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Wossoo

Collision Clarification

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"People don't even need an uphill position now... I have a small island, fenced with chain-fence all around. Had a dead horse there today - butchering showed it had an arrow in it. I don't even own a bow, let alone practice on that island, so there is no doubt that now any pens within reach of arrows are unsafe." 


 


 


Edit: it's prevented if the deed the animals are on disallows it


Edited by Shadz

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"People don't even need an uphill position now... I have a small island, fenced with chain-fence all around. Had a dead horse there today - butchering showed it had an arrow in it. I don't even own a bow, let alone practice on that island, so there is no doubt that now any pens within reach of arrows are unsafe." 

 

Please, please be trolling...

 

Edit: thank god, it's prevented if the deed the animals are on disallows it

Wish I was...

 

[23:09:09] An arrow with a thin straight head that can more easily be pulled out of a killed creature. Cedar arrows are easier to make straight and smooth. It is made from cedarwood. It could be improved with a log.

[23:09:09] You can barely make out the signature of its maker,  '.ha...l...'.

 

Deedsettings: Non-citizens are not allowed to do anything. Including killing creatures.

 

Edit: Ok, just logged in and found it - horse was on a tiny strip not on deed (to get an occasional spawn-animal)... doh. Still doesn't take away fences can now be passed though.

Edited by Kianga

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Wish I was...

 

[23:09:09] An arrow with a thin straight head that can more easily be pulled out of a killed creature. Cedar arrows are easier to make straight and smooth. It is made from cedarwood. It could be improved with a log.

[23:09:09] You can barely make out the signature of its maker,  '.ha...l...'.

 

Deedsettings: Non-citizens are not allowed to do anything. Including killing creatures.

just tested, prevented it on a neighbours deed, allows me to aim on my own deed but can't fire 'cant get a clear shot of ___'

 

having said that, [00:19:23] <Shads> [00:18:47] That would be illegal.  ...horse next to it, [00:18:52] You start aiming at Venerable fat Briskrun.

Edited by Shadz

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"People don't even need an uphill position now... I have a small island, fenced with chain-fence all around. Had a dead horse there today - butchering showed it had an arrow in it. I don't even own a bow, let alone practice on that island, so there is no doubt that now any pens within reach of arrows are unsafe." 

 

 

Edit: it's prevented if the deed the animals are on disallows it

 

No. We just sailed up the coast and randomly targeted animals all over people's deed from well within longbow range. I'm not going to shoot a stranger's horses to see if I can shoot.

 

EDIT: next deed up the coast, I couldn't however that animal was hitched.

Edited by Audrel

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So hit- and miss even on deed with the right settings? Anything special about that Briskrun (for instance not branded, or not cared for, while the 'protected' one was - something like that to be found?)


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I experimented shooying animals in my offdeed pasture

 

I cannot target any hitched animal without getting a karma warning, even if I own the cart and the deed
I cannot shoot over any fence without an AIMING issue even when I stand on a hill above them:  [16:43:12] You fail to get a clear shot of Aged fat Starkdance.
I can only hit animals not hitched and no fence

So I guess the wagonhorse that I had die,  had a fast acting disease... it seems the only possible explanation

But I do not know why the other person butchered ananimal with an arrow unless perhaps itr weas a very old arrow?

Also may still need more testing

 

 

 

My main issue is that we are, basically.  told:

 

We made some code changes without warning that are now live and may cause security vulnerabilities for some deeds.

We cannot say much other than it somehow involves jumping or flying or otherwise passing over fences and buuildings from a higher elevation.

Rolf mentioned something two years ago about patching a flaw that got people trapped in fences, and also maybe people someday flying on dragons.

So that was a heads up to everyone. Two years ago so y'all had plenty time to prepare.

We hope you will now all take whatever effoirts are needed to redeign your deeds to protect it against an unclear vulnerability, because we DID warn you.

ANYTHING that happens is now your own fault.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Seems to be as you say. I can target anything that is not hitched. I cannot shoot at anything over a fence because of aiming issues. My skill, however, is only 33. No idea if that is a factor.


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Firstly I will say that the collision system does not allow players to jump. Neither flying nor jumping have been implemented by this update. The issue is the new collision system allows players to fall over things they never could before from height..

 

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Problem is Alectrys, you can go *over* 7 tiles by falling, 1 tile of defence isn't enough to actually prevent people getting into your deed :/

 

Right. Someone could very easily build a tower and use that to get over your fences. True, they have to get out again, but the fact still remains, there is no longer security in some of the most common old methods. This truly sucks the big cigar.

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Right. Someone could very easily build a tower and use that to get over your fences. True, they have to get out again, but the fact still remains, there is no longer security in some of the most common old methods. This truly sucks the big cigar.

 

Which is around the part where, after a person's animals are all slain, the griefer calls a GM to discipline the EVIL GRIEFING DEED OWNER for not providing an easy way out..... and the GM either falls for it or finds it hilarious to join the griefing.

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But I do not know why the other person butchered ananimal with an arrow unless perhaps itr weas a very old arrow?

 

 

Anything you shoot into a creature will stay in it for life. All the way until it dies and its corpse opens its "inventory".

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I really like the comments from Keenan and Ayes, about a magical barrier.  Ayes method from Second Life sounds perfect.  Enabled, nobody can set foot on your deed, or only specific friends (different friend levels with the new permissions coming out) or allies.  Let walls be for off deed security and for appearances on deed.


 


I'm going to drop it in suggestions.


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So people have to build roofs to secure their deeds? There goes all the wall/fence options. Most deeds on freedom have fences on the deed border. Griefers can raise dirt on the perimeter and jump inside, great. I hope this was nessesary to add (I'm not up to date), but I assume it had to do with bridges. Deed permissions will be looked over, but I don't feel comfortable with people getting inside my deed.

