Is PvP vs PvE becoming too agro?

[Audrel 2,223]

Answer me this: Did you sit down and do the art work to create the design that shows on the banner, wagon, and flags? Are you taking the risk of getting killed while sailing them off the server?

 

Ah, no. I don't have the option of uploading a banner and having it put on things. And no, nothing on PvE could ever kill a player. None of us have ever died making a delivery. We only fight bunnies and cockroaches here.

[Keenan 5,539]

For the record, I'd like to state that I've never vouched for PvP to be removed..... 

 

Though naval warfare gets introduced I WILL find a way to blockade Chaos from the East... ARRR!  We have the numbers!

Pirate PMK ftw.

 

The code split is a serious need for Wurm to move forward.  ***In terms of mechanics***, PvP and PvE ARE two different games, there's clearly no reconciling.

 

As for monetizing PvE a drop with some eye-candy modalities including "1 gold player made art", wake up Rolf, it's not every day you run a business and the market tells you what it'd pay for, usually costs money and time to find out.  Chaos/Epic can have their 1g PMK's, we can have our 1g "Alliance with PMK-style unique visual distinctives".  And if some bored art team member comes up with 5 guard tower designs, sell us the bloody 1-shot recipes on traders for a reasonable (but not TOO cheap) fee so we can gather the mats and get to transforming our towers.

 

Ask any MMO developer out there.  Personalization SELLS.

 

If the PvP players (and I think they're a LOUD minority, the few reasonable ones that chime in from time to time are what explains how the pvp servers aren't one single big trolled lava field) that have your ear don't want to understand that, Rolf, do they really have your best interests in mind?

 

A 50 euro HotA statue isn't the same as 5 freedomers buying the "Hell Hound with Beer Mug" motif for their wagon at 10s each from a trader.  The 50 euro may come back to CodeClub's bank account in the form of a silver purchase, or may wind up spend on Steam games.  Wurm's too small for it to be players' source of irl profit/extra profit.  There's plenty of games out there from massive companies like Blizzard that can handle that hit.

[Firestarter 1,210]

Surprisingly I find pvp side to be more helpful, generous, cooperative less self-centric than I had feared prior to trying it.  I've concluded this is the nature of the beast, in pvp you must bond and trust and work with your fellow man.

 

[Dairuka 888]

If you can give me some specifics where PvP has "ruined" or "made life worse", please do.

 

• Rolf's Lunch.

Taming.

Underwater Gating.

Concrete Slopes.

Mine Door Slope.

Man-made Rock Islands.

Guards.

Sparta's Fallout, and the Collapsing Reinforced Mine Walls on Freedom fiasco.

Lack of progress on important Freedom issues such as Boat speed for fear of PvP issues.

Counter-revolution against adding Bridges, because at one point, PvP'ers feared changes could topple engrained power structures.

Ascension. (Jury is still out on this one.)

I expect one of these to be argued, and the rest promptly ignored by the echo chamber of people clamoring for an end to the PvE vs PvP fights while they themselves instigate and perpetuate them.

 

Honestly? I welcome the PvE vs PvP debate. It shines some much needed attention on how Freedom is perceived by the minority of Wurm players that make up a vocal and disproportionate number of it's active forum posters. It also allows us many opportunities to air our grievances and dissatisfaction over certain changes that simply did not have those of us who PvE exclusively in mind.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Dairuka

[KunAlt 844]

 

• Rolf's Lunch.

Taming.

Underwater Gating.

Concrete Slopes.

Mine Door Slope.

Man-made Rock Islands.

Guards.

Sparta's Fallout, and the Collapsing Reinforced Mine Walls on Freedom fiasco.

Lack of progress on important Freedom issues such as Boat speed for fear of PvP issues.

Counter-revolution against adding Bridges, because at one point, PvP'ers feared changes could topple engrained power structures.

Ascension. (Jury is still out on this one.)

I expect one of these to be argued, and the rest promptly ignored by the echo chamber of people clamoring for an end to the PvE vs PvP fights while they themselves instigate and perpetuate them.

