Bridging the Gap: LOCK PLEASE

[Jovan 20]

As a long time member of the Maple Island deed community, I have to say I don't support this bridge. However I don't own any of the deeds near the planned bridge sites. But I am good friends with those who do own them, and I will stand by their decision what ever it is. If they don't want a bridge, then I will join any effort to prevent it. We like our quiet island as it is. 

[Slickshot 1,195]

Believe me when I say I've been doing my homework and surveying carefully of the ideas I put forward. I spent a few hours with the help of a local yesterday charting the specific course for the central bridge. I asked in local about the deeds close to where the bridge lands on the island, in an attempt to find the deed owners. Then I asked in server chat. Then I attempted to pm both people in-game and then I attempted to message them both on the forum. Only one of them appear to have a forum account, while the other may have an account under a different name. So yes I tried in more ways than one yesterday to get a hold of them and did state that I would continue trying.

As for perimeter; I'm well aware that a bridge cannot be built within the perimeter of a deed without permission. Thus is the reason why the mainland connection was approved by a deed holder who was enthusiastic about the project. The island landing is literally between 2 deeds in the space where their perimeters subside and leave a gap.

The Eastern Inde connection was definitely an idea that is intended to be fully incorporated if the central bridge is completed. The Eastern bridge may be much more difficult to get permission for, and if the central bridge isn't possible than the Eastern bridge may be our only connection point, and the central mountain pass may need to be circumvented by cave passage to allow those from the central highway to travel to Maple Island and the Eastern lands of Inde.

All in all, I've spent several hours looking at the road maps and topographical maps for the area trying to find the best routes possible. Even when I haven't been on the computer looking into the obstacles, I've still been thinking about it and milling it over in my head. Trust me when I say that I'm trying to setup a useful route overall here, and not just trying to dump a bridge wherever one can fit. I hope that answers a lot of questions or concerns.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Slickshot

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

Thanks, that answers everything I was curious about.

[Ulviirala 431]

For me, this somewhat went from "omg yes, let's build some awesome bridges, and I'll totally see how I can contribute to it, to a drama ridden "I don't think I want to get involved in this at all anymore. In this case, I totally sympathise with the deed owners (or local residents respectively). I think it's mostly because of the way that Slickshot has handled the criticism and resistance, and how he reacted to it.

It does feel like he wants to force it, while having part of the community behind him, and I think that will polarise the community even further. Bringing forth the argument that it was up for vote on the forums, whereas I'm sure that many players either only lurk or are not on the forums at all. And who are they, not being local residents, to decide what is being planned in this forum is the best for everyone?

At this point I almost feel that it would be best, if you'd let it go, because I'm not sure if your benevolent intentions (which I'd rather assume they are) can yet be brought to fruition.

It's just a thought, but maybe if you had instead talked to locals first and offering them to try rally people all across Independence, to help them realise their plans, or make possible bridges they never thought would be feasible with their manpower, this whole thing would have gone differently. As it is now, it'll only end in an "angryment" (as opposed to agreement) at best.

[Slickshot 1,195]

For me, this somewhat went from "omg yes, let's build some awesome bridges, and I'll totally see how I can contribute to it, to a drama ridden "I don't think I want to get involved in this at all anymore. In this case, I totally sympathise with the deed owners (or local residents respectively). I think it's mostly because of the way that Slickshot has handled the criticism and resistance, and how he reacted to it.

It does feel like he wants to force it, while having part of the community behind him, and I think that will polarise the community even further. Bringing forth the argument that it was up for vote on the forums, whereas I'm sure that many players either only lurk or are not on the forums at all. And who are they, not being local residents, to decide what is being planned in this forum is the best for everyone?

At this point I almost feel that it would be best, if you'd let it go, because I'm not sure if your benevolent intentions (which I'd rather assume they are) can yet be brought to fruition.

It's just a thought, but maybe if you had instead talked to locals first and offering them to try rally people all across Independence, to help them realise their plans, or make possible bridges they never thought would be feasible with their manpower, this whole thing would have gone differently. As it is now, it'll only end in an "angryment" (as opposed to agreement) at best.

