How newer players will never be as good as the vets

[Macadelic 199]

WHY does it ruin it?? I'm busting your chops about this a lot because you seem like a really nice person, and I hope you'll have a perspective shift and realize, what the hell everyone else is doing does not affect how happy you can be. Why should what anyone else did bear any influence on how you feel about something nice you did? You set out to do something, and you achieved it. That's great, right there. What anyone else was doing has nothing to do with it. Even what they think about it has no reflection on it. If you feel you must compete, then round up a fair competition, with other people who agree that's what they're actually doing, and all of you play by the same rules. How does worrying about what other people are doing make any sense in the way you're applying it? I have no idea you are "competing" with me. I don't buy an account because of how it might affect you or anyone else - I have like zero patience for repetitive tasks. Your own achievements can't be "ruined" by what anyone else is doing, ever.

 

This is especially true in a PvE lands. The only true, player competition that could exist in this environment is via business strongholds.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Macadelic

[Hailene 362]

Ah this idea is part of the problem with people wanting enchant decay. How about if everyone focuses on getting  NEW BLOOD into the game, instead of resenting and milking more out of the handful who stay. Imagine all the newbies you could be selling to, and being a kind mentor to and thereby their go-to person for sales, if there WERE some.

 

But without decay, prices would continue to deflate as the market gets flooded with higher casts.

 

Enchants aren't even necessary to play the game.  If you don't want to use them, you can still get a full game experience without them.

 

It sounds a bit entitled to want enchants without expecting the people who worked hard for them to receive some just compensation.  If you think the price for them is too high to bear, then either start doing some in-house enchanting (invite a priest to your village/alliance to cast for you, level up a priest, or buy one) or do without.

 

It's strange to feel "being milked" for purchasing an unnecessary luxury.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

But without decay, prices would continue to deflate as the market gets flooded with higher casts.

 

Enchants aren't even necessary to play the game.  If you don't want to use them, you can still get a full game experience without them.

 

It sounds a bit entitled to want enchants without expecting the people who worked hard for them to receive some just compensation.  If you think the price for them is too high to bear, then either start doing some in-house enchanting (invite a priest to your village/alliance to cast for you, level up a priest, or buy one) or do without.

 

It's strange to feel "being milked" for purchasing an unnecessary luxury.

 

The problem is not the flooding, the problem is there's not an influx of new customers needing those items.

 

I do not begrudge the makers of these items a fair pay. I am shocked that they're willing to do that much work for so little in return. If you don't believe me, ask around. And, I buy extra, in case I lose mine or wear one all the way down on accident, or I need spares for new people starting up with me. Which I give away to these friends, and then buy more, at full market price.

 

I WANT to play with these enchants. They make me happy. I know I could try to play the game totally naked and bare-handed. I want to play how I want to play. Already I can kill all the beasts alone except the huge champs and rares, but if there were suddenly 7 more enchants I could add to my weapons, I'd want every. single. one.  And I'd pay full market price, for every last one of them. Because they make me happy. But I don't expect to RE-PAY on the SAME WEAPON just to support people who want to play MARKET.

 

The fact that there are not new customers available is NOT MY FAULT. In fact, I try my hardest to give feedback about what I'd be willing to pay extra for, and the things I know that have made people quit, and the things that turn me (and therefore others) off about the game. I am here to play SANDBOX, not MARKET. I think it's acting entitled to assume that some people who want to play MARKET think it's cool to keep forcing people who already paid for the items they want, to keep having to pay for the same exact thing over and over and over, because of a problem with population. I already do have priests who can do the enchants, two priests of each. I STILL don't want to have to buy the enchants again, or do them myself, over and over and over. Isn't it entitled to force upon me the kind of game play you want? Just because there aren't enough new players to pay for the stuff YOU feel like enchanting, because that's how YOU like to play?

