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LorraineJ

SirLaw - tell us all why you killed all my horses

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Inquiring minds want to know. It must have taken a while to kill about 70 horses. What was going on in your mind during it? You don't know me, and you didn't know that was one of my deeds. But you knew it belonged to someone. Did it not bother you that you were going to be hurting someone? Does it bother you now that you've inconvenienced friends of yours and the general neighborhood from having access to the tar on that deed?


 


People on Chaos, you wonder why many PvE players don't want to come join your PvP - it's the company you keep.


 


Sirlaw> well but if setting are done liek dat i cna do what ever and not get in trouble


 


Sirlaw> go to chaoes and say that


Sirlaw> people there are allready lauthing form what you said


 


 


 


 


 


Sirlaw2_zpsjpethllh.jpg


 


Sirlaw_zpsv1ieso8z.jpg

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TBH, even thought I'm in the same alliance with him, it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Nothing much to say...


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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .J4KDhNp.gif


 


Wurm's community is toxic, it's moderation is intentionally ineffectual and it's player-base is cynical because of it.


 


This is just the beginning. Trust no one completely, lest you be the next one posting a thread in these forums.


 


My neighbor Niki was right about this fact all along. I owe her an apology, I used to be one of the patsies who defended Wurm's community. Now excuse me while I do a complete sweep of my permissions.


Edited by Dairuka
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The staff has in recent threads given green light to do anything.. If something happens to you, it is your own fault.

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Speaking of permissions, is it true that if the non-citizen role settings had said that strangers could not Attack Non-citizens, that he would not have been able to kill every single horse? And if every one was branded, would they have been considered citizens, and then have been safe if Attack Citizens was not checked off?


 


What happens now is, on every deed I own, I will go and un-check "Attack non-citizens," which I usually DO check off because I figure if some poor soul is running by with a troll after them, they need to be able to kill it. So now passers-by can't defend themselves, and there are fences around almost every deed. Not this one though, and look what happened.


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The staff has in recent threads given green light to do anything.. If something happens to you, it is your own fault.

 

Yes we all know about "blame the victim." What I'm hoping to find out here is what goes on in someone's mind as they spend that much time just to make someone unhappy, someone they don't even know.

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Well seeing how that person can't even write so why bother even questioning his intelligence?


Oh well there isn't anything we can do about it other than treat Sirlaw really badly from now on. At least i am going to.


 


Please kill him if you see him in chaos PvP'ers.


Edited by Ripsipiirakka
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Speaking of permissions, is it true that if the non-citizen role settings had said that strangers could not Attack Non-citizens, that he would not have been able to kill every single horse? And if every one was branded, would they have been considered citizens, and then have been safe if Attack Citizens was not checked off?

 

What happens now is, on every deed I own, I will go and un-check "Attack non-citizens," which I usually DO check off because I figure if some poor soul is running by with a troll after them, they need to be able to kill it. So now passers-by can't defend themselves, and there are fences around almost every deed. Not this one though, and look what happened.

 

"Attack non-citizens" means that poor soul will be able to target and attack a "non-citizen" mob on deed. They do not need that permission checked if they are chased by an aggro mob and enter your deed seeking protection and/or help from templar/guards.

 

Even though "attack citizens" was NOT allowed, if your horses were not branded, they were NOT "citizens", therefore any passers by could have killed them. Any branded animal is a citizen, any not branded animal is a non-citizen; branding makes that huge difference between life and death ..

 

Why he did it? Because he could .. some people do not need other reasons. Sad, very sad.

Edited by Evening
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I propose a horse raising to help get the lady started again. Sadly I am on Inde so cannot contribute else I would. Best of luck dear.

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In case you were wondering which Chaos kingdom he's in:


 


[10:57:25] Sirlaw is with the Empire of Mol Rehan. You may not trade with the enemy.


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I propose a horse raising to help get the lady started again. Sadly I am on Inde so cannot contribute else I would. Best of luck dear.

 

Aww thank you so very much. I have other horses though, thankfully he didn't get to those. I'm thinking I'm going to drop this deed, because he messed up my color collection. If anyone wants some white horses let me know, they were not on this deed.

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Quoting the game rules (http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-rules/):
 

Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out (griefing)
Definition: Activities that are not constructive and with deliberate intent to do harm to others.
...
Punishment: You may be given a directive, warned, or even banned based on the situation.

 

For me this is a clear case. I hope further action has been taken.

 

If there is anything I can help you with, Lorraine, send me a PM. (I have horses... :))

Edited by Yaga
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"Attack non-citizens" means that poor soul will be able to target and attack a "non-citizen" mob on deed. They do not need that permission checked if they are chased by an aggro mob and enter your deed seeking protection and/or help from templar/guards.

 

Even though "attack citizens" was NOT allowed, if your horses were not branded, they were NOT "citizens", therefore any passers by could have killed them. Any branded animal is a citizen, any not branded animal is a non-citizen; branding makes that huge difference between life and death ..

 

Why he did it? Because he could .. some people do not need other reasons. Sad, very sad.

 

And you don't find that the least bit confusing? Horses aren't even citizens in my mind, so I would have never thought of that setting effecting them.

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"Attack non-citizens" means that poor soul will be able to target and attack a "non-citizen" mob on deed. They do not need that permission checked if they are chased by an aggro mob and enter your deed seeking protection and/or help from templar/guards.

 

Help! My brain is straining from the double negatives. Ok so say a person is walking through a deed that has ZERO perms checked off for non-citizens; hence "allowed to attack non-citizens" is NOT checked and allowed. If some wild creature starts attacking them, can they fight back?

