Wossoo

Collision Clarification

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Wossoo pretty much described the situation as I had understood it before this explanation (eye m smert!). On the PvE servers I see no real problem for those who are not unfortunate enough to fall inside of enclosed areas from heights. The fallers are the ones who will have problems getting out again but I would think GM's should assist them if this is claimed to be unintended.

 

As for all the hype about deed security being compromised, this would only be so because of improper settings to prevent losses, as has always been the case. Again, much ado about nothing.

 

One thing I remember about Second Life is that they had a feature which would prevent anyone from being able to enter your property if enabled. In Wurm it could be looked upon as a repulsive KoS feature, rather than the current attacking one. If something like this could be implemented for deeds for individual names, everyone, friends, allies or what have you, it would really be a great system for allowing or disallowing others to enter deeds.

 

=Ayes=

 

Until another bug that messes up your permissions comes along. There's been quite a few the past couple of months. Myopia does not help anyone see the big picture. This isn't a new thing happening in a vacuum.

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We would try to hold this implementation off for as long as possible since obviously you would need preparations but once a decision is made it would probably happen after a month or two.

 

So... uh.... where is that month or two notification of people being able to sail over our walls?

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I'm just going to lay it out and be done with it.

 

Every time I see a new 'fix' or 'patch' or addition to the game, I don't think.. "Oh, hey, new stuff!"

 

I think... "OMFG what did they break THIS time."

 

That's the honest truth. I'm more concerned about what you fked up than what you added or 'fixed'.

 

My deed is close to a mountain and the slope is quite steep.

 

I just spent MONTHS re-doing my deed how I wanted it, all within the then-current permission set almost to the point of being neurotic over deed permission settings and making sure everything was such and such and so and so, so that I'd be unable to be griefed.

 

Also, since I'm blocked by other deeds on three corners I have been very limited on how I can re-design my deed and 'deed it or lose it' doesn't work when someone who logs on twice a year has sucked up a zillion tiles of perimeter next to me and I can't expand my deed that way to secure my borders.

 

So after all these months of work, redesigning my deed to be very secure and self-sufficient in preparation of not being able to play very much over the summer, I then log in and find that people can now build a little tower or dirt ramp and sail right over my walls.

 

I built those walls and gates with the understanding that if they were ON my deed, they were inviolate. That no one could do anything to get through them as long as they were locked. Period.

Now, that is not so, people can sail right in.

 

Now I also find out that I have to put ROOFS on everything to keep people out, wheras I'd not put roofs on certain buildings before, as I was not done building them, and was waiting for bridges to perhaps put a bridge between a few of them. But now I'll have to roof them or risk people being able to sail onto them and climb into my deed that day.

 

This is 100% pure crap. I absolutely don't have time for this shiz right now.

 

I've got an hour of gaming time per day, max, until winter. And I'm not spending it redesigning something that worked yesterday and is borked today due to shoddy programming.
Therefore...

 

The premium on my prime alt expires today. It's not being renewed.

 

The premium on my main expires in June. It's not being renewed.

 

I will be taking a hiatus until winter.

 

Maybe by then you'll get your crap together and code something to allow us some better deed protection. But I won't hold my breath.
 

Edited by Belrindor

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Im sorry but how is a year and a half an okay time frame for people to remember something as important as this? Not to mention the fact he doesnt even say "In the update when we add bridges your deeds will suddenly be vulnerable to flying people". It just astounds me that the only answer from the PR Manager is "We warned you in a thread which doesnt even say that this issue is coming 1 and a half years ago"..

 

"We probably should have reminded everyone" Yes yes you should have.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Yes-- naturally we are upset, nervous, paranoid and combative.

 

 

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And people keep saying it doesn't affect Freedom because your permission settings will protect you. That's beside the point and absolutely moot. I built walls to keep people out of places I don't want them going. It's MY deed. "Deed it or lose it." Remember that? I did. And I put a wall around it. And now that wall is useless. Deed it, wall it, or lose it? That's past tense now. Deed it, wall it, put a dome over it, move it underground and reinforce it... wait... we don't have domes and we can't build underground. I guess we lose it since part of deeding it is deciding who has access and who doesn't and now that doesn't much matter.


 


Also, it's not about the 99 people who accidentally fall into it. It's about the 1 person who intentionally falls into it. I don't have any protections for accidents. I have all of them for intentions.


