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Journeya

Not having pure PvE HURTS Wurm!

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This is to all the "Deed it or loose it" people out there.
 

As another griefer is in the limelight I can't help but wonder how we can call the freedom servers PvE at all?

 

I appreciate there are mechanics to help keep you safe, but the whole aspect of PvE is that you SHOULD be safe from other players, unless you CHOOSE not to be. Safety should be given, PvPish elements should be something you can choose. Attacking the PvEers or calling them stupid for not securing their items is a little like a cop telling a ###### victim that perhaps she shouldnt have had that drink, or dressed the way she did, or done whatever it is that put her in a vulnerable position. The rapist, or in Wurm, the griefer, SHOULD get punished no matter what. Thats how it works all over in life - you don't get a green card because "they were too stupid to protect themselves". What kind of attitude is that? Is it ok for someone to steal someones belongings because they didn't lock their door in real life? Or left a window open? Or if I just got off my bike to park it and am fiddling with the wire for locking it, is it okay for someone to steal my bike right in front of me, because I didn't secure it properly? If someone follows me around and harasses me and vandalizes my house, car, yard or family members, it would not be allowed. In Wurm however, its all good -_-

Nowhere in a civilized society do we allow bad behavior and blame the victim. What is up with the Wurm society?


Why am I writing this? Well, right now I am frankly upset because it just came to my attention that one of my neighbors actually left the game because of one of these douchebag players! (I currently have this emotionally unstable neighbor who has lashed out at my community constantly and whom the GMs told me to just ignore). So, because the GMs uses soft gloves on an immature player who mistreats his community, our community has lost out on at least one GREAT and highly active neighbor whom would have given so much more to the community. Instead, I have an angry psycho who doesn't even enjoy the game, whom I can't talk to, whom I have to WARN everyone about when they come to live in this area. I am trying to run a newbie place, and the image I have to paint of people is that the community sucks - "The Wurm community will steal from you, it will kill your animals, it will do whatever it can to screw you over, and there is no one that gives a damn about them doing this to you!". What kind of impression does that make on people?

I would leave if I had a better alternative - which I do not, at the moment anyway. But these soft glove methods are really bothersome, and I believe it has a negative impact! Your fear of dealing with a few bad seeds poisons the whole community and drives decent people away! Please, reconsider your approach.. The game itself has a strong appeal, but when the community is more or less based on anarchy, it falls apart..

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i would like to see things change too,but sadly people have been complaining about this since they added pve to wurm.


 


apparently as long as the code its share the way is it now,they cant do things like locks included by default on everything or just locks not exisiting at all and everything being safe


Edited by Tpikol

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I've been told by FMs to "just ignore" and "put on ignore" when I've gotten hostile private messages, as if it's somehow going to make the situation any better. As if it's somehow MY fault for getting angry PMs because I haven't limited myself to only seeing the people that I want to see. The slack in griefer moderation isn't limited to the game itself it seems.


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Well, that should be the work of moderators and GMs - to moderate the community - including the in game one. If the code doesnt support it, cover up for it by clear rules and appropriate actions. Bad behavior should be dealt with and not ignored... Dont know if they are understaffed, or just really dont believe there is any value in correcting bad behaviors?


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Nowhere in a civilized society do we allow bad behavior and blame the victim. What is up with the Wurm society?

 

 

Do you live in a western society? lol? if not please illuminate which society you live in where this doesnt happen I would love to pack my bags and move there.

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But gray area that was rampant with "Legal Enclosures" was removed with "Deed It or Lose It."  It's now solidly black and white, cut and dry, obvious that anything done to you is your fault, even if it's on your deed because we have a thoroughly explained "Lock It or Lose It," "Fence It or Lose It," "Don't KoS on a highway because the warning they get and time to evacuate does not apply to two bricks stuck to the dirt near/on your deed because two bricks override 'Deed It or Lose It' even though no one paid for all those tiles that they are controlling but it's nothing like a Freeloading Legal Enclosure gobbling up deedable land or anything" bunch of people who want their cake and eat it too with PvP abilities on PvE where PvE can't do a damn thing to stop it because returning the favor is intentional and purely griefing and there are little or no consequences for being a dirtbag.


 


Did I miss something?


 


PS: I did miss something. KoS is nothing to write home about because guards and templars have been so nerfed that they can't even walk let alone kill anything that a PvE player might actually need protection from.


Edited by Audrel
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this is just horrible ... we need a Pure PVE server ..


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I'm confused as to what you mean. Can you give specific technical things you would want implemented to make it a "pure pve server"? Do you want it to be impossible for anyone to pick up an item if you drop it anywhere in the world? Do you want it to be impossible for anyone to cut down a tree you planted anywhere in the world?