 

It does not benefit me in any way for the things I pay for to decay. If I will pay premium on a toon, and pay for a deed, then I don't need to pay again and again and again for the things I keep on them. It's not fair, and it's damn boring. I'm playing SANDBOX. Adjust the problems with player attrition and lack of interest, if there's some kind of need for a MARKET game. Don't take it out of my hide.

 

 

 

I am not feeling "milked" for paying a fair price for enchants. I do it gladly. I AM feeling milked to make up for the bad decisions that keep the game so tiny that crafters can't rely on new customers to sell to, and the solution seized upon is to make the current paying customers just repay and repay and repay. Decay unused items to get them off the server. Lay off the stuff I have paid for and keep paying for with my premiums and deed payments.

[Hailene 362]

The math doesn't add up, though.  With more players we have more crafters, more priests...it scales with the population.

 

So say in 2 years we have three times as many players.  Well, chances are we'll have (somewhere around) three times the number of crafters and enchanters.

 

In either case, we need the enchant decay to sustain the market.  It's like why companies use planned obsolescence in their product development.  In a short while, everyone has what they want and the economy dries up.

 

On a side note, I hardly think enchant decay is a driving reason for the small population.  I'd figure most people quit way before they realize 1. Enchants are a thing and 2. Enchants wear off after prolonged use.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

I think what people are getting at is 'life isn't fair'. That is true. 

 

 

Wurm doesn't have to be life. 

 

Actually, it does.  People are involved, and those who were there first will always have the advantage, just like life.

[Tsetse 87]

The math doesn't add up, though.  With more players we have more crafters, more priests...it scales with the population.

 

So say in 2 years we have three times as many players.  Well, chances are we'll have (somewhere around) three times the number of crafters and enchanters.

 

In either case, we need the enchant decay to sustain the market.  It's like why companies use planned obsolescence in their product development.  In a short while, everyone has what they want and the economy dries up.

 

On a side note, I hardly think enchant decay is a driving reason for the small population.  I'd figure most people quit way before they realize 1. Enchants are a thing and 2. Enchants wear off after prolonged use.

 

You are right, decay is a central part of Wurm and thats why Wurm has a nice and functional market. Decay creates things to do and adds to the addictive nature of Wurm because as you do one task the decay on your tools naturally creates another task for you. It is not even worth it to stay on top all the time which is how it should be.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

You are right, decay is a central part of Wurm and thats why Wurm has a nice and functional market. Decay creates things to do and adds to the addictive nature of Wurm because as you do one task the decay on your tools naturally creates another task for you. It is not even worth it to stay on top all the time which is how it should be.

 

I want a CHOICE about what I do and what I pay for. I have way too many tasks already! I can't keep up. I don't want to repeat stuff I did already, I have enough to do that I didn't do yet. The enchant decay is creating an artificial market, and partly off my hide. I paid already. I don't need to keep paying, I did not sign up to play Market. I don't need to be forced to play this game like a work hostage, I want to play because I like it. I don't want to be "on top," I just want to play the way I want to play. It is not justified to make people pay and pay for the same item because there are no new customers. This is partly WHY there are not enough new customers. If there needs to be decay, let people choose if they want to have it. It doesn't benefit me in any way, my play does not take money and time and happiness out of other peoples' pockets, and I don't want it. And absolutely don't suddenly add it to weapons I've paid for!

 

For all of you folks who run out of things to do - come on down! I don't think my list is ever under 20 things that need doing. Or chat me up in the game, I'll help you remember what you forgot about. 

[Hailene 362]

But you're not paying for the same item.  You're paying for a new enchant on it.

 

It's like buying a new engine for your car after you've driven it for 200,000 miles or something.  Things get worn down and you have to replace it.

 

Or like cooking food or making bricks.  You use up the food or bricks.

 

 

 This is partly WHY there are not enough new customers.

 

I say there are fewer customers not because of skill decay, but because the sheer number of crafters (or at least dabblers that do in-house work) greatly exceed the market demand.

