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Wurmhole

Is PvP vs PvE becoming too agro?

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People are so confused about what pvp and pve are. PVP have nice communities who need eachother to survive and help eachother, work together and are almost completely friendly and welcomming. PVE is cut-throat where people dont give a ###### and do anything to earn some coin, including scamming, stealing and backstabbing eachother. Not just over coin but land, resources, or just because they can be mean to eachother. In many ways PVP and PVE on wurm are switched around, at least when it comes to what type of player plays where and their attitudes towards eachother.

Sad but true... This is so honest it hurts. I play a few weeks on pve and get sick of this "this is mine" attitude and relax a few months on chaos/epic. Do you know how to spot a pver on pvp server? He/she tries to buy everything!

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Oh come on... honestly why do you guys have to bring this black and white thinking to the table.


 


There are scammers on PvE side and you have spy alts on PvP side. One isn't better than the other.


 


But the majority on both sides just wants to play the game.


 


On PvE side people get together to build huge community projects like the colloseum on Deli.


 


On PvP side you join together in kingdoms and build up your defenses and such.


 


 


But please don't tell me that after you guys raided the villages, drained the hell out of them, destroyed every single structure,


dug every bit of dirt and sand so noone else may ever build there... you all, friend and foe, sit down in the evening and have a good laugh


about it.


 


Yes one part of the fun on PvE is making some money and buying other stuff you don't wanna make yourself.


 


But this is working together as well as digging a defendable dirt wall side by side.


 


All of you people reading this should know that you don't have to sit next to each other physically to have a good time together.


 


Or are all you PvPers sit together on a huge Lan Party every day playing Wurm?


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If you want free access to items from other kingdoms, join another kingdom and go make it yourself. No one is stopping you.

 

We never said "free", we said "the option to pay for PMK features on alliances" and many other variations WHICH INCLUDE PAYING THE SAME PRICES A PMK ON PVP WOULD INCLUDE.

 

That said, if you want funding for access to game features such as res-stones, join a company that pays better wages so you can go and pay for it yourself.

 

Support Rolf and send him money for shinies?  Sure, I like the game.  Support Chaos?  Nope... and much less with that attitude.

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People are so confused about what pvp and pve are. PVP have nice communities who need eachother to survive and help eachother, work together and are almost completely friendly and welcomming. PVE is cut-throat where people dont give a ###### and do anything to earn some coin, including scamming, stealing and backstabbing eachother. Not just over coin but land, resources, or just because they can be mean to eachother. In many ways PVP and PVE on wurm are switched around, at least when it comes to what type of player plays where and their attitudes towards eachother.

 

 

Sad but true... This is so honest it hurts. I play a few weeks on pve and get sick of this "this is mine" attitude and relax a few months on chaos/epic. Do you know how to spot a pver on pvp server? He/she tries to buy everything!

 

Srry but this is just ######, I lived in Cele my entire Wurm life, and of course had my quote of people I don't like but for the most part I've meet mostly good people, nice alliance mates, nice neighbors, and a bunch of helpful guys.

 

How weird, most of the bitter moments and scumbags I have to face while in Cele where at Unique's hunts, and go figure from where the scumbags had come by ...

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Oh come on... honestly why do you guys have to bring this black and white thinking to the table.

 

There are scammers on PvE side and you have spy alts on PvP side. One isn't better than the other.

 

But the majority on both sides just wants to play the game.

 

On PvE side people get together to build huge community projects like the colloseum on Deli.

 

On PvP side you join together in kingdoms and build up your defenses and such.

 

 

But please don't tell me that after you guys raided the villages, drained the hell out of them, destroyed every single structure,

dug every bit of dirt and sand so noone else may ever build there... you all, friend and foe, sit down in the evening and have a good laugh

about it.

 

Yes one part of the fun on PvE is making some money and buying other stuff you don't wanna make yourself.

 

But this is working together as well as digging a defendable dirt wall side by side.

 

All of you people reading this should know that you don't have to sit next to each other physically to have a good time together.

 

Or are all you PvPers sit together on a huge Lan Party every day playing Wurm?

