PvP and Ignoring Staff Members

[Pashka 707]

Some staff members and players just rub each other the wrong way.  It isn't always that they are a bad apple.   talking and PVP go hand in hand.  Not sure how you report one for it and not the entire game.  The difference is that you can ignore a non staff player so you never have to see their talk again and you can't a CM/GM.  

[Reylaark 1,100]

The simple solution here which requires no changes is to politely ask said staff member to refrain from PMing you since you do not have the option to ignore them, if said staff member continues regardless of your request then report to his/her superior for abusing staff privileges.

 

And then what happens?

 

I really appreciate that people volunteer to help, but it does go both ways.  If someone doesn't want, or can't understand, the responsibility that comes with augmented rights, they can walk away any time.  They're volunteering, there's no loss of income or benefits in walking away.

 

I do understand Necroe probably figures there is an option, come out and fight!  Ordinarily that would be true, but either:

 

1) We've got a moderator with no understanding of how his position affects gameplay... which is obviously a problem.  One would think there is some amount of training and/or ensuring moderators are fully capable of understanding the ramifications of their position.  Ramifications MrGary explained very well.

OR

2) We've got a moderator with a perfectly good understanding of how his position affects gameplay, but just no particular reason to care... this is also a problem. 

 

Adding the ignore for CM's is a solution that allows CM's to taunt and play normally (or closer to anyway).

However, problem #2 would make me suspect abusing the lack of ignore is just one symptom, and other abuses are more likely than not to be happening.

 

In my humble and only somewhat informed opinion, the better solution is as someone else suggested, remove (or educate) the bad apples rather than change the basket.

Make the removal painful and known to others in the same position to avoid #2, but then I do have a Machiavellian streak   

 

 

Incidentally, both problems 1 and 2 are ultimately management problems and require action from management to fix.  In other words, where is management?  Necroe seems to believe Enki is too busy to deal with his behavior.  That's not good.

[Pashka 707]

I do agree that in this one particular instance he knows that you cannot ignore him and continues to taunt.  If you had the ability to ignore him, what he was saying wasn't anything anyone else doesn't say.  It is bad when you know you can't be ignored and you refuse to shut up.   It shows very bad form.  Do I think that means he would so something else equally bad?  I don't know.  I do hope with this log coming out that all of the CM/GM's will take this opportunity to do a bit of soul searching and training.

 

If we could ignore him though, none of this is an issue.  He can play like he wants to and taunt to his hearts desire.  And if a warning needs to be issued there would be a tool in place so he could PM the person he needs to warn.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

There is an inherent vast amount of smack talking in local on pvp server that is de rigueur.  I see it as part of the landscape.  Players that are also staff that pvp  are held to a double standard in that if they participate in the same smack talk, others feel it's not appropriate and will target them for attack in some manner.  I myself am not a smack talk type person so it doesn't apply to me.  yet if we are to take part in smack talk what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  I see alot of it on pvp in local chat and I find it just humor banter part of the landscape despite it not being my flavor.

 

I thought this thread was about pm's and staff not being able to be put on ignore for pms.  Local chat is the same for all no matter.  currently if you ask a staff to stop with pms they will or need to and if not you can support ticket discuss it with their superiors.  what is being discussed here is local chat and not pms and we are going astray from the topic.

[Kadore 926]

There is an inherent vast amount of smack talking in local on pvp server that is de rigueur.  I see it as part of the landscape.  Players that are also staff that pvp  are held to a double standard in that if they participate in the same smack talk, others feel it's not appropriate and will target them for attack in some manner.  I myself am not a smack talk type person so it doesn't apply to me.  yet if we are to take part in smack talk what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  I see alot of it on pvp in local chat and I find it just humor banter part of the landscape despite it not being my flavor.

 

I thought this thread was about pm's and staff not being able to be put on ignore for pms.  Local chat is the same for all no matter.  currently if you ask a staff to stop with pms they will or need to and if not you can support ticket discuss it with their superiors.  what is being discussed here is local chat and not pms and we are going astray from the topic.

