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Nekojin

There's theft, and then there's THEFT...

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I have a (presently) unlocked Large Cart, and I just got some horses to pull it last night. After having my first pair of horses stolen with my cart a week or so back (and the cart dumped a few dozen tiles away), I learned how the system "works" (if we can call it that). It still seems broken to me that a horse on my property can't be taken even if someone can get to them, but the horse AND CART certainly can be...


 


But I learned from that lesson; it was my mistake in leaving the unlocked cart out where the public can reach it. Since then, I've kept the cart parked inside my locked house. I only take it out when I'm going to use it, and put it back when I'm done with it. I figured that would be good enough. I was wrong.


 


As I said, I got some new horses last night. And I'm riding around, taking care of some damaged walls on my deed, using stones to repair and improve some cracking walls. I got off, started to work on one repair. And suddenly my cart starts moving. A pair of players named Dragonarmor and Sharanakat had jumped on and were driving away, with me standing right next to it. If I'd been at all AFK, they literally would have stolen my cart out from under my nose. I shouted in Local, and Sharanakat said, "lol sorry" and started backing the cart back up, and got off it again.


 


Would they have gotten away with cart and horse, taking all the belongings, if I hadn't noticed? There's no way to know for sure, but I certainly wouldn't have had any idea of where to look, and I honestly don't believe that they would have just brought it back a few minutes later. It was a deliberate and, in my opinion, malicious attempt at theft.


 


And yet, even when they're doing it literally right in front of me, I have to just shrug and say, "I didn't have it locked, MY BAD!"  I think these people were trying to steal my property, and would have if they hadn't been caught in the act. By "apologizing" and "rewinding" the theft, there's no harm, no foul? No, I don't think so.


 


It just annoys the hell out of me that in order to prevent any theft, I have to take the hardest of hard lines, and lock the hell out of everything. No chances for any possibility of theft, no room for people to use or enjoy my property... just keep everyone out, keep it safe. No middle ground, no way to allow for friendly neighbors...


Edited by Nekojin
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Yes if you leave anything in the wild free to take, anyone can take it. There are easy game mechanics in place to claim ownership, like adding a lock to it.


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While I agree with you, I am wondering why a player playing since 2011 does not just add a lock to the cart.  Are you the official owner of the cart oir is it an old one you "inherited" and cannot add a lock to now?  


 


I agree about theft, I am just surprised after it was stolen once before.  If someone else owns the cart -- ie, their name shows if you EXAMINE the cart  (you found it abandoned or a villager left it behind), you should make a new cart and add a lock because this one will never ever ever be secure.    You can then set the cart to be usable by "Friends" so that people you know are allowed to borrow it.    Whether it is right or not, is not so much the issue as you have a cart that can never be secured.  As it is now, anyone can unhitch the horses and walk off with them even while you are driving the cart on a public highway.   I am just warning you since it seems you do not know some details -- none of us know ALL the details on security.  Currently it is in effect a cart owned by no one. 


 


I assume you do not want random visitors who come calling to your deed, or delivering materials,  to find they can no longer drive their own cart (or their mayor's cart) once they have finished having afternoon tea and unloaded their goods for you  


 


That's why the game allows anyone to drive off in a cart of which they are permitted to be driver. 


Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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yep you have to lock and secure everything you should have known better if you have been hit before. Not that theft is okay but you have to do your part to protect yourself too.  


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I think what wurm teaches us when new is sell anything of value asap, before someone steals it.  Or.. make big walls and not friends.


 


However, the cases of theft are small, compared to the number of times people go out of their way to be friendly and helpful.  Make the best of the bad, learning to lock everything and keep deed/cart permissions harsh.  Then make friends with some comfort in your security.


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Yes if you leave anything in the wild free to take, anyone can take it. There are easy game mechanics in place to claim ownership, like adding a lock to it.

It wasn't in wild, and it wasn't "left" - it was on my deed.

 

 

While I agree with you, I am wondering why a player playing since 2011 does not just add a lock to the cart.  Are you the official owner of the cart oir is it an old one you "inherited" and cannot add a lock to now?  

