Not having pure PvE HURTS Wurm!

[Proximo 402]

INB4 'Would eat up too many resources.'

 

The thing is though, the game already tracks all of that.  I don't think it would use up any extra resources at all.

[Cista 428]

Never trust anyone

 

What you maybe do not realise is that just as there can be no betrayal without permission, neither can there be acts trust if there is no risk of betrayal.

If you could run to the GMs like a 4-year old after every fallout with your friends, then you would maybe not have to trust them. But in truth it would be impossible for GMs to solve those cases where friends fall out. 

 

I am very happy that I have friends in Wurm that I can trust blindly, and that they likewise trust me with their things. But if we did not have the responsibility of looking after our own things, if we did not have the permission system and the abilities to share *at our own risk*, then there would be no acts of trust, and we would have a much poorer game world.

[Bachus 462]

What you maybe do not realise is that just as there can be no betrayal without permission, neither can there be acts trust if there is no risk of betrayal.

If you could run to the GMs like a 4-year old after every fallout with your friends, then you would maybe not have to trust them. But in truth it would be impossible for GMs to solve those cases where friends fall out. 

 

I am very happy that I have friends in Wurm that I can trust blindly, and that they likewise trust me with their things. But if we did not have the responsibility of looking after our own things, if we did not have the permission system and the abilities to share *at our own risk*, then there would be no acts of trust, and we would have a much poorer game world.

You cut out the part where I was replying to the standard reply of "wall everything and allow nothing and you will be safe".

Two thirds of my deed is open to allow others to get to the marina where they park boats and I have a community temple, markethouse, and Inn with 'troll barier' houses to protect passers-by.

Walling everything in is not my playstyle and I do not want to see it become the only option in Wurm.

[Syntrix 58]

Never going to happen because Rolf wants wurm to have pvp, he always has. That is why the game has been developed to allow for theft on the pve servers

Its not about what we want, its about what Rolf wants.

What we want is a just a side note.

 

The sheer.. entitlement some of the people in this thread have was giving me a good chuckle at work today, until I hit this gem.  This.. personifies the entitlement perfectly.

 

I know you were trying to be snarky, but you hit it on the M'F' head.  This IS a game about what Rolf wants.  That's what game devs do, create something they want, something they feel passion for, they release it and the market decides.

 

The INSTANT you start thinking a game dev should make changes because it's what you want.. you are overstepping your bounds, big time.  Make suggestions, sure, but once you start playing the "It's not what we want, it's what Rolf wants" card.. NO !  You don't get to tell Rolf "How DARE you not make your game the way I want, because blah blah blah".. because it's not your @%@# game.  Regardless if you are paying for it, Rolf doesn't owe ANY of us anything beyond what premium entails.

 

Not that it isn't insanely entertaining to see the same couple of people parrot the same agendas in every thread, but this sort of entitlement is getting out of hand, even for the internet.  If the game is really that terrible for you, don't play.  Please.

[Corsan 199]

He's not. He just posted about how he's taking a break again. (He only recently came back too.)

 

One of my few neighbors in the far southeast of Xan and he just went back on hiatus. He's going to check back in during winter-time. I'm guessing if things still haven't changed by then he probably just will quit.

 

Way to go on that player retention biz. *rolls eyes*

[Audrel 2,223]

The sheer.. entitlement some of the people in this thread have was giving me a good chuckle at work today, until I hit this gem.  This.. personifies the entitlement perfectly.

 

I know you were trying to be snarky, but you hit it on the M'F' head.  This IS a game about what Rolf wants.  That's what game devs do, create something they want, something they feel passion for, they release it and the market decides.

 

The INSTANT you start thinking a game dev should make changes because it's what you want.. you are overstepping your bounds, big time.  Make suggestions, sure, but once you start playing the "It's not what we want, it's what Rolf wants" card.. NO ######!  You don't get to tell Rolf "How DARE you not make your game the way I want, because blah blah blah".. because it's not your @%@# game.  Regardless if you are paying for it, Rolf doesn't owe ANY of us anything beyond what premium entails.

 

Not that it isn't insanely entertaining to see the same couple of people parrot the same agendas in every thread, but this sort of entitlement is getting out of hand, even for the internet.  If the game is really that terrible for you, don't play.  Please.

 

Have a look at the Main Page.

Wurm Online is the MMORPG where the players are in charge! Developed around the idea of player influence, it remains one of the only Sandbox MMOs worthy of the term.

 

They are leaving. Just over 1000 less than played this time last summer. You do also know a dev got cut lose this spring for financial reasons? Week 10 News. So just keep on urging people to leave. You're doing the game a great service.

[Steeloxide 146]

snip

Uhm... what? Snarky? I suspect you think I was being sarcastic when I was not. You do realize I was saying the same thing you are.

Wurm is Rolfs baby, his lifes work. HIS WORLD. He will do with it what he wants. Just as anyone else would with their own life work.