 

Honestly? I welcome the PvE vs PvP debate. It shines some much needed attention on how Freedom is perceived by the minority of Wurm players that make up a vocal and disproportionate number of it's active forum posters. It also allows us many opportunities to air our grievances and dissatisfaction over certain changes that simply did not have those of us who PvE exclusively in mind.

 

 

You forgot Armor penalty and Archery nerf.

[Dairuka 888]

You forgot Armor penalty and Archery nerf.

 

D'oh!

[MaurizioAM 919]

I'd have no problem if some kind of PMK but not a full PMK could be made on freedom. I believe freedomers also should be able,to make their own designs in a way, but I think the cost should either be doubled or the ability for freedomers outside of the PMV should be able to have a chance to make them. We on chaos can lose our PMK that we spent 1 gold for, but nothing can stop a PMV on freedom besides just quitting to play. There needs,to be some kind of equal balance between the 2.

As for HOTA, freedom gets treasure hints and many other events that pop up from time to time. Freedomers should not have the ability to have freely what pvpers have had to fight over for so long. And Fyi there at most kingdoms on chaos that surive without HOTA item sales and wagon sales.

The complaint about Botd... Lol really?

[thekraken 270]

By carts i guess you mean kingdom wagons.

 

So.. 

 

 

Really beneficial yeah, except we gotta pay you guys for them so how's that "benefit from being linked".

 

Towers/wagons/flags, functionwise, we can make those just as well by disconnecting Chaos.  Just with a single skin on the graphics available to us because God forbid PvP'ers lose that special feeling of being specially special on a special server for special people to be specially special on.

 

Glimmersteel and addy.... oh wait .... we ALSO gotta pay you guys for that.

 

BotD ..... wait.... we also gotta pay for that and not to a Freedom priest, and that said CoC + WoA do the same function.

 

So who's really benefitting?  Only reason none of those special metals, any equivalents, or the different kingdom items are craftable on Freedom is because of the massive hissyfit that would be thrown Rolf's way 2 seconds later, evident in the crying, whining, and tears of entitled PvP'ers, to use your culture's language...

 

Seems like way more benefit$ would be lost to you guys than us at Freedom if a disconnect were to happen.

 

Then again, we wouldn't be able to run our deeds at all if it weren't for HotA statues...... or was it you guys would have to disband a lot of stuff? =)

 

 

 

 

Those we pay Rolf for, still gotta prem new alts.  And only reason you guys aren't having your way and getting the "exclusive" BL gods removed from Freedom is because for once, Rolf's doing the financially sensible thing.

 

So based on what you just said everyone should give everything away for free? I'll take a longsword with coc, nim, AD, and FB and just mail it to me, but you pay for the cost...

 

You have just as much a right to all these items listed as the next, you can go to any server and join any kingdom and fight just like anyone else. Well I'm sure most kingdoms on chaos don't want you but thats your fault. Most players are welcome on chaos I'm sure of it, why would they want to turn away new recruits.

 

Now for PMK's custom graphics and assets. They pay 100s to found their PMK so why shouldn't they have the option for custom skins? If they chose to sell it to freedom thats their choice and I can't see one logical reason this hurts you at all.

 

Glimmer and addy - anyone can get them just go play on chaos, I don't see why their shouldn't be parts of the game that you can only obtain through the risk of PVP. Have you never heard of risk and reward?

 

Why are PVP'ers benefiting ? Because freedom players buy it. if you have such a problem with it don't buy it. if you don't buy it it'll never be a problem for you again.

 

The benefits you get on freedom? Variety, A major complaint I see on freedom is lack of variety in everything, well most of this stuff you've mentioned is variety to the player and if someone wants it everything has a price.

 

Basically they whole vibe i'm getting from you is the little boy down the road who is envious and spiteful because the other kid got a brand new shiny bike and he didn't.... but seriously man its a game are you getting envious of someone else's pixels?

[Ecrir 887]

 

• Rolf's Lunch.

 

 

That one probably takes the cake. I certainly hope that we will never suffer something as bad as that again.

[Anothernoob 102]

A PvE only cluster wouldn't get rid of the aggro between PvP and PvE. For example Epic is a completely different cluster yet both people from Epic complain about changes that started from Freedom and those from Freedom complain about changes that started from Epic.

