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Nappy

PVP from a PVE perspective - Are the players all bloodthirsty?

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These are interesting reads, thanks for doing them. I've always considered trying out things on the PvP side of the fence, but one of the main reasons I play Wurm is the extremely slow pace of skill progression so I've always found the curve over there to be a turn off.


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While the curve is beneficial starting out. It actually makes very high skills harder to achieve than the Freedom cluster.


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Wait what?

 

Please don't make generalisations like this.

 

If you are refering to the recent spate of thefts and griefing on freedom, know that it has nothing to do with "PvP".

 

You are right, I should not make generalizations.  It is just an impression that is given from reading forums.  Which is what makes the OP a nice post to read.  More like this OP and less like what we often read here regarding PvP would be nice.

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While the curve is beneficial starting out. It actually makes very high skills harder to achieve than the Freedom cluster.

Can you explain this a bit? I admittedly know little about the curve other than it exists from the little bit of information I've heard and what is on the wiki. Its possible I just don't like it because I don't understand how it functions in action. My knee jerk reactions is one of why would I want something that makes skill gains easier when one of the core pillars of Wurm is slow skill progression? I'm one of those players that would rather slowly work up their own skills and produce their own things rather than buying from someone who has already put in the time.

 

Back to the question at hand, is this difficultly in advancement because you simply succeed more as you advance making it more difficult to do something of the appropriate difficulty to gain skill? That would make some sense, but it seems like it would flatten the top out a bit since you don't need to get as high to produce good QL things which makes me wonder if specialization is worth it after awhile or if it makes more sense to spread out after reaching a particular skill level.

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The Wurmpedia lists the curve formula. I used the formula in Excel to plot the attached graph.  The blue line shows standard skill level, the red line shows epic effective curve at same level.

 

0U5w7FP.png

 

Level Curve Effective
1       1.99
10     19
20     36
30     51
40     64
50     75
60     84
70     91
80     96
90     99
95     99.75
100  100

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The previous post was originally part of my next update btw. Interpret it as at 90 mining skill I can produce 99 ql outputs.


 


As far as the remainder of the article tune in next time for "Play to Grind or Grind to Play".


 


~Nappy


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The visualization helps. I still not sure I like it, but I'm also not sure its reason enough to keep me from trying out things on the other side of the fence some time, thanks.


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hey now buddy

 

my arrows fly straight

 

I figured they did, my comment was more directed at their speed rather then direction - grin.

 

~Nappy

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Nice post, Nappy, I enjoyed the read.

 

There's an explanation why you are so surprised by the player behaviour, and it's that Elevation is not Epic. It's a frequent misconception, Rolf has it as well, thinking that Epic and Elevation are the same, in fact they're not. Elevation is a server very suited for the more competitive PvP-ers, with partly set goals and party set battlefields like HotA. Elevation has structure to it, one could even make the point that it's probably the least sandboxy of all Wurm servers. From the get-go you're part of a kingdom and who's your friend and who's your foe is set in stone. That leaves little room for griefing and anti-social activities.

 

That's quite a different beast than what you see on the Epic home servers though.

 

Given some time I will eventually check out the Epic home servers (and Chaos) as well.

 

~Nappy

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A lot of what you have to remember is that people often don't formulate and create their own opinions about other players, kingdoms, and groups-- and or define others with guilty by association.  The truth is that hatred is taught in this game.  It's like when a child says a curse wear or racism slur, it's not developed naturally, it's picked up in their environment.  I have made many alts in many kingdoms, and been apart of many groups some of which probably to this day don't even realize who I was, and not because I wanted to spy, but because I enjoyed the experience of trying the perspective of an enemy.  If there's one thing every group has in common is that groups dignify hatred towards other players, and pass it on to new players.  Not every player, no, it never is.  Nor am I saying I'm not guilty of it.  I'm reminded of this time someone in local once said to me when I was on Hellfang, "you exploited ur fs and rank."  


 


Ironically this player was only roughly a month old into the game, and never even spoke to me before, or knew my history first hand.  Somewhere down the road this player converted to the same kingdom I was in, and a few months later we ended up working together.  I asked him about it, and he simply responded with it was what he was told.  That's kind of the sad truth about Wurm, it's a very aggressive community, and kingdoms have a habit of naturally influencing new players with their opinions.  Again, not everyone.  When you're new though and truly new the first person you meet, join up with, are always your idols and influences.  Mine were Wwiiol (Chumpeh), Caesar, Rozare, and The Horde.  I was taught Awesomefusion was an abuser (Well... okay he was, but no way to really know that), Xallo was a coward, Gavin was the almighty, etc.  Down the road I learned most of these things just weren't true.  


 


The saddest moments in Wurm is honestly when your uninformed opinion meets your first experiences with that person, and you realize nothing was true at all, and these people aren't so bad.  Many are just always going to dislike someone because they simply choose another kingdom, and that's all that matters to some.  


 


 


 


The best advice you can probably give a new person is to not participate in the forums, and to allow them to form their own opinions based on their experiences, and not preach them with negativity of others.  


Edited by Postes

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A lot of what you have to remember is that people often don't formulate and create their own opinions about other players, kingdoms, and groups-- and or define others with guilty by association.  The truth is that hatred is taught in this game.  It's like when a child says a curse wear or racism slur, it's not developed naturally, it's picked up in their environment.  I have made many alts in many kingdoms, and been apart of many groups some of which probably to this day don't even realize who I was, and not because I wanted to spy, but because I enjoyed the experience of trying the perspective of an enemy.  If there's one thing every group has in common is that groups dignify hatred towards other players, and pass it on to new players.  Not every player, no, it never is.  Nor am I saying I'm not guilty of it.  I'm reminded of this time someone in local once said to me when I was on Hellfang, "you exploited ur fs and rank."  

 

Ironically this player was only roughly a month old into the game, and never even spoke to me before, or knew my history first hand.  Somewhere down the road this player converted to the same kingdom I was in, and a few months later we ended up working together.  I asked him about it, and he simply responded with it was what he was told.  That's kind of the sad truth about Wurm, it's a very aggressive community, and kingdoms have a habit of naturally influencing new players with their opinions.  Again, not everyone.  When you're new though and truly new the first person you meet, join up with, are always your idols and influences.  Mine were Wwiiol (Chumpeh), Caesar, Rozare, and The Horde.  I was taught Awesomefusion was an abuser (Well... okay he was, but no way to really know that), Xallo was a coward, Gavin was the almighty, etc.  Down the road I learned most of these things just weren't true.  

 

The saddest moments in Wurm is honestly when your uninformed opinion meets your first experiences with that person, and you realize nothing was true at all, and these people aren't so bad.  Many are just always going to dislike someone because they simply choose another kingdom, and that's all that matters to some.  

 

 

 

The best advice you can probably give a new person is to not participate in the forums, and to allow them to form their own opinions based on their experiences, and not preach them with negativity of others.  

 

I have to say there is a lot of truth in this.   I was a lot more pigheaded (yea ever more so than I am now :D)    about my opion of many other players until I started to actually talk with them, and later when I had the pleasure of working with many people in both JK and BL when Lomaner was formed at the launch of Epic.   After that, I tended to not hold it against people, well most players anyways if things got competitive, since I knew many of them personally after that and tended to be more laid back about PvP and just general banter.  I found the game was a lot more enjoyable when I didn't have to always dislike everyone I was competing against, but just enjoy the competition for it's own sake.     

 

Most of that is because many of the grudges are passed to new players.   I used to really resent JK in general for digging up my roads and being a general pain in the butt at PRX, my first deed until I ran into one of their spy alts and just held a normal conversation with them, mostly out of boredom, and the fact at the time I was living as a hermit and any company was welcome :D.   It was that that later opened me to the idea of working with people outside my kingdom in situations outside Chaos/Wild where I could put aside the politics there.     

 

Challenge has also been a lot of fun, even if I quickly lost interest it was fun meeting new people and trying something outside my comfort zone.     

 

It's one of the things that is often depressing about some of my experiences with PvE players.  I see myself in them years ago, before I started to learn there was more to the game other than MR, or even Chaos for that matter.     Not everyone fits this mold, and many of the newer players are thankfully trying to come over here and meet the community rather than judge everyone from what they were told by their mates.    It's one of the reasons I do think the game could easily benift from a cluster chat where people could openly talk, recruit, or just chill together as one community rather than a bunch of isolated tribes.    It's great for competition to encourage rivalry, and that does have merits, but I like to have fun too and I don't want to take everything so seriously all the time.     

Edited by Battlepaw

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The Wurmpedia lists the curve formula. I used the formula in Excel to plot the attached graph.  The blue line shows standard skill level, the red line shows epic effective curve at same level.

 

0U5w7FP.png

 

Level Curve Effective

1       1.99

10     19

20     36

30     51

40     64

50     75

60     84

70     91

80     96

90     99

95     99.75

100  100

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I wouldn't say all papers... But as some people mentioned, most of the pvp population have played for a long time and there is hate amongst each other, so that bloodlust that you see is mainly from hatred vs actual politics. In fact I'm fairly sure wurm pvp today always has no politics involved, either that or players in other kingdoms looks past the politics and only look for their benefit.

Its nice to see your enjoying yourself. And keep on posting your experience and also questions like this. From a PVE perspective more players will benefit from your comments and questions, if they have the slight thought of checking out pvp, weather on epic or chaos.

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Many times it looks like the pvpers are really bad and stuff, from the way they conduct themselves on the forums, but its kind of a love hate relationship. Overall playing on a pvp server is the best way to get you to play as a team in this game. You would see much better teamwork on a pvp server than a pve server. And aren't MMOs supposed to be played with people? :)

Playing as a team to learn more about teamwork and have fun at the same time. This is what is offered to you on a PvP server.

Also, the sensation of killing is awesome.

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