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Collision Clarification

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Way to recognize and empathize with your fellow player.



"keep it broken so my personal workarounds were not a waste of time"



 


How about: "I did my extensive research and planning within the rules and limitations of the game system a few days ago, and now it's borked."


 


That's much more realistic. Personally, I just spent months redesigning my deed, only to have this new 'feature' that appeared clear out of the blue bork my security.


 


Is that my problem? Yes and no. It's my problem that it's a problem. It's Wurm's problem that I no longer give a crap to the point that I've let my alt's premium expire and my main expires in June. After that... 6 month hitatus AT LEAST. When I come back, I'll then gauge whether or not it's been tweaked to the point where I think my deed can actually be secure.


 


How about a simple IF>THEN ?


 


IF Wurmsecuritynotborked


THEN Premium reinstatement


 


IF Wurmsecuritystillborked


THEN Hasta la vista.


 


Simpatico?


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Admittedly, the ability to now fall into enclosures is not the ideal situation. The over-reaction to this is now more the typical problem blown out of proportion, as I see it.


 


Deed settings will disallow others to be able to pickup anything within them, as usual. House writs prevent anyone from taking anything from them if not on the writ, as usual. Uncompleted houses on deeds can't have anything taken from them, because of no-pickup deed settings. Make sure deeds settings are set properly, extremely simple to do, and there is no problem of things stolen from on deed tiles.


 


As for not wanting players to enter certain walled off areas on deed. If you see them inside let them out and be rid of them. Otherwise the problem is more on them to get out if entered unintended. I doubt any deeds will be constantly assaulted by players wandering around inside walled/fenced off areas, since nothing can really be gained by them from doing so. More likely some loss of theirs will be the result.


 


I found a newbie player farting against the inside of a house door to my mine entry some months ago. Somehow they had ended up inside my mine even though it was walled off all around the entrance with a house to enter from with doors locked. I guess they "fell" in through a corner of the stone fencing. I didn't even bother to ask but just let them out and they went on their way. Looked in the mine and nothing was damaged with no entry from within able to be created by deed settings. A momentary nuisance.


 


I envision much the same with this falling into deeds situation. Make sure your deed settings are as you want to protect everything and then let any intruders out. I doubt you will again see them inside and perhaps they will even be grateful for your assistance and have a favorable viewpoint of you in the future, if they meant no harm to begin with. When the few bad ones find there is nothing they can gain from this no doubt they won't return either.


 


Then once again relax and enjoy the privacy and security your deed provides, for the most part. Perhaps in the future the Dev's will find a way to resolve this situation which to me seems but a minor nuisance. Hardly the end of Wurm deed security, which in other ways is continuing to evolve and improve.


 


=Ayes=


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Dragons, airships, dwarf cannons, steampunk gliders, winged horses, giant grasshoppers and insects, can't wait, bring the mounts on! 


 


What exactly are people leaving outside locked doors they're so worried about? The vertical fence shield has always been a major block to progress, especially to opening up the skies, I hope the still existent vertical roof barrier gets a good solution too by the time it's needed. Crash landing a wasp through somebody's arch sounds good to me as do eventual ariel battles and travel. No one's deed is as susceptible as mine either, pretty sure I brought this to attention after accidentally falling over low and house walls shortly after the update. I see progress here and obviously something new to keep in mind while deeding and playing. Wurm has a lot of water and a lot of air, completely untapped. Feels like a breath of fresh air on the 2.5d to me.


 


Always thought well bred horses should be able to jump low walls, at the risk of death from multiple severes on a bad landing. Still think that is a good idea. The degree of pout in here is ridiculous.


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It is exactly as you say Ayes the deed settings prevent most things, but if people did that they wouldn't have anything to overreact about.


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It is hard to be confident, when your deed is "mostly" secure.  I keep most of my deed open for guests to visit + see my creations + eventually use my canal, but I keep my hell horses locked up, to prevent someone from walking in the pens and grief killing them.  Breeding them to 5s takes quite a bit longer than regular horses.  Traits don't seem to come as quickly.  Would be a shame to have a year of breeding work vanish from one nut job.