Edited by Audrel

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Here is an example of ways people can use this to grief -- there is a road going UP past a new player's off deed enclosure. They know there is a risk living off deed but bashing down fences just to kill all their animals, is not an easy task and not one most players would resort to.


 


However now if someone wants to "get" them, they roll a throwaway alt, jump off the road incline (naked with a troll club), kill all their animals, then suicide out again. 


 


There may be other things I cannot visualize in advance, on a deed. That's why people have now returned to the concept of fencing everything back up again, because it is too exhausting trying to keep track of ways people can grief.


 


 


 


The bottom line is that most of us who chose PvE servers, did so because we did not want a situation of player aggression against other players being "acceptable" or encouraged gameplay.  We would all be frolicking on PvP servers if we liked that sort of thing.


 


We did not want "clever people versus stupid people," sheep vs wolves, or whatever someone choose to call it.


 


We don't want to be told because we were "a stupid person" that we (or our friends)  are now fair game for the "clever" person.


 

We just want to be left in peace.


 


That's all.


Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.


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Here is an example of ways people can use this to grief -- there is a road going UP past a new player's off deed enclosure. They know there is a risk living off deed but bashing down fences just to kill all their animals, is not an easy task and not one most players would resort to.

 

However now if someone wants to "get" them, they roll a throwaway alt, jump off the road incline (naked with a troll club), kill all their animals, then suicide out again. 

 

The bottom line is that most of us who chose PvE servers, did so because we did not want a situation of player aggression against other players being "acceptable" or encouraged gameplay.

 

We would all be frolicking on PvP servers if we liked that sort of thing.

 

We did not want "clever people versus stupid people," sheep vs wolves, or whatever someone choose to call it.

 

We just want to be left in peace.

 

That's all.

 

Deed it or lose it. Its the motto brash. You may live in peace all you want, That's completely fine with everyone. However, If you don't put in the effort to protect it, You will receive that efforts worth of protection for it.

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cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

 

cry a river, build a boat, and sail around it. Sound good also?

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However, If you don't put in the effort to protect it,

 

 

I have four years of paranoia on my side so I am probably ok.  Personally. 

 

I have zero friends, zero alliances, zero villagers.  

 

That's the price I pay to make sure I can be "safe".

 

But I really have to question whether I want to encourage my friends and my family to come to Wurm.

 

Again if veteran places like Silent Hill, Factional Fight, Gnomegates and other "veteran" players can be griefed/stolen and they all took care and effort, yet people told them "haHA your own fault! Deal."  how possibly can a newer player ever feel they are not at any risk?

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Firstly I will say that the collision system does not allow players to jump. Neither flying nor jumping have been implemented by this update. The issue is the new collision system allows players to fall over things they never could before from height.

 

lol it doesnt allow people to jump it just allows people to jump,worst explanation ever.

 

 i would gladly have buildings back to back all around my deed,but wurm doesnt allow that either you need spaces between them,so what you are really saying its, dont worry its imposble to make deeds safe, as soon as some other permission bug comes around,everybody will be screwed.

 

lets say i have an unlocked cart or one with permissions set to everybody cause i only use it inside my walled deed and nobody can take it,now people can jump on my deed unhitch the animals and kill them.

Edited by Brynden

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I also would like a GM clarification, I just had an Aged horse hitched to a wagon in a fenced perimeter crop field  somehow killed. It is possible it was by "friendly fire" while my daughter practiced archery on her house above hill from the area where I keep my wagon.

 

We will be working out a safe and secure archery range for her, it that was the case.

 

But I am curious to know whether this means people can now shoot animals from a safe "uphill" position, over a fence, even if those animals are hitched to a cart or a wagon.

 

I can work with my family members but if it is outsiders I am not really as protected from people with bows.  Can another person, not part of my deed, come shoot over fences at animals hitched to carts and wagons as long as they "sniper fire" from a hidden area above the animals.

 

 

 

I experimented shooying animals in my offdeed pasture

 

I cannot target any hitched animal without getting a karma warning, even if I own the cart and the deed
I cannot shoot over any fence without an AIMING issue even when I stand on a hill above them:  [16:43:12] You fail to get a clear shot of Aged fat Starkdance.
I can only hit animals not hitched and no fence


So I guess the wagonhorse that I had die,  had a fast acting disease... it seems the only possible explanation

 

But I do not know why the other person butchered ananimal with an arrow unless perhaps itr weas a very old arrow?

