Is PvP vs PvE becoming too agro?

[TheTashman 124]

My finding of all the Chaos players i have met and talked to have all be very gracious and most helpful. A non Chaos freedom would be a real shame and it would loose far more than it gains..... 

[Keenan 5,539]

How about where PVP can not have a say in non PVP maps physics,trades,gods,whatever so that way i can put a gate on my deed canal lol

 

How about PVE  does not have a say in PVP physics trades gods  ....you get the message.

 

I guess that would take different code

 

I don't post much PVE Vs PVP  nonsense on these forums  i don't post much at all  i prefer to play the game with what i got and have fun why let arguing bring me down.

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

 

 

And while PvP exists on Chaos, I find that there's a greater PvP mindset in some PvE players.

 

 

 

If you want the PvE vs PvP agro to stop, it starts with you - any and all of you.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Bloodscythe

[Dairuka 888]

More than anything, CodeClub AB needs to learn how to play the Public Relations game.

 

Get infront of issues before they become an issue. Document everything, and stop being cryptic. It doesn't make the game more mysterious, it makes it more frustrating.

 

If you're going to enforce changes to one play-style or the other, actually get community leaders from those specific play-styles to give their input first, then make adjustments accordingly. (Chaos Veterans who play on Xanadu do not count as Freedom Veterans. Just like an Independence Veteran who never stepped foot on Chaos would not count as a PvP Veteran.)

Edited June 14, 2015 by Dairuka

[MisterTeddy 284]

Separating PVE and PVP, yes.  But take all those things, gods, hota, banners, etc. is wrong.  We complain that the only way to get some variety in our content is to either go join pvp, or buy it from them.  What you propose would be a very generic, bland pve experience.  Your idea seems a bit one sided, letting pvp have all the goodies and pve gets nothing.

[Audrel 2,223]

EDIT: And I posted this in the wrong thread. Well, I ain't moving it. Point to it from there.

 

My point for this whole thread has been that there is very little that is exclusive to one or the other. Up until recently, Chaos did have Hota but, since the Freedom-Chaos connections at Xanadu launch, it was never really been exclusive since. It's been matched on PvE with Scavenger Hunt, but it's never really been exclusive either. As long as we can cross borders and attend, it's not exclusive. It's simply distant. The statues and prizes are not exclusive either. They are distant also. You have to go where they are won to play the event to win them. All the decoration are available to everyone, not just the Freedom Isles + Choas if Chaos wants to not be called part of Freedom, however you do share a border that is not prohibitive to cross so you are attached to Freedom regardless of how you want to be labeled.

 

The only thing exclusive are code/mechanics. Killing other players is exclusive to Chaos. You can't directly do it on Freedom. It's simply not possible. Therefore, gaining affinities is exclusive to Chaos simply because of the previous code/mechanics. We have turrets and archery towers on Freedom but they are not functional. Again, the code/mechanics for functionality are exclusive. They are not functional because they are used to kill players. They could be made functional but that's not really an issue unless we some day have flying then you will need ranged guards for KoS, the "justice" of Freedom that doesn't involve GMs. 

 

That's where the misused word "entitlement" comes in MisterTeddy. Around here, "entitlement" is used by someone who has something and thinks they are supposed to be some kind of elite person by having something someone else does. They then say the person who wants it "is feeling entitled" when they themselves by wanting to keep it all to themselves are the ones "feeling entitled" to keep it because they themselves want it to themselves. However, I used quotes because that isn't being entitled either. That's being selfish. The previous is being jealous. The only place someone is entitled on Freedom is when it comes to the sanctity of their deed. That's what Freedom is for, hey? But that is also the time in which the word "entitled" used as a slur is used the loudest and the most out of place because it's the only true entitlement you are eligible for here. 

 

All that this list, this thread, and the 5 or 6 others like it going on right now have done is serve to stick a finger in a sore that has been festering for as long as I have been here. It's never going to heal because no one can keep their fingers out of it. They can't stop picking at it. It's an infected mess but only because people won't leave it alone. There are times when it needs to be discussed such as when mechanics changes on one affect the other but threads like this one serve no purpose other than to embroil the community in fighting over nothing because everything on that list is categorized wrongly and distorted to give the impression that Group A is being babied while Group B has been thrown under the bus with both groups have gotten the whole list.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Audrel

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Always been problems, for some reason pve people request pvp only content, and get it for some reason.

[Keenan 5,539]

Always been problems, for some reason pve people request pvp only content, and get it for some reason.

[Milosanx 716]

Another painful PvP vs PvE thread.

 

Really, Chaos hurts you that much? I think you'll find most freedomers are actually benefiting a lot from chaos being linked, Except for the minority actually complaining about it.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Another painful PvP vs PvE thread.

 

Really, Chaos hurts you that much? I think you'll find most freedomers are actually benefiting a lot from chaos being linked, Except for the minority actually complaining about it.

 

Go on.... complete that statement.  List a few benefits.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Mordraug

[Milosanx 716]

Carts, banners, flags, botd, hota statues, glimmersteel, addy, linked skill to pvp even if you are a freedomer, kingdom towers....but even if you don't think these are beneficial enough, a lot of people do. 