 

By removing decay, you just swing the demand curve to the left (reducing it) since less people need to buy new enchants.  This would further worsen prices and force prices to drop.

 

Would some people be willing to shell out money for higher enchants knowing they'd be permanent? Sure.  Would it compensate for the vast majority of people who buy enchants, anyway? Extremely doubtful.

 

And, again, if you do not want to continue to pay for enchants, stop buying them.  They're even less necessary than high QL tools.

 

And for the last time, getting rid of enchant decay would not help crafters.  It would only worsen the situation.  Enchant decay was implemented precisely because the market was being flooded with high quality enchants.

[Gaeron 551]

This post was about the nerf to skill gain ticks over the years.

 

 

 Wurm is in a much better place today as a whole than it was years ago but I stand on my original statement Vets had a much a easier time gaining certain skills before than the newbies of today have.

Which is it, the first line implies all skills, the second says specific ones. So which skills?

 

If there are a few which are harder then so what? because every other skill is now easier to grind.

 

As for comparable to vets..... thats easy, grind more hours in a day than a vet does today and you are catching up, grind less and you'll fall behind. Different vets put different amounts of effort into their toons so some are easier to catch up on, some are harder.  Its all about effort invested.

[Klaa 4,872]

Personally this situation was better when we had skill decay on skills over 70 (not that Im complaining about having it gone ).
 
However, its still more than possible to catch up.
 
Skill gain at higher levels tends to lower exponentially. Thus all the monkeying around players do to try to keep the rates up.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Klaa

[Ayes 3,715]

This is a wonderful thread! Why? Certainly not because of the OP who has recently popped up out of the nether to dispense their wisdom. It is because of many of the responses from players who have been around in game for years sharing their experiences and pointing out how the game has progressed making it more enjoyable (easy too) for everyone that plays this unusual game.

 

If you do not respect these experiences and time spent in game by these "Vets" then you simply don't respect the game concept itself. I think Alyeska's list was far too brief on things that exist now to aid in assisting the new player to give them many advantages that these "Vets" did not have available. Only their determination and some special attraction has held them tightly to the game all these years.

 

Best to take some time to reflect upon these things pointed out and devote some effort into putting them into practice oneself. Everything is earned over time playing the game and with the time put into it these possibilities expand. Not for the impatient to have everything to be sure and even then occasionally some very old "Vet" accounts come up for sale whereby the impatient can shortcut this whole process, although you will still lack the real knowledge of experience and accomplishment to back it all up.

 

Face the fact, there will always be those in game more skilled and knowledgeable then yourself. Why? Because they have been here long before you even knew to make an attempt to try and most likely will still be here long after you have departed. Read again through this thread and you might get a glimmer of what it is all about to be a "Vet". And yes, of course they would still be here playing through all these obstacles that you have never encountered yourself, since the progress of the game in the ways pointed out have made it all that more enjoyable (easy by your definition I guess) to stick around.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

[ownerpure5 322]

Challenge everybody, Challenge..

[Mebourne 13]

My cousin start playing Wurm for the first time a few weeks ago, so I created a new toon and have been playing from scratch. It's been a great experience even though I have 3 main characters that I could easily use to come complete the tasks with with relative ease. Those mains don't come near the new deed and we are working from scratch.

 

There have been so many improvements for new players overthe last year or two. There is no real need to compete or compare stats with other players in Wurm on the PvE servers, maybe more on PvP. The only reason to have high end skills is to sell those items and all you need to do is focus on a task and you can make that crafter pretty quick, but again all that focus is on the ability to make in-game silver which can just as easily be bought to support development.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Mebourne

[AAetius 133]

Play on Epic, problem solved. close thread.

 

 

Skill gain is better on Epic.   + a skill curve

[LorraineJ 1,099]

And for the last time, getting rid of enchant decay would not help crafters.  It would only worsen the situation.  Enchant decay was implemented precisely because the market was being flooded with high quality enchants.