 

As for the custom banners for PvE.. Sure add them but I want to have a checkbox for pack updates that will allow me NOT to download the extra graphics or to choose whose custom assets I want to download and show them as Freedom template to me if I don't have them. And of course downloading them should be unchecked by default. I won't be filling my hard disk because everyone and their cat (because let's admit it, if you didn't have the fear of getting raided you'd spend the cash for declaration of independence much much easier) will want to have their own unique looking wagons and tabards. Ofc such a type of a pmk shouldn't have anything like kingdom titles or upkeep discounts or robes.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Anothernoob

[Keenan 5,539]

 

• Rolf's Lunch. Ha.

• Taming. I've heard about this, and it may be the only point I might concede to. On the other hand, it could also be seen as a balancing issue on PvE as well. You do fight on PvE, just not with other players.

Underwater Gating. How? Was there a specific thread where someone from PvP servers demanded it removed? It seems a logical restriction to me otherwise. Something that shouldn't be allowed anyway.

Concrete Slopes. Again, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. You can already modify rock slopes with concrete and with leveling in caves. Explain?

Mine Door Slope. Mine door slope would be put under another "logical" fix I think. Unless you can link something that proves otherwise.

Man-made Rock Islands. .Rock islands? Again, why? This isn't logical either. How on earth would you apply concrete underwater anyway?

Guards. Guards - You mean you want them to be tougher on Freedom? I thought their strength was more due to the ability to KOS - which is on both sides. I could be wrong.

Sparta's Fallout, and the Collapsing Reinforced Mine Walls on Freedom fiasco. This I won't comment on, because there's so much misinformation out there and it always sparks a trolling debate. The fact is, Rolf made a change that he felt he needed to make.

Lack of progress on important Freedom issues such as Boat speed for fear of PvP issues. I'm not sure this is a valid reason, simply because with shared code, progress is equal on both sides. I think boat speed hasn't been touched because of other projects, such as bridges.

Counter-revolution against adding Bridges, because at one point, PvP'ers feared changes could topple engrained power structures. In spite of disagreements, bridges were added. The concerns were that they were not fully understood. This is shared on both sides of the coin as well though, as PvE has felt with the new feature of falling over fences. That doesn't matter as much on PvP, where we can kill intruders.

Ascension. (Jury is still out on this one.)  And this one... it doesn't matter if you're PvP or PvE, there's quite a number of opinions about it.

I expect one of these to be argued, and the rest promptly ignored by the echo chamber of people clamoring for an end to the PvE vs PvP fights while they themselves instigate and perpetuate them.

 

Honestly? I welcome the PvE vs PvP debate. It shines some much needed attention on how Freedom is perceived by the minority of Wurm players that make up a vocal and disproportionate number of it's active forum posters. It also allows us many opportunities to air our grievances and dissatisfaction over certain changes that simply did not have those of us who PvE exclusively in mind.

 

 

There. Nothing ignored.

 

Your post also reinforces my opinion though. Much of what you said goes both ways, and many changes you're mentioning came about because the creator of the game deemed it so. You can try to attribute things to a specific reason, to "place blame", but I just don't see it that way because I'm a bit more objective. You do your best to troll and derail most conversations, both in-game and on the forums, but I challenge you to rise above that here.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Keenan

[Bittereinder 265]

@Sparta's Fallout:

 

MR asked Rolf how they could break into a reinforced mine.

Rolf said they had to use disintegrate. MR did, had a succesful cast, but the reinforcement didn't break.

Rolf stated this was bugged and was not supposed to be the case and he fixed the bug.

 

Simple as that.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Bittereinder

[Mordraug 2,542]

I don't think anyone from Chaos/Epic is saying Freedom shouldn't be able to do something like a PMK.

 

You should have a peek at the PvP vs PvE thread on suggestions' section.

 

Heh... and most suggestion threads.

[Keenan 5,539]

You should have a peek at the PvP vs PvE thread on suggestions' section.

 

Heh... and most suggestion threads.

 

I have, and it was stated more than once that PvE should have to pay the same amount and do the same work. I'm going to assume you know the money and work involved in establishing a PMK, but not everyone does.

