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McGarnicle

Do not deal with Ant

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While we're on the subject of security, I'll just leave this here.


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hmmmm.... can anyone explain me why the horses with wagon could taken away? if i remember correct i have to activate "friends" in the wagon-managing window for let it happen! so, if it was on "friends" then it isnt any wonder that the gms didnt do anything....


 


the items ondeed.... hmmmm..... if you had the option on that everybody can pick up your items and take horses with gear then the gms dont do anything either....


 


so, please explain it to a silly girl like me....


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Whether or not it's in a game, whether or not it's against "the game rules", whether or not it's off-deed, whether or not it's locked up, if you go take something that is not yours and clearly belongs to someone else, morally... it's stealing. Doing so with full intent is just another level on top of that.

All that arguing about Wurm being a sandbox, or securing your stuff better, is just a pile of bullsh in my opinion.

 

I couldnt have phrased it any better

 

very interesting bit of video there too.

the problem i see for wurm is that there are too few mechnisms (locks if you will) around to protect yourself, that more often than not those "locks" don't work very well (if at all, due to them being bugged). and last not least and that is an issue with all ways to lock something, is that it's possible and often easy to circumvent "locks", be it virtual or physical (e.g.: lockpicks, hackers)

Edited by Galadhel

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Is time to ban bruha jet? what i says month ago sbout him!

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I just watched the Factional Fight video. 


 


They beleive they did not lock the wagon.  :(


 


With no lock, the permission system is inactive.  Anyone can walk up, mount the wagon, drive off deed, unload, tame, loot your items, butcher, and eat your animals.


 


Remember to lock your things.  You can also do more to protect your things: K.O.S.


 


PVE has a mechanic to limit some potential damage from known bad actors.  Simply Manage Reputations on your Settlement.  Then, list the name and the new reputation for the player you do not wish to see on your deed.  At -30 or below, the player in question will be physically attacked by the guards on your settlment.


 


If a short term KOS, keep permenant unchecked. If permanent, check Permanent.


 


Ensure you follow the rules for KOS, listed here :http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7-game-rules/#entry9


 


There are some limitations to KOS if you are on a road, or a gate would lock a player inside.


 


 


 


 


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I for one, would like to see his alts banned and blocked from being sold. Make the punishment be significantly more painful than the crime and maybe it sends the right message.

 

Ah yes. Banishment would last only as long as it took to make a new alt. There is truly no way to permanently banish an individual from an online game if they sincerely want to grief or steal again. This is a mental illness, an anti social psycho if you will. This person needs to be seen by a mental health professional. 

Edited by Sarcaticous

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Some apology he made, eh?

 

They are always sorry (they got caught). They will try harder next time (to not get caught).

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I just watched the Factional Fight video. 

 

They beleive they did not lock the wagon.  :(

 

With no lock, the permission system is inactive.  Anyone can walk up, mount the wagon, drive off deed, unload, tame, loot your items, butcher, and eat your animals.

 

Remember to lock your things.  You can also do more to protect your things: K.O.S.

 

PVE has a mechanic to limit some potential damage from known bad actors.  Simply Manage Reputations on your Settlement.  Then, list the name and the new reputation for the player you do not wish to see on your deed.  At -30 or below, the player in question will be physically attacked by the guards on your settlment.

 

If a short term KOS, keep permenant unchecked. If permanent, check Permanent.

 

Ensure you follow the rules for KOS, listed here :http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7-game-rules/#entry9

 

There are some limitations to KOS if you are on a road, or a gate would lock a player inside.

 

Deed it or lose it? If what is not on a deed is fair game, then what is on a deed is completely the opposite. If the road is deeded, the rest of the world lost it. They have ample time to cross a deed before the guards kick in. Just don't stop and you will be fine.

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If even very highly experienced players (Silent Hill, Gnomegates, Factional Fight)  are falling victim to permission exploits, how on earth are we going to expect newer players to keep up to date on every loophole and exploit?  One of the brothers believed the wagon lock was somehow removed, (we do know somehow ship locks can decay or be removed, without really understanding how) and in any case the wagon was never moved from its initial location, Someone unhitched the horses or killed them, on a deed that does not allow people to lead horses or kill/butcher them.    


 


I recently brought in some family members to start playing Wurm, but how can I teach them to play safely when the most prominent thefts are of veteran players who know as much or more about game security as me?  I am already highly paranoid and have no one on my friends list who is not family or known to me for years, and I will never join any alliance.  How does that NOT hurt the game, as a whole?  Seriously, why are people who do this over and over, allowed to give a fake apology and then continue?   We lose new players to things like this.  Even ignoring the impact on the people who were the victims of specific thefts, how much does this cost the community and the game as a whole?  It taints the entire reputation of Wurm Online as a "fun" game to play. It attracts even more "wolves vs sheep" type of exploiters who want to indulge in PvP versus other players, without the personal risk of playing on a PvP server.   And because they can sell their stolen property and exchange it for real life money, it becomes an attraction for people who want to become fulltime professionals at this. How much real life money has this individual made already off stolen items and why on earth should they stop if all they ever get is a wrist slap?


 


 


Head GM Enki recently posted this:


 You may hear us use the term "Toxic" players in the future.  This will be for those that simply cannot be salvaged from their own negative behavior and negative influence on the game and community.  These sort of cases will always be heavily vetted by the team, as we do not take any of these cases lightly and strive to do our best with the tools we have.


 


 


 


What we have here is a very toxic player poisoning the entire community and game.


 


Remove them.


 


 




 


PS:   Also, if you have EVER been a victim in the past of the people named as culprits in this thread, file a report to /support and get it documented, TODAY.    Do NOT believe people who tell you that "nothing will happen" or that you will be laughed at, that it was too long ago or it was your own fault somehow. They want you to stay silent to ensure nothing will happen.  Even if staff cannot solve your specific incident, it gives them a documented trail of "toxic behavior" by the individuals in question.   It will hep the rest of the community even if it does not help solve your case. 


Edited by Brash_Endeavors
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Freedom PvE servers do not cater to PvP play style. Yet PvP is exactly what happens when someone steals something. It is an offensive act towards another player executed in a way to cause another player harm in some way. That is PvP, not PvE. Why is it even possible for someone to take something that does not belong to them on deed or off deed? I would like to see one of the game developers explain why PvP actions are even possible on a PvE server. Much of this drama could be solved simply by coding the PvE servers so that taking something that you did not drop/make/exploit, be it goods or resources, impossible unless given explicit permission either through a friends list, a village list or an alliance list. And even then it should be possible for these lists to have permissions settings that can be edited on a case by case, individual or group basis. It's not that hard. The lists are there. Allow us to use them to our benefit in a logical manner so that the Freedom PvE servers cease being a playground for PvP style griefers. This should be the next project after bridges.


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So....

Someone (ant) took someone else's horses (without consent from the owner) because that person did not maintain diligent permission security.
No exploits were used to acquire the horses, nor was any property griefed.
Ant is now selling the horses on the forums.

Accusations are made that the staff are just as guilty as the 'thief' for not instantly taking action

GMs pointing out how ridiculous this accusation is.
Other members also point out how ridiculous such accusations are.
Thread breaks down into semantics, and cries for permabans for 'theft'

While perhaps a noble attempt to prevent ill-gotten gains from being capitalized on (Someone buying the horses from Ant), do these threads ever do more than just breaking down into accusations of staff incompetence and cries for bans for grey areas/ minor offences?
 

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i dint read the entire post (i may later) but my thought on the subject, many people and the dev want us to live in village, help each other etc but it's too easy for someone with bad intention to steal,  grief or do harm in general. there too many variable deed management, alliance, lock, permission, guest, etc one simple forgotten thing could led to disaster a small fortune lost.


 


maybe i say MAYBE the solution would be a system oriented toward person instead of object. like i allow this person to use my horse, take item in my chest etc 


 


i wicht this could help.


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So....

Someone (ant) took someone else's horses (without consent from the owner) because that person did not maintain diligent permission security.

No exploits were used to acquire the horses, nor was any property griefed.

Ant is now selling the horses on the forums.