Thank you for your candor.  The fact is, I've received positive support for building this bridge from the locals.  I have yet to receive negative support from the locals.  So please tell me, why are you bashing me in this thread and trying to make me into the bad guy again?  The way I see it, you're bored and out to start more drama after I already asked for the drama to be put aside.  You have continued the crap-fest fighting spree long after I had explained the process and intentions of this project, which I might add was welcomed by Brash and appreciated for its truth and clarity.  As of now, you're venturing beyond the point of having an opinion, and into the realm of actually trying to troll this project and kill it.  It will be reported as such, since I've asked several times to cease the ######, and a couple of people did a good job of following up on the project with honest questions and concerns, which I have addressed.  You, however, have no concerns to be addressed, and are merely here to cause trouble.  Please leave, and don't come back if that's the kind of attitude you wish to portray in this conversation.  Remember, a conversation is 2-sided.  I've openly asked for opinions and have openly answered questions.  You have done neither of these things, and are merely running your mouth.

 

I'd appreciate if we could get moderation here to clear up the posts that are merely trash talking and finger pointing.  I'd like this thread to remain true to its purpose of creating this community project if everything checks out and goes smoothly.  So far it has gone smoothly, with the exception of those few trying to derail and cause trouble.  I haven't received any complaints or trouble from the locals effected by this bridge project as to date, so I see no reason for others who aren't involved to come here and try to start trouble for no reason.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Slickshot

[Hauler 69]

Don't know if I am considered "local" but I have my deed at the west side of the lake, a bit south of 3 Hollows and I'm all for a connection to the east side. But I'm ALL AGAINST those bridges if they dont have the approval of every inhabitant of Maple Island (they chose to live on an island and that has to be respected).

In my opinion the better connection between east and west coast could be made at Avvocano with a bridge, then a coastal road around the mountain (with the approval of the owners of Avvocano and Acme Harbor and what other deeds might be touched of course). This would even cost less than the estimated 300'000 dirts.

[Slickshot 1,195]

Don't know if I am considered "local" but I have my deed at the west side of the lake, a bit south of 3 Hollows and I'm all for a connection to the east side. But I'm ALL AGAINST those bridges if they dont have the approval of every inhabitant of Maple Island (they chose to live on an island and that has to be respected).

In my opinion the better connection between east and west coast could be made at Avvocano with a bridge, then a coastal road around the mountain (with the approval of the owners of Avvocano and Acme Harbor and what other deeds might be touched of course). This would even cost less than the estimated 300'000 dirts.

They also chose to add a boat bridge to that island, for the purpose of coming and going from the mainland to the island, by themselves and for others.  This makes the point of not having a bridge kind of moot.

[Ulviirala 431]

Thank you for your candor.  The fact is, I've received positive support for building this bridge from the locals.  I have yet to receive negative support from the locals.  So please tell me, why are you bashing me in this thread and trying to make me into the bad guy again?[...]

I'm merely expressing my opinion, and I've only came back to this because throughout the thread (up to the most recent posts), drama and conflict seem to be the most prominent. I don't feel like I've put you on a pyre for the mob to burn, instead I've mentioned your intentions positively, and my opinion how maybe the excess of drama could've been avoided and the criticism and resistance dealt with in another way. I'm sorry you're feeling otherwise.

[Slickshot 1,195]

I'm merely expressing my opinion, and I've only came back to this because throughout the thread (up to the most recent posts), drama and conflict seem to be the most prominent. I don't feel like I've put you on a pyre for the mob to burn, instead I've mentioned your intentions positively, and my opinion how maybe the excess of drama could've been avoided and the criticism and resistance dealt with in another way. I'm sorry you're feeling otherwise.

It all depends on how you word your opinions.  Brash is a good example.  He voiced his concerns, however he backed them up with questions, because honestly what is the point in having a concern if you can't question WHY it's a concern in the first place?  He asked simple questions that are important, and I answered them.  This format works well.  The format, however, of assuming that I'm forcing a bridge on the locals or that I haven't spoken to them (which you made both assumptions) does not work.  I've clearly shown the opposite approach.  The only things I've done by way of this project are scout the area, trace and mark the path for the bridge, and look for consent from the locals in the area of the project.  I've done the exact things that everyone continues to complain about and assume that I haven't done.  So please, for future reference to this conversation, don't make assumptions.  Ask questions, voice concerns, show constructive support.  It only takes one person to run amok with their assumptions to cause others to jump on the band-wagon without purpose.

[Drpox 73]

You haven't received negative support, you say???  You may have forgotten Black Dog Island when you attempted to force feed your demands on us. 

 

Like you said its all on how you word it.  "don't come here with that attitude", " I've asked several times to cease the ######"  Your quote. 