 


I've also spent a bit of silver building a massive compound of about 10 deeds, which took weeks of planning, over a thousand camillia sprouts and plenty of bricks/mortar to build.  I have to scrap the plan and redesign it all now.  No biggie.  Just 50s worth of deed creations and materials to scrap. Then there is my time.  Not going to put a price tag on that one.


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I keep most of my deed open for guests to visit + see my creations + eventually use my canal, but I keep my hell horses locked up, to prevent someone from walking in the pens and grief killing them.  Breeding them to 5s takes quite a bit longer than regular horses.  Traits don't seem to come as quickly.  Would be a shame to have a year of breeding work vanish from one nut job.

This definitely needs to be addressed. But a more intelligent solution would surely be to prevent creatures that are cared for by a villager or bred on that deed from being targeted by guards.

 

Or we just keep all progress from the game, because we have adapted and invested so much in the current state. I still think a roadmap for such fundamental gameplay changes would be very useful to have, because it takes so much effort to adapt to the peculiarities of the engine. But we've all given up hope for that, haven't we?

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What "progress"?  Bridges are progress.  I can understand needing to remove the "endless upward barrier from fences in order to accommodate bridges" part of the equation. If that is even part of the change at all, which I am not sure it even is. 


 


Bouncing freestyle across large distances into other people's deeds in complete defiance of most physics, as a newstyle parkour does not seem to be related to bridges in any way whatsoever.  


 


Perhaps if someone explained the "progress" part of this, it might be easier to swallow. PR team says "oh its not really jumping or flying" yet Rolf's post they quote, seem to say this is part of a first step into incorporating jumping and flying.   Twenty two pages of discussion, mostly saying players don;t really want all that flying and jumping and bouncing like superheros type of stuff.


 


 


 


I am starting to lean towards the idea of being able have "force field bubble permissions" on a deed as the only possible compromise solution to this so-called "progress" of adding invasive parkour WurmBurglar AssassinsCreed anti-gravity superhero abilities to the game.  If you can suspend disbelief for leaping 4-7 tiles from mountain to upperstory balconies 5 tiles away and eventually flying into deeds, you can suspend disbelief to invisible spirit guards and forcefield barriers. You still have perimeter to allow people to crosscross the countryside without having travel cut off.  As far as deed permissions currently providing "all the protection we could ever need" -- that only works if we trust the game developers to not suddenly break code or dump without any warning new changes into the game with little testing or discussion of impact to players. It takes a TRUST. Apparently that TRUST is not 100 percent there. .And the worst possible way to encourage such trust, is to suddenly introduce new code that people do not understand and seems to add little true "progress" to the game.


 


I can understand YOU might think adding flying and superhuman three dimensional time warp abilities to the game is mega cool and is therefore  PROGRESS.


 


But to say we are "over-reacting" because we do not want that type of stuff added, especially suddenly added to code with almost no testing and no advanced explanation, is not really ... fair. 


 


This is how you DESTROY trust between players and developers, not build it. 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


.


Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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if you are doing this then atleast add something like bobwire/spikes for defensive that will hurt the player more than just the fall


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On newbservers like freedom non pvp servers they could add a function that those that get into deeds using this technique will be put in a small 1x1 pen prison on the deed. Suicide wont work or anything. And they need be logged in 24 hours Before they can escape / OR the owner kills them then they can spawn elsewhere.

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What "progress"?  Bridges are progress.  I can understand needing to remove the "endless upward barrier from fences in order to accommodate bridges" part of the equation. If that is even part of the change at all, which I am not sure it even is. 

 

Bouncing freestyle across large distances into other people's deeds in complete defiance of most physics, as a newstyle parkour does not seem to be related to bridges in any way whatsoever.  

 

Here is what spellcast said:

I'm pretty sure the benefit is bridges.  Without the change to the way the game handles collision models you wouldn't be able to pass under them or remain on top of them. It also allows for fences inside of structures i believe, since they no longer are infinitely tall, they should no longer block passage on floors above/below if they are in the middle of a writ. 

 

I am pretty sure I recall the first iteration of bridges on the test server way back when having those two issues anyhow. 