 

So yes, if PvE gathers the required people, spends the gold, and then submits the artwork - they should have the ability as well. The concern from those I've seen is that PvE seems to want it all, without paying for any of it or without working for it. That's not so much a PvP/PvE argument as it is a Wurm argument. It's a very grievous thing to want to make things easy here, if you haven't noticed. (That doesn't stop it from happening all the time, but I digress.) The other concern is exactly how much dev time does it take to implement a new PMK's artwork? Is that something that Code Club wants to open up broadly? The current requirements seem fair because they are limited. You don't go dropping PMKs all over Chaos/Epic because it's expensive, hard to muster up the required people, and if you don't plan right then you end up fodder for the more established kingdoms. Enabling it on Freedom, where people readily have more than a gold personally and could simply pay people to join up, that might be more trouble. There's a lot to consider, really.

 

The real bottom line is, what does Rolf want to do with his game?

[Battlepaw 585]

I have, and it was stated more than once that PvE should have to pay the same amount and do the same work. I'm going to assume you know the money and work involved in establishing a PMK, but not everyone does.

 

So yes, if PvE gathers the required people, spends the gold, and then submits the artwork - they should have the ability as well. The concern from those I've seen is that PvE seems to want it all, without paying for any of it or without working for it. That's not so much a PvP/PvE argument as it is a Wurm argument. It's a very grievous thing to want to make things easy here, if you haven't noticed. (That doesn't stop it from happening all the time, but I digress.) The other concern is exactly how much dev time does it take to implement a new PMK's artwork? Is that something that Code Club wants to open up broadly? The current requirements seem fair because they are limited. You don't go dropping PMKs all over Chaos/Epic because it's expensive, hard to muster up the required people, and if you don't plan right then you end up fodder for the more established kingdoms. Enabling it on Freedom, where people readily have more than a gold personally and could simply pay people to join up, that might be more trouble. There's a lot to consider, really.

 

The real bottom line is, what does Rolf want to do with his game?

 

I remember when the idea for tabbards was first mentioned, I suggested that they have different insignia depending on what alliance, and village you were part of, as well as adornments for acomplishments.   

 

I don't see why a village can't quarter their coat of arms on the freedom tabard if the system was introduced.   Many games I've worked with have an in-game paint utillity for small insignia for flags, etc.  In some cases you could also upload your images and it was textured onto flags, signs, etc.    

   

 

We'd also have them if Rolf took 5 seconds to read past the PvP belieber screams and accepted our cash along with our art submissions....

What does this have to do with PvP at all?  Just go and suggest things like town heraldry, coats of arms, or freedom alliance flags, etc.   I don't see why Rolf can't introduce alliance banners.  With all the "outcry" you have against PvP players, have you once ever tried to suggest things instead of trying to bicker with players from chaos about them?   

 

As for "the risk", what happened to the no-gank honorable PvP y'all keep mentioning when telling us to come over?

 

In my experience, the way people treat each other, goes a long way in terms of how the PvP plays out.  There are many times I've seen people with good reputations, and laid back attitudes get along fine with their enemies here and the PvP in those cases tends to be more about the actual PvP in many cases instead of loot.  When I got killed by a JKer a few years ago, I struck up a conversation with them and he graciously left me my enchanted blade, instead of keeping it despite how decent it was.  I've had similar experiences since them.  The way the different players and communities interact goes a long way towards how PvP plays out.  

 

As for "the risk", you suddenly make it sound like you ONLY risk your toon's "life" for bringing us those wagons we can't play without, but otherwise would NEVER be in PvP-risky situations.

 

All of Chaos outside deeds is risk.  It's not just the risk of dying, but having one of those stupid val cridder spawns on you while sailing in a breeze or something. I was killed by a Drakespirt spawn while sailing under a breeze just like that, and my Knarr was stuck right next to an enemy held island until I got help to retrieve it.   The risk is there, and very real, especially for BLers, and Ebonaura guys that often have to sail through enemy control or at least along enemy-held coastlines to bring them.  They are risking their boat, which is likely to at least be a Knarr, not just their player.   They are risking affinities, and loot, to bring things like those wagons to players on Freedom.   

