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LorraineJ

SirLaw - tell us all why you killed all my horses

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Even though "attack citizens" was NOT allowed, if your horses were not branded, they were NOT "citizens", therefore any passers by could have killed them. Any branded animal is a citizen, any not branded animal is a non-citizen; branding makes that huge difference between life and death ...

 

I don't know where you come up with this stuff but I find no indication that branding horses makes them become "citizens" of that deed. Furthermore, LorraineJ did not state in her OP that "attack non-citzens" was not allowed on that deed but rather asked in a further post that if that were not being allowed would it have prevented the killing of all those horses.

 

The answer then is "yes", it would have prevented others from killing those horses and that is what effects this, without them being branded having anything to do with it as you state. Rather than giving inaccurate information with the indication of some authority on the subject I suggest you go check this out with an alt and you will find that leaving blank (not x'd) that "attack non-citizens" box will prevent any animals from being attacked by others with no branding required on them to make it effective.

 

Now I don't condone what this jerk did in any way, it is just that it is important to provide the proper information to others as to how to *prevent* this from happening to them as well, which the deed settings do provide, no branding of animals required.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes

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Guys. Can we please quit with the politics in here? Someone from Chaos griefed someone on Freedom by killing her horses. That's what this topic is about. All these hidden agendas about other stuff regarding the kingdoms should be left elsewhere in my opinion.

 

This is about someone that killed horses. Origin server matters not.

 

I'd prefer this topic be closed... I don't think any more good will come from it.

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This is about someone that killed horses. Origin server matters not.

 

I'd prefer this topic be closed... I don't think any more good will come from it.

 

The topic is about whatever the op has posted in the original post. While I agree with you that the original server shouldn't matter, the op made it matter.

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The topic is about whatever the op has posted in the original post. While I agree with you that the original server shouldn't matter, the op made it matter.

 

The culprit only mentioned Chaos to get people riled up.

 

He's been very successful in his attempts to sow unrest, get people worked up, and to get attention. Hence why I feel this thread should be locked sooner than later.

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I don't know where you come up with this stuff but I find no indication that branding horses makes them become "citizens" of that deed. Furthermore, LorraineJ did not state in her OP that "attack non-citzens" was not allowed on that deed but rather asked in a further post that if that were x'd as not being allowed would it have prevented the killing of all those horses.

 

The answer then is "yes", it would have prevented others from killing those horses and that is what effects this, without them being branded having anything to do with it as you state. Rather than giving inaccurate information with the indication of some authority on the subject I suggest you go check this out with an alt and you will find that making an x in that "attack non-citizens" box will prevent any animals from being attacked by others with no branding required on them to make it effective.

 

Now I don't condone what this jerk did in any way, it is just that it is important to provide the proper information to others as to how to *prevent* this from happening to them as well, which the deed settings do provide, no branding of animals required.

 

=Ayes=

 

Thing is, I did check it with an alt couple months ago; branded horses were protected from being attacked, when "attacking citizens" was disallowed, and "attacking non-citizens" was allowed. My bad I didn't check it again before posting, but anyway.

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Lorraine, unfortunately I just finished testing this on the test server; even branded animals can be attacked with non citizens allowed

 

Thing is, I did check it with an alt couple months ago; branded horses were protected from being attacked, when "attacking citizens" was disallowed, and "attacking non-citizens" was allowed. My bad I didn't check it again before posting, but anyway.

 

Evening, check the post above yours. The simple version of all this is to prevent other players from attacking non-aggressive animals on a deed all that is necessary to do is to just leave un-x'ed (blank) the box of "attack non-citizens", which works with no branding of them required.

 

(Upon reading my other post I see that I stated to x this box which is incorrect, so I have modified that.)

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Ayes

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Maybe for weaponskill?

Lorena, killing 70 of someone's horses for weaponskill would be like trashing somebody's new Lexus because you wanted the knob off of their radio...

Doesn't mean it isn't true but sure as heck isn't a reasonable excuse.

Edited by Kyleshandra

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What bothers me about this is the fact that this game has separate pvp and pve and yet the douchbags have the ability to bring their toons to pve and do crap like this. Lets make the two truly separate and force people to have separate toons for each.

 It wont change the true nature of the degenerate but at least he couldn't take his toon off to pvp and hide like the coward he is.

 

How would this change anything?   You could still do the same thing even with a mid-low level toon.    The Templars are absolutely worthless to actually stop anyone regardless of skill level.  

 

So basically let me get this straight... the permissions weren't set right, and someone killed a ton of horses.   Yea, I don't like that either, and I'm very disappointed in Sirlaw, as it was me who was one of his orignal sponsors, but really it doesn't matter if it's a Chaos player or not.  The fact he happened to be in a Chaos kingdom has no bearing on the issue.    The problem was the result of the deed holder, and Sirlaw's individual decision.      