 

So now that I've unchecked every perm on all of my deeds except one, Warning:  Passers-by, RUN LIKE HELL. Friends, if you had permissions in the past, they're gone since I don't know if you may end up with some guests who think it's a blast to kill every single animal on a stranger's deed. Nothing personal.

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Help! My brain is straining from the double negatives. Ok so say a person is walking through a deed that has ZERO perms checked off for non-citizens; hence "allowed to attack non-citizens" is NOT checked and allowed. If some wild creature starts attacking them, can they fight back?

 

Lorraine, if a stranger passes your deed - with all permissions Zero - and sees a wild mob, he cannot attack it.

IF the wild mob aggroes him, he can fight back, with or without permissions.

 

And you don't find that the least bit confusing? Horses aren't even citizens in my mind, so I would have never thought of that setting effecting them.

I figured it out after an experience I don't want to remember, but more or less similar to Lorraine's.

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Lorraine, if a stranger passes your deed - with all permissions Zero - and sees a wild mob, he cannot attack it.

IF the wild mob aggroes him, he can fight back, with or without permissions.

 

So say he had targeted a horse and it attacked him - he can kill it? Or, he would not even have been able to target it since they are not naturally aggressive? Sorry to keep asking, but it's confusing to me.

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So say he had targeted a horse and it attacked him - he can kill it? Or, he would not even have been able to target it since they are not naturally aggressive? Sorry to keep asking, but it's confusing to me.

 

He cannot initiate combat with a horse as they are 'friendly'.

 

I would say this is a clear case of griefing however. Killing 70 horses just for the fun of it. Especially given that chat log.

 

Please, everyone, from now on...lock everything. I'm not victim blaming, but if you can lock something or place it in a locked area, do so.

This is a pretty shocking case of what can happen if you don't.

 

I'm sorry for your loss Lorraine, I wish there was some way I could help.

Edited by Aru
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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .J4KDhNp.gif

 

Wurm's community is toxic, it's moderation is intentionally ineffectual and it's player-base is cynical because of it.

 

This is just the beginning. Trust no one completely, lest you be the next one posting a thread in these forums.

 

My neighbor Niki was right about this fact all along. I owe her an apology, I used to be one of the patsies who defended Wurm's community. Now excuse me while I do a complete sweep of my permissions.

 

Trust no one in Wurm.

 

Wurm is made for thieves and griefers. The longer you study the rules the more this sinks in. "Player freedom of activity" is just a polite way of saying the rules allow you to be a royal asshat to everyone else. The more you make friends the more they can screw you in this game. Every year new "bugs" are introduced that allow Players to exploit those bugs to their own benefit, and it's the rule following Players who would not normally look for such loopholes that pay the price. Sure there are plenty of good Players that are trustworthy... but no matter how many good people there are it only takes one "oh %$@" to ruin the experience.

 

(I do have friends in Wurm, but the permissions system is so bad in my opinion that I won't put give any of my Wurm friends permissions or spare keys or anything.)

 

There's a real game based reason why there are so many hermits in Wurm.

Edited by geode
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The gates were locked; I had opened perms for some people so they could get at the tar without having to go a long way around.


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Make them go the long way or setup a fenced path with no options for them to get into your deed past that.  Heck you can line the entire path with locked fence gates "on deed" and he wouldnt beable to pick them to wander towards your horse area. 


 


Better for your peace of mind...


Edited by Drpox
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In case you were wondering which Chaos kingdom he's in:

 

[10:57:25] Sirlaw is with the Empire of Mol Rehan. You may not trade with the enemy.

 

His kingdom affiliation has no relevance.

 

We do not condone this activity.

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If I understand correctly, this "Sirlaw" did this to a deed that was in his own alliance, hence he was allowed some "trusted" permissions via the alliance.

 

 

If he did this to a fellow allied member then absolutely he should be ostracized, KOS'd, and not allowed into any other village or alliance. Villages that DO take him in, have an obligation to warn others in their alliance of the risk they are exposing the entire alliance to.  PvP people always tell us how they have ZERO problems because people take care of their own and do not tolerate this sort of behavior.  I would suggest we follow their example, do NOT tolerate it,  and have no social interactions with this guy. He is the type that, if you invite him over to watch a game, will ask to use the bathroom then sneak into your closet and go through all of your pockets looking for things to take, "because I can".

 

I hope if you did file a ticket, you point out to GM staff the rule that Enki himself has posted (and that Yaga linked here).

At the absolute minimum this should result in a warning.  If they said they could do nothing, then I would ask Enki directly if he can explain what he meant by this:

 

 


 

Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out (griefing)
Definition: Activities that are not constructive and with deliberate intent to do harm to others.
...
Punishment: You may be given a directive, warned, or even banned based on the situation.

 

 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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I'm sorry for your loss Lorraine...and yet another thing about the wurm settings what I did not know.


 


 




His kingdom affiliation has no relevance.


 


We do not condone this activity.




 


 


Only applying logic: if his kingdom does not condone his activity, but there are no repercussions from doing it - it is the same thing as giving him (and others) a non-verbal green light to act like this.


 


In the end people like this taint the image of a whole kingdom...


 


It's just like saying that a government employee on vacation that gets super drunk and starts verbally and non-verbally aggressing women in a public place and is recognized will bear no relevance on the government itself..but it will, and I can assure you that unless it is a dictatorship, no government wants that type of publicity associated with them so they will let him go


Edited by Thorakkanath

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Unfortunately we cannot KoS him on servers where he has not been, something that should also be rectified imho.  We should be able to put him on a KoS list everywhere, on every server, in case we forget his name in the future and he deems it appropriate to come anywhere close to our deeds.

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