Do not deal with Ant

[Fattox 7]

I personally prefer less GM intervention. You have the tools needed in the game to set the permissions for things like this. If he was able to steal the items without exploiting a bug in that system, then fair play.

 

The most toxic thing i see here is how strongly some people are pushing for the guy to be BANNED for playing within the game mechanics. Get a grip, chaps. Try employing some vigilance with your ingame belongings, just like you would IRL.

 

I'll bet my left nut that half of the complainers in here have stolen something in Wurm more than once.

 

 

Believe it or not these pixels have a value in real life money. You can sell these items with real life money; therefore, it's no different than someone stealing from your house in real life.

 

To some people (like you), it's a foreign concept, but it's the reality with the internet and pay-to-play mmos.

 

 

It's peanuts compared to the losses you see in games like EVE Online. Comparing this to losing your house, well... now i've read it all.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Fattox

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

 "stealing from your house"

 

"Comparing this to losing your house, well... now i've read it all."

 

 

​You did not read very closely though did you. Having your house burglarized is not the same as having it foreclosed on you, no. But it is still an upsetting and tramautic experience.

 

These are the same people who recently stole 40 silver in knarrs during a dishonest trade deal only a few weeks earlier. Other people reported they had a history of using dishonesty, cheats and deceits to steal items then turn around and sell them on the forums. They were caught by GMs. They cried and said how SORRY they were and how they would NEVER do such a thing again. They REALLY learned their lesson and would work hard to be member of the community.  A few weeks later, they are back in business doing it all again, using a new alt that apparently was created the day their old player was caught and reprimanded by GMs.  There was a long discussion in that earlier incident, about giving people a real chance to change before resorting to bans.

 

 

 

Comparing this to what people lose in EVE is in fact a very interesting question -- do people want this game to be a game like EVE? Where people have $10000 in real life assets stolen after a scam a year in the planning?  EVE is a game that ATTRACTS people who get a kick out of stealing and traumatizing other people.  

 

No, you are right, this is not like EVE. Let's keep it so. Or at least keep the player versus player playstyle limited to the player versus player servers, where thieves take a real risk for their rewards,  instead of playing at wolves versus sheep.  

 

Play on Epic, Challenge or Chaos if you want to play Pirates vs Ninjas.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Brash_Endeavors

[rixk 830]

In EVE stealing can have real consequences.. when you steal from someone, this may be your death sentence.. in Wurm (Freedom) stealing has zero consequences for thief, even the blame is being put on the victim here. THAT is what is wrong.

Edited May 6, 2015 by rixk

[Clatius 455]

In EVE stealing can have real consequences.. when you steal from someone, this may be your death sentence.. in Wurm (Freedom) stealing has zero consequences for thief, even the blame is being put on the victim here. THAT is what is wrong.

 

This is really quite funny. I played EVE from beta phase 2 and still have a toon with 100million+ skills. I've seen tons of theft that makes anything in WