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Tamorlane

Change is Coming

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As many of you know, or can speculate from the long and often colorful stories that are frequently told about the “Wurm of Oldeâ€, this game has been in development for quite a few years (!). Through Alpha’s and Beta’s and Gold’s One through X, the face and shape and foundation of Wurm Online has been constantly evolving.


 


There has been much discussion lately on the forums, in IRC, and in game about the rules of Wurm Online, the duties and obligations of the Developers and the Game Staff, and the fact that actions and rulings can appear inconsistent and unfair based on game and player history. Many cases that seem to be similar from an observing players perspective can have any number of differences that make them unique from other cases. Usually the Game Staff is not able to communicate details about a players case with those not directly involved. This can often create the misconception that there is inconsistent support and even bias.


 


It is important for us to state that many of the service levels that we as Game Staff have instituted were based on the way the game itself worked (or didn’t). Over the years there have been game mechanics that either were broken outright, or did not work as they should, or that resulted in situations for players that we felt were unfair or unnecessary or otherwise wrong. The Game Staff over the years made decisions to intervene in various ways in order to serve as a buffer between the players and these game features and bugs.


 


And over the course of Wurm Online’s continuing evolution, the game Developers have worked to address many of those issues, and continue to work towards resolving many more while attempting to provide new and interesting content and features. As these issues are corrected, or deemed by the Developers to be working as intended, it becomes necessary for the Game Staff to modify and update our service level commitments and then communicate those changes to the players. While we do one part of that well, we have not always done the other part well at all.


 


For example, years ago a player had no granular control over deed permissions, and unintended incidents occurred quite frequently. At that time the Game Staff decided it was in the best interest of the game to try and manage those incidents for players. We might go track down a player that “accidentally†managed to pick up a few things on your deed that he or she shouldn’t have. We might recover a corpse or two half way across the map when there was some question of how drinking water while examining an item could result in instadeath. We might spend hours of our time trying to help a player find an item or an animal or a cart because something in the game or in that particular situation didn’t add up.


 


But now the Developers have increased the control over places and things dramatically, and continue to work on ways to place more and more control of personal and property security in your hands as players. And because of these changes, it becomes necessary for the Game Staff to change the way we do things as well.


 


We do not ever see Wurm Online becoming like CCP or other large MMO companies, where our Terms of Service and our EULA state in simplest terms that “people do bad things, we don’t care, figure out how to take care of things yourself or ragequit†or the best one “don’t be stupid and you’ll be fineâ€. But we also are not in a position to intervene in cases where there is a clear player obligation to act in their own defense. Incorrect permissions, misunderstandings of valid and intended game mechanics, and even choosing to trade with other players that might not be the noblest of Wurmian’s are not going to be the Game Staff’s responsibility to mitigate when something goes wrong.


 


We will still yank your boat out of the side of a mountain because yeah, that probably shouldn’t happen. We will still work to find your horse or cart that decided to visit the inside of a cave wall. We will still try our hardest to give fair and reasonable directives regarding expected conduct, griefing issues, and any number of the many issues that players submit to us each day. And yes, there are still bugs, and we will continue to collect data and relay it to the Developers and work for an equitable resolution.


 


But we will be changing some things, and it is important that you as players and customers understand that because we may have done something last week or last year or five years ago in an effort to support your gameplay, it does not mean that we will continue to do those things going forward. If this game is to grow and thrive, the game mechanics, the platform, the rules, and the Game Staff obligations must be scalable. We want to create a unique balance between your responsibilities as players and ours as Game Masters that reflects the incredibly unique nature of Wurm Online itself, and that can adequately and effectively service the broadest cross section of our extremely varied player demographic. And we want to make sure that we have clearly communicated those changes to you who will be most affected by them.


 


Over the next several weeks there will be many postings that will define and clarify the Game Staff’s policies and positions on things such as item replacement and reimbursement issues, general rules of play, trade scamming, disruptive player designations, third party tools and modifications, and other current and constant concerns. We will try to eliminate the need for the many forum threads that speculate on what we will or can do for you, as well as those things we simply can’t or won’t, but sometimes those can be…exciting…and help us to see where we are not communicating effectively. Some of these postings will be open to civil discussion in the hopes that we can either improve the policy or communicate it better, but some will not since they will concern issues that are not open for debate (we will however explain why they are not).


 


As with all things, we seek to find a balance between a players ‘right’ to free and fair play, and the protection of the ‘right’ of other players to the same. We will continue to work towards that goal.  We of course will never be able to please everyone at the same exact time, but we will try to always do more good than harm.


 


And yes, you are in fact the reason that we care.


 


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Somehow i feel this is going to fall on the side of the scammer more then the honest players but i guess we will see. 


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Nice post Tamorlane,


 


is it possible that we have a select group from pvp servers "1 from each kingdom" that can talk direct with possible devolpers/Gm's in regards to pvp bugs/ gameplay  some stuff that would not be deemed a bug/issue on the freedom servers.


 


this would allow a nice flow of information that can be communicated and would stop a lot of frustration from that player base?


Edited by hemrzz
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Give mayors better permissions for managing their deeds. Right now I won't recruit new players cause I have to friend them. I do this cause I can't trust them with a writ. But they want housing, let alone giving them permissions to do things on my deed could allow them to bash into my house and take my stuff. Once the game mechanics are better GMS will have less to do. Trading boats or wagons shouldn't be a cap shoot. So I hope you put in policies that show where the holes are in the game mechanics so Devs can fix them.

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I will say this as neutrally as possible......


 


Hopefully the difference between "sandbox" and "litterbox" will be kept in mind.


 


As for early feedback, I vote for "sandbox".  Plenty of "litterboxes" out there many Freedomers didn't bother trying due to their 100% PvP nature if nothing else.  For the record, not calling Wurm's PvP "litterbox" mode, there seems to be some level of regulation amongst players to say the least, kudoes where they're due.


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Nice post Tamorlane,

is it possible that we have a select group from pvp servers "1 from each kingdom" that can talk direct with possible devolpers/Gm's in regards to pvp bugs some stuff that would not be deemed a bug on the freedom server.

this would allow a nice flow of information that can be communicated and would stop a lot of frustration from that player base?

Actually one thing ccp does well is they have elections for a player committee that gives the Devs feed back on where they want the development to go. This came to be after they spent years making walking in stations when no one wanted it. Maybe it time this community did the same.

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Nice post Tamorlane,

 

is it possible that we have a select group from pvp servers "1 from each kingdom" that can talk direct with possible devolpers/Gm's in regards to pvp bugs some stuff that would not be deemed a bug on the freedom server.

 

this would allow a nice flow of information that can be communicated and would stop a lot of frustration from that player base?

 

This is certainly something that we are working towards.  We have to of course realize that we have one of the most unique player demographics in existence (for those who don't realize it, our player base runs from just north of (10) years old all the way to the far side of (70) years old).  Yes that started with a 7.  Its a marketers nightmare really, how can we speak to all of those people at the same time?

 

We have tried a variety of user 'councils' in the past, and some of them were very informative.  Ultimately we devolve into an argument about whom is speaking for whom.  I have been here a long time, and many of the voices on this forum and in game are amazing, with great ideas and great intentions.  Even the most polarizing of players have been behind some of the best changes to the game.  That is what makes us special and unique and delightfully weird.

 

So yes. I believe we all want a larger and more recognized player voice.  Along what lines we will have to see.  Five years ago we might say PvP and PvE, but now we have a gameworld where many of the oldest PvP'rs are also some of the most respected PvE'rs, and a server scenario that allows even the most timid of PvE players to run off and be PvP monsters when it suits them.  Again what makes us unique.  But also something that unfairly divides our community. 

 

To Ascorbic - yes and yes and yes.  Ongoing and upcoming changes to permissions are all about giving you and everyone else peace of mind.  Many things are in the pipeline even now that will make you and everyone else much happier.  Writs for boats and wagons and whatever?  Count us in!

 

Be patient is all we ask.  We want to make the largest number of you happy as often as possible.  It's a bit like trying to surf on a raindrop, but when it works out its awesome.

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Somehow i feel this is going to fall on the side of the scammer more then the honest players but i guess we will see. 

 

I think an R.I.P. to "Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out "

 

 

 

 Five years ago we might say PvP and PvE, but now we have a gameworld where many of the oldest PvP'rs are also some of the most respected PvE'rs, and a server scenario that allows even the most timid of PvE players to run off and be PvP monsters when it suits them.  Again what makes us unique.  But also something that unfairly divides our community.  

 

 

 

So it sounds like no more "this server is PvP and that one is PvE."

 

This could get ... interesting.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Oh i could spin all kinds of fun things with this thread and the recent staff restructuring but i will refrain, lol


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Nah Brash, I don't think Rolf is going to make the PvE servers suddenly go PvP again. That would not even be interesting.  ;)


 


Unless players could flag themselves as PvP 'available'. 


Edited by Clatius
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So it sounds like no more "this server is PvP and that one is PvE."

 

This could get ... interesting.

 

Or perhaps we start looking at it as if we have a game that allows for two unique player communities to exist in relative harmony.  Minus the code bleed that often creates issues for one side or the other.  We can argue about whether the egg or the chicken came first, but that just wastes the time we could spend on productive things doesn't it?

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I would much prefer Rolf spend a lot of his energies on the "pure" PvP server - Challenge/Epic/Chaos - even if they got a majority of dev time, than in him trying to "introduce" PvP concepts to the carebear servers in any way.

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 a game that allows for two unique player communities to exist in relative harmony

 

 

I would like to see this part elaborated on further

 

Rolf had a similar blog post a few years back, about how the game has drifted from his vision and wanting to bring it back in line. 

 

I imagine it is related to this:

 

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/66836-some-situations-where-the-game-has-deviated-from-the-vision-and-idea-over-the-years-blog/

 

Incidentally, I can no longer seem to find that original blog post on his blog?  Was it removed? Or am I looking in the wrong place?

 

I was looking in the wrong place :Phere is the right place

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Minus the code bleed that often creates issues for one side or the other.

 

+1 if it means code split.  For one, while it may imbalance PvP, true, KoS on Freedom really needs to be something more lethal than the current mildly annoyed letter it constitutes.

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Or perhaps we start looking at it as if we have a game that allows for two unique player communities to exist in relative harmony.  Minus the code bleed that often creates issues for one side or the other.  We can argue about whether the egg or the chicken came first, but that just wastes the time we could spend on productive things doesn't it?

This sounds like it "might be" a damn good direction,

 

Tie ins that sort of how to say, sew together the two communities?

 

After reading further in the thread, Ill stick with "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"  and hope for the best.

 

 

We do not ever see Wurm Online becoming like CCP or other large MMO companies, where our Terms of Service and our EULA state in simplest terms that “people do bad things, we don’t care, figure out how to take care of things yourself or ragequit†or the best one “don’t be stupid and you’ll be fineâ€. But we also are not in a position to intervene in cases where there is a clear player obligation to act in their own defense. Incorrect permissions, misunderstandings of valid and intended game mechanics, and even choosing to trade with other players that might not be the noblest of Wurmian’s are not going to be the Game Staff’s responsibility to mitigate when something goes wrong.

And how are you going to address this without inadvertently pushing a morale pedestal that not everyone agrees with. Not everyone has the same morale views. For instance in the US.."Money is Morality" Quoted from a conversation I had with a Federal Judge about bankruptcy and how its supposed to be a process vs its supposed to be a punishment. Point is people can understand hate much easier than morality or in the case of my example money. Hate is universally understood, morality is a variable. This is not to say that WURM should go the route of CCP as they are designed around exploiting everyones inner psychopath because without pvp and the mentality that makes people want to go out and blow stuff up, they dont have a game. WURM doesnt need this mentality at all to succeed.

 

But everyone of every flavor should have a place somewhere in WURM, even the psychopaths, even the complete nutjobs, even the religious zealots and all manner of degenerates and moral pillars out there.