 

Oh and now, the new Priest types..

Edited June 14, 2015 by Milosanx

[Mordraug 2,542]

By carts i guess you mean kingdom wagons.

 

So.. 

 

 

Carts, banners, flags, botd, hota statues, glimmersteel, addy, linked skill to pvp even if you are a freedomer, kingdom towers....but even if you don't think these are beneficial enough, a lot of people do. 

 

Really beneficial yeah, except we gotta pay you guys for them so how's that "benefit from being linked".

 

Towers/wagons/flags, functionwise, we can make those just as well by disconnecting Chaos.  Just with a single skin on the graphics available to us because God forbid PvP'ers lose that special feeling of being specially special on a special server for special people to be specially special on.

 

Glimmersteel and addy.... oh wait .... we ALSO gotta pay you guys for that.

 

BotD ..... wait.... we also gotta pay for that and not to a Freedom priest, and that said CoC + WoA do the same function.

 

So who's really benefitting?  Only reason none of those special metals, any equivalents, or the different kingdom items are craftable on Freedom is because of the massive hissyfit that would be thrown Rolf's way 2 seconds later, evident in the crying, whining, and tears of entitled PvP'ers, to use your culture's language...

 

Seems like way more benefit$ would be lost to you guys than us at Freedom if a disconnect were to happen.

 

Then again, we wouldn't be able to run our deeds at all if it weren't for HotA statues...... or was it you guys would have to disband a lot of stuff? =)

 

 

 

Oh and now, the new Priest types..

 

Those we pay Rolf for, still gotta prem new alts.  And only reason you guys aren't having your way and getting the "exclusive" BL gods removed from Freedom is because for once, Rolf's doing the financially sensible thing.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Mordraug

[Rasu 561]

So what your saying is gimme free crap that everyone on the PvP side has to work for. But hey if I don't get it free it's not like I need it.

[Audrel 2,223]

So what your saying is gimme free crap that everyone on the PvP side has to work for. But hey if I don't get it free it's not like I need it.

 

LOL it's a wagon. It works like a wagon. You don't work any harder for that wagon than I do for a Freedom skinned wagon. These threads are beyond silly and bordering upon asinine. It's a wagon. It's a flag. It's a banner. It's no harder to make on Chaos than it is on Xanadu. I guess it would be if you made them during a raid.  

[Rasu 561]

Answer me this: Did you sit down and do the art work to create the design that shows on the banner, wagon, and flags? Are you taking the risk of getting killed while sailing them off the server?

[Raybarg 442]

The way to properly stir the pve vs pvp agro is to talk about ppl who do both, then both sides want to argue "both" cant be achieved, that world is black and white.

 

This thread, lol. Some of my braincells wanted to commit suicide after reading some posts, same braincells were happy they didnt when I read some posts.

 

It sort of evened out, letting me with empty hand and dull face. Going to next thread ->

[Mordraug 2,542]

Answer me this: Did you sit down and do the art work to create the design that shows on the banner, wagon, and flags? Are you taking the risk of getting killed while sailing them off the server?

 

We'd also have them if Rolf took 5 seconds to read past the PvP belieber screams and accepted our cash along with our art submissions....

 

As for "the risk", what happened to the no-gank honorable PvP y'all keep mentioning when telling us to come over?

 

As for "the risk", you suddenly make it sound like you ONLY risk your toon's "life" for bringing us those wagons we can't play without, but otherwise would NEVER be in PvP-risky situations.

 

And as for "the risk", TAKE ESCORT!  You guys are soooo united I'm amazed you'd let your traders travel solo on deliveries.

 

Also.... who gives a rat's arse about the risk?  What matters is funding Wurm, which we on PvE are willing to do, and you guys on PvP are willing to undermine for the sake of your own pockets and egos.

 

If you're so excessively low on cash that you'd prefer CodeClub's bank account not grow so you can keep selling stuff to PvE, sounds like keeping your kind is a bigger "risk" to CodeClub than any "risk" you take travelling to freedom for a quick buck.

 

Seriously, Rolf... you keep catering to people who don't give two craps about your business or its financials and would rather see it sink than let their fragile egos get hurt by the non-PvP crowd having shiny stuff.

 

Once again, if you guys are such supeeeerioooor players, why are you so terrified of someone taming a couple of hell hounds and bringing them into a battle? What's stopping you from crafting a fishing rod and catching a wolf?  

 

Why are you so terrified of Freedomers having more shineys to play with, you'd think ***supeeerioooor*** players would find ways to make ingame money without needing the game's creator to code them exclusives pretty much for that sole purpose.

 

Only thing worse than a noob is a noob with an overfed ego.

[Tekari 133]

Becoming too aggro? Naaaah, it took at least 1 1/2 pages to become a ragefest xD

 

And besides... for me the separation suggestion (though I wouldn't vote for another server) is a good one if we (on PvE side)

don't have to deal with code changes that are primarily for the PvP side of the game.

 

We don't need our pets doing only half damage to balance our gameplay and we surely don't need a new god who is turning

 two old ones obsolete (Nahjo <-> Fo and Mag; look at the spell list, can cut wood AND mine etc.).