 

And as for "the risk", TAKE ESCORT!  You guys are soooo united I'm amazed you'd let your traders travel solo on deliveries.

 

Escort doesn't mean you will win a boat fight.   It just means you might have more players than the other guy, but doesn't mean you will win.   I do most of my sailing solo, or with my crafting alt, and that isn't the fault of my kingdom.  I try to sail with mates when I can, but most of the time I will just wait until I get wind, and from the right direction, and plan my tacking so that I can escape any pursuit.   Deciding to do things yourself is part of the risk, and part of the gameplay on Chaos.   I do things to mitigate that risk, and so do my enemies.   

 

Also.... who gives a rat's arse about the risk?  What matters is funding Wurm, which we on PvE are willing to do, and you guys on PvP are willing to undermine for the sake of your own pockets and egos.

 

Opposing your viewpoints is not undermining.   It's debate, if we have a solid reason for debating you, you should respond with your own arguments, and your own suggestions.    "You guys" is just you trying to stereotype in a vain attempt to prop up your argument by creating a stereotype.   Not every player on Chaos has the same viewpoints as every other player, and many actually spend most of their time on Freedom and are essentially here for weekends, etc.    They have as much stake in the things you can do on Freedom as anyone else.  

 

If you're so excessively low on cash that you'd prefer CodeClub's bank account not grow so you can keep selling stuff to PvE, sounds like keeping your kind is a bigger "risk" to CodeClub than any "risk" you take travelling to freedom for a quick buck.

 

I don't know if I should offer you a world history lesson on anti-semism or the history of the KKK, or if I should point out that Rolf personally oversaw the formation of the first PMK on Epic, and has as the creator and developer of Wurm a massive vested interest in seeing PvP succeed.   That said, he has also put just as much time into introducing many features that are PvE exclusive, such as organizing treasure hunts, allowing GMs to participate in Freedom events, and use their powers to spawn creatures, etc.   I personally think you really haven't figured much out yet about how Wurm is run, and CodeClub's goals, nor are you in any position to try and dictate to us what they are.    

 

Seriously, Rolf... you keep catering to people who don't give two craps about your business or its financials and would rather see it sink than let their fragile egos get hurt by the non-PvP crowd having shiny stuff.

 

I pay my subscription, I don't use silver for it.   As far as I know, this is the norm amoung not just Chaos players, but often on Epic as well. These people directly help Rolf pay for server upkeep, and fund art devlopers, etc.  If you want to try and point out we are in the minority, that is all and good.  That is true,  but in general most of us have stuck around despite the buggy PvP system, the constant lag issues, broken mechanics, etc.   That alone shows massive support and a vested interest in seeing wurm succeed. That is a far cry from "not giving two craps" about CodeClub. 

 

Once again, if you guys are such supeeeerioooor players, why are you so terrified of someone taming a couple of hell hounds and bringing them into a battle? What's stopping you from crafting a fishing rod and catching a wolf?  

 

Why are you so terrified of Freedomers having more shineys to play with, you'd think ***supeeerioooor*** players would find ways to make ingame money without needing the game's creator to code them exclusives pretty much for that sole purpose.

 

Only thing worse than a noob is a noob with an overfed ego.

 

I'm not sure if you are refering to yourself, in mentioning an "noob with an overfed ego" or trying to to tell PvPers how to actually PvP... which would make sense if you had the slightest understanding of our situation here.   Honestly trying to decipher this statement is like me trying to puzzle out why a crazy person thinks the voices in their head make sense.    If you are eludeing to several players that PvP being against reverting the pet CR nerf I do have some memorable experiences such as being attacked by a tame nogump, and once reading an entire thread about a tame white dragon hatching rampage along the shoreline next to Pizza (OLD MR wardeed next to the second WL location)   back in the day.    

 

There are a few reasons why the nerf was introduced as well as many other taming restrictions, I wouldn't be against removing it, just against having to put up with nogumps and tame dragons.         