 

To get back to the point, by saying or even implying that your not going to let the psychopath model reign supreme, by default, your setting up a morale baseline. Who decides what this morale baseline is? Ultimately the point is Staff alone cannot even begin to hope to achieve such a lofty goal without the full backing of the developers with hard coded ideas and solutions that allow all the different flavors of people not just to actively play WURM, but also thrive in it.

 

 

There has been much discussion lately on the forums, in IRC, and in game about the rules of Wurm Online, the duties and obligations of the Developers and the Game Staff, and the fact that actions and rulings can appear inconsistent and unfair based on game and player history. Many cases that seem to be similar from an observing players perspective can have any number of differences that make them unique from other cases. Usually the Game Staff is not able to communicate details about a players case with those not directly involved. This can often create the misconception that there is inconsistent support and even bias.

The inconsistency is largely due to the following

 

take all the GM's....give them each a private room with no communications.....then give them a GMing scenario...all of the scenarios exactly the same and ask them to write down the correct way to handle it........then count how many different answers you get. Then add in real biases, miscommunications, language barriers , age ranges, vastly differing RL experience levels and no standard way of interpreting the rules, and you have a gigantic mess.

 

I have heard all the excuses as to why a good level of consistency cannot be achieved, and they are just that, excuses. Consistency can be achieved by properly training people on the way CC wants the rules implemented. NOT letting everyone just do it however they think is correct, and then coming to a consensus after the fact. IMO if you put as much time and effort into training people how to correctly interpret the rules and consistently apply them as all the energy time and resources spent on having to make excuses and defend your position on the current standard we would have a much better, much more understood and much more acceptable set of rules to play by.

 

Now i get your post is about trying to address this, but exactly how are you going to, because without training, there is no real way to address this. Without training its just lip service. (ie, telling everyone what they want to hear)

Edited by sunsvortex
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I like this. Wurm has always felt relatively oppressive when it comes to staff intervention in what otherwise is a sandbox, "make your own adventure" game. That's not to say we don't need staff - we will always need people to volunteer their time to help, inform, and keep things fair outside of game mechanics.


 


I think what GM Timur is basically saying is that rules and policies of the staff *will* change based upon the growth of Wurm. It's a notice, a heads-up, that the standards of the past may not be the same in the future. This is exactly the level of communication that we players have been begging for.


 


As for player councils and the like, I think that's a great idea - if done right. The "done right" part is what's difficult, because I personally can't see any proper way to do this. I do feel that we need to fork the service levels between PvE and PvP - they should not be lumped into one as they are very different, especially in the areas of what a player can do to make themselves whole again or to rectify a situation with game mechanics. If I have one suggestion, it would be to choose a few GMs that do not primarily play on PvP to spend time there and get to know the players and the dynamics. This way there's less chance (or appearance) of bias.


 


Unfortunately I fear that many players will react negatively to this. I think we'll see more posts calling out the issues in the current permission systems and how updates have borked them in the past. If my comprehension is right, I believe those issues will still be supported. Those would fall under "bugs", so of course staff will do their best to help. I also feel the need to remind people that a new permissions system was announced a few months ago, wasn't it?


 


Anyway, hats off to the staff and to GM Timur.


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+1 if it means code split.  For one, while it may imbalance PvP, true, KoS on Freedom really needs to be something more lethal than the current mildly annoyed letter it constitutes.

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"there was some question of how drinking water while examining an item could result in instadeath"


hehe

 

#olddays

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I think what GM Timur is basically saying is that rules and policies of the staff *will* change based upon the growth of Wurm. It's a notice, a heads-up, that the standards of the past may not be the same in the future. This is exactly the level of communication that we players have been begging for.

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Aye that one was interesting.

"Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out"

But but but... I liked that :unsure:

 

KALI MA!!!
 

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 we will do everything we can to make sure we articulate those changes and the decisions behind them to you.

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thank you for trying to go in the right direction for all of us :D


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Nice post Tamorlane,

 

is it possible that we have a select group from pvp servers "1 from each kingdom" that can talk direct with possible devolpers/Gm's in regards to pvp bugs/ gameplay  some stuff that would not be deemed a bug/issue on the freedom servers.

 

this would allow a nice flow of information that can be communicated and would stop a lot of frustration from that player base?

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