 

It seems pretty related to me anyway. Before we had a 2D plane to move over, with fixed barriers (walls). Then we had multistory, which if I would guess could have been just a story number integer offset from the ground. Only walls on your story would hinder movement. Now with bridges it's a kind of 3D movement, or at least gradual height coordinate? Who knows for sure? But certainly Rolf's post from way past was hinting at that.

 

This system needs more tweaking and balancing, because the current physics (I guess you could call it part of a physics implementation) is ridiculous. But the progress is that we have such physics at all, with the benefit being that we now have bridges.

 

 

But to say we are "over-reacting" because we do not want that type of stuff added, especially suddenly added to code with almost no testing and no advanced explanation, is not really ... fair. 

 

This is how you DESTROY trust between players and developers, not build it.

Absolutely true, and nothing new in this department... that's why I mentioned a roadmap, somewhat furtively though.

Edited by Marshlander

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Bouncing freestyle across large distances into other people's deeds in complete defiance of most physics, as a newstyle parkour does not seem to be related to bridges in any way whatsoever.  

 

 

I am fairly confident that if I jumped off the hayloft of the barn and landed up against the outside fence to the horse paddock, I would plant my face squarely into that fence and remain faceplanted and bloodied on the outside of the paddock and not bounce over it. Say no to blue unicorns! Say yes to Gummy Bear physics!

Edited by Audrel
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Read every post from both topics on this. I agree some of this is an overreaction but take note that the whole feedback/keeping us informed thing didn't last long. I'm really starting to lean to the permission system needs to allow us full control of our deed. I can hope when the new system comes it is so simple my dog can understand it with added features you can control and no overwriting commands(mind you I said hope). Right now I just have to trust most people aren't jerks. I like that there are physical locks on this game it novel but should really be protecting your stuff if your not on deed. Can we get a post about all the tricks to getting away with stuff on deed?


Edited by Lupe

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I lose a solitary 5spd hell horse to this joke of a "feature" rest assured between my bank, myself, and paypal, every penny spent on wurm during 2015 will be recovered by yours truly.


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dirt wall | 100 slope down | tall stone wall | flat grass | flat grass.


 


I ran off the dirt wall and landed in the 2nd flat grass inside deed.  I only sustained a medium bruise and easily healed myself with salve.  


 


I did the same thing with a building next to the wall.  I wanted to see if I could see inside the building to see if a raider could inspect the inside to see if it was worth lockpicking.  I ran off the wall, bounced from the roof and landed next to the building between the wall and the building and clipped in enough to see everything in the building.  I then climbed back up to the top of the dirt wall.  no injury!


 


This is not realism.  What other RELEASED game you know of injects changes to the mechanics of the game in a way which promotes griefing, cheating, etc. with no explanation,  warning, or documentation of the effects of the change beforehand - and then tells you to deal with it by redesigning or spending money for higher security?


 


This is just crap and you better believe I am mad about it.


Edited by Eyesgood
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Read every post from both topics on this. I agree some of this is an overreaction but take note that the whole feedback/keeping us informed thing didn't last long. I'm really starting to lean to the permission system needs to allow us full control of our deed. I can hope when the new system comes it is so simple my dog can understand it with added features you can control and no overwriting commands(mind you I said hope). Right now I just have to trust most people aren't jerks. I like that there are physical locks on this game it novel but should really be protecting your stuff if your not on deed. Can we get a post about all the tricks to getting away with stuff on deed?

 

I don't see it as an overreaction when I built walls to keep people out and CC decided to let them gummy bounce over them. I would have no problem at all if they ran off a cliff and splattered to death inside my fences.

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Some basic rudimentary realism for you.


 


1 story on a house is about 3 meters. I think in Wurm it is 2.7 3.2 (confirmed in wiki under Bridges) meters (27 32 dirts). A fall of 3 meters can be walked away from laughing but it can also break bones and kill. Take 10 dirts = 1 meter from there. Just how realistic is this all now? 


