Wossoo

Collision Clarification

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Yesterday, we included the following in our patch notes:

  • The new collision system may have made some old inaccessible areas accessible depending on how your deed is set up when it comes to walls and structures. You may consider restructuring your deed in order to prevent such access. Proper roofs still collide endlessly upwards which means these can be used to prevent access from above.

Since  then, a number of players have raised concerns about what this means in practice and how they can ensure their settlements are protected. Some also wonder whether this is the implementation of jumping (or flying) in all but name.

 

Firstly I will say that the collision system does not allow players to jump. Neither flying nor jumping have been implemented by this update. The issue is the new collision system allows players to fall over things they never could before from height.

 

This means that some types of defence are less effective than they used to be. For instance, if your outer deed or enclosure security is a single row of fences and there are places where people can climb up and then throw themselves from height, it is possible they could be able to enter your settlement using the power of gravity.

 

The best way to combat this in the first instance is to build a structure in the way. House roofs are an exception to the new collision system, and it is impossible to fall over, onto or through a roof. In other words, buildings with roofs cannot be accessed by falling onto them. Indeed, the other side of this is that buildings without roofs are now less secure so they will require a roof if they are next to cliffs or other elevated terrain features. Alternatively you could deny access to or destroy elevated areas from which people could fall into your settlement, enclosure or building.

 

Secondly, and this is extremely important on PvE servers, make sure deed settings prevent unwanted visitors from being able to take items, and ensure that everything important is safely locked. Would-be thieves cannot take anything from your deed unless your settings allow them to. Failing that your settlement guards should be a further layer of defence. If in the worst case scenario someone falls into your settlement and they are allowed to loot, locked gates should prevent them from being able to escape with ease.

 

On PvP servers, settlement guards will be important in eradicating intruders, especially if they are from enemy kingdoms. The ability to fall over walls might change the dynamic of raiding in certain ways, but it is far from an overpowered or risk-free method of attack. The methods of defence against people being able to fall into your deed should otherwise be identical to PvE servers. The safest method is to build roofs on your castle walls.

The final note I would add is please make sure you don't fall down into places you cannot get out of. It may put you in a very difficult situation that will require you either to contact the owner of the place you fall into, teleport out using karma or meditation abilities, use farwalker twigs or stones, or in a worst case scenario - use the suicide feature. If none of these work you should send in a /support ticket.

 

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I'm failing to understand why this wasn't picked up before the update was made live, and a post made to warn players that this may happen. Im curious how many people have had losses because of this "feature" (which i highly doubt it is because the dev team probably didn't realize it was a thing till it was reported on PvP servers).


 


The lack of professionalism really scares me and i have to ask if this will be a reoccurring thing with the wurm team?


Edited by Redd

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Seems like your just making more work for yourself. More tickets going in about people getting "stuck"


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@Redd This was picked up and publicly mentioned by Rolf around a year and a half ago, in this thread.

With hindsight we should probably have reminded everyone of this again prior to the update going live last week, but Rolf is pretty clear in that thread that the new collision system would involve being able to fall over things the top of fences and walls in new ways.

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Ye fail to note that people can simply jump in, load their pockets, and then karma out. Or use their meditation path skills to poof out.


 


And no, I'm not 'enabling' theft here. Anyone who would do such a thing, already knows that. But most casual players do not.


 


Even if your gates are locked tighter than a chastity belt, you could still have everything stolen right out from under your eyes if your settings aren't perfect.


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Given that we cannot have infinite length continuous longhouses, there are potential weaknesses introduced by the requirement of having gaps with walls in between.  Are we going to get a new wall type with a higher 'height' to help blockade these gaps?


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@Redd This was picked up and publicly mentioned by Rolf around a year and a half ago, in this thread.

With hindsight we should probably have reminded everyone of this again prior to the update going live last week, but Rolf is pretty clear in that thread that the new collision system would involve being able to fall over things the top of fences and walls in new ways.

I remember that thread. 22 pages of 'Hey Rolf, this is really FKING stupid!"

 

Which, of course, results in it being implemented anyway.

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I enjoy the fences being back to back with the mountain... or high slope tiles next to it... Then theres not this weird 1 tile gap between the two... This sucks =\


 


Aamanus makes a good point.  A taller fence would be a nice.


Edited by Adynna

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if not higher wall a way to build wooden beams to go on top of the tall wall gaps, like a canopy or something.


Edited by EvaDaly

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Explain the griefing rules if you would Wasso.