 

Well I have to admit, one of the reasons I didn't get a deed somewhere on freedom ages ago, is that a few of my experiences with the mentality there wasn't positive.    I enjoyed most of the players and in general most of my experiences on Freedom have been positive, but there are many things that just arn't my cup of tea.   Many others like the community, and the ability to self-regulate on Chaos, and hell even reading between the lines here in this topic, I can quote a few players that are freedom players who I know understand how we work but probably don't believe us when we tell them it does work out simply because of their background with Freedom politics.      

 

The biggest problem with Freedom is that they have to be regulated with a ruleset that doesn't allow much self-reliance.   An entire alliance can KOS someone, or not let them use their infastructure like tunnels, etc, and be very unwelcoming, but really there isn't much they can do beyond that if the other party actually hasn't broken rules.    This has led me to many experiences with players just being plain rude, and ignorant, or being a pain in the butt because they know they arn't breaking rules that can be enforced, even if they are ruining someone else's project, or gameplay.    

 

It's not to say you can't get your gameplay experience compromised on Chaos, but it doesn't usually compromise your community.   In general you still have your mates and can fall back somewhere else in your kingdom if you lose your assets, it dosen't stop you from playing or enjoying the game most of the time.   The community you interact with everyday is generally well mannered, because they know there will be consequences from their leadership if they mistreat someone else.    They can't just go and screw someone over because it's allowed, because it isn't.  The kingdoms don't usually let much internal bickering go on, last incident we had was ages ago, and eventually the entire kingdom just got fed up with the individual and gave him the boot, after many attempts to mediate the problem.    

 

I'm not sure what to offer Freedom to help solve issues, or if there is anything I can do.  Its a totally different mindset, and I have little experience or right to try and tell you guys how to do things.  All I know is that Chaos offers a different type of community, and it should be here for people that can't fit in or do not like how things work in Freedom.    Same with Epic for the most part, they are in the same boat as us.   

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We never said "free", we said "the option to pay for PMK features on alliances" and many other variations WHICH INCLUDE PAYING THE SAME PRICES A PMK ON PVP WOULD INCLUDE.

 

That said, if you want funding for access to game features such as res-stones, join a company that pays better wages so you can go and pay for it yourself.

 

Support Rolf and send him money for shinies?  Sure, I like the game.  Support Chaos?  Nope... and much less with that attitude.

And if you'd like Rolf and Co to get rid of chaos purely because you don't like pvp, you ate welcome to play another game. There is no need for hostility here.

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And if you'd like Rolf and Co to get rid of chaos purely because you don't like pvp, you ate welcome to play another game. There is no need for hostility here.

 

For the record, I'd like to state that I've never vouched for PvP to be removed..... 

 

Try again, this time with a reasonable argument if you have any.  Or are you that convinced that Chaos would disappear without Freedom funding? ;-)

Edited by Mordraug

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Try again, this time with a reasonable argument if you have any.  Or are you that convinced that Chaos would disappear without Freedom funding? ;-)



 



 


For someone who tries to tote himself as not trying to remove PvP, you sure support removing the choice of Freedom players who want PvP to go to Chaos freely, and still interact with Freedom.   Either way, well good luck with trying to make assumptions on policy.     I can point out many direct examples where Rolf and other developers have both personally and publicly stated their intentions.    I can link you polls where your belief that Chaos being disconnected would be better, have been defeated time and time again.     


 


The problem isn't PvP players here.     The problem isn't Chaos, and I can give you examples that support that claim.  Can you give me examples, direct examples of reasons why trying to demonize, and pretend the players and not your personal opinions about policy here are the issue in this topic?      


 


Did "Our kind" as you call us, actually ruin your gaming experience?     Hell I'd at least assert you would have reason to claim it some PvP players poached a dragon on your doorstep, but I don't see even that being referenced here, and in any case it dosen't take a PvP player to do that.     I can name at least one example where a player from a PvE population directly interfered with a slaying event being conducted by a PvP group, but I don't see all players on PvE servers as bad people because of it, nor do you see me trying to say PvE should not mix with PvP or, be part of the same community simply because of that.     


