Bring Back Weapon Chant Decay

[Lotus1 315]

As I stated. My weapons and tools are the same price. If you're paying more for weapons, you're being ripped off.

 

So a 90+ woa pickaxe is going to cost the same as a 90+ LT weapon along with other enchants?

[Gumbo 1,563]

No please proceed, I want to see your brilliant and well thought out arguments.    

 

 

 

Didn't you leave?

[Gumbo 1,563]

So a 90+ woa pickaxe is going to cost the same as a 90+ LT weapon along with other enchants?

 

A 90ql CoC pickaxe would cost the same as a 90ql coc weapon of the same coc value.

That's comparable, not yours.

 

Edit- and this is my point. Why should one of those things have decay on the chant and not the other one?

Edited June 5, 2015 by Gumbo

[Lotus1 315]

A 90ql CoC pickaxe would cost the same as a 90ql coc weapon of the same coc value.

That's comparable, not yours.

 

Except, correct me if I'm wrong, but people want LT and other casts more than coc. Therefore, if you're talking about people buying what they want, comparing a coc tool with a coc weapon is not comparable.

 

The typical high end weapon a player buys costs far more than the typical high end tool. Whether you like it or not, that is the comparison.

[Gumbo 1,563]

Except, correct me if I'm wrong, but people want LT and other casts more than coc. Therefore, if you're talking about people buying what they want, comparing a coc tool with a coc weapon is not comparable.

 

The typical high end weapon a player buys costs far more than the typical high end tool. Whether you like it or not, that is the comparison.

 

It sure as hell is a great comparison. Don't blow it off. Two items, same chant, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

[Lotus1 315]

It sure as hell is a great comparison. Don't blow it off. Two items, same chant, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

 

And don't blow mine off either as it answers that question.

[Dairuka 888]

A smart team wouldn't confuse weapon enchant decay with boats... Just sayin'.

 

They're going to fix bugs. They're also going to make changes, and then call them bugfixes.

 

It's what we ask them to do.

 

I think this whole issue could be resolved early with some proper PR work on their side. They're dropping the ball, and it's hilarious. This whole thread is hilarious.

[Battlepaw 585]

A 90ql CoC pickaxe would cost the same as a 90ql coc weapon of the same coc value.

That's comparable, not yours.

 

er "Would"  you mean that you intend to try and convice us that a weapon with enchants casted in order, by multiple priests, that NEEDs high enchants to function compeditively, or hell even heal well against mobs, will magically be less expensive?   Have you even looked at what a high end weapon goes for?   LT is the norm on the market, not the "Luxery" everyone in here talking about them can clearly be seen to remark you are mistaken.   

 

It sure as hell is a great comparison. Don't blow it off. Two items, same chant, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

 

Two items, except you can't seem to grasp they are used for two different things, and especially with weapons the enchants are built entirely differntly, are more difficult, have to be casted in ORDER, and you have to use multiple priests to do it.  All of this is impossible to compare.   It's like trying to say a sword should be made nonstick by law simply because your frying pan is.    

Edited June 5, 2015 by Battlepaw

[Gumbo 1,563]

And don't blow mine off either as it answers that question.

No it doesn't.

This is valid question without bringing in any other factors.

 

Two items, same CoC chant, same price, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

[Lotus1 315]

No it doesn't.

This is valid question without bringing in any other factors.

 

Two items, same CoC chant, same price, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

 

Look. You can choose to ignore what I said and try and rally up your army of pitchforked "burn the devs" players. That's up to you, but...

 

If you don't want to bring in other factors, then your question would be valid; however, the other factors brought in, that you seem to want to "conveniently ignore", answer your argument. So I'm assuming your "question" then is not a question you're wanting an answer for but more of a question that you don't want answered as it would foil your argument.

[Odynn 2,248]

Two items, same CoC chant, same price, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

 

Same use, skilling up by cutting trees... same decay on enchants... oh wait

[eyerobot 202]

While i hate seeing my enchants go down, I do agree that it's a normal function in wurm.  And if I need a new weapon, then I have no choice but to earn enough money to buy a new one, Or bribe some priest into enchanting it again. Otherwise what would i spend my money on?  And why would i need money for anything, If all enchant decays stop?

 

I say keep the decay.

[Battlepaw 585]

No it doesn't.