 

If it would have been another freedom player, you would see what I've seen in the last four or five "this guy is a thief" threads, where there is nothing anyone can do about it, often because the deed holders didn't set something right. In all those threads it didn't need to be a PvP player (and usually wasn't).   I'm not blaming the deed holders, but their lack of action did contribute to the issues in many cases.  I do think there should be better explanations for each permissions, so people know exactly what could happen if they don't set something right.     The permission system is a mess anyways and needs some better clarification.

 

That said, to the owner of the horses, just PM me whenever you need anything when I'm on the Freedom servers, I can do 90QL bowery, woodcutting and carpentry, and I'd be glad to help out any way I can.    The same goes for anyone else in the owner's alliance that was affected by the loss of the horses.   

Edited by Battlepaw

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This thread absolutely should not be locked.  Why does that always happen?  Someone brings up a a legitimate issue, but the thread gets locked and buried because a few bad posts gets made.  It's just too easy for people to troll threads and get them locked on here!  Especially when forum accounts and game accounts aren't linked and it could be done intentionally to silence discussion.


 


Having all your horses killed is bad enough.  Having the thread about it locked through no fault of your own is the wrong way to moderate imo.  First, remove posts.  Then issue forum account bans.  Then, and only then, if the discussion continues to be out of control should a thread be locked. 


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It's hard for me to see blame with a particular group, when it was the act of one individual. I would have greatly appreciated if his friends had talked him out of it, but ultimately they could not control him. I think what is really needed is for people to know there will be repercussions for this kind of griefing. Player groups can't really do that. He kept repeating in local he knew he could do this and have nothing happen. If a person's own conscience doesn't stop them from nasty acts, there has to be some form of protection by the structure around them.

Awe but remember he said his friends on chaos was laughing about it as he was doing it which makes them all accomplices to the ordeal. Who are his friends? We all know who is friends are so does all of MR. MR has admitted he did it! . If i was a leader of a kingdom over on chaos one my people had done this to you. I would kick them from my kingdom, I would contact you personally myself and do the right thing myself and compensate you! Its the right thing to do!

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I'm really surprised and glad to see that MR is at least taking some responsibility for a guy wearing their tag.  I think that says a lot for them as an alliance.  This sort of resolution is ideal.  Community fixing the community.


 


The problem here isn't so much the player, but it's the mislabeling of Freedom as PvE.  Rolf profits from the illusion that his game offers both PvE and PvP.  He lures the unsuspecting PvE'er to the game and when their 100E drake sets gets stolen they get hit with the realization that Rolf's version of PvE is really just PvP Lite.  It's false advertisement. 


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This thread absolutely should not be locked.  Why does that always happen?  Someone brings up a a legitimate issue, but the thread gets locked and buried because a few bad posts gets made.  It's just too easy for people to troll threads and get them locked on here!  Especially when forum accounts and game accounts aren't linked and it could be done intentionally to silence discussion.

 

Having all your horses killed is bad enough.  Having the thread about it locked through no fault of your own is the wrong way to moderate imo.  First, remove posts.  Then issue forum account bans.  Then, and only then, if the discussion continues to be out of control should a thread be locked. 

I agree GMS should not close this post it should remain as a means to shame those responsible for this. The community has judged and we all agree Sirlaw was in the wrong 100%. He should be shamed for all time on wurm and those responsible with him!

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Afaik Sirlaw started on Deli and later went to Chaos, he has played in this neighbourhood for as long as I have known him.
I belive he was a newbie when he first joined alliance.
To me this was a normal guy that went bitter over the past few  months for some reason.

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As previously stated, we as a kingdom do not have anything to do with Sirlaws actions. That being said we have offered the person who was griefed compensation in the form of a replacement for every horse lost.

 

Perhaps Lunn and roman need some sort of public flogging from JK for corpse stealing at unique hunts? Well obviously thats complete nonsense  because again it wasnt his kingdom which sanctioned or condoned the activity.

 

Please stop with the KvK rubbish Huntar, you're just giving chaos a bad name.

I feel this is the right thing for MR to do and it shows honor by the Kingdom of MR in doing so. Sirlaw one there own let MR deal with him for his poor actions. Let MR compensate you as they have agreed to do so. Fair market value for every horse killed. Contact them work out your personal agreement with them and accept the compensation and close this post they have offered what would be considered by most a generous offer to resolve this issue. I read this post late so my apologies to Redd and MR. I feel you guys are doing whats right! I hope you will honor it and work it out with her. This is the way the community should act and handle these issues. Sirlaw should be dealt with by his kingdom and his people. I have no doubt in my mind MR will deal with him!  I would hate to be him and have to face Emoo!

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Afaik Sirlaw started on Deli and later went to Chaos, he has played in this neighbourhood for as long as I have known him.

I belive he was a newbie when he first joined alliance.

To me this was a normal guy that went bitter over the past few  months for some reason.

 

I have become a bit disillusioned with the game lately but it never prompted me to take it out on someone else. I just pay premium time and then not log in. Were I to do what he did, it would not solve a single one of the problems I feel disillusioned over. Not one. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here. Maybe if it's affected him this badly, he needs a bit more help than just a PvP attitude adjustment upside the head.

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I'm sorry for this kingdom versus kingdom arguing. That was not my intention. This person was just spouting things about "Chaos" as he went on killing, despite neighbors asking him to stop. And he was not a known neighbor to me because he must spend most of his time on a different server. The area where I live is frequently griefed by players who stop by from Chaos, because it's a landing point. My plea to "Chaos" in general was because I know the play there is very much a group effort, and therefore you can hold people to a higher level of sportsmanship. I have to wonder why people with griefer mentality are welcomed into the fold. And for those of us who don't play PvP, these asshats become your ambassadors, because other than when one of them comes over to PvE and kills and steals and destroys anything they can get their hands on, we don't interact with the rest of you much to know better.


 


That said, if I had realized this person had also made that post about how he would name his field workers, I don't think I would have posted anything at all. I was trying to understand what drives a malicious mentality, but now I don't even think there was much mentality of any sort involved, other than immediate gratification, and a lack of certain basic values. Which may not be evident while a person is just trying to "fit in."


 


Ultimately, even if the kingdom he was aligned with wanted to stop him, they could not have done so, except maybe with threats that he'd be kicked out if he kept at it. But there was no way for them to know the magnitude of what he was up to. What it boils down to is, there has to be some form of repercussion to acting like this, FROM THE GAME ITSELF. I know not one of the griefs that I've seen happen would have happend if the person doing it thought there would be any consequence whatsoever. Ok take that back, ONE person would still have done what he did because he didn't even care about his account, but every other instance of griefing I know of would not have happened if the person thought they could get in trouble for it.


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Also! It seems like there are some PvP issues folks want to sort out - it would be great if you make another thread for it, before this one gets closed - don't you want to know if there ever is any result to the ticket I put in? I'd want to know if I read all this.


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Perhaps I have been playing the wrong game all along.  Perhaps this functionality is intended.  Possibly "A Greifer Paradise" is intentional.  Maybe that will be the name of the next expansion.  Considering the lack of penalties this game gives to greifers, exploiters, thieves and their ilk.  It’s really hard to come up with any other conclusion than this is an intentional game design.  Maybe it’s a niche game designed to attract just these sort of players and its extremely successful at it.


 


I wont get into the details, but I know another greifing situation ongoing right now where 1 person is greifing an entire community and GM’s won’t do anything about it.


 


Its time for me to consider these questions very carefully going forward.


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I wont get into the details, but I know another greifing situation ongoing right now where 1 person is greifing an entire community and GM’s won’t do anything about it.

 

Well moving forth - all griefers, sociopathic neighbor's friends, etc. - if you grief, I will post your name and pictures of what you did, if not movies, plus whatever half-assed rationalizations any of you make for it. I hope everyone else does the same.

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Well moving forth - all griefers, sociopathic neighbor's friends, etc. - if you grief, I will post your name and pictures of what you did, if not movies, plus whatever half-assed rationalizations any of you make for it. I hope everyone else does the same.

 

In this case, I think he's actually enjoying the attention... sometimes the shaming threads are exactly what the person is after. Attention, good or bad. That's another reason I was asking for a lock - because it was spiraling out, because he won't post his reasons, and because this is just feeds into the whole of it.

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Players like SirLaw should be banned, and the banning announced from top management, and stickied.


 


It's not for retribution, retribution would look different.  Banning, announcement by top brass, and making sure the consequence to such action is remembered is just good business.


 


You let one individual behave like this, that one individual can cause players to leave before you have any indication they planned to quit.  Most will not post, or say anything, they will just figure this is not how they want to spend time after work and they will move on.  Adults playing PvE are not in it for the drama or aggravation.  On the contrary.


 


You let one individual behave like this, and further let all his little friends believe the consequences are a cakewalk?  Best to get ahead of these things, not for the sake of morality, but for the effect these sorts of things can have on business from one of your primary demographics.


 


Lorraine... You've been remarkably calm and collected through all this.  Far more than I could ever be.  Deli has some truly great folks on it.  Was my first home, so I know you are in good hands for the recovery. ;)


  • Like 12

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