 

My opinion is that you should keep the same civil tongue you are asking others to keep.  Ohh and remember the conversation is 2 sided??  There was not two sides in the Black Dog Isle conversation, there was the imaginary tell about BDI people being hard to work with and yourself. 

 

I am not trolling, just refreshing your memory on things you seems to be forgetting to make yourself look better in the eyes of the community. 

Edited May 31, 2015 by Drpox

[Rasu 561]

As a long time member of the Maple Island deed community, I have to say I don't support this bridge. However I don't own any of the deeds near the planned bridge sites. But I am good friends with those who do own them, and I will stand by their decision what ever it is. If they don't want a bridge, then I will join any effort to prevent it. We like our quiet island as it is. 

 

^He owns 3 deeds on the island. Also the boat bridge was put in for our own reasons back in the day and don't mean that they now would like an actual bridge. The only locals that matter are those that live on the island without them you are just causing trouble for people who moved to the island to get away from people like you.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Rasu

[Slickshot 1,195]

^He owns 3 deeds on the island. Also the boat bridge was put in for our own reasons back in the day and don't mean that they now would like an actual bridge. The only locals that matter are those that live on the island without them you are just causing trouble for people who moved to the island to get away from people like you.

If they have any concerns with the bridge, they can message me and explain them.  You aren't involved in this, and you've only been causing drama since you've been in this thread, so please stay out of it.

[Andobi 56]

There have been so many objections to your approach, despite you feeling sure you are approaching this the right way.

 

At this point I almost feel that it would be best, if you'd let it go

 

Give it a rest for a bit, or focus on the local areas who are willing to work with you, but do it in a less public way or find another spokesperson for those projects.

[Slickshot 1,195]

There have been so many objections to your approach, despite you feeling sure you are approaching this the right way.

 

 

Give it a rest for a bit, or focus on the local areas who are willing to work with you, but do it in a less public way or find another spokesperson for those projects.

I'll say this again, for the last time.  The local areas affected by this bridge have been contacted.  As to date, two local deeds have supported this project and want to help on it.  The other two deeds in the local area haven't responded yet, so for now I have the support of the locals in the area until they speak otherwise.

[Slickshot 1,195]

Can moderation lock this thread?  The future of this project and other projects won't openly be discussed with the public until such projects are already underway, so as not to detract from the support of locals and those interested in helping out.  Updates will be given periodically on the progress of the projects.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Slickshot

[Kadore 926]

That would be considered trolling, so I'm thanking you ahead of time for putting that here in a public thread as proof of intent.

 

On the other hand, the coastal area to the West in the original image I posted is deeded, however the deed owner is fully cooperating with the project idea and is encouraged to help out.  His neighbors are also interested in helping the bridge project in that area.

Trolling or not, build by where I have deeds and you'll probably receive the same.

 

Aren't you the same fool who was going to build some raised road or some ###### around freedom market, as I recall it started as a good idea then delved into your wanting to make a mark on the society again, get a store manager job at 7 11 if fame and fortune is what you seek.

 

Or PICK one project, get is passed off by those involved, the community, finish it, THEN start another.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

I would like the thread kept open as it seems to be the main way for the community to have awareness of the "server" project and its intents. Also if they change the project  details (ie, drop one area and decide to pick another spot) I think it is better to have that in a public thread.  If it gets turned into a "closed door" discussion, then you've lost the ability to say it is with the server community's support. It turns into a small group and whatever they are doing. 

 

 

 

This thread has a roller coaster of ups and downs but its possible by leaving it open, we will learn better how to foresee the bumps. So far you have been very candid but if you take it behind closed doors, that pretty much abandons the candor. 

[Slickshot 1,195]

Trolling or not, build by where I have deeds and you'll probably receive the same.

 

Aren't you the same fool who was going to build some raised road or some ###### around freedom market, as I recall it started as a good idea then delved into your wanting to make a mark on the society again, get a store manager job at 7 11 if fame and fortune is what you seek.

 

Or PICK one project, get is passed off by those involved, the community, finish it, THEN start another.

No I never had such a project, so please take your "fool" accusations some where else.

 

 

I would like the thread kept open as it seems to be the main way for the community to have awareness of the "server" project and its intents. Also if they change the project  details (ie, drop one area and decide to pick another spot) I think it is better to have that in a public thread.  If it gets turned into a "closed door" discussion, then you've lost the ability to say it is with the server community's support. It turns into a small group and whatever they are doing. 

 

 

 

This thread has a roller coaster of ups and downs but its possible by leaving it open, we will learn better how to foresee the bumps. So far you have been very candid but if you take it behind closed doors, that pretty much abandons the candor. 