Why is the all the work needed on my end as a PLAYER in this game to get a PLAYER that is also staff to STFU in channels I have open, when I can do so with every normal player in the game.

 

Why is the burden on me to report an have to wait for an investigation to find out your bothersome to me, and perhaps in the end be told the staff member broke no rules, which leaves me stuck again having to listen to you.

 

While you claim so many talk smack in local, all but members of staff can be ignored with current game mechanics.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

Why is the all the work needed on my end as a PLAYER in this game to get a PLAYER that is also staff to STFU in channels I have open, when I can do so with every normal player in the game.

 

Why is the burden on me to report an have to wait for an investigation to find out your bothersome to me, and perhaps in the end be told the staff member broke no rules, which leaves me stuck again having to listen to you.

 

While you claim so many talk smack in local, all but members of staff can be ignored with current game mechanics.

The same burdon you talk about is a burdon we all carry if someone offends us we must ignore or report.  There is no difference between player and staff there.  The the inability to ignore is for CM's and above for private messages.  I don't smack talk nor care for it so I just ignore when it happens as others do.  my comments only say if people smack talk in local then we can't be pot calling kettle black when it is done in return.  It's an aspect of pvp it seems to local chat and forum chat pvp also.  not really my thing but it goes on.

 

To me it looks like this situation is being blown out of proportion.  I've already +1 the suggested change to on pvp servers we should be able to ignore all those we wish.  Only time staff should not be able to be ignored is if responding in an official capacity in my opinion on a pvp server.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Bloodscythe

[Pashka 707]

There is an inherent vast amount of smack talking in local on pvp server that is de rigueur.  I see it as part of the landscape.  Players that are also staff that pvp  are held to a double standard in that if they participate in the same smack talk, others feel it's not appropriate and will target them for attack in some manner.  I myself am not a smack talk type person so it doesn't apply to me.  yet if we are to take part in smack talk what is good for the goose is good for the gander.  I see alot of it on pvp in local chat and I find it just humor banter part of the landscape despite it not being my flavor.

 

I thought this thread was about pm's and staff not being able to be put on ignore for pms.  Local chat is the same for all no matter.  currently if you ask a staff to stop with pms they will or need to and if not you can support ticket discuss it with their superiors.  what is being discussed here is local chat and not pms and we are going astray from the topic.

 

 

Given the nature of PvP servers, things such as banter, shitslinging and other generally unsavoury communication is not uncommon, and quite often enjoyed by some people.  However, sometimes you simply do not want people contacting you, or seeing their inane drivel in local, so you /ignore them.

 

Now, when it comes to wurm 'staff', namely GMs and CMs, you do not have this option.  Which means on pvp servers they you cannot chose to ignore their prattling and banter, etc.  I honestly don't think this is acceptable.

 

I suggest that instead you should be able to ignore staff members, however if they need contact you in their official capacity, they can choose to override this, but in doing so MUST act accordingly.  Overriding this to hurl abuse or mock people should be seen as abuse of their position and taken care of.

 

 

Just brought the item in question back to the page for you Bloodscythe.  As you can clearly see, the topic is being able to ignore someone that happens to be a GM or CM in any channel.  Noone here has said that a staff member shouldn't be able to PM in their official capacity.  They however shouldn't be able to use whatever new tool they might be given to override an ignore to PM someone about something that is not official though.  But I am jumping the gun.

 

As you can see, noone has strayed from the topic.

 

Just an added note,  This shouldn't just be for PVP.  It should be for everywhere.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Pashka

[aamanus 1,488]

My topic is not about PMs bloodscythe, it's about not being able to ignore staff members. Banter happens in all available channels on PVP servers - I have had members of my kingdom having to deal with it in PMs and in local (fortunately, the offending CM is not in any other channels with us).  

[Keenan 5,539]

Easiest fix:

 

If you have a staff position that grants powers, you get a special account with said powers. You don't come on Chaos unless you're responding to a ticket.