We are like peasants who have been graciously invited to live in a kings castle, and upon arriving all we do is tell him how much better it could be. We should count ourselves lucky the king still lets people in for feasts and even listens to what we have to say!

All In all I am very appreciative of what rolf and team have created for us and that they have interest in listning to what we have to say. And I think most people feel that way.

I stand by my original point aswell,

Pvp will always be around in some form on freedom, because that's what Rolf wanted from the beginning.

Personally I think freedom would be pretty boring if there was no theft/chaos/dueling/KoSing.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Steeloxide

[Proximo 402]

You cut out the part where I was replying to the standard reply of "wall everything and allow nothing and you will be safe".

Two thirds of my deed is open to allow others to get to the marina where they park boats and I have a community temple, markethouse, and Inn with 'troll barier' houses to protect passers-by.

Walling everything in is not my playstyle and I do not want to see it become the only option in Wurm.

 

You can't have complete freedom while having complete safety from risk.  That's what people are trying to point out.

 

Mankind hasn't ONCE achieved such a state in any fashion since the dawn of history.  So I think we can forgive the game Developers for not figuring that out.

 

Your post is a perfect example of how flexible and powerful Wurm's permission management is.  I seriously doubt you would leave such a large portion of your deed open to the public if you were able to be greifed left and right.

[demondan 1,865]

If you think im trolling and you think i dont pve, which is what i only do, then you are very delusional and dont want to face the truth.

[Twinsen 350]

In summary, unlocked large carts are a PvP element in the game. Please also remove small carts from the pure pve server while we're at it. They're a PvP element too.

[MisterTeddy 284]

Wurm is Rolfs baby, his lifes work. HIS WORLD. He will do with it what he wants. Just as anyone else would with their own life work.

 

which is why he doesn't play it

 

k

 

yeah, I agree he wants pvp, problem is he doesn't know the first thing about game balance; we still have dominant strategies up the wazoo, most options are completely unviable, Rolf is extremely narrow-minded in his use of balancing factors, he listens to whiners too much, etc. etc. etc.

 

using armor as an example, currently it is lolbalanced by damage reduction, movement speed, glance rate, and archery / spell penalty, only the former two actually being relevant in choosing armor because the latter two have much less impact; also there are no roles for the different armors for different play styles and no tiers of varying effectiveness, thus there is a clear hierarchy of best to worst (scale > glimmer / seryll plate > drake > addy plate> steel plate > chain > studded > leather > cloth) and everything below steel plate is completely unviable; there is also a similar hierarchy for med paths, anything other than regular shoot option doesn't work for bows (you miss consistently at two tiles with a shortbow on a mob), dual wield doesn't work, etc.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Buy more guards for Kos.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

The present "World" seems to favor forgiving the criminal and making everyone else adjust their way of living to accommodate the criminal, I don't buy into to that way of thinking for a second. I won't make excuses for those who fail to "play nice"... Punish the criminal decisively and leave the law abiding People alone. The Staff of Wurm could do just that and not have it lessen our freedom of choice or action ingame, I am certain of that.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

I think it's going to require that the mods step up their game and hand out proper punishments ((temp)bans, etc) for anything to really change.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

I believe SirLaw was in the wrong and should be punished for griefing.  However the incident was still preventable, and I shouldn't be harassed by pointing that out.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

The INSTANT you start thinking a game dev should make changes because it's what you want.. you are overstepping your bounds, big time.  Make suggestions, sure, but once you start playing the "It's not what we want, it's what Rolf wants" card.. NO ######!  You don't get to tell Rolf "How DARE you not make your game the way I want, because blah blah blah".. because it's not your @%@# game.  Regardless if you are paying for it, Rolf doesn't owe ANY of us anything beyond what premium entails.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

We are like peasants who have been graciously invited to live in a kings castle, and upon arriving all we do is tell him how much better it could be. We should count ourselves lucky the king still lets people in for feasts and even listens to what we have to say!

[Mordraug 2,542]

"It's ROLF'S game, we're just guests!  We play because he's so kind to let us onto his servers!"

 

WRONG

 

You pay fixed fees for specific services, you're a CUSTOMER.  And what's advertised to the new player vs reality... deceptive.

[FranktheTank 1,901]

lets just make wurm single player! That should solve all the issues.

[Zundy 99]

The sheer.. entitlement

 

God I hate it when that word is used wrong. God damn Mass Effect....

[geode 292]

Uhm... what? Snarky? I suspect you think I was being sarcastic when I was not. You do realize I was saying the same thing you are.

Wurm is Rolfs baby, his lifes work. HIS WORLD. He will do with it what he wants. Just as anyone else would with their own life work.

We are like peasants who have been graciously invited to live in a kings castle, and upon arriving all we do is tell him how much better it could be. We should count ourselves lucky the king still lets people in for feasts and even listens to what we have to say!