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I'm personally in favour of the new collision changes, notification and teething issues aside.


 


BUT.


 


No one on the PvE servers should ever have to even consider designing their deed for safety and security.


Setting the correct permissions *should* be enough to keep their possessions and animals safe from others with less than ideal intentions.


But that doesn't seem to be enough, seeing that many here are expressing that they feel the need to actually undo their creative projects and fortify a deed to remain safe.


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I'm personally in favour of the new collision changes, notification and teething issues aside.

 

BUT.

 

No one on the PvE servers should ever have to even consider designing their deed for safety and security.

Setting the correct permissions *should* be enough to keep their possessions and animals safe from others with less than ideal intentions.

But that doesn't seem to be enough, seeing that many here are expressing that they feel the need to actually undo their creative projects and fortify a deed to remain safe.

I also like the changes , I see zero problem with them ,my deed settings make my deed secure, my deed is open to all I even put a highway thru the center of it , I would love drop ins ! ( in every sense of the word ) I do not understand the need to wall of a deed when playing PVE, there is nothing better than wandering the servers and admiring peoples build styles .

 

 

Ninja adage : For those that say they live behind walls for security , if you live on a PVE server your security is built in the deed permissions and house writs  , for PVP players i'm pretty sure ya'll wont just stand by and let a warring faction build a dirt mountain / bridge/ close to any of your deeds .

 

(edited as I spell like a drunken monkey and my sentence structure is horrid ) 

Edited by Tarator
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I'm torn on all of this for one main reason:


 


To me, this is a fix - not a bug and not a nerf.


 


Wurm has always seemed broken to me in terms of how a "3D" game should behave, because it never did behave like a 3D game. From the "pillar" layout of terrain to collisions, Wurm has always felt like a 2D game that was hacked to provide a third perspective. Now we see true 3D collisions, and possibly the start to a true 3D engine, and everyone is saying they broke the game.


 


I do get it though.


 


If you spent months to build a deed a certain way, your work should not be made insecure and vulnerable by an update like this. It would have been a far better idea for them to have instanced new 3D objects with the proper collision for new walls and fences and left the old objects alone. This might have made you destroy a building and rebuild it to be bridge-compatible, but I think that would have been a far better alternative to what we have now. It might be too late now, unfortunately. This was likely a fix to make bridges work, so in order to "undo" it, it might require taking back one of the biggest updates we've had in a long time. You will undo other people's hard work just to save your own. Is there a good solution?


 


I'm also not seeing anyone talk about *surviving* the falls discussed. I'm sure a short fall over a low wall is survivable, but can we be sure that a player can survive falling from enough of a height to clear a tall one? Or with the idea that no one likes, to leave a deed tile between your walls and a slope, can a player survive *that* fall? I'm not making a challenge here, I'd just like some one to test the theory and provide feedback on it.


 


Speaking of, from the sound of Wosso's post, it would seem that they are not treating these situations as player traps. I'm getting that from the fact that they're saying to "work with the deed owner" or even "suicide" before putting a ticket in. It sounds like wandering adventurers have more to lose really, if falling into your deed means they have to suicide. ;)


 


Lastly, the note about securing the places high enough to fall from is a rather sane idea. Most 3D games keep players out of areas they shouldn't be in by surrounding that area with walls, even if they are invisible ones. That's what they are suggesting to you now - is to surround these areas in such a way that you *can't* fall into them. Before you say "Well they can just make another dirt tower and fall from that" - I remind you that falling *does* hurt. If someone has to now fall from possibly twice the height to go over two walls, I don't think they're going to live long after.


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Oh good, so it wasn't a bug or exploiting when I "accidentally" fell into another player's house...

 

MMMmmm yes... very good to know...

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Klaa
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Ninja adage : For those that say they live behind walls for security , if you live on a PVE server your security is built in the deed permissions and house writs 

 

you are so wrong. i remember the days when i had an open deed with everything single checkbox unchecked and someone came by and happily put locks on every single bsb i had. in houses and outside.... okay. they finally fixed it, but you are far away from being safe on your deed on pve. far far away... 

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you are so wrong. i remember the days when i had an open deed with everything single checkbox unchecked and someone came by and happily put locks on every single bsb i had. in houses and outside.... okay. they finally fixed it, but you are far away from being safe on your deed on pve. far far away... 

I remember when that was happening ( locks put on items )  and remember it being addressed , my deed remains open /rare forges ovens carts wagons /hota dragon statue all safe as houses , I make sure I have my deed / writ settings set correctly and have differing village roles assigned 

Edited by Tarator

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Anything you shoot into a creature will stay in it for life. All the way until it dies and its corpse opens its "inventory".

Actually, there was a bug, time ago, when someone could shoot from the distance to your animals inside deed, doing it from outside the deed. So, some times, people used to grief that way if the deed gates were open.

Other way was, with the assistance of a Vyn priest/ess, summoning a tornado.

 

There is no secure settings for a deed in animals´s matters, but otherwise you can always protect your items.

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I also like the changes , I see zero problem with them ,my deed settings make my deed secure, my deed is open to all I even put a highway thru the center of it , I would love drop ins ! ( in every sense of the word ) I do not understand the need to wall of a deed when playing PVE, there is nothing better than wandering the servers and admiring peoples build styles .

 

I have 5-speed hell horses.

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@Redd This was picked up and publicly mentioned by Rolf around a year and a half ago, in this thread.

 

Wait, is Public Relations Officer trying to insult us on purpose?

 

"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

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