 


Currently, people are allowed to teraform another person's perimiter.  If they build a dirt tower, to run off and enter my deed, then loot it, because I previously thought my deed was locked and secure, based on previous mechanics and rules, then is it griefing to do what they did?  am I allowed to destroy the work they are doing to make their dirt tower?


 


We need some new rules on how to deal with this.


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Agreed Wurmhole. When I first started I fell into a cave that had no fencing around it but had a shack or fence of some kind in front of it. The GM that helped me out deemed it a trap... It seems that anyone who has a back to back fence with mountain is now considered a trap?


 


It was on deli and going down a road that was a main slope. I wasn't paying much attention and fell in at the last second. I was brand new and didn't understand what was going on....


Edited by Adynna

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From my understanding and time on the test server testing bridges , I found you can't build in a perimeter you get a message , and the idea of being able to fall I think is a good thing  " beware the drop'wurmians " 


 


Im unclear as to how bridges are a bad thing , if your deeds settings are correct then your things are secure ( no ? ) and no one can build a bridge near you if you do not want it ( can not build in perim ) 


Edited by Tarator

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all current wall types and hedges are no longer considered secure, on or off deed.  I agree, we need a new "magical" infinity wall to resecure our deeds.


 


I bet I could build a 10 story tower, outside any normal 5 tile perim, put altar on top, pray a bit, get a speed boost and go flying over deed walls.  Maybe we need to allow buildings to share a border now, so we can make joined long houses with roofs to completely surround our deeds?  Big waste of usable deeded tiles though and pretty unfair to people that planned their deeds already.


 


I'm convinced, we are better off without bridges - go back to the drawing board and do bridges right, without breaking everything else.


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Can we get a flat roof added into the game that looks just like the flooring and maybe a flat roof opening that you can lock? 


 


Edit: Well i guess that might be a little extreme i don't think it will matter much just make sure that all the permission exploits are fixed if there are any remaining.  


Edited by Kegan

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No longer can 'you must ensure each edge of the mine is correctly walled off so you don't trap people in' - if the mine is on top of a hill, you have the potential to fall into it anyway.

Can the devs advise how this benefits the game play or is this just required for bridges to function properly. I mean if a house roof can protect against this functionality then surely walls can too?

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" Failing that your settlement guards should be a further layer of defence." ...Sorry, what?


 


I should pay for a templar that only attacks people I place on my KoS list, lights some lamps off deed and kills mobs.


Let me just go with this suggestion... Oh wait, I can't, because I have a deed over a highway (which btw, is higher than the main part of my deed) so I can't KoS people, and I'm pretty sure a templar won't attack everyone who enters my deed (be stupid if it did, right?)


 


How many times have new features been added into wurm and caused issues with deed permissions allowing things to be done on deed that wasn't previously possible because a bug changed a setting?


 


This 'feature' is just, in the most polite way I can put it. Idiotic. 


Sure, it'll allow the future addition of flying/jump, I'm assuming shooting over walls/fences and a whole bunch of other interesting things. But it hasn't been thought through well enough to work in a way that isn't going to deter new players, and encourage griefing.


 


I pay for my deed tiles so that I have a secure plot of land to do whatever I want with it, not so I am basically forced into building a PvP like fort to keep people out. Horribly implemented 'feature'


Edited by Shadz

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I have 5 deeds on Independence.  None of these deeds are affected by this at all.  


 


I don't have fences against steep slopes right on the deed border tile.  I don't have any buildings with flooring as a roof against any steep slopes or on a border tile.


 


When I planned my deed, I left one flat tile of deed all around and then built my fences inside that.  It had nothing to do with this change, I just liked the fact that I had a tile of protection around my pens.  Most of my deed is open.  You can come and go as you please but you cannot take anything.  You can't 'fall' into my pens because I have no steep slopes with a fence against them and you can't build one because I have a deed tile between what you can do and my fence.


 


Remember, you can't walk around and just jump over things and I bet if you look around your deed, you'll probably find that you don't have a place where anyone can drop in.


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He made a thread about flying feedback too, is he working now on flying??

Edited by rixk

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I don't want to lose any features because we are all in an uproar over this. If we had the really tall fencing back then i am guessing we could not build bridges around/over them like we can now so think about that some.  


 


Lets just secure things better and not get a nerf on the bridges in the first few weeks.


Edited by Kegan

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I have 5 deeds on Independence.  None of these deeds are affected by this at all.  

 

I don't have fences against steep slopes right on the deed border tile.  I don't have any buildings with flooring as a roof against any steep slopes or on a border tile.

 

When I planned my deed, I left one flat tile of deed all around and then built my fences inside that.  It had nothing to do with this change, I just liked the fact that I had a tile of protection around my pens.  Most of my deed is open.  You can come and go as you please but you cannot take anything.  You can't 'fall' into my pens because I have no steep slopes with a fence against them and you can't build one because I have a deed tile between what you can do and my fence.

 

Remember, you can't walk around and just jump over things and I bet if you look around your deed, you'll probably find that you don't have a place where anyone can drop in.

Problem is Alectrys, you can go *over* 7 tiles by falling, 1 tile of defence isn't enough to actually prevent people getting into your deed :/

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I hear excuses for lack of foresight. Rolf in the post you cited used many  'could'  and 'should' 's and prefixed those variables with 'if' 's.


 


According to these after-the-fact clarifications you forgot to mention why the new griffins and pegasus are not spawning... nor how by default the archery towers are to be attacking non-citizens. How about sneaking out the needed body control or taming to mount the new flying creatures? Other members have also brought  solid concerns about possible situations whereby someone not intended to be on deed happen to find themselves on deed. Our current rules about greifing do not cover this new possible feature.


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I have 5 deeds on Independence.  None of these deeds are affected by this at all.  

 

I don't have fences against steep slopes right on the deed border tile.  I don't have any buildings with flooring as a roof against any steep slopes or on a border tile.

 

When I planned my deed, I left one flat tile of deed all around and then built my fences inside that.  It had nothing to do with this change, I just liked the fact that I had a tile of protection around my pens.  Most of my deed is open.  You can come and go as you please but you cannot take anything.  You can't 'fall' into my pens because I have no steep slopes with a fence against them and you can't build one because I have a deed tile between what you can do and my fence.

 

Remember, you can't walk around and just jump over things and I bet if you look around your deed, you'll probably find that you don't have a place where anyone can drop in.

and you are fortunate.  But I have traveled a lot and seen many deeds, bumped right up to a steep mountain.  I have a friend just like that and one of my own deeds is potentially at risk.  It is nice that you have the luxury of using the outer tiles of your deed for a perim, but not everyone else does.

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Problem is Alectrys, you can go *over* 7 tiles by falling, 1 tile of defence isn't enough to actually prevent people getting into your deed :/

 

Thanks for that clarification, it helps others look at redesign if they feel they need to.  You certainly can drop into my deed if you'd like.  I'm not sure what that would accomplish since you can't really do anything once there.  

 

Discussion on how to protect your stuff, how to design for maximum protection and help with ideas and knowledge from others is always positive.

 

Most of the stuff I learn is from listing to others and testing it out.  Screaming and yelling only gives me a sore throat and high blood pressure. 

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Thanks for that clarification, it helps others look at redesign if they feel they need to.  You certainly can drop into my deed if you'd like.  I'm not sure what that would accomplish since you can't really do anything once there.  

 

Discussion on how to protect your stuff, how to design for maximum protection and help with ideas and knowledge from others is always positive.

 

Most of the stuff I learn is from listing to others and testing it out.  Screaming and yelling only gives me a sore throat and high blood pressure. 

Don't get me wrong, I like that it's now a possibility to add flying and many other features. But I think being able to get into someones deed is wrong.

If for example, one of your pens had hell horses, I can drop in there, have them aggro me, kill 'em, and then karma out. That isn't right. Imo

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I have 5 deeds on Independence.  None of these deeds are affected by this at all.  

 

I don't have fences against steep slopes right on the deed border tile.  I don't have any buildings with flooring as a roof against any steep slopes or on a border tile.

 

When I planned my deed, I left one flat tile of deed all around and then built my fences inside that.  It had nothing to do with this change, I just liked the fact that I had a tile of protection around my pens.  Most of my deed is open.  You can come and go as you please but you cannot take anything.  You can't 'fall' into my pens because I have no steep slopes with a fence against them and you can't build one because I have a deed tile between what you can do and my fence.

 

Remember, you can't walk around and just jump over things and I bet if you look around your deed, you'll probably find that you don't have a place where anyone can drop in.

 

 

Sound pretty confident. Let's put it to the test then. Name your deeds and lets see what people 'could' do in your perimeter, and then in your deed?

 

Or... tear down your fences and rebuild then, with a 5 tile defense. sounds stupid, but that is essentially what the rest of us 'concerned' owners were just told.

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