 

 

 

 

I am a PvP player, but most people know just how much of a freaking carebear I am, most of my time is spent working on kingdom projects.  The rest typically (at least before I took a break) was spent just doing random things around the kingdom, such as road repair, brickmaking, etc.     The thing I enjoy the most is just hunting and living on Chaos.   The PVE enviroment provided by things like val cridders, and complete lack of infastructure in most of the server, such as roads, tunnels, etc just makes it a harder survival experience.  The community here is very tight, an a lot of fun to be a part of.   The risk means you have to plan things out carefully, and not just romp around as you please, but weigh your options and use your wits.    

 

I've seen a lot of complaints about not enough time spent on PvE, but a few people seem to be lobbying for all the benefits of what players here get, but not many are asking for harder mobs, val creatues, etc.  Hell I pointed out several times just how many players are opposed to them.    The definition of PvE, is player vs environment, but it seems to me to be more about the quest for bling bling, well keeping score if you count all the recent topics about PvP vs PvE nonsense.   

 

Before you try to pretend all PvP players are some sort of evil masterminds in a conspericy to rob PvE players of their expected handouts from Rolf, please remember that this is at heart a survival game.  If you want suggestions, point your fingers towards more enviorment changes and not blaming us for being slightly peeved you want what we do work for here, by plaing the game, protecting our assets and sinking money into our deeds.    Hell, when I got my freaking base smooshed flat in Ark a week ago by a random dino, I was thrilled and encouraged, because that had never happened to me in a PvE situation in a sandbox, where the local wildlife could actually destroy your entire base.  Even in minecraft, the most damage that could be done by a Creeper was minimal.     In 7 days to die, the AI was so stupid they couldn't even figure out how to get into your base properly most of the time.   

 

Wurm, isn't like that, though sometimes I think perhaps it should be in some ways, though I've noticed my own thoughts are not shared by many in the actual PvE commuity here.   I know most of the players on freedom I've met are great people, and I enjoy most of the events I go to, however I don't like how people try and portray Chaos players as their enemy, when we interact and help make Freedom a better place.   We help get our HOTA statues to you, I know much of our loot often ends up in the economy on Freedom, and often we swell the cofers of merchants when we stop by for events. 

 

It isn't our fault we need glimer and addy for PvP, and don't want to sell it to PvE players.   It has nothing to do with any moral argument.  It's a simple fact of the game mechanics.   The reasons we argued against it being done on freedom was that we work to defend our HOTA, have lost numerous deeds, and sunk countless hours into trying to keep the upper hand in the area.   This also restricts our enemies ability to gain those weapons without having to actually PvP.   There is no paticluar reason to blame PvP players for trying to keep their hard work from being rendered useless, only questions as to why others on the forums have a total lack of empathy for their fellow players.    

 

Yet, all I see here is PvP players being demonized.    There is nothing here that is of any substance, and hasn't been in numerous bigotry inspired flame wars in the past, only the same old forum trolls standing up and trying to pin every one of their woes, and create a false sterotype.     

 

There is no "PvP player" that you can generalize.  Each player on Chaos has their own way of playing, and in my experience has massively impacted the Freedom community for the better, though help with events, by inviting people to slayings (even if it's private loot).   Trying to say otherwise completely ignores the majority of players that play here.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Tekari 133]

In my opinion it's not the PvP players who are the problem and I think many PvE players would agree on this.

 

It's the priorities of Rolf about how development time is spent and the decisions of him how to implement things.

 

 

A lot of time is being spent with the goal of getting more people into PvP which (and let's be honest here) isn't Wurm's strong side.

 

And compared to the numbers of PvP and PvE players there's rather little time spent on developing PvE stuff.

[mthoodyn 56]

Chaos was not part of freedom from the start so why would they remove freedom? If they were to split the pvp and pve then seems logical to me that chaos should be the one to be removed. We for sure don't need new servers so to split the group then moving chaos is the only option...well unless you want to lose 400-500 players with your suggestion.

 

Anyway neither one will happen so all this topic is doing it perpetuating the pvp vs pve thing anyway, lol

And dont know if we played the same game?

But it started with 1 single server that had full pvp.

Then came Another server "homeserver" for pve.

Then after that it all Went downhill tbh. The most fun times to play was when we only had 1 single server, but it was also fun to play with ONLY home and wild servers.

Now its to many servers, to many sorcery stuff, to many gods and Epic events that affect the original one and only server CHAOS!