While entire community support is nice, it is also nearly impossible.  So many people argue against an idea, just because it is in their nature to start conflict with a popular idea.  That being said, it is unfortunate to keep projects more secretive, however that seems to be the best route to avoid the negative reactions from people who aren't at all involved in a project in the first place.

 

This thread has shown that anyone and everyone will weigh in on a decision, even if it isn't their decision to make.  This project was initially designed as a community effort, and in truth only needed the support of the local deed owners to go ahead and green light it.  So in the future, to steer clear of the drama from outsiders not-involved, any such project that I hold will be negotiated between myself and the deeds/locals effected by the project.  I will make a separate thread after this one is closed, for those who wish to lend support and labor to any upcoming project that is green lit.  The thread won't contain information as to where the project will be or what it entails in its entirety, it will just serve as a place for those interested to make themselves known so they can be added to said projects when the time comes.  When a project does come underway, some minute details will probably be added to bwg's community bridge thread for the public to keep up on the progress, but not to interfere in unless they wish to help.

 

Thank you all for your opinions, especially those of you who were civil and reasonable in your questions and concerns.

[Kadore 926]

No I never had such a project, so please take your "fool" accusations some where else.

 

 

While entire community support is nice, it is also nearly impossible.  So many people argue against an idea, just because it is in their nature to start conflict with a popular idea.  That being said, it is unfortunate to keep projects more secretive, however that seems to be the best route to avoid the negative reactions from people who aren't at all involved in a project in the first place.

 

This thread has shown that anyone and everyone will weigh in on a decision, even if it isn't their decision to make.  This project was initially designed as a community effort, and in truth only needed the support of the local deed owners to go ahead and green light it.  So in the future, to steer clear of the drama from outsiders not-involved, any such project that I hold will be negotiated between myself and the deeds/locals effected by the project.  I will make a separate thread after this one is closed, for those who wish to lend support and labor to any upcoming project that is green lit.  The thread won't contain information as to where the project will be or what it entails in its entirety, it will just serve as a place for those interested to make themselves known so they can be added to said projects when the time comes.  When a project does come underway, some minute details will probably be added to bwg's community bridge thread for the public to keep up on the progress, but not to interfere in unless they wish to help.

 

Thank you all for your opinions, especially those of you who were civil and reasonable in your questions and concerns.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/82130-lock-it-up/

[Celantra 51]

I have pretty much ignored this since you choose to move on from BDI, but I feel I have to say something. 

 

You have said on numerous occasions that you have support for this newest bridge but no negative comments from residents.  Well I count at least one in the thread and also comments from another associated with the deed owners of the island.  I cannot speak to the positive responses as they occurred in PM's.  If you are using this thread as a feedback center then you might get more response if you have those people post here with their endorsements so that they can be counted.  

 

You chose this forum to raise support for your projects, and if I understand correctly to get feedback.  While the feedback was good, you tout the 70% support you got in your poll, everything was fine.  But when the feedback is negative, you respond with lets close this thread down.  I understand better then most the struggles of pulling off a project of this type.  We built the BDI canal bridge, and are halfway completed with the pillars for the replacement of the boat bridge.  The road upgrades between the two bridges are about 80% complete.  This requires a great deal of time and materials, but most importantly it requires cooperation of all the deed holders and necessary parties, coordination, and scheduling of priorities.  Simply too much for single project leaders, it requires a community.  In a sense you either are either part of the community effort, or you have to join the community effort.  You cannot impose your effort on a community.  Wurm is a game that allows others to work in opposition too easily without consensus.   Your responses when you don't get consensus have been dismissive and derisive. 

 

I would ask that maybe instead of walking into a community and telling us what you are going to do.  You might try contacting people in the area and simply offer help. 

 

As always I wish you good luck in your endeavors, whatever they happen to be. 

 

ODYC 

Edited May 31, 2015 by Celantra

[Slickshot 1,195]

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/82130-lock-it-up/

That wasn't a raised highway, but thanks for trying to troll some more and derail the thread.  Moderation will lock this up shortly.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Slickshot

[Kadore 926]

That wasn't a raised highway, but thanks for trying to troll some more and derail the thread.  Moderation will lock this up shortly.

 Not trying to troll, sorry I didnt remember all the specifics off the top of my head until I searched for the old thread, it more a case of considering the source when all the drama starts and remembering from past times when the same person had visions of grandeur.