Sandbox Expectations

[Shiraek 464]

As usual Eyesgood I respect your opinions and how well you've expressed them but find myself in broad disagreement.

1. I agree wurm is relatively expensive. I don't see that as the main reason it hasn't "exploded"
2. Pay to win doesn't make sense. You present it as though it were a binary state - pay to win or not. I see it as more of a continuum and Wurm is somewhere in the middle of that continuum. Many more popular sandbox games are at least as "PTW" as Wurm as others have pointed out
3. Documentation is at most slightly worse than average. The wurm wiki is pretty good. Certainly isn't what's holding hordes of newbies back as the newbie-relevant stuff is all well documented on the wiki
4. Advertising, I don't know. It's very hit and miss. I think many people have tried wurm and not stuck around, which brings me to the real reason Wurm hasn't "exploded":

 

It just is not, and can not ever be with its current design, a main stream game.

 

 

By that I mean really the following:

1. The graphics aren't main stream. Wurm is a long way behind in visual appeal.
2. The gameplay isn't main stream. "Insanely grindy" is the opinion of my friends who refuse to play it, including the ones who tried it.
3. The newbie experience isn't main stream. I must admit I haven't been through the tutorial recently but I suspect if I do I'll see improvement since last time but not enough to grab a "normal" person, and odds are a "normal person" will end up on a PVP server at the end of the tutorials, meaning they won't be playing for very long.
4. Combat isn't main stream. Combat system is basically pre 2003 everquest level. I don't enjoy it, and combat is my main focus in every other MMO I play. It's also fairly pointless on PVE servers as mobs don't drop much of use or value.
5. It's focused on PVP. You can argue that many other more main stream sandboxes do the same, but PVP in combination with "insanely grindy" and "bad combat" is a game design document I could honestly not sell to any studio, developer, investor or even gamer I know
6. It doesn't play to its strengths. Wurm has the strongest terraforming and crafting system of any game I've played. To have these in an MMO is absolute gold. And yet, the actual "game" is PVP. On PVE servers there is no reason to build a village other than you want one. You build one, and then... nothing happens. There isn't even much reason to communicate with other players on PVE servers, other than sheer loneliness. There is very little trade, basically speciality items and bulk anti-grind goods only. There is nearly zero NPC economy which means player to player trades have to carry the can and there isn't enough player to player economy to do that.

 

And while I should really write what I think are the answers to these, well, I started. And I realised I've said it all before. In some cases years ago. And so have others. Ultimately Wurm doesn't want to be any more main stream than it is. The playerbase (who are left) don't want change and oppose pretty well every change that comes along, and the developers don't want change either. They're presumably happy with the tiny niche market, and that's fine.

So I won't talk about how insane it is to be trying to deliver a visual experience with Java in the age of Unity and Unreal being so accessible and cheap. Or how players won't perceive things as being as "grindy", even if they take a long time to do, so long as they are interacting and making decisions rather than just repeating actions or groups of actions. Or how newbies need a series of quests that take them through the early PVE game experience, up to building your first house and your first boat. Or any of the good suggestions often repeated to make combat more interactive and tactical, or why a PVP focus with this game's strengths and weaknesses is wasting most of its potential.

But I gotta say something or I'll feel like I just wasted all this time whining

 

So here's some things you could do with Wurm's current systems which are more content focused and don't require engine changes etc:

 

1. Graphics: Force texture compression to ON and use higher res textures. Use normal maps on ground tiles, walls, ships, and tree trunks. Bring back different wood textures using a shader I will help you make if you want. See other thread on it. These things will all work with your crazy old Java engine. Probably
2. Add some special drops to harder mobs. Troll hide should make slightly improved leather armour and better padding for plate armour. Lava fiends and hell scorpiuses could drop glowstones that make a lantern or street lamp glow for three times as long as tar. Spiders should drop silk to make fine cloth. Goblins could drop gemstones. Hell hounds could drop fire powder which acts like double strength tar. etc etc, suddenly hunting and PVE combat has meaning.
3. Add rare creatures (Wounded Troll, Dire Wolf, Corrupted Scorpion) etc that need to be tracked, hunted down, but drop special stuff. Hunting could be a valid CAREER in this game, not just a hobby for bored mayors. Have these creatures avoid populated areas, giving players a reason to adventure in the wilderness and hunt.
4. Add Goblin and Troll villages to the deep, wild, interior of PVE servers. Have lots of trolls and goblins spawn there, special ones that never leave the deed or perimeter, which is an extended perim. Have some (new, so PVPers don't whine) rare ore types which you place only on these villages in and these perims, so players can collect them and use them for new (again slightly improved) weapons, tools etc. Have a new type of tree or two which spawn there and convey advantages to wooden items made from the wood. Suddenly you'll have PVE players banding together to raid these lands, suppress the enemies and take the good stuff. Exactly the sort of play you always envisioned, just... coop PVE instead of one group of players infuriating another.
5. Expand this feature out over time. Aside from the core goblin and troll villages which can never be taken, satellite villages will spawn where the players leave room and will need to be destroyed via warlike actions or small raiding parties will harrass nearby deeds. You will need to beef up spirit guards and tower guards on PVE servers back to their original level - many PVE players aren't into combat and inflicting it on them wont improve the game.
6. Have Traders at the central villages (plus maybe put a few on the coast) buy a certain amount of the essentials each day (food, clothing, various iron supplies and tools) for each premium account. Have the demand accumulate up to one week so players can make a weekly trading journey. Yes this will mean money moves into the economy, which players will spend on Trader stuff. Add more trader stuff if need be. This will give players a reason to produce goods. Wurms present currency system is strangling the economy to death due to a lack of currency.

I better stop there before I give away ALLL my ideas, but you get the picture. I think Wurm could play to its strengths (crafting, terraforming) more effectively by developing its economy and developing the reasons we hunt and tame the wild.

 

Cheers,

Shiraek

[Kabill 265]

 OOPS

Edited May 30, 2015 by Kabill

[Kabill 265]

I'm not saying I don't like wurm.  I really do. I just wish it didn't take 5 years of 16hr days of grinding to get a main character to the place it needs to be.  So yes, to accomplish things in wurm, I pick up additional helpers to get things done. After topping 20 prem alts, I had to say "enough is enough" and go on a wurm diet.

 

I think there are probably only a few hundred people that play wurm and the rest are alts.  Almost everyone I know has multiple deeds and multiple prem accounts.  It is just too much.  I've easily dropped thousands on this game over the last few years. At my worst, my upkeep and prem time was running $300 a month.  My stretch goal is to bring it down to under $50.  How sad is that?  $50 a month is a goal?

 

I hope the wurm staff read this thread and seriously consider change.  It is never a good idea to have only a handful of clients and then bleed them dry.  Much better to bring in the masses and increase revenue through new players.

 

 

 

 

that is definitely a personal problem, not one with the game dude

[Chakron 1,025]

I'm not saying I don't like wurm.  I really do. I just wish it didn't take 5 years of 16hr days of grinding to get a main character to the place it needs to be.  So yes, to accomplish things in wurm, I pick up additional helpers to get things done. After topping 20 prem alts, I had to say "enough is enough" and go on a wurm diet.

 

I think there are probably only a few hundred people that play wurm and the rest are alts.  Almost everyone I know has multiple deeds and multiple prem accounts.  It is just too much.  I've easily dropped thousands on this game over the last few years. At my worst, my upkeep and prem time was running $300 a month.  My stretch goal is to bring it down to under $50.  How sad is that?  $50 a month is a goal?

 

This is in no way a typical experience. Not to pile on but you may have a problem.

[Elktazahjr 131]

I actually don't understand why so many people complain about wurm online graphics. On the highest settings with super sampling or an equivalent it looks quite darn good actually and you don't need more than a midrange build for that. If only they'd fix the z-fighting it'd be perfect..

[Cista 428]

The text by Shiraek above is the gospel. It's not that Wurm cannot be improved , but the OP and others that have launched similar threads, are looking at wrong aspects to improve.

 

If Wurm continues to work on graphics, animations, combat responsiveness, then the "right" players will come to the game. Unfortunately there is maybe not so much than can be done with the engine.

[Ayes 3,715]

Another thread about drawing and retaining new players to the game it seems, or perhaps more the game as how we would like to see it developed and transformed.

 

It brings me back to my newbie days when timers were long and to accomplish anything in terms of creation within the game took a very long time because of this. I guess this is the major deterrent in accomplishing the above.

 

Yet back when I started the environment is what firmly held me within its sway. Golden Valley seemed to me a vast continent to explore with strange little player homesteads along the confusing pathways. I never was much of a traveler so when I found a spot by Glitterdale where I could start to create and build something the game to me expanded from that point.

 

Now all these years later having survived the more tedious timers, I can create places within what seems to me a reasonable timeframe and there the enjoyment lies. Newbies and their lengthy timers are long gone from personal experience until I might once again create a new character and have the need to grind him up to 21 body strength to bash on deed walls that need to be cleared away.

 

Then once again the timer conundrum of the new player materializes before my eyes, with twitching fingers from the effect; but, I can see the potential beyond this where perhaps a new player might not. Then something else within them needs to draw them within its grasp and hold them firm until this time passes and the way beyond is clear to pursue what the timers deny them.

 

Can this motivation for perseverance be created within the new player or is it a spark that needs be there to in order to be ignited over time. This is the key that opens the door, as I see it.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

Edited May 30, 2015 by Ayes

[Ulviirala 431]

"all other sandboxes" but  you forgot to say which other sandboxes you mean.

[...]

World of Warcraft, as other themepark AAA games, have excellent documentation.

[...]

Uuhhh wait wait wait, you lost me there. Where the heck does World of Warcraft have excellent documentation? I must have missed out on that all these years. I mean, even their major new features are often scarcely explained if at all. All World of Warcraft has is a massive community who drives wikis and maintain other helpful websites (thottbot, wowhead, wowwiki e.g.)!

And yes, I too wonder what all these "other sandbox MMO" are that have any and all features, recipes, formulae, game mechanics and numbers documented. Even EVE-Online had their official "Evelopedia" only created a few years back, and I'd bet it's neither complete nor in-depth in all aspects.

I don't know a single MMO that has a complete, official from the devs/company, encyclopedia of their game with in-depth information, and not one that is community driven.

[Gaeron 551]

Lets see

 

1. Cost - I don't consider this game costly at all, in fact quite the opposite. I actually buy prem on three toons in order to support the game. The third toon is logged in barely half a dozen times a year but its there to help show my support. The comments I see about other games which allow half a dozen toons or more under one account leave out one very important point, you can only play one at a time.  I checked on other games I've subbed to and over time Wurm is one of the cheapest.

 

2. Not pay to win by any stretch of the imagination, most definitely play to win. I cannot buy gear or skill levels or pay to skip having to put in the actual time to develop my toon. Multiple deeds or big deeds, thats all cosmetic, Everything you need you get in game without fuss.

 

3. Documentation. *cough*  you may have heard me bang on/rant about this over the years. I'd mind a lot less if bug fixes were always top priority so we could have a reasonable expectation that the content we are discovering is what the developers meant for us to find.

 

4. Advertising. In two minds on this because I'm not sure how the current servers/config would handle a big influx of players or whether it would fold under the pressure. I would say that the state of the advertising is not ours to judge but the companies and the companies only. If they are getting the influx and retention of the number of players they want then whatever they are doing is successful, if not then its failing.

 

I would say that the thread title is for me the focus of the post. Sandbox expectations. Mine are different from yours or that of anyone else. Having tried many, many sandbox experiments over the years I have to say that none have matched either the depth or flavour of Wurm. I've kept away from Eve as I can't afford another time sink of this magnitude . My own expectations from/for Wurm is that it continues to develop in its own unique way and hold to its principles.

 

Considering many people's expectations from a MMO game are 3-6 months of intense, fast play and then having "experienced" it, drop the husk and move on to the next Wurm has exceeded my expectations by not only surviving, but by growing richer and broader.

[Elktazahjr 131]

Ofcourse if you look at this game being pay to win through a PVE perspective you won't see a lot, but you can flat out buy items that make you stronger on pvp servers.

[Sunnyside 78]

Returning player here :

 

 

1. Cost    I paid for my first sub by grinding on bricks     sold 11k bricks  at my shack by the water 2 years or so ago  for 10.5 silver.

   It took me 2 full week-ends to do that.

My cost time.

Out of pocket cost    0.

I work in real life so the meger  10-20 bucks a month to play wurm is very cheap    for the amount of time I spend on it.

 

2. Pay to Win.    Pay to Win  @ wurm and your doing it wrong  and miss out on a lot of fun. 

                 Sure you can buy silver  for better gear

                 Sure you can pay for that awesome toon being sold for 400+ bucks

 

                  " I bet these dev's  are making millions off all of our money '      <---- joke

                    

 

          What you can't pay for though     The many hours of playing and watching your skills slowly tick upwards.

                                                               The joy of having friends on a deed in an alliance working on a public project

 

 

3. Documentation      There are only a few things that I know of that have either not been hinted or down right posted wiki.

 

          This does lead to players sharing / testing   / talking with each other about these things and what they have found.

 

      'NON  cookie cutter  MMO   how dare they'

 

4.    Advertising.       Maybe just maybe cc has it just right where they want it   player numbers vs. what the servers can handle.  Just maybe there not as dumb as we think they are.  

 

  Wurm just in the past few year has had some very amazing changes. 

 

 

I came back to see these new bridges and think I might stick around a bit longer this time.

 

 

 

   Thanks CC and to the Dev   for the many hours of enjoyment I have gotten out of this game and please take my 20-30 bucks a month and go watch a movie.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Sunnyside

[Eobersig 1,006]

...

 

In my opinion, Wurm fails in these expectations because:

 

1.  Cost.  Wurm is expensive.  Ok, it is not expensive to have a single premium character and live in a village where you are not obligated to help with upkeep.  In that context wurm is cheap!  However, that context is not what many sandbox MMO players expect or want.  In order to be able to enjoy most of the Wurm sandbox, honestly, you have to have at least 2 premium characters so that you can have at least a crafting main and a priest main.  Other games provide you with multiple characters per account for once price.  Even with 2 mains, the player STILL misses out on the experience of playing other priest types, running a village, etc.

 

...

discuss.

 

Hehe, Eyesgood. As soon as I saw this thread from you I knew it would be mainly about money. I knew that before I read your post. Awfully sorry, it's just because you complain about Wurm being expensive all the time.

 

Now get this: Wurm is dead cheap for the large majority of it's players. The large majority of it's players don't need and don't want huge deeds on all servers and enough premium characters to run sermons all alone. Wurm only gets expensive because you want all this. It's not Wurm that is expensive, it's what you want that makes it expensive.

 

Sorry again, but you remind me of that man that wants a certain car in 17 different colours and then complains about how expensive it is to have a car!

[Belrindor 663]

As usual Eyesgood I respect your opinions and how well you've expressed them but find myself in broad disagreement.

~EVERYTHING~

 

I better stop there before I give away ALLL my ideas, but you get the picture. I think Wurm could play to its strengths (crafting, terraforming) more effectively by developing its economy and developing the reasons we hunt and tame the wild.

 

Cheers,

Shiraek

I vote Shiraek for CC CEO. Sorry Rolf, this guy just has much better ideas, mate, and knows how to implement him. I'd have him on my short call list if I were you. (I'd also pray that he never makes a Wurmy MMO cuz you'd be outta business!)

[Belrindor 663]

Dear lord, I just had a revelation.

 

After playing Wurm these past 1.5 years, and seeing various people's reactions, I know truly know why they call it 'Stockholm Syndrome'.

[Tipper 260]

1. Cost? Not so bad. If I was a golfer, I'd be spending 10x more.

 

2. Pay to win? Eh. There's no real "winning" in Wurm anyway, plus you lose out on the satisfaction of accomplishing something yourself.

 

3. Documentation? I haven't read a game's official documentation since WING COMMANDER 2.

 

4. Advertising? I'd really like to see a campaign that embraces Wurm's oddness and extreme approach to crafting, building, and character advancement.

[Szai 82]

1. I think the cost is justified, its less than Everquest/WoW/insert another 14.99 game here, and i put so much time into this, it would be worth more easily.

 

2. I dont think its P2W because you cant exactly buy dragon armor or anyting from the company, you can buy currency from them or players, or buy accounts, in that case maybe, but still its not creating a paid advantage, its just transfering ownership of something someone has earned. P2W games are when you can buy actual gear or spells or something, or faster mounts, this game is not that. If you spend money you will def get a big head start as i have, first 2 weeks i had a whole set of 80botd tools, it was nice.

 

3. Wikipedia is good but im sad that there isnt much 3rd part fan sites but the population probably wouldnt support much of that.

 

4. I personally am the opposite of most of you, when someone i care about asks about the game I tell them they should not try it, because ive played literally 16hrs a day since i started and its becoming very unhealthy. I dont think you could accomplish much meaningful stuff in a more reasonable amount of time in this game but at the same time i am having "fun" so maybe its worth.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

2. I dont think its P2W because you cant exactly buy dragon armor or anyting from the company, you can buy currency from them or players, or buy accounts, in that case maybe, but still its not creating a paid advantage, its just transfering ownership of something someone has earned. P2W games are when you can buy actual gear or spells or something, or faster mounts, this game is not that. If you spend money you will def get a big head start as i have, first 2 weeks i had a whole set of 80botd tools, it was nice.

 

I will give you a very good example of pay-to-win around here: deed a source spring/fountain.

There are many more.

This game may not have a shop full of microtransactions, but it's pay-to-win. Don't forget the small fact that the more money I pay Rolf, the more game land I lock you and everyone else out of...

Edited June 1, 2015 by As_I_Decay

[Ayes 3,715]

Wurm can obviously be pay to win in terms of purchasing a character or two, then creating high quality items, enchanting them and then selling for high prices. Then you are pay to win in the capacity to earn money from playing the game in this manner.

 

The player character is everything in Wurm in terms of skills, opening the doors to all aspects of the game. Those who purchase characters shortcut this process, which is why some find it desirable to do so. There may be no "winning" per se involved but this certainly opens up all opportunities of game play with this character purchase *payment*.

 

Whatever online games I have played the enjoyment to me has primarily been advancing my characters, so to purchase one or more would only result in denying myself the satisfaction of this accomplishment. The longer I have played this game the more then that I value my characters, the skill levels they have reached and the things that they can accomplish. This is the innate value of this slow skill raising system, so I guess you need to have been in game a fair while to appreciate it.

 

=Ayes=

[DarylDarkfire 83]

Eve Online, Life is Feudal, Xsyon, Perpetuum (hybrid), Fallen Earth (hybrid) to name a few.  Full potential in a sandbox MMO means full access.

I was a developer at Xsyon, And I will say Xsyon has nothing compared to Wurm (Sorry Jordi but its true) Xsyon was just as expensive if not more then wurm. With Xsyon you first had to buy the game (30 to 40 USD) then had to pay a prem Subscription for your account (15 USD a month) here, for 16... 17 USD  you get 2 months. Also on top of that, Xsyon don't have such a good following, and has been declining. Do I think Xsyon is a good game, Yes always.. I was their Dev/Web/Database guy for a long time, so of course I wont say its Not a good game. But do i feel its better then Wurm Online. Sorry no, I do not.

Not to mention, there still hasn't been very good documentation for Xsyon, Only what players have made.

Eve, Life is Feudal, Perpetuum, Fallen Earth.. I cannot comment on, As I am quite happy here at Wurm Online.

Edited June 1, 2015 by DarylDarkfire

[Eyesgood 2,121]

Hehe, Eyesgood. As soon as I saw this thread from you I knew it would be mainly about money. I knew that before I read your post. Awfully sorry, it's just because you complain about Wurm being expensive all the time.

 

Now get this: Wurm is dead cheap for the large majority of it's players. The large majority of it's players don't need and don't want huge deeds on all servers and enough premium characters to run sermons all alone. Wurm only gets expensive because you want all this. It's not Wurm that is expensive, it's what you want that makes it expensive.

 

Sorry again, but you remind me of that man that wants a certain car in 17 different colours and then complains about how expensive it is to have a car!

 

Yes, many of my gripe posts are about the costs of Wurm.  When I think of how much I pay for Wurm each month it just gnaws at me.  I guess I am still sore about that 60% hike.  I tell you what, from now on I will stop beating the dead horse about wurm costs; no more rantings from Eyesgood about the cost of Wurm.  It obviously isn't getting anywhere anyway.

[Azzerhoden 12]

<<snipped for brevity>>

 

 

+1,000 .  Tremendous ideas!

[Audrel 2,223]

Yes, many of my gripe posts are about the costs of Wurm.  When I think of how much I pay for Wurm each month it just gnaws at me.  I guess I am still sore about that 60% hike.  I tell you what, from now on I will stop beating the dead horse about wurm costs; no more rantings from Eyesgood about the cost of Wurm.  It obviously isn't getting anywhere anyway.

 

The premium is cheaper than other games (currently, until the Euro rises again, as it was more expensive in the ghost of economy past). It used to be the silver here and there 3 or 4 times a month to imp stuff over and over that rankled me as it kept needing done over and over (now I just forage for imps and have slowly built skills to do a lot of it at home). Upkeep is rather hefty. Our little mess of deeds runs about the same as some games rent private servers and deed the whole planet.

 

That all being said, however, it starts to add up when you have an alt (or 30). Even if I have to log out to play an alt in other games, I don't have to pay for them. My alt is a priest which would be very painful to play as a main. It turns into "Ask Your Friends to Wipe Your Nose Even Online" it feels like. PvE anyway. We don't tend to have "cities" over here.

[KunAlt 844]

Yes, many of my gripe posts are about the costs of Wurm.  When I think of how much I pay for Wurm each month it just gnaws at me.  I guess I am still sore about that 60% hike.  I tell you what, from now on I will stop beating the dead horse about wurm costs; no more rantings from Eyesgood about the cost of Wurm.  It obviously isn't getting anywhere anyway.

 

I think all is in the eyes of the beholder, in my case I enjoyed the game for 2 years with only one premium char, and it was a hell of a ride so far. I live in my own deed and until now I was able to make enough silver to pay the 4+s it cost.

 

So for my the game cost is not an issue.

 

 

If you look at it carefully, every mmo game out there is pay to win in one way or another, above all wen you approach the competitive side of the game (pvp), but to be honest besides you subscription (that can be payed with in game money too) there is not really "must have" items that you need to buy to enjoy the game.

 

 

Documentation for sure could always be improved, but to be honest there is big bucks games out there with worst documentation than Wurm.

 

 

About advertising, Ii'm out of my comfort zone here, I think that's Rolf's business call, and he should know better than us what or what not to do, I;m more than ok with players giving a suggestion or idea here and there for the game mechanics, features, etc. But we don't have enough information or even the right to suggest how CodeClub needs to drive their business.

 

 

If you ask me one area holding the game back in popularity I think is the combat system. I know a lot of people specially pvp folks will be on disagree with me, because they are used and comfortable with the way the combat works today, but to me is a dull system.

 

PvE wise you fight a mighty "noob eater" Champion troll the exact same way you fight a humble rooster, there is not strategy involved, you just stand in front of the foe and watch either the bar life or the combat text, doing nothing until one of you drop dead. Sure once you get some skill in your fight style or your weapon of choice you can use one or 2 special moves, or switch instances or bash, etc but to be honest all that is meaningless, truth is, if you FS/gear is enough to win you win, if your FS/Gear is not on par with the fight then you loose regardless of how many of special moves or instance switching you pull. So in the end you have no real influence in the tides of the fight, the final result was already decided way before you faced each other. And to add some more dirt to combat system grave the animations are plain boring, most of the time you client endless loop 2 moves, there is not bashing visual clue,no raising shield, no block left or high or whatever.

 

 

My 2 coppers.

[Torgrim 403]

Eyesgood, some points are valid in your post, but I think you kind of forget to mention the actual game play!

 

If this game had a good fighting implementation, less bugs, better graphics I think more people would stay past the first few hours. 

 

Cost, yeah, it's expensive to more experienced players but you can start out with just one char on premium, that's not really expensive. What makes it expensive is that you need one account per character + deeds and upkeep...  

[Eyesgood 2,121]

I was a developer at Xsyon, And I will say Xsyon has nothing compared to Wurm (Sorry Jordi but its true) Xsyon was just as expensive if not more then wurm. With Xsyon you first had to buy the game (30 to 40 USD) then had to pay a prem Subscription for your account (15 USD a month) here, for 16... 17 USD  you get 2 months. Also on top of that, Xsyon don't have such a good following, and has been declining. Do I think Xsyon is a good game, Yes always.. I was their Dev/Web/Database guy for a long time, so of course I wont say its Not a good game. But do i feel its better then Wurm Online. Sorry no, I do not.

Not to mention, there still hasn't been very good documentation for Xsyon, Only what players have made.

Eve, Life is Feudal, Perpetuum, Fallen Earth.. I cannot comment on, As I am quite happy here at Wurm Online.

 

Xsyon...   I bought the game and played it for about 2-3 months.  The ONLY end game that I can see is a home full of baskets.  I mean that game is literally a hoarder's dream.  Never have I seen more useless junk to collect than in that game.  Of course, it could just be that Jordi just went overboard with resource gathering and didn't spend much initial time doing anything else.  But I agree that Xsyon is nowhere near Wurm Online.  The poster asked me to list other sandbox MMO's and so I mentioned a few.  But by no means did I infer any of them were better than Wurm.