 


So what is your beef with us?   You got a chip on your shoulder, just stop beating around the bush and trying to form a lynch mob, not that you seem to get many takers :D   


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For someone who tries to tote himself as not trying to remove PvP, you sure support removing the choice of Freedom players who want PvP to go to Chaos freely, and still interact with Freedom. Either way, well good luck with trying to make assumptions on policy. I can point out many direct examples where Rolf and other developers have both personally and publicly stated their intentions. I can link you polls where your belief that Chaos being disconnected would be better, have been defeated time and time again.

The problem isn't PvP players here. The problem isn't Chaos, and I can give you examples that support that claim. Can you give me examples, direct examples of reasons why trying to demonize, and pretend the players and not your personal opinions about policy here are the issue in this topic?

Did "Our kind" as you call us, actually ruin your gaming experience? Hell I'd at least assert you would have reason to claim it some PvP players poached a dragon on your doorstep, but I don't see even that being referenced here, and in any case it doesn't take a PvP player to do that. I can name at least one example where a player from a PvE population directly interfered with a slaying event being conducted by a PvP group, but I don't see all players on PvE servers as bad people because of it, nor do you see me trying to say PvE should not mix with PvP or, be part of the same community simply because of that.

So what is your beef with us? You got a chip on your shoulder, just stop beating around the bush and trying to form a lynch mob, not that you seem to get many takers :D

Mmmmultipost!

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Just stop feeding the trolls, those that post these pve vs pvp are the tiny minority of the pve players that are enjoying the game and the added depth of the game with pvp contents that they would never have had access to it.

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@Sparta's Fallout:

 

MR asked Rolf how they could break into a reinforced mine.

Rolf said they had to use disintegrate. MR did, had a succesful cast, but the reinforcement didn't break.

Rolf stated this was bugged and was not supposed to be the case and he fixed the bug.

 

Simple as that.

 

Let's put it in this scenario.

 

I made a mine.

The door killed me. The door killed my alt. The door killed my mayor.

The GM that responded stated it was a bug.

They did not give back any lost skills though the GM did do some magic on the mine.

 

Why is breaking a wall more important than restoring other lost stuff for bugs considering that broken wall gained the other side much.

 

People are so confused about what pvp and pve are. PVP have nice communities who need eachother to survive and help eachother, work together and are almost completely friendly and welcomming. PVE is cut-throat where people dont give a ###### and do anything to earn some coin, including scamming, stealing and backstabbing eachother. Not just over coin but land, resources, or just because they can be mean to eachother. In many ways PVP and PVE on wurm are switched around, at least when it comes to what type of player plays where and their attitudes towards eachother.

 

You know... I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with you. Freedom can be quite toxic. I think it's simply because if they did half the crap on Chaos or Epic that they do on Freedom, they would not live long enough after logging in to play the game. You guys on PvP would vigilante justice them into submission. Without fear of reprisals, some people will do anything possible, within the rules or not because "mechanics allow it," until they are finally banned for repeated rules violations. They have nothing to fear on PvE. All KoS is is an "I don't like you" greeting card. It doesn't take long to have the power to wipe out a tower of guards and if you can kill a troll, you can more than kill a templar.

Edited by Audrel

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Hoppy is the deadliest carebear I know. If we are talking about the same one, he'll probably kill me when I go back to Chaos next.

*sharpens rare axe collection* 

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I'm done.


 


Battlepaw, may wanna take a reading comprehension course, not gonna repeat myself ad nauseum for your trolling pleasures.


 


Starting to see why most of my friends' list "last logged in" days are in the triple digits.  My 6-month break must have really extended my fuse, but I'm no longer wondering why more and more of them are less and less on Wurm and talking to me more and more about other games.


 


Salud.

Edited by Mordraug

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I'm done.

 

Battlepaw, may wanna take a reading comprehension course, not gonna repeat myself ad nauseum for your trolling pleasures.

 

Starting to see why most of my friends' list "last logged in" days are in the triple digits.  My 6-month break must have really extended my fuse, but I'm no longer wondering why more and more of them are less and less on Wurm and talking to me more and more about other games.