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Right now? I'd settle for a PvE only forum, where having access to Chaos/Epic/Challenge forums immediately excludes access.


 


Fair is fair.


Edited by Dairuka
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Right now? I'd settle for a PvE only forum, where having access to Chaos/Epic/Challenge forums immediately excludes access.

Fair is fair.

There's one for each PvE server. Doesn't really seem fair to exclude PvP players from those though, since there are a lot of players who play on both Chaos and Freedom for example. Edited by Firestarter
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There's one for each PvE server. Doesn't really seem fair to exclude PvP players from those though, since there are a lot of plaeyrs who play on both Chaos and Freedom for example.

 

Hence the request for one that does. Equality isn't a bad thing.

 

I don't see why Freedomers who have no interest in PvP'ing have to go through PvP scrutiny every time they want to air out a grievance, when the PvP crowd made the exact same argument as I'm making now and got their way already. At the very least, it'd give Freedomers a place to post their, "This person stole from me." threads without clogging up the Town Square.

Edited by Dairuka
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lol Dairuka

 

Edge, as for what I mean, I want there to be consequences when its obvious you are trying to be a jerk. Looting an abandoned deed? Not jerky, just opportunist. Killing peoples animals just because they accidentally left it unlocked? Jerk move. Stealing a cart right in front of someone, or with "fat" animals hitched to it are jerk moves. I think its pretty clear what is a jerk move or not to be honest. If your intent is to screw someone over its a jerk move. If you are selfish and do something that you know will probably hurt someone or piss them of, you are a jerk. Just as I didn't get to build a wall with entrance huts to my annoying neighbor, because it counted as griefing him - he shouldn't get to go around harassing us however he can. If all you want to do is screw people over, go to a PvP server where other like minded people are hiding.

And no, Demondan, that is not how the western world works. If you do lack evidence you have to free people that might be guilty, sure - but if you got evidence it doesnt matter you didnt take enough "precautions" - a crime is a crime, a victim is a victim.

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Hence the request for one that does. Equality isn't a bad thing.

I don't see why Freedomers who have no interest in PvP'ing have to go through PvP scrutiny every time they want to air out a grievance, when the PvP crowd made the exact same argument as I'm making now and got their way already. At the very least, it'd give Freedomers a place to post their, "This person stole from me." threads without clogging up the Town Square.

I see where you're coming from with this, so I'd suggest having that forum work like the Chaos / Epic forums, where you need to have your account linked to post in them.

However, it would be possible to have access to both forums, to keep it fair for those who do play both PvE and PvP.

Edited by Firestarter
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I see where you're coming from with this, so I'd suggest having that forum work like the Chaos / Epic forums, where you need to have your account linked to post in them.

 

Linking to one excludes you from the other. 

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We don't need a 'pure pve server' (whatever that means).


 


We just need it so the default permissions block access to everyone and then you decide from there who should be allowed access.


That solves everything.


 


The only reason these past thefts/horse killings happened was due to the wrong permissions being set, or the wrong people being trusted. (In the case of trust, then that's just too bad, that's a risk you take when you trust someone. It wouldn't be trust otherwise)


Edited by Outlaw
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lol Dairuka

 

Edge, as for what I mean, I want there to be consequences when its obvious you are trying to be a jerk. Looting an abandoned deed? Not jerky, just opportunist. Killing peoples animals just because they accidentally left it unlocked? Jerk move. Stealing a cart right in front of someone, or with "fat" animals hitched to it are jerk moves. I think its pretty clear what is a jerk move or not to be honest. If your intent is to screw someone over its a jerk move. If you are selfish and do something that you know will probably hurt someone or piss them of, you are a jerk. Just as I didn't get to build a wall with entrance huts to my annoying neighbor, because it counted as griefing him - he shouldn't get to go around harassing us however he can. If all you want to do is screw people over, go to a PvP server where other like minded people are hiding.

And no, Demondan, that is not how the western world works. If you do lack evidence you have to free people that might be guilty, sure - but if you got evidence it doesnt matter you didnt take enough "precautions" - a crime is a crime, a victim is a victim.

 

Those are judgement calls about the intentions of the player, and the opposite of obvious or pretty clear. . A player killing horses might just be looking for leather, building a house in a bad place for you might be inconsiderate but can be completely innocent or out of ignorance. It would require admins to track all players. Seems ridiculous and impossible

Edited by Edge

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Those are judgement calls about the intentions of the player, and the opposite of obvious or pretty clear. . A player killing horses might just be looking for leather, building a house in a bad place for you might be inconsiderate but can be completely innocent or out of ignorance. It would require admins to track all players. Seems ridiculous and impossible

 

Yes, because killing 70 horses on a deed is "looking for leather." 