 

A question then. Now that we have new gods every week - do you see no coincidence that suddenly as that started to happen, the bunch of weapons with high quality enchants that I JUST paid for was massively worth less, without even warning me? That it was slipped in so I could yet again support another kind of game play that I do not partake in? When there are 73 gods, how is it planned that I manage to pay for that? Will I have to pay for new enchants daily?

 

I'm sorry, but where does it end? I have to re-pay for enchants to support other players on my weapons now too? What do I get? This is BORING and expensive. How about eliminating shatter? How about minusing off some of the glitches and boring timers that I have to live through every time I play to offset the time I have to waste rounding up an enchanter who's not busy, and mailing off my weapon to them, and paying to get it back, AGAIN? You can only mail something ten times?? How about you can mail it as many times as you need to, and for free when it's something that you're paying for AGAIN just to support the pointed refusal to realize there has to be new blood in the game.

 

How about stating right up front - this isn't a sandbox, it's a market. And there is no PvE, there's PvP and PvG.

 

You can't band-aid a problem by squeezing more out of your current loyal customers. And you can't take and take from them without giving back. At the very LEAST - how about announcing up front, ok we've eliminated shatter during casting, but weapons are going to have a very very small decrease to enchants with use. Not this unannounced massive change to game play, to support the new weekly gods and a market that not everyone plays.

Edited June 11, 2015 by LorraineJ

[Arvid 64]

Actually, it does.  People are involved, and those who were there first will always have the advantage, just like life.

Not quite I'd say. In real life people grow old, wither and eventually die, giving room for the next generation. That's not the situation with Wurmian toons.

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Not quite I'd say. In real life people grow old, wither and eventually die, giving room for the next generation. That's not the situation with Wurmian toons.

 

That part I will agree with.  I've never been a fan of selling toons, they should retire with the player, not be sold.

[Simyaci 385]

Retiring a character should give bonuses on on the new toon created using the retire, depending on which skills are what level Bonuses could be exp bonuses like affinity, improve fail chance reduction depending on skill level of the retired and also some other bonuses that make retiring a high level character something to think about along with a brand new name. This way a person who buys a high toon can just retire it and start his own experience brand new with extra bonuses worth his money The bonuses don't have to be extremely OP, just good enough to make people consider it and actually use it. It would also have to be unabusable, like very looooow bonus for medium and low skills and the bonus becomes much bigger and bigger the higher the skill gets. Certainly not like 2x bonus for 20 skill 8x bonus for 80 skill but a bonus depending on how hard it is to grind different level skills

Edited June 11, 2015 by Simyaci

[Vroomfondel 1,128]

Play on Epic, problem solved. close thread.

 

 

Skill gain is better on Epic.   + a skill curve

 

 

Always some pvp player telling the pve players to go pvp.  *sigh*  We don't want to play your game, get that hrough your head.

[Simyaci 385]

They need more newbies to kill on sight due spy paranoia/just pure risk free fun murder and also get rid of the beginner tools in their corpses

[Hailene 362]

A question then. Now that we have new gods every week - do you see no coincidence that suddenly as that started to happen, the bunch of weapons with high quality enchants that I JUST paid for was massively worth less, without even warning me?

 

Uh, why would your weapons be worth less?

 

I'm sorry, but where does it end? I have to re-pay for enchants to support other players on my weapons now too? What do I get?

 

What do you get? You get exactly what you're paying for, the LUXURY of having a temporary enchant on your weapon.

 

Once you understand the enchant is temporary like most things: tool QL (due to damage), meals (due to consumption and decay), commodity goods (bricks, mortar, planks), then you'll be good to go.

 

You're paying for an ephemeral good and complaining you're paying for it again.  It's not.  You're buying a new enchant after the previous worn out, just like some many other things.

[Klaa 4,872]

*waves his cane around and mutters

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7091-damned-kids

[Bloodscythe 2,225]

Locked at OP request