 

This is how MMOs, MUDs, and other games/environments/servers/etc have done things for a long time, and for good reason. Not only is there the question of if a staff is abusing power by smack-talking in a place where they can't be ignored (and yes, you are abusing your power that way), there's also the question of temptation. The temptation to use any powers you may have for yourself and your friends. These accusations go around and around, and it's SO EASY to fix.

 

Please, Rolf - if you read this - consider stripping ALL POWERS off of current staff player accounts and handing out STAFF ONLY accounts with those powers.

[Redd 4,281]

Doesnt matter which channel the abuse is. The fact is is that we should not be abused and insulted and have it forced down our neck when we do not want it.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

Easiest fix:

 

If you have a staff position that grants powers, you get a special account with said powers. You don't come on Chaos unless you're responding to a ticket.

 

This is how MMOs, MUDs, and other games/environments/servers/etc have done things for a long time, and for good reason. Not only is there the question of if a staff is abusing power by smack-talking in a place where they can't be ignored (and yes, you are abusing your power that way), there's also the question of temptation. The temptation to use any powers you may have for yourself and your friends. These accusations go around and around, and it's SO EASY to fix.

 

Please, Rolf - if you read this - consider stripping ALL POWERS off of current staff player accounts and handing out STAFF ONLY accounts with those powers.

I like this suggestion.  It solves it the easiest way and removes an unintended outcome of staff accounts on pvp servers as players. 

[MisterTeddy 284]

The staff go to great lengths to remain objective, and to avoid conflicts of interest, including the use of Non pvp playing staff for pvp tickets.

 

+1 from a pvp player that lacks a voice here.

 

Edited

 

problem with this is most pve staff have no idea how to properly handle a pvp specific issue and mess it up pretty badly; on the other hand, kingdom bias comes into account

 

best solution I can think of is having pvp staff from another cluster with no kingdom affiliation on the cluster from which the ticket originated work on the issue

 

+1 to the op, staff shouldn't be immune to ignore for non-official stuff (although for the record I do reject the op's personal agenda in this post)

[Enki 6,940]

I have read a number of the chats in direct relation to these complaints.  There is some meat to the problem of staff powers preventing a few normal social interaction mechanisms granted by the game.  We have sorted this out in a manner that should negate the current problems, but no player should receive any unwanted PM's from a staff member unless it is for official moderation business. 

 

Oh and by the way... I will not refuse a team member their privilege to engage in normal antagonistic banter on PVP!  We are all just players and it is important that we get to enjoy the game in the same manner as everyone.

[Kadore 926]

I have read a number of the chats in direct relation to these complaints.  There is some meat to the problem of staff powers preventing a few normal social interaction mechanisms granted by the game.  We have sorted this out in a manner that should negate the current problems, but no player should receive any unwanted PM's from a staff member unless it is for official moderation business. 

 

Oh and by the way... I will not refuse a team member their privilege to engage in normal antagonistic banter on PVP!  We are all just players and it is important that we get to enjoy the game in the same manner as everyone.

Banter is great, but players should have the right to ignore all who choose to banter, fancy forum icon or not.

[Kadore 926]

Easiest fix:

 

If you have a staff position that grants powers, you get a special account with said powers. You don't come on Chaos unless you're responding to a ticket.

 

This is how MMOs, MUDs, and other games/environments/servers/etc have done things for a long time, and for good reason. Not only is there the question of if a staff is abusing power by smack-talking in a place where they can't be ignored (and yes, you are abusing your power that way), there's also the question of temptation. The temptation to use any powers you may have for yourself and your friends. These accusations go around and around, and it's SO EASY to fix.

 

Please, Rolf - if you read this - consider stripping ALL POWERS off of current staff player accounts and handing out STAFF ONLY accounts with those powers.

Your unable to ignore a CM's and above player character, so your pretty much saying a member of staff can play on the pvp servers, that is no easy fix, that severely limits the pool of players you recruit and leads to people responding to tickets with little to no clue how pvp works.