 


Realism is a huge argument in this game when it comes to animals and decorative things. The outcry over the silly looking giant green mountain lion is deafening. Yet add a woefully unrealistic way to invade someone's space and the same people who hate colored animals are all gaga over the awesome progress in the game . More gaga then they were over the unrealistically pink unicorns (because even the giant spiders and trolls agree that REAL unicorns are all white) being removed and more gaga than they are vehement about denying their return. A fall of 120 dirts, 12 meters, should bounce you into a morgue yet we will praise it because it's a true step in the right direction to a 3D realistic world - a world with dragons, trolls, lava creatures, sorcery and magic given by gods but no unrealistically blue unicorns.


 


Give me back my colored unicorns if we have to keep this.


Edited by Audrel

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You expect logic from they who applaud griefers and thieves?


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Oh, I forgot. Let's not forget the holographic trees because we wouldn't want such a lowly thing as a solid tree interrupting the bouncy gummy fun!


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I completely understand the reaction I just don't think it is going to help much. If someone higher up does read some of these they aren't going to take the angry sounding ones seriously. Just how people are. No one listens if they think they are getting yelled at. I try to keep my anger off of this side of the keyboard. I'm as paranoid, frustrated and mistrusting of all this as I can get. I couldn't work rework my deed if I wanted to and I don't think anyone should have to. I am 50/50 between most aren't stupid enough to fall into people's deeds when they can't get anything and if someone can do something they will do it. We are all spinning our wheels right now. 


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so, that other thread mentions flying, and creatures, and guards shooting arrows at the flying creatures, and jumping.... status of those things please?


 


+1 to unicorns being able to fly! 2 people on a unicorn and have it fly? AWESOME!


 


by unicorns i mean Pegasus? :)


Edited by Horsch

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There's no getting around the fact that fences have been a long-running feature in Wurm. For many years, they've been effective at keeping other players out of areas you didn't want them to go. If they were off-deed, it took an inordinate amount of bashing to bring them down. Now, approximately a large cart full of dirt.


 


Under the new mechanics, and unless you're willing to surround your deed with buildings, your sole defense is deed permissions -- which are good. They're probably good enough for my little deed. But most people are accustomed to having two layers of defense -- fencing plus permissions, especially people with a lot of animals.


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I'm pretty sure the benefit is bridges.  Without the change to the way the game handles collision models you wouldn't be able to pass under them or remain on top of them. It also allows for fences inside of structures i believe, since they no longer are infinitely tall, they should no longer block passage on floors above/below if they are in the middle of a writ. 

 

I am pretty sure I recall the first iteration of bridges on the test server way back when having those two issues anyhow. 

Sorry mate, are you telling me that the ability of "falling" horizontally is what makes bridges possible?

Then you shouldn't have made bridges possible, cause falling horizontal is simply game breaking, its stupid, and a 5 year old would have seen the problem with allowing that.

But in all honesty, i do understand that the common sense of a 5 year old might be much to expect here... But here's a lot of people telling you its bonkers right now. So please do something about it.

If you had to change "gravity" to add collision, then you did it wrong.

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I can understand YOU might think adding flying and superhuman three dimensional time warp abilities to the game is mega cool and is therefore  PROGRESS.

 

But to say we are "over-reacting" because we do not want that type of stuff added, especially suddenly added to code with almost no testing and no advanced explanation, is not really ... fair. 

 

This is how you DESTROY trust between players and developers, not build it. 

 

 

This, in a nutshell.

 

Downloading Project Gorgon. When it's done, it's bye bye to Wurm until winter, at the very least. Perhaps forever, depending on what happens between now and Christmas. Or maybe PG or another game will be so good that I'll just decide I've had enough of the shoddy communication here between the players and those we pay for a product, and just be done with it.

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This, in a nutshell.

 

Downloading Project Gorgon. When it's done, it's bye bye to Wurm until winter, at the very least. Perhaps forever, depending on what happens between now and Christmas. Or maybe PG or another game will be so good that I'll just decide I've had enough of the shoddy communication here between the players and those we pay for a product, and just be done with it.

 

Good luck in your voyages!

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Good luck in your voyages!

 

Less money less paid staff less server resources.  Good luck at this rate.

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