At one time Rolf even opened up home "pve" server for pvp, could travel there to pvp lol. That was fun times. Maybe something to do now again?

[irobotnik8 81]

Freedom and chaos are linked via trade. If freedom gets moon metals, they will lose their advantages in pvp because everyone will have a no-risk way of obtaining them and therefore everyone will eventually have them. People who sell such metals to freedom will also lose that income, though I don't think there are many who do that. If freedom and chaos are separated, those of us who play on both (MANY players) will lose the ability to earn cash. there is NO cross-kingdom trade on chaos. All enemy players are (usually) killed on sight. Why should you care? why does it matter? Because this "us vs them" mentality is a construct, a fabrication. Chaos is a freedom server and should be left as is.

To those of you who MUST have moon metals or hota statues on freedom, think of it this way:

There is nothing stopping you from going to chaos for those items. When you get there and try boulder hunting or hota, you will be killed and the strongest kingdom will take whatever you were after. That biggest kingdom will always win (until it loses momentum and falls apart). You have to buy from this kingdom.

Let's say hota moves to freedom. Now whoever has the biggest alliance willing to work together will always win hota. Why? Because unless you are the only one interested in hota, it requires teamwork. Either way, you will have to buy from this alliance. Nothing changes, only that pvpers who sell to freedom lose some of their profit.

 

If you absolutely MUST have moon metal or other special gear, I know some kingdoms will reward you with such gear if you work hard. They won't give away good gear to just anyone -- you really have to work for it, but if you need good gear ASAP, your best bet is to join a kingdom and work hard.

Edited June 15, 2015 by irobotnik8

[Ayes 3,715]

I have no problem with pvp players doing their own thing on the pvp servers. If they are better or worse players or have a better or worse community that PvE players is of no concern either, as well as the necessity for group play influencing this.

 

The problem arises when pvp concerns influence PvE coding, timers, abilities and on and on. Or having exclusive pvp items transported to the PvE servers for sales profits.

 

If Rolf ever decides to isolate the pvp items and influences from the PvE servers, then the PvE players will have no further justifications to make complaints about the pvp part of the game. Until then the battle and divide that *he* has created between them will rage on, justifiably.

 

=Ayes=

[Proximo 402]

I think we just need a code split.  Some of the nerfs to PVE because of PVP balance issues have been outrageous, others just head scratchers.

 

 

Answer me this: Did you sit down and do the art work to create the design that shows on the banner, wagon, and flags?

 

We would love to!  Is there a reason you MUST engage in killing other people to sit down and design banners and wagon colors?  Sorry but that makes no logic sense, nor does it promote balanced gameplay.

[Syntrix 58]

-1, population doesn't need to be split any further.

 

Everything past the OP idea has been taken over by players shouting lots of "us" and "them" and justifying themselves with "but, history!" and "but, other threads!".  Stop it!

 

[Ryuking 4]

While your at it we can always take away freedom servers and make everyone live on epic so that the economy side of wurm is actually a economy. 1 server system is all they need because there is PVE and pvp within epic so that's what we need no freedom ( which isnt actually free since ther are so many rules you have to follow) and all epic.

[Rasu 561]

We would love to!  Is there a reason you MUST engage in killing other people to sit down and design banners and wagon colors?  Sorry but that makes no logic sense, nor does it promote balanced gameplay.

[irobotnik8 81]

It is balanced. It is fair to everyone. If you refuse to play on chaos or epic, you belong to freedom isles. You get access to freedom isles designs and banners. Those others in other kingdoms get access to their own kingdom items. Yes, they get access to freedom isles stuff, but only when they use characters that are part of Freedom isles. If you want free access to items from other kingdoms, join another kingdom and go make it yourself. No one is stopping you.

[Judicator 539]

People are so confused about what pvp and pve are. PVP have nice communities who need eachother to survive and help eachother, work together and are almost completely friendly and welcomming. PVE is cut-throat where people dont give a ###### and do anything to earn some coin, including scamming, stealing and backstabbing eachother. Not just over coin but land, resources, or just because they can be mean to eachother. In many ways PVP and PVE on wurm are switched around, at least when it comes to what type of player plays where and their attitudes towards eachother.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Judicator