All In all I am very appreciative of what rolf and team have created for us and that they have interest in listning to what we have to say. And I think most people feel that way.

I stand by my original point aswell,

Pvp will always be around in some form on freedom, because that's what Rolf wanted from the beginning.

Personally I think freedom would be pretty boring if there was no theft/chaos/dueling/KoSing.

 

Peasants? I think You need to get your head out of the role play.

 

We are Customers and Wurm is a Service. We pay for this Service, which is access to the game world, the game.... but it is still a business relationship. It's not a Fiefdom. If I as a Customer don't like this Service I can stop being a Customer, my choice. If Rolf doesn't want to have me as a Customer He can stop providing the Service to me by whatever means He chooses, his choice. Standard business relationship.

Edited July 11, 2015 by geode

[geode 292]

This is the absolute truth. If asshats got punished, the word would get out, and then the behavior would drop drastically. At that point, only true loons would be doing the grieifing, and it would take all of two seconds to sort things out. Right now GMs hear of griefing, listen to the sides, "investigate"...

 

Since there's no punishment for acting badly, people in a bad mood sometimes act out. If they knew their bad mood would lead to x, they'd exercise more restraint, so there would be less incidents to investigate.

 

The whole "veil of secrecy" thing about how incidents are resolved leads to all of this.

 

 

Agreed on the Secrecy part. The deterrent against crime that punishment provides is lost when the punishment is not made public.

[Proximo 402]

I hope you don't feel I've been harassing you. I agree it could have been preventable, if I had just not cared about access to the tar. These neighbors are really nice to me, and I wanted to do it. All of my neighbors on that side are wonderful.

 

But!

 

Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out (griefing)

Definition: Activities that are not constructive and with deliberate intent to do harm to others.

A ) You may not block access to deeds, merchants, or structures not belonging to you.

B ) You may not call guards to kill penned animals on deeds you are not a citizen of. (They ain't hurting you)

 

 

Was killing EVERY horse "playing nice"? Was it constructive to the game to kill every horse on a deed? He admitted in local he knew it was wrong, and he had the deliberate intent of doing it. And since he felt there would be no repercussion, he did it.

 

I had, and have, no intention of walling up that deed as I've done on my other deeds. I'm not going to invest the time and money into that. Someone had made that deed, and when he moved to another server, he mentioned to me that he was moving on. He had already built pens, leveled out land, had a nice huge oil barrel left there, and I decided to re-deed it. I paid the server for the use of it, and put my horses there. (I did pay someone to erect a tower because it's in the total boonies.) I am not going to pay beyond the deed fees to have another safe deed. I'll drop it before I do. So, either the rule against deliberate intent to do harm kicks in, or it's just not worth it to me to pay the fee. It doesn't feel good to know I'm investing money to play alongside this type of character.

 

 

No, not you.  You've been cool considering what happened.

 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.  SirLaw absolutely should be punished, I've never thought otherwise.  Frankly I don't think this game needs his type and I hope he gets banned or at least...I dunno, something.

 

If you refuse to protect your deed so others can access the tar, I respect that.  But you are knowingly taking a risk in that you are trusting other players to "play nice" and to not take advantage of your kindness.

 

 

Don't say there is PvE in the game then. Say straight up that this is a game of Marketplace and PvP. Don't lure me in, say that:

 

I just don't see how the game is flawed or you were forced into a "PVP" situation over this.  The devs offered you the "PVE" option, but you just didn't take it.  Deep down you must have known what SirLaw did was possible, you just didn't think someone would actually do it.  But nobody tricked you or lied to you about what Wurm is.

 

But it seems like I can't condemn what SirLaw did without also condemning the game.  I don't see why this position has been met with such...hostility.  But I hope you and I can be cordial, or even be friends, despite my opinion on the state of Wurm's PVE.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Deep down you must have known what SirLaw did was possible, you just didn't think someone would actually do it.  But nobody tricked you or lied to you about what Wurm is.

 

But it seems like I can't condemn what SirLaw did without also condemning the game.  I don't see why this position has been met with such...hostility.  But I hope you and I can be cordial, or even be friends, despite my opinion on the state of Wurm's PVE.

 

I'm fine with how you've expressed your opinion. I think people end up arguing because we're not talking about exactly the same thing. I agree I don't want to restrict interaction, etc. and I totally get your points. My bottom line is I think when someone goes apeshit like that, there have to be repercussions handed down by the rulemakers. And the rules have to be evenly applied, and transparent. We both agree the permissions are confusing. Hopefully that's changing.

[Neem 22]

TLDR: I don't blame the dev's for lack of perms or lack of response when it comes to griefers. This game like all PVP based PVE games failed at launch when they attracted the griefers to the community. I just won't be playing anymore until these issues get resolved. And regret buying premium time by the year...