 

Also may still need more testing

 

.

 

* just to update, I did a search through all my event logs and the wagon horse had appeared in EVENT logs the day before as being diseased, as the wagon was parked in an offdeed perimeter area, so that is undoubtedly also the cause of death.

Edited by Brash_Endeavors

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Time and time again things change in wurm, they have be for and they will in the future. Why is it every time something change we all act like someone kill our puppy.


 


Here is a change, if you have a HH's in a pen near a wall that maybe jumpable, move it. We have no problems building 20 tile bridges, doing the work for that, but when it comes to perhaps moving some pens wall, the world ends. 


 


Rolf changes something and we get pages of complaints. There are ways to prevent this, just do them.


 


There are so many things that get implemented in to this games and so many complains, really? it's a game. adapt. 


 


Fame me if you like, pretty sure a lot of people agree with me and they wither cbf reading the forums, which is probably best or just agree to get on with it.


 


I do agree there needs to be something added for the pvp side of this though. 

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But I am curious to know whether this means people can now shoot animals from a safe "uphill" position, over a fence, even if those animals are hitched to a cart or a wagon.

 

I can work with my family members but if it is outsiders I am not really as protected from people with bows.  Can another person, not part of my deed, come shoot over fences at animals hitched to carts and wagons as long as they "sniper fire" from a hidden area above the animals.

 

 

When I was a noobie working with catapults, I quickly found out that you could not target any random building with them on a PVE server. However, we set up some walls to practice on, and the catapult missed, went a few squares off from where it should not have been, and took the roof clean off of my mate's crappy little 1 x 1 building. The roof was only like 2ql or so.

 

I could not target it directly or intentionally but a 'miss' took the roof clean off. It also gave me 'hunted' status for an hour. :P

 

It's likely such a thing is the case here. Where you may not be able to directly target something, but a 'miss' goes astray and kills things. Not hard to drop an archery target in front of someone's pens and just have at it, eh?

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Here is a change, if you have a HH's in a pen near a wall that maybe jumpable, move it. We have no problems building 20 tile bridges, doing the work for that, but when it comes to perhaps moving some pens wall, the world ends. 

 

 

Because people who deeded hugging a mountain had fair warning right?   Guess they can MOVE THE BLOODY MOUNTAIN?

 

(In case you're wondering, My deeds are safe from said situations provided no one brings a few hundred dirts in which case I'll push until that person's banned or Wurm loses it's Paypal license or something equally drastic.... still doesn't mean I gotta antagonize the players who DO have this new problem).

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I have four years of paranoia on my side so I am probably ok.  Personally. 

 

I have zero friends, zero alliances, zero villagers.  

 

That's the price I pay to make sure I can be "safe".

 

But I really have to question whether I want to encourage my friends and my family to come to Wurm.

 

Again if veteran places like Silent Hill, Factional Fight, Gnomegates and other "veteran" players can be griefed/stolen and they all took care and effort, yet people told them "haHA your own fault! Deal."  how possibly can a newer player ever feel they are not at any risk?

 

Thats why we have the Support Ticket system brash. It can be safe, And is safe. 

 

Regarding factional fight and others, They are at risk because they broadcast their routine. It isn't wise to record your place and put it all over the place and not expect some youtube troll to come by and find a way to damage the broadcasters content. Its inevitable. 

 

Gnomegates took no care or effort, And he was treated as such with that deal. But im not gonna get into that, Im just gonna say that his/her situation does NOT follow under what i said. at all.

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Yea, I'm close to a mountain. Maybe I can surface mine it down. I'd only take six months. But... wait... no, I can't. Because someone who logs on twice a year only to pay their upkeep on that gargantuan monstrosity next to me has deeded the entire fricking mountain. But at least Wurm gets revenue from it I suppose.


 


And I'm not moving my deed. Just got done spending months redesigning it, and it's been in the same place since two weeks after I first started playing. I've deeded six other places that I've let go since then. Not this one, it's my favorite one and is my virtual online 'home'.


 


So I guess I'm just screwed then.


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Time and time again things change in wurm, they have be for and they will in the future. Why is it every time something change we all act like someone kill our puppy.

 

Here is a change, if you have a HH's in a pen near a wall that maybe jumpable, move it. We have no problems building 20 tile bridges, doing the work for that, but when it comes to perhaps moving some pens wall, the world ends. 