[aamanus 1,488]

I have read a number of the chats in direct relation to these complaints.  There is some meat to the problem of staff powers preventing a few normal social interaction mechanisms granted by the game.  We have sorted this out in a manner that should negate the current problems, but no player should receive any unwanted PM's from a staff member unless it is for official moderation business. 

 

Oh and by the way... I will not refuse a team member their privilege to engage in normal antagonistic banter on PVP!  We are all just players and it is important that we get to enjoy the game in the same manner as everyone.

 

I agree, and that's why my suggestion was to allow us to ignore them as we can every other player, so that we can choose to engage in banter or not.  The issue was not that there was banter, but simply that there was no choice.  Glad that the issue was resolved for now at least and hope it doesn't become an issue in the future.

[Keenan 5,539]

I have read a number of the chats in direct relation to these complaints.  There is some meat to the problem of staff powers preventing a few normal social interaction mechanisms granted by the game.  We have sorted this out in a manner that should negate the current problems, but no player should receive any unwanted PM's from a staff member unless it is for official moderation business. 

 

Oh and by the way... I will not refuse a team member their privilege to engage in normal antagonistic banter on PVP!  We are all just players and it is important that we get to enjoy the game in the same manner as everyone.

 

Thank you for working on a solution. Staff members are simply volunteers, so no - they shouldn't be restricted from any sort of game play that other players enjoy. That's also why I strongly support the idea of having completely separate accounts for staff duties and players. 

 

Your unable to ignore a CM's and above player character, so your pretty much saying a member of staff can play on the pvp servers, that is no easy fix, that severely limits the pool of players you recruit and leads to people responding to tickets with little to no clue how pvp works.

 

You seemed to miss my point, Kadore. If the staff member is on a player account without any of the special permissions that their staff roles provide, then they wouldn't be immune to ignores either. It would give them the freedom to banter and play without worry that their staff affiliation may be seen as abuse or actually be abused.

[Kadore 926]

Thank you for working on a solution. Staff members are simply volunteers, so no - they shouldn't be restricted from any sort of game play that other players enjoy. That's also why I strongly support the idea of having completely separate accounts for staff duties and players. 

 

 

You seemed to miss my point, Kadore. If the staff member is on a player account without any of the special permissions that their staff roles provide, then they wouldn't be immune to ignores either. It would give them the freedom to banter and play without worry that their staff affiliation may be seen as abuse or actually be abused.

Makes sense, suppose didn't get it by the way it was worded.

[Cecci 1,609]

It is easy to say "file a ticket" but the tickets pass thru steps before/if they reach a superior.

[Miretta 1,415]

+1

[Redd 4,281]

Good change, can't be force fed rubbish in local and pm from Cm's now

[TrofeoLover1 2]

It is my opinion that I should be able to ignore all other players of the game, including staff. When a staff member needs to talk to a player, they can do it from their elevated staff position using special powers. Point is, they should ACT from an elevated position as well. When you have staff that starts mixing in with the rest of the kids in the game, it runs players off the chats and the game. My two copper.

[Keenan 5,539]

Well since this was resurrected after over a month, I was thinking there might be a very easy solution. Allowing us to turn off local chat. People who have turned off local chat could appear with a - next to their name to denote that they are not listening to their local chat. 

 

This would make it more viable to do what was suggested, and to ask a specific staff member to not PM them unless it's official business. This would also be of use on Freedom, as I've shared local with some rather chatty individuals myself and the blinking tab just makes me batty.

[Uisge_Beatha 186]

Just imagine how it is when the CM is sitting next to you, definitely can't ignore her then.....

 

Well I could, but the repercussions are limitless.

[Nappy 1,369]

But what if the over sear then starts telling their kingdom the village secrets of the staff member they are over seeing. Would just be an endless loop of over sears.

 

What if instead the staff members were asked to list the servers that they played on. For those servers they are removed from visibility into all/any tickets that take place on those servers.

 

This way they can still complete their official role while also not being able to see/communicate anything to do with the places where they actually play the game.