PvP rather than PvE (Who, I'm sorry to inform you is most of your playerbase. Just the 'less vocal' side.)

 

3. Staff AND players cracking jokes about player's concerns/writing them off as 'overzealous' or basically trying to demean the players or Reductio Ad Ridiculum (Reduce to Ridicule)/Reductio Ad Absurdum (Reduce to the Absurd) any argument/debate they disagree with.

 

4. PvP players ability to waltz all over PvE threads and basically cause them to be locked so as the issue is not dealt with and it falls away/becomes no longer an issue in people's eyes.

 

5. Game features that are so full of holes/bugs, and things that blatantly block you from even doing things. (For example, clay cannot be raised by leveling. I made a post/poll about it...and it was just ignored. The 'other way around it' is to do hours and hours of work that shouldn't be needed/throw probably something around the amount of 5-7K dirt off a mountainside just to fix one area.)

 

6. Scaring off some of the players I most enjoy reading. (Mordraug, Audrel, and quite a few others who have disappeared.)

 

I could keep going, but those are some of my current 'gripes'. I actually enjoy the game itself. Most of my posts look like I hate it/hate the people...but I've met/talked to many great folks on here from all over the world. Spent many hours just building up a couple deeds and making them look great. (One is gone, but the land lives on.) I've terraformed a few places into functioning places that were semi-inhospitable locales before I got there. (I'm not even finished with my current one, but I just kinda hit a lull where I can't continue my current castle because I was waiting for them to figure out whether they were giving us cart ramps INSIDE buildings. And don't really feel up to surface mining the rest of the mountain to salvage more plateau space. I kinda need to hire someone, but have no idea how they calculate surface mining + paying someone for it.) I'm basically just randomly skilling whatever I feel up to doing after basic maintenance (Grooming/Milking cows/Making cheese/Tending the farm.)...just did a pile of fishing the past few days with my x5 queue, and then used up most of my accrued SB cooking it all out/fileting it to hit 75 HFC...and then did another batch of milling/baking to raise the cooking/those skills a bit more yesterday. I'm just kinda getting to where I'm like...'Why should I keep paying for this when they disregard us?'

[Lolabelle 597]

I think the selling of toons is some peoples way of trying to make money.  The work a toon up, sell, then make another to work up.  So maybe people are not leaving but changing.

[Corsan 199]

I think they are literally trying to be "friendly"

 

"Oh look, a person living waaaaay out in the middle of nowhere!  No roads or anything!  I bet they are really lonely!   We can be  FRIENDS!!!"

 

Actually, from what you've said...it appears most of this is one-sided/in your head.

 

I actually started off 'moving in' next to someone like this very early on (Which eventually caused major drama)...I moved in between a max-size deed and another deed that was diagonal to it...I was basically in between their perimeters on a coastline. I wasn't expecting to be there permanently, I just setup a little 'ranch' there to get some skilling done/get my feet under me...so I could eventually move on. I'd even talked to all the 'current' neighbors I could find. (The max size deed's owner was literally just nowhere to be found the whole time I played...he'd quit and his alliance members were maintaining it..I later found out.) The other diagonal deed's owner...just hadn't happened to login...and I'd asked the deed owner right next to it...who was in the alliance with said person if it was "OK" if I moved in over in that area...and they'd said it was fine. The drama all started when that person who owned that diagonal deed logged in and showed up and started throwing a tizzy about my being beside them.

 

See, the problem is...when you own about 7 DEEDS...you can't also be neighborly because you're not online/around to answer or talk to people...then people get angry because so and so moved in beside them (In my case, so I could keep vaguely safe by running mobs to the neighbor's templars.) People can't have it 'both ways'. Either you're active in an area, and can 'have a say' or you're not active in an area and can't really complain about it. (And legitimately couldn't anyway because I wasn't in a perimeter/on a deed...I was in the 'free zone' that was 'deed it or lose it'.)

 

Edit to add : Also, if I'd been approached with a nice attitude, I probably would've ended up in their alliance...it goes to show that how you treat people is often how you end up being treated in return...

Edited July 10, 2015 by Corsan

[Edge 141]

I just came back so you're wrong!

[Clatius 455]

Actually, from what you've said...it appears most of this is one-sided/in your head.

 

I actually started off 'moving in' next to someone like this very early on (Which eventually caused major drama)...I moved in between a max-size deed and another deed that was diagonal to it...I was basically in between their perimeters on a coastline. I wasn't expecting to be there permanently, I just setup a little 'ranch' there to get some skilling done/get my feet under me...so I could eventually move on. I'd even talked to all the 'current' neighbors I could find. (The max size deed's owner was literally just nowhere to be found the whole time I played...he'd quit and his alliance members were maintaining it..I later found out.) The other diagonal deed's owner...just hadn't happened to login...and I'd asked the deed owner right next to it...who was in the alliance with said person if it was "OK" if I moved in over in that area...and they'd said it was fine. The drama all started when that person who owned that diagonal deed logged in and showed up and started throwing a tizzy about my being beside them.

 

See, the problem is...when you own about 7 DEEDS...you can't also be neighborly because you're not online/around to answer or talk to people...then people get angry because so and so moved in beside them (In my case, so I could keep vaguely safe by running mobs to the neighbor's templars.) People can't have it 'both ways'. Either you're active in an area, and can 'have a say' or you're not active in an area and can't really complain about it. (And legitimately couldn't anyway because I wasn't in a perimeter/on a deed...I was in the 'free zone' that was 'deed it or lose it'.)

 

Edit to add : Also, if I'd been approached with a nice attitude, I probably would've ended up in their alliance...it goes to show that how you treat people is often how you end up being treated in return...

 

You missed Brash's point. The deed wasn't someplace where it was crowded like you've explained in your post. It was out in the middle of no where not even on a coast. There are literally tens of thousands of empty tiles where someone could put up a deed on Xan without having a neighbor. This person chose to set up in the middle of the wilderness right next to Brash. 

 

Unless you are saying they were not trying to be friendly. 

Edited July 10, 2015 by Clatius