By adding the new gods we don't have more choices now. We are kinda forced to choose Nahjo now because the other two

are simply a lot worse.

 

And all the fluff we get from the Chaos action is still only that... Fluff. I personally don't need a single one of that.

[Bittereinder 265]

One of the greatest features in this game is being able to play on PVP and PVE with the same character, items and skill.

 

Take this away and I'll find myself another game to play.

[Rasu 561]

Do you really think most of the kingdoms need the silver we make off wagon and banner sales? It all goes into res stones and other items like that. The fact you want more options so badly to come spout more crap on the forum about how you should have more options for wagons and banners when every single kingdom has its own set to work with just like freedom has there own set. If you want other banners and wagons than the freedom one go throw down your own pmk on chaos or buy some existing ones. If you are to cheap to pay for it that's your problem not ours. Each pmk had someone spends hours working on the design for everything related to there kingdom none of that was done by the artist that work for Rolf.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Do you really think most of the kingdoms need the silver we make off wagon and banner sales? It all goes into res stones and other items like that. The fact you want more options so badly to come spout more crap on the forum about how you should have more options for wagons and banners when every single kingdom has its own set to work with just like freedom has there own set. If you want other banners and wagons than the freedom one go throw down your own pmk on chaos or buy some existing ones. If you are to cheap to pay for it that's your problem not ours. Each pmk had someone spends hours working on the design for everything related to there kingdom none of that was done by the artist that work for Rolf.

 

"Too cheap?"  

 

WHEN HAVE WE SAID WE'RE NOT WILLING TO PAY FOR THEM?

 

And who the hell are YOU to say we're not able to draw our own assets too?

 

So if we pay for them, same price as on Chaos, and draw our own.... 

 

Go ahead, next asinine argument against it... 

 

 

"It all goes into res stones and other items like that. "

 

Ok so we ain't paying for your deeds but for your skirmishes instead.... does a dollar lose value if spent on gum instead of chocolate?

 

So far, it's really hard to draw any other conclusions from PvP's opposition to PvE bling other than fear of bruised egos and fear of Rolf getting the money we usually send your way (and don't you dare tell me HotA statues aren't sometimes sold for cash instead of silver).

 

Honestly, I may have my disagreements with Rolf, but I'd rather send him my money a million times rather than sending it to the tweens who can't help but troll every friggin Freedom-related thread, including ones about actual bugs and server performance issues, then have the nerve to say they're the best thing that ever happened for Wurm's ensured continuity (edit: that's when not telling people to outright leave the game when a bug is messing their gameplay up).

Edited June 14, 2015 by Mordraug

[Becket 843]

Last thing we need right now is another server, never mind one that would cater to the whims of a few.

[Uberknot 327]

PvP needs PvE to survive and was proven when Wild almost died then got connected....

 

PvE would still thrive and be fine if you removed PvP from the game no problem and proven with Pristine/Release.

 

Basically PvP in Wurm is Rolf's baby and he pushes a lot of coin and content at it hoping one day it will be more than it is.

 

SO far not much has worked and its the same ole players rehashed on new accounts for the most part.

[Mith 318]

Yegods there is alot of "Us" and "Them" in this debate theme. And every one seems to know better what the others think and want, and is able to speak for every. If we for a minut stop thinking about the other side of the fence as one uniform group, and accept they are individuals, then maybe old grudges against this or that fraction of the game, can be devided into something we can talk about, or reasons for this or that nerf or buff can be understood. All this mudslinging and name calling only leads to some dirty fences.

[Mordraug 2,542]

For the record, I'd like to state that I've never vouched for PvP to be removed..... 

 

Though naval warfare gets introduced I WILL find a way to blockade Chaos from the East... ARRR!  We have the numbers!

Pirate PMK ftw.

 

The code split is a serious need for Wurm to move forward.  ***In terms of mechanics***, PvP and PvE ARE two different games, there's clearly no reconciling.

 

As for monetizing PvE a drop with some eye-candy modalities including "1 gold player made art", wake up Rolf, it's not every day you run a business and the market tells you what it'd pay for, usually costs money and time to find out.  Chaos/Epic can have their 1g PMK's, we can have our 1g "Alliance with PMK-style unique visual distinctives".  And if some bored art team member comes up with 5 guard tower designs, sell us the bloody 1-shot recipes on traders for a reasonable (but not TOO cheap) fee so we can gather the mats and get to transforming our towers.

 

Ask any MMO developer out there.  Personalization SELLS.

 

If the PvP players (and I think they're a LOUD minority, the few reasonable ones that chime in from time to time are what explains how the pvp servers aren't one single big trolled lava field) that have your ear don't want to understand that, Rolf, do they really have your best interests in mind?

 

A 50 euro HotA statue isn't the same as 5 freedomers buying the "Hell Hound with Beer Mug" motif for their wagon at 10s each from a trader.  The 50 euro may come back to CodeClub's bank account in the form of a silver purchase, or may wind up spend on Steam games.  Wurm's too small for it to be players' source of irl profit/extra profit.  There's plenty of games out there from massive companies like Blizzard that can handle that hit.