This is valid question without bringing in any other factors.

 

Two items, same CoC chant, same price, why does one enchant decay and not the other one?

 

They are not the "same price"   

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/124777-variety-of-tools-for-sale/

 

This is a typical example of prices on freedom market, I just pulled up one of the first ones I saw, but almost every other seller follows this trend.   

 

You notice that the weapons are prohibitvely more expensive.   Hell almost the ONLY time you will see a tool be more expensive than a weapon is if the weapon is under 80 QL, has crappy enchants and isn't rare like the tool is.   This is directy because of the time and extensive more intrinsic value tied up in weapons, as a single vyn priest can pop out tool enchants by themselves.    This means maintaining multiple accounts,  and then having each account a high end priest, and each priest on different RNG curves.    

 

Then you have to factor in the ORDER of each enchant, and just hope everything goes to plan.   [23:52:30] The longsword emits a strong deep sound of resonance, then shatters!

[Dairuka 888]

I charge more for weaponry predominantly because of the difficulty in producing the weapons themselves. It's not an easy skill to get into, and weapons tend to use a lot more iron/steel than tools.

 

I charge the same for the enchantments regardless - of course, with weaponry having four enchantments as opposed to maybe two on a tool, that often means charging twice as much for enchantments alone.

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/113234-the-hidden-islands-enchanted-emporium-tools-shields-weapons-and-woodworking-118-in-stock/

 

Blacksmithing Tool Pricing: (Last Updated, 6/1/2014)

• 1ql - 70.4ql, 10 iron per QL, rounded up. (Example: 70ql, 7c)
• 70.5ql - 80.4ql, 30 iron per QL, rounded up. (Example: 80ql, 7c + 3c = 10c)
• 80.5ql - 85.4ql, 1c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 85ql, 7c+ 3c + 5c = 15c)
• 85.5ql - 90.4ql, 10c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 15c + 50c = 65c)
• 90.5ql - 95.4ql, 20c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 95ql, 65c + 100c = 165c)
• I probably won't ever offer anything higher than 95ql. I'll price it when I make it.
• All items that don't require improving. (Whetstones, Etc) will be offered at half the prices listed here, rounded up. (Example, 90ql Whetstone = 65c/2 = 33c)
• Steel items will come with an additional 10c charge.
• Large Anvil's automatically come with an extra 50c charge to offset Iron Ore use. Yes, I am purposely pricing them this way to minimize demand for them. I hate making these. A lot.
• If the item is damaged, I will reduce the price by 2c per 1 DMG.

Weaponsmithing Weapon/Tool Pricing: (Last Updated, 6/1/2015)

• 1 - 50.4ql, 10 iron per QL, rounded up. (Exmaple: 50ql, 5c)
• 50.5ql - 60.4ql, 1c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 60ql, 5c + 10c = 15c)
• 60.5ql - 70.4ql, 2c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 70ql, 15c + 20c = 35c)
• 70.5ql - 80.4ql, 3c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 80ql, 35c + 30c = 65c)
• 80.5ql - 85.4ql, 5c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 65c + 25c = 90c)
• 85.5ql - 90.4ql, 10c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 90c + 50c = 140c)
• I probably won't ever offer anything higher than 90ql. I'll price it when I make it.

Carpentry Tool Pricing: (Last Updated, 6/1/2014)

• 1ql - 70.4ql, 10 iron per QL, rounded up. (Example: 70ql, 7c)
• 70.5ql - 80.4ql, 30 iron per QL, rounded up. (Example: 80ql, 7c + 3c = 10c)
• 80.5ql - 85.4ql, 1c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 85ql, 7c+ 3c + 5c = 15c)
• 85.5ql - 90.4ql, 10c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 15c + 50c = 65c)
• 90.5ql - 95.4ql, 20c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 95ql, 65c + 100c = 165c)
• I probably won't ever offer anything higher than 95ql. I'll price it when I make it.
• All items that don't require improving, will be offered at half the prices listed here, rounded up.

Fine Carpentry Tool Pricing: (Last Updated, 6/2/2015)

• 1ql - 70.4ql, 10 iron per QL, rounded up. (Example: 70ql, 7c)
• 70.5ql - 80.4ql, 30 iron per QL, rounded up. (Example: 80ql, 7c + 3c = 10c)
• 80.5ql - 85.4ql, 1c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 85ql, 7c+ 3c + 5c = 15c)
• 85.5ql - 90.4ql, 10c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 15c + 50c = 65c)
• 90.5ql - 95.4ql, 20c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 95ql, 65c + 100c = 165c)
• I probably won't ever offer anything higher than 95ql. I'll price it when I make it.
• All items that don't require improving, will be offered at half the prices listed here, rounded up.

Shield Tool Pricing: (Last Updated, 6/1/2015)

• 1 - 50.4ql, 10 iron per QL, rounded up. (Exmaple: 50ql, 5c)
• 50.5ql - 60.4ql, 1c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 60ql, 5c + 10c = 15c)
• 60.5ql - 70.4ql, 2c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 70ql, 15c + 20c = 35c)
• 70.5ql - 80.4ql, 3c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 80ql, 35c + 30c = 65c)
• 80.5ql - 85.4ql, 5c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 65c + 25c = 90c)
• 85.5ql - 90.4ql, 10c per QL, rounded up. (Example: 90ql, 90c + 50c = 140c)
• Steel items will come with an additional 10c charge.
• I probably won't ever offer anything higher than 90ql. I'll price it when I make it.

Non-Mailable Items: (Last Updated, 11/13/2014)

• All weapons, items, or tools that can not be mailed but are listed get 30% off.
• I will never offer delivery. All non-mailable items will be put up on The Hidden Island: Phoenicaea's Merchant.
• First come, first serve. The listing of non-mailable items will serve only as a promotion for the Phoenicaea Merchant.
• Merchant sales will be listed in the Sales Log under "Merchant Sale", and the date the sale was discovered.

Enchantment Pricing: (Last Updated, 11/05/2014)

• 1 - 59, 50 iron per power. (Example: 69 Power, [50i x 60 = 3000i or 30c]) (I probably won't ever put up a 59 or under powered cast up for sale. So don't expect to see this.)
• 60 - 69, 1 copper per power. (Example: 69 Power, 30c + 10c = 40c) (60 - 69 will no longer be listed.)
• 70 - 79, 2 copper per Power. (Example: 79 Power, 40c + 20c = 60c)
  

  70 power, 42c

  71 power, 44c

  72 power, 46c

  73 power, 48c

  74 power, 50c

  75 power, 52c

  76 power, 54c

  77 power, 56c

  78 power, 58c

  79 power, 60c

80 - 89, 4 copper per Power. (Example: 89 Power, 60c + 40c = 100c)

80 power, 64c

81 power, 68c

82 power, 72c

83 power, 76c

84 power, 80c

85 power, 84c

86 power, 88c

87 power, 92c

88 power, 96c

89 power, 100c

90 - 99, 5 copper per Power. (Example: 99 Power, 100c + 50c = 150c or 1.5s)

90 power, 105c

91 power, 110c

92 power, 115c

93 power, 120c

94 power, 125c

95 power, 130c

96 power, 135c

97 power, 140c

98 power, 145c

99 power, 150c

100 - 103, 80 copper per Power. (Example: 103 Power, 150c + 320c = 470c or 4.7s)

100 power, 230c

101 power, 310c

102 power, 390c

103 power, 470c

Edited June 5, 2015 by Dairuka

[Gumbo 1,563]

Same use, skilling up by cutting trees... same decay on enchants... oh wait

 

So if I use a hatchet for only killing, will the chant still go down? Anyone happen to know?  Same use tho right?

[Klaa 4,872]

Sweet, the log threads were getting dull...

[Odynn 2,248]

So if I use a hatchet for only killing, will the chant still go down? Anyone happen to know?  Same use tho right?

 

enchants will stay, since they are not timer based actions.

 

you can add on your list : meditation rugs - armors - horse gear for the same reason.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Odynn

[Lotus1 315]

So if I use a hatchet for only killing, will the chant still go down? Anyone happen to know?  Same use tho right?

 

Hatchets won't lose their enchant if used for killing.

[GoldFever 299]

I've been greatly amused by this thread.  Enchants have gone a bit wild in my view anyway, wouldn't mind seeing some of them removed, maybe limited to one enchant per item?