 

I agree about theft, I am just surprised after it was stolen once before.  If someone else owns the cart -- ie, their name shows if you EXAMINE the cart  (you found it abandoned or a villager left it behind), you should make a new cart and add a lock because this one will never ever ever be secure.    You can then set the cart to be usable by "Friends".    Whether it is right or not, is not so much the issue as you have a cart that can never be secured.  As it is now, anyone can unhitch the horses and walk off with them even while you are driving the cart.  I am just warning you since it seems you do not know some details -- none of us know ALL the details on security. 

My cart, built by me, yes. And yes, I should have locked it, and am doing so right now. Waiting for the forge to warm up.

 

And I was unaware that people could unhitch horses on a cart while you're using it. That seems especially egregious and broken, to me.

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I think what wurm teaches us when new is sell anything of value asap, before someone steals it.  Or.. make big walls and not friends.

 

However, the cases of theft are small, compared to the number of times people go out of their way to be friendly and helpful.  Make the best of the bad, learning to lock everything and keep deed/cart permissions harsh.  Then make friends with some comfort in your security.

 

I think wurm teaches you to be responsible with your belonings. You don't leave your wallet on a table in a bar while you go to the bathroom. Hell, it's actually illegal to leave your car unlocked here just to protect the less intelligent members of society. All it takes is for you to not be a total idiot and your stuff is safe in wurm. You can't actually steal on a pve server, only pick up things that are free to take for everyone.

Edited by Judicator
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And I was unaware that people could unhitch horses on a cart while you're using it. That seems especially egregious and broken, to me.

 

It has happened =/

 

There was one case in Deli in 2012 or so that caused an uproar after the GM's decision was, he had to give one horse back but could keep the other one.  Solomon's decision, I guess.  At least the guy got his cart home again albeit slowly. 

 

(It is possible that was later changed, I have not tested it to see. I believe on unlocked carts, it still works the same since no lock means anyone has full permissions.)

 

 

 

 All it takes is for you to not be a total idiot and your stuff is safe in wurm.  

 

 

That's actually not 100 percent true. There are ways to get into secured areas besides "superbounce". I had a visitor demonstrate this the other day, showing me how they got into my secured area  and then back out again. I tested it myself and was able to enter with a new "unpermissioned" alt, all fenced areas I had both with and without deeds. All had fully secured gatehouses and not "gatelocks." Not near steep slopes. When I contacted GMs to report the exploit, they said they already knew about it.  My main problem now is that "this way" that was demonstrated, and that I later did myself, would require me to tear down and rebuild an entire deed worth of newly built multistory stone complexes.  And then all it takes is a major update, some new change, and I am again fully vunerable. 

 

Since we know it is never safe we need to take all possible precautions.  A cart, boat and house lock is an excellent place to start.

 

Some people "know" ways that others do not know.  That will likely ALWAYS be the case in Wurm. 

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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I have a (presently) unlocked Large Cart, and I just got some horses to pull it last night. After having my first pair of horses stolen with my cart a week or so back (and the cart dumped a few dozen tiles away), I learned how the system "works" (if we can call it that). It still seems broken to me that a horse on my property can't be taken even if someone can get to them, but the horse AND CART certainly can be...

 

But I learned from that lesson....

Had laugh when I read this post. It seems that you did *not* learn anything from these large cart "thefts", since you stubbornly refuse to create a large padlock and attach it to your cart. Doh!

 

Thanks for the laugh and a smile though. Maybe others might again learn from this post to take the simple procedure/precaution to attach a large padlock to their own large carts after completion, or even later on. Who knows...

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

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And yet, even when they're doing it literally right in front of me, I have to just shrug and say, "Boy, I sure wish I took a moment to lock my cart, providing 100% safety against theft"  

FTFY

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No middle ground, no way to allow for friendly neighbors...

Lock your cart, add neighbour to friend list, set cart to be usable by friends.

There are plenty of helpful mechanics in this game :)

Edited by Cista

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There's theft (running of with someone's cart full of woodscraps) and then there's THEFT! (Running off with their knarr)

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Lock your cart, add neighbour to friend list, set cart to be usable by friends.