 

Rolf changes something and we get pages of complaints. There are ways to prevent this, just do them.

 

There are so many things that get implemented in to this games and so many complains, really? it's a game. adapt. 

 

Fame me if you like, pretty sure a lot of people agree with me and they wither cbf reading the forums, which is probably best or just agree to get on with it.

 

I do agree there needs to be something added for the pvp side of this though. 

Personally, I designed my deed the way I did because that's how I wanted the deed. The deed I pay for each month. Why should I have to change it around into a style I don't like, with time I don't have, because a dev thought something players were against should be added?

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this is a can of wurms opened again.  It does have alot of issues the most unavoidable is the mine enterance issue .  as they are often off deed and only protected by walls with or with out a gate house, however there is no way to protect the enterance now from players falling into some mine enerances.  If that happens and you have any kind of securing of the enterance its now a trap.  As I see it there is only one way to prevent this and thats to put a mine door on the enterance as well as long as that enerance is less then 90 slope.  So if you have a mine enterace you must fence around it to keep most out put door on it so its not a trap if its over 90 slope pay to have it collapsed and surface mine to the point the enterance is 90 or less then put on the door.  It is still a issue as a p[layer can fall onto the door then bash it in and fall in or the door can decay and you have now made a trap.   Please make droping in a mine that has a fence no longer a trap its no different then droping in to a enclosure or deed with a fence.  Except if the person was smart they droped in with a pick and can most likely mine their way out.  All in all the GM will have alot of new bussness from nobs droping in to deeds or even mines or enclosures.  


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I also would like a GM clarification, I just had an Aged horse hitched to a wagon in a fenced perimeter crop field  somehow killed. It is possible it was by "friendly fire" while my daughter practiced archery on her house above hill from the area where I keep my wagon.

 

We will be working out a safe and secure archery range for her, it that was the case.

 

But I am curious to know whether this means people can now shoot animals from a safe "uphill" position, over a fence, even if those animals are hitched to a cart or a wagon.

 

I can work with my family members but if it is outsiders I am not really as protected from people with bows.  Can another person, not part of my deed, come shoot over fences at animals hitched to carts and wagons as long as they "sniper fire" from a hidden area above the animals.

 

 

 

.

People don't even need an uphill position now... I have a small island, fenced with chain-fence all around. Had a dead horse there today - butchering showed it had an arrow in it. I don't even own a bow, let alone practice on that island, so there is no doubt that now any pens within reach of arrows are unsafe. Meaning you now need a real large deed, larger then 40x40 (of course highwalled and lined with longhouses.. yeah really how we like our deeds to be...) and then maybe have a small safe area in the middle, in the size of what you made your deed to be past that minimum 40 (2x longbow distance - and I think that isnt even the max distance that bow can shoot).

 

I think this update will bring in some players, and push out more. Again.

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Yea, I'm close to a mountain. Maybe I can surface mine it down. I'd only take six months. But... wait... no, I can't. Because someone who logs on twice a year only to pay their upkeep on that gargantuan monstrosity next to me has deeded the entire fricking mountain. But at least Wurm gets revenue from it I suppose.

 

And I'm not moving my deed. Just got done spending months redesigning it, and it's been in the same place since two weeks after I first started playing. I've deeded six other places that I've let go since then. Not this one, it's my favorite one and is my virtual online 'home'.

 

So I guess I'm just screwed then.

 

Your being over dramatic about this. Go build a wall on the jumping point of the mountain, problem solved. 

 

Doesnt need to be deeded or protected.

Edited by akaedis

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Pfew, everybody's mad about this one!


 


I think there should be ample incentives on Freedom to build enclosures, locks, buildings, etc. But these mechanics also need to be fair. Fences should generally work at keeping stuff safe. The new collision system nerfs them pretty bad, and I, for one, don't want to see Freedom functioning like Rust where everyone has to build giant palisade walls to keep out the baddies.


 


I can appreciate how the new collision system was needed to get bridges out the door. I can also appreciate how this is all just 1's and 0's anyway, and perhaps there's a solution to be found.

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Disable "target non-citizens/citizens" for everyone you don't trust.  


 


To hell with them if they need the tower's help... "get hit or get lost".


 


What a way to mold the community there, CodeClub.


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Sure we can release bridges... but we have to break walls to do it.


 


Just how much support does anyone think that would that have gotten?


 


Hence... we're being informed of it after it's already been implemented.


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