 

Salud.

 

So... you came on here to rant and rave about "those dirty PvPers?"  Hell that's all I've seen you post here.

 

 

There are no "Them" there is only one community here.  We all play wurm and especially the ones that stick with the game for years, want to see it succeed.    What I'm pointing out here is that trying to use bigotry and creating convenient stereotypes does not solve the problem.   

 

I've see people in here complain about PVP getting unfair representation because they have special banners, or they can make their own wagons, etc.    Those complaints would be more constructively served as suggestions towards alliances being able to create their own alliance banners, wagons, etc.     I wouldn't mind seeing that.   I'm not against you and others that have mentioned that, just against your attitude.   The same can be said for many posters in this topic, especially the ones that want to try to pin personal blame on players for game mechanics, or try to say everyone who PvPs is against PvE players.  I certainly am not, and I don't know many PvP players that are.     PvE mechanics play just as big a role in our gaming experience, as anyone else here.   Many of my friends are almost exclusively PvE players, and only drop by for kingdom events, raids, etc.  

 

 

Mmmmultipost!

 

Heh... I don't think I've double posted for a very long time.... I try to avoid it sry mates.    

Edited by Battlepaw

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Those complaints would be more constructively served as suggestions towards alliances being able to create their own alliance banners, wagons, etc.     

 

You're clearly trolling without reading my posts, then =)

 

Read ones in suggestions' forum, "alliances with pmk functionality and same price tag" 

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I'm done.

 

Battlepaw, may wanna take a reading comprehension course, not gonna repeat myself ad nauseum for your trolling pleasures.

 

Starting to see why most of my friends' list "last logged in" days are in the triple digits.  My 6-month break must have really extended my fuse, but I'm no longer wondering why more and more of them are less and less on Wurm and talking to me more and more about other games.

 

Salud.

 

Well, 90% of my friends are all active, so we obviously have different friends.

 

You complain so much about everything in this game, I really wonder why you still play.  Yes, there is the argument 'I complain because I care' but at what point does get to much? I argue with you pretty much on every thread, so we actually see the game differently and thats fine. I just hope you enjoy it more than you dislike it :)

 

Anyway, I'm done with this thread, see you in the next one! :)

 

ps Other Games? do tell. I always like to have something on the side.

Edited by Milosanx

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You think this is bad.  I did not get an email notice saying my account was lapsing.  That is bad news. 


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You're clearly trolling without reading my posts, then =)

 

Read ones in suggestions' forum, "alliances with pmk functionality and same price tag" 

 

Hmmm, looked for it, kinda hard to sort through all the stuff though, half of the flame war topics are 5 pages deep.   Mostly been going by what you have been ranting about here.   Almost every post has been you taking an unnecessary dump on players, due to game mechanics, and or decisions made by development.   

 

I've been picking apart many posts in here, pointing out and setting an argument to many of them.    I haven't been trying to blame everything on them, or yourself.   Personally I think your attitude towards other people who play the game isn't too fantastic, but I'm not trying to point out your flaws because there is a personal reason, but to illustrate a trend in this topic that is destructive, and does not help the community at all.     

 

IF you think that is trolling.... er just look though some of the things you have uttered in this topic, and just how many people you've pissed off for no reason other than you think they are to blame for your problems, or with issues with the game mechanics.     If you think I'm trolling or derailing the topic, look at the OP.   There are people clearly who want a say in trying to end the sillyness that goes on between PvP players and PvE players.  I personally don't agree with the OP  (we certainly don't need more servers), but the topic is a valid one especially with how the bad feeling between players has been festering.

Edited by Battlepaw

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I think this post has gone in circles long enough.


 


The final tally is...


 


Wurm is a unique game where PvP and PvE are a simple sail away from each other. That's not going to change, so you might want to get used to it. Making life miserable for other people because they enjoy one side or the other makes you a troll and a griefer, regardless of what side of the coin you claim to be on. I don't care how you spin it, that is what you are. There are many ways to bring about positive change and the way many people have taken on this thread is wrong. You keep attacking each other, as if your keyboard battles will sway the balance and force the creator to do your bidding. They won't. 


 


You weaken your position, you dilute your words, and you look silly doing it. No progress is being made, at all, on either side of the debate. Mostly because there shouldn't be sides in this debate. We are all players in the same game, with the same problems and the same needs. We should be combining our energy and working toward the same goals. If you want to give suggestions to the developers, this is NOT how you do it.


 


I think this thread is far past it's expiration date. There have been some good posts though. Sadly, not everyone takes to reading those.


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the PvP vs PvE situation only is this bad because people keep making more posts about it, notice how one of these appeared, then another 3-4 sprouted up right after? People do it for the drama, most the time they dont know what they argue about/ care about the argument 


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The argument appears to have gone off on a very strange tangent - where people want PvP removed from Freedom. I personally am against this, as I don't want to lose that market. A lot of PvP'ers buy tools from me.


 


My gripe has more to do with CodeClubAB's habit of enforcing PvP changes on Freedom servers without even bothering to ask us first. I just hope people don't lump me in with the segregation crowd.


 


I hereby declare myself part of a new party. No longer am I part of the Anti-PvP crowd. I'm a part of the PvE Equality and Quality Assurance crowd: PvEQuality for all freedomers!


 


We want faster boats. We want the ability to use concrete without it being a mind-numbing hassle. We want Epic Gods to have developer oversight when they're added to Freedom. We want tamed pets to be useful. We want faster guards that react right away to save our helpless newbies from hungry spiders. We want a convenient to use UI where FOUR normal ropes can be accessed for different animals, in the same function as classic Mooring ropes did. We want to dredge rock underwater. We don't want another Rolf's Lunch. We don't want another Sparta "Bug Fix" leaking over to our side of the border.


 


We don't care if this will hurt PvP balance, because we're not asking you to add it to their gameplay! We're asking you to add it to our gameplay!


 


We want CodeClub AB to think, "How will this effect Freedom gameplay if we make this change?" alongside "How will this effect PvP balance?" - then, when the answer is "negatively", you keep it from being added to Freedom!


 


We want PvEQuality!


Edited by Dairuka
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If it becomes easier to make concrete pvpers will build stone walls instead of dirtwalls to avoid having to pvp for their goodie drops. Theres no need for faster boats, whats needed is to move Chaos to epic and let you keep your character when you use a portal and a fix for the dirt wall bug that wont let you dig under a building.


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If it becomes easier to make concrete pvpers will build stone walls instead of dirtwalls to avoid having to pvp for their goodie drops. Theres no need for faster boats, whats needed is to move Chaos to epic and let you keep your character when you use a portal and a fix for the dirt wall bug that wont let you dig under a building.

 

We don't care if this will hurt PvP balance, because we're not asking you to add it to their gameplay! We're asking you to add it to our gameplay!

 

Thank you for proving my point.

Edited by Dairuka

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Yes its a good point. This is a good example why Chaos is a problem for the development of Wurm and why the devs are trying to figure out a better way to make pvp work in Wurm. They tried Epic and they tried Challenge they havent tried anything with Chaos because its the problem they are tring to solve. It wont be fixed until its moved to Epic and they make pvp open to all through the Epic portals.


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Yes its a good point. This is a good example why Chaos is a problem for the development of Wurm and why the devs are trying to figure out a better way to make pvp work in Wurm. They tried Epic and they tried Challenge they havent tried anything with Chaos because its the problem they are tring to solve. It wont be fixed until its moved to Epic and they make pvp open to all through the Epic portals.

 

They've removed code, and added code exclusively for Freedom in the past.

 

A good example is the use of Disintegrate, which is exclusively for PvP only due to the overwhelming unpopularity of it's presence on Freedom.

 

PvEQuality would be to fix bugs and add mechanics changes exclusively to improve the PvE side of gameplay, even if it doesn't directly benefit PvP. By not adding the code to the PvP servers, you can keep your precious balance, and we'll actually have something we can add to the "Benefits PvE Only" Column on Postes' hilariously biased list.

Edited by Dairuka

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