 

My only comment is that in my view proper game design needs a way to get rid of the high end stuff from time to time.  Many do this by introducing a new "level" with new stuff.  Time for everyone to start collecting all over again.  Wurm doesn't have this so in my view the high end stuff needs to decay or even pop from time to time.  Decent stuff (but not the best) has to have good gameplay value.

 

Of course we all want the best possible gear and no one wants to lose it.  However, I think for the health of the game and the overall game play experience for all players, it would be better if weapons decayed. 

 

This will make it harder to have the "perfect" weapon, so be it, overall the game will be better for it I believe. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by GoldFever

[Gumbo 1,563]

Sweet, the log threads were getting dull...

 

Dang, out of likes for the day. Will get ya next time.  

[Dairuka 888]

Dang, out of likes for the day. Will get ya next time.  

 

Got yo' back fam. I liked him for you.

[Klaa 4,872]

Got yo' back fam. I liked him for you.

I hate running out of likes too.

[Zedrow 5]

I would be fine if enchants decay same as tools as long as WS skill grind is same as BS.

 

If you want to compare the enchants on each you have to include the skill and grind to make them as well.

 

On another note, this might actually create more priest alts. If I have to pay a few silver each month to get a high enchant back I might as well make a priest with that money instead and do my own enchants. Extra alts could increase, over time, the number of people selling enchants and flood the market.

[geode 292]

I've been greatly amused by this thread.  Enchants have gone a bit wild in my view anyway, wouldn't mind seeing some of them removed, maybe limited to one enchant per item?

 

My only comment is that in my view proper game design needs a way to get rid of the high end stuff from time to time.  Many do this by introducing a new "level" with new stuff.  Time for everyone to start collecting all over again.  Wurm doesn't have this so in my view the high end stuff needs to decay or even pop from time to time.  Decent stuff (but not the best) has to have good gameplay value.

 

Of course we all want the best possible gear and no one wants to lose it.  However, I think for the health of the game and the overall game play experience for all players, it would be better if weapons decayed. 

 

This will make it harder to have the "perfect" weapon, so be it, overall the game will be better for it I believe. 

 

I like what you say.

 

 

Players make Stuff. In order for Players to be able to keep on making Stuff ... Stuff has to go out of the system some how, either shatters or decays or goblin stealing them or whatever, the Stuff has to go or there's no room in the economy for more Stuff to be made. No world is infinite, especially not Wurm.

 

Not only the item itself, but also the enchantments need to decay, even an item's "Rarity" needs to decay in my opinion, for a sandbox mmo economy to be healthy. All enchantments need to decay slightly in my opinion. I think Rolf was on the right track when he first "fixed the bug", he just needed to lessen the amount of decay to a more reasonable level.

 

I agree with Gumbo.

 

I agree with Busted.

 

I agree with GoldFever.

 

I would rather spend more coin in a healthy economy than spend less coin in an economy going over a cliff... which from what I see as a buyer is exactly what is happening in slow motion in Wurm right now.

 

 

Oh and I am NOT a Priest, or a WS, or anything. I am just a Buyer. I just want to see Wurm's economy get healthy again (it's not imo).

Edited June 5, 2015 by geode

[Battlepaw 585]

I would be fine if enchants decay same as tools as long as WS skill grind is same as BS.

 

If you want to compare the enchants on each you have to include the skill and grind to make them as well.

 

On another note, this might actually create more priest alts. If I have to pay a few silver each month to get a high enchant back I might as well make a priest with that money instead and do my own enchants. Extra alts could increase, over time, the number of people selling enchants and flood the market.

 

Yea...  right.   Your talking about grinding up the priest too, and the soul depth, AND the channeling.    The ammount of money you would spend on the gems alone, or the sheer ammount of time you would have to invest in the other aspects of each priest, not to mention the sac materials, etc.    

 

And then you have to consider the order, meaning you have to dispel enchants to fix a weapon, or recast the ENTIRE thing, meaning about 12k + favor, sac materials, time, etc on the weapon itself.     You have no idea what you are asking here   

 

Hell even on Chaos, where we rarely pay each other in anything but favors and goodwill, weapons take a hell of a long time to get casted up, and we have a religous advisor that makes thing easier!    An entire community devoted to supporting weapon enchants is still not enough to keep up with the decay just from skilling.    And... boy do you do a LOT of skilling to be compeditive on a PvP server.