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Please stop lumping in the "community" at large because of a TINY minority of players and isolated incidents.  That's really not cool.


 


And slagging the GM's because you left a fence unlocked or didn't lock your cart, that's really not cool.  You can't blatantly ignore game mechanics then scream you got "PVP on a PVE server".

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If you take out insurance for burglary but your stuff was stolen by theft, then you didn't take the correct precautions and aren't covered. Much like deed it or lose it. The victim didn't take the correct precautions to stop thievery happen. The tools are there to stop it from happening.

Just my two cents about that comment you made. Victims are blamed.

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Edit: You know what? Who gives a crap. Knock yourselves out. When enough people quit, you all won't have anything left to steal and no one left to harass but each other.


Edited by Audrel
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Just as I didn't get to build a wall with entrance huts to my annoying neighbor, because it counted as griefing him - he shouldn't get to go around harassing us however he can.

 

Wait. Can you explain this? Where couldn't you build a wall with entrance huts?

 

Here are things that surround my deeds, that my neighbors were allowed to build on a griefing spree, and they still exist.

 

This WAS a road up from the bay:

 

WasARoad_zpsnddx94do.jpg

 

 

This was a road through the forest:

 

RoadDugUp_zpss8o20tjf.jpg

 

 

The marble here is the road to my front door, now blocked off:

 

OK-JustOneLane_zpsda9xkccu.jpg

 

 

The road up to my nephew's deed was blocked, and these walls and buildings built:

 

everyAccessPoint_zpsyspapujl.png

 

 

A road from one deed to another destroyed and blocked off:

 

DugUpAndWalled_zpsk5g0j20e.png

 

 

Road covered as we built it to get around the new blocks:

 

BarrierWalls_zpskzx1oq8e.jpg

 

Road all walled off:

 

AlwaysNegative_zps4ozlyfzm.png

 

 

I have probably ten more pictures I could show but photobucket is acting up. What distresses me is applying rules differently in similar circumstances, depending on which party you are more charmed with. This game requires too much of a time/money investment for it to be ok for jerks to freely grief, if you're playing in a PvE environment. The hush-hush rule too about who and what is happening with discipline decisions, I don't see how that makes any sense. The rules should be clear and evenly applied, and the outcomes should not be a secret.

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Wait. Can you explain this? Where couldn't you build a wall with entrance huts?

 

Here are things that surround my deeds, that my neighbors were allowed to build on a griefing spree, and they still exist.

 

This WAS a road up from the bay:

 

WasARoad_zpsnddx94do.jpg

 

 

This was a road through the forest:

 

RoadDugUp_zpss8o20tjf.jpg

 

 

The marble here is the road to my front door, now blocked off:

 

OK-JustOneLane_zpsda9xkccu.jpg

 

 

The road up to my nephew's deed was blocked, and these walls and buildings built:

 

everyAccessPoint_zpsyspapujl.png

 

 

A road from one deed to another destroyed and blocked off:

 

DugUpAndWalled_zpsk5g0j20e.png

 

 

Road covered as we built it to get around the new blocks:

 

BarrierWalls_zpskzx1oq8e.jpg

 

Road all walled off:

 

AlwaysNegative_zps4ozlyfzm.png

 

 

I have probably ten more pictures I could show but photobucket is acting up. What distresses me is applying rules differently in similar circumstances, depending on which party you are more charmed with. This game requires too much of a time/money investment for it to be ok for jerks to freely grief, if you're playing in a PvE environment. The hush-hush rule too about who and what is happening with discipline decisions, I don't see how that makes any sense. The rules should be clear and evenly applied, and the outcomes should not be a secret.

This was once a beautiful area in it's more raw state and loved to visit as such.  It is a shame yet very understandable give the slew of things that have happened in that area grief wise why it has to then be forcibly walled this way.  Gives me sad face about the implications an fallout. To use someone elses' quite "...and this is why we can't have nice things"  Namaste Lorrainej

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This was once a beautiful area in it's more raw state and loved to visit as such.  It is a shame yet very understandable give the slew of things that have happened in that area grief wise why it has to then be forcibly walled this way.  Gives me sad face about the implications an fallout. To use someone elses' quite "...and this is why we can't have nice things"  Namaste Lorrainej

 

I didn't wall this up, the griefers did it to be spiteful. The area is not beautiful like it once was; only stuff on deed looks good. And if you don't know the area well, it's impossible to navigate.

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I appreciate there are mechanics to help keep you safe, but the whole aspect of PvE is that you SHOULD be safe from other players, unless you CHOOSE not to be.

Almost all the recent problems occurred when players have chosen not to be safe e.g. through deed settings. They may not have intended to but the game can’t tell the difference.

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