Accusations are made that the staff are just as guilty as the 'thief' for not instantly taking action

GMs pointing out how ridiculous this accusation is.

Other members also point out how ridiculous such accusations are.

Thread breaks down into semantics, and cries for permabans for 'theft'

While perhaps a noble attempt to prevent ill-gotten gains from being capitalized on (Someone buying the horses from Ant), do these threads ever do more than just breaking down into accusations of staff incompetence and cries for bans for grey areas/ minor offences?

 

 

I've said this before I'll say it again.... 

 

Are the windows and doors in your house bulletproof, blastproof, and shatterproof?

 

Because if they aren't and someone robs you, and you call the cops after writing this, you're a major hypocrite.

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So....

Someone (ant) took someone else's horses (without consent from the owner) because that person did not maintain diligent permission security.

No exploits were used to acquire the horses, nor was any property griefed.

Ant is now selling the horses on the forums.

Accusations are made that the staff are just as guilty as the 'thief' for not instantly taking action

GMs pointing out how ridiculous this accusation is.

Other members also point out how ridiculous such accusations are.

Thread breaks down into semantics, and cries for permabans for 'theft'

While perhaps a noble attempt to prevent ill-gotten gains from being capitalized on (Someone buying the horses from Ant), do these threads ever do more than just breaking down into accusations of staff incompetence and cries for bans for grey areas/ minor offences?

 

 

The 'thief' did indeed take something not belonging to them. This makes them a thief, not a 'thief'. There are no grey areas. It's black and white. If it isn't yours and you take it without permission then it is stolen. Not borrowed. It's not that difficult. Really. It's a simple concept taught to most of us at a very early age. Evidently some do not have the mental ability to understand simple concepts. I can only shake my head in disbelief at that level of ignorance.

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somebody took my horse clothes in a videogame, better whip up a few paragraphs of terse farts


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somebody took my horse clothes in a videogame, better whip up a few paragraphs of terse farts

 

Go to your local bar and intrude in a conversation with that kind of asshattery, tell us how it went.

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Ah yes. Banishment would last only as long as it took to make a new alt. There is truly no way to permanently banish an individual from an online game if they sincerely want to grief or steal again. This is a mental illness, an anti social psycho if you will. This person needs to be seen by a mental health professional. 

but, when you banish an alt or multiple alts that they either paid for, or spent months building, then it hopefully hurts. punishment without pain is pointless.  I'm a little old school I guess.

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If this character named Ant proves to be an alt of Bruhamoff in the end.... Then it'd be strike number 3 for him. I highly doubt anything will be done then either. I think we've already debated the fact that alts would be used in the future. 


 


But let's just wait out the GM's investigation. If there is any m'kay?

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somebody took my horse clothes in a videogame, better whip up a few paragraphs of terse farts

 

Believe it or not these pixels have a value in real life money. You can sell these items with real life money; therefore, it's no different than someone stealing from your house in real life.

 

To some people (like you), it's a foreign concept, but it's the reality with the internet and pay-to-play mmos.

Edited by Lotus1
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somebody took my horse clothes in a videogame, better whip up a few paragraphs of terse farts

 

"pixels" is the go to excuse for people of your kind to be arseholes to other (real!) people.

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well i added him to my embargo list. It now contains 2 people: Ant and someone else (wont name and shame). He also has purchased stuff and not accepted stuff from me.


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but, when you banish an alt or multiple alts that they either paid for, or spent months building, then it hopefully hurts. punishment without pain is pointless.  I'm a little old school I guess.

Pain and fear, a wonderful learning tool, used far to seldom in today's sickeningly tolerant politically correct society!

+1 to "old school".

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I'm a new player, and the first thing i learned (through the wiki or the game messages while building stuff) was : put locks on everything that you care for and lock doors and gates for places where you want to keep strangers out of. Everything that happens because one of the above was not done is only your fault.


 


I guess if a player is choosing to play as a thief, it does it because the game allows him to.. so if you don't want things stolen from you, lock them up.


 


Edit: in the video Griphyth is not sure if the wagon was locked, so if it was locked and somehow it got unlocked and the horses stolen then that's a problem, otherwise it's just a game feature :).


Edited by faty

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