There are plenty of helpful mechanics in this game :)

 

And then have someone who acted friendly to you, get allowed to access stuff...and wander off with it. Because nobody would ever think of 'playing nice' just to steal something...

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And then have someone who acted friendly to you, get allowed to access stuff...and wander off with it. Because nobody would ever think of 'playing nice' just to steal something...

 

Your cart, your decision. If you don't have anyone you want to trust, don't let anyone drive your cart. But don't project the issue to people that do share with friends.

Edited by Cista

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Your cart, your decision. 

 

'Oh fie on thee for choosing to trust someone, take what you will...'

 

This is what people refer to as blaming the victim.

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Just a simple mindset change on carts, doors, gates and ships: treat them unfinished until you attach the lock and set permissions. Any other way you'll eventually forget this step.

Like: do you leave your bike unlocked in a yard?

Edited by Jaz
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'Oh fie on thee for choosing to trust someone, take what you will...'

 

This is what people refer to as blaming the victim.

 

Again, this is a game where I have the freedom to share things like carts with my friends, through settings that are very useful. These systems are quite unique and wonderful.

 

I do not appreciate any attempts to remove that freedom from the game.

Edited by Cista

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I don't mean to be rude, but after the first theft and taking care to keep the cart in your house - why did you not put a lock on it as well back then? That's what was said from the start in the other thread where I think this was brought up.


 


The Wurmpedia has mentioned the need for a lock to activate the permissions of a cart for many years now. I had started three years ago, and it was one of the first things I had learned: Put a lock on everything. Boats, carts, gates - even on deed. The only thing Freedom gives you is that you don't have to care about the quality of said lock.


 


As for those names, are they always in your local? Neighbors? Put them on your deed' KoS list to start and see if you can figure out what deed they belong to. If you can, bring up their actions to that mayor or the alliance that deed belongs to. Failing that, let their names stay in this post as a warning to others.


 


Edited: Another thing often forgotten are door locks.


Edited by Keenan

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Make a lock part of the building structure of a large cart .. no one will forget to lock it then, newbies and oldies alike. Have the locking permissions popup on completion. Boom! fixed. 


Edited by Lolly1
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Again, this is a game where I have the freedom to share things like carts with my friends, through settings that are very useful. These systems are quite unique and wonderful.

 

I do not appreciate any attempts to remove that freedom from the game.

 

What we're asking for here is not removal of freedom. What we're asking for, is that something actually be done when that person you 'thought' was your friend, and/or you put trust in, uses/bruteforces that trust and turns around and uses weak permissions/your trust to take anything and everything of any value you had, and actually enforce the 'No thieving' on freedom rule.

 

Can you not see how many people are bringing things up that they've seen/heard/had happen to them up, THAT NO CONSEQUENCES were brought about for?

 

Yeah, people can run around locking everything up in fits of paranoia because why should anyone ever trust anyone...? Or we could, y'know, play this game working together as it was intended on PvE servers...without having to worry about all of our stuff disappearing AND THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT.

 

The spirit of an MMO is people working together. Not this 'Solo hermits making multiple alts and keeping everyone at arms length' that they've fostered on this game.

 

Or do you really think losing longterm players because they lost a bunch of stuff and decided it wasn't worth continuing to play anymore (Even with those few people who offer to step in and cover their losses.)...because nothing was done about their situation is a 'good' thing for the game?

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Corsan, your post made me Lol. The spirit of an MMO is people working together? HA! Wurm has no incentive to do this. The majority of people stick to their groups, don't offer help, are rude and unhelpful, cause one trouble for doing nothing, GM/devs do nothing when something bad actually happens to you, did I mention that I said HA?! If someone wants to play solo and a million alts, that's their choice and THAT'S what a real MMO is all about. Choices. This "spirit" you talk of barely exists anymore, its pretty much one for oneself sadly. But keep thinking that if it makes you happy. :) 


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Thanks for proving my point.


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You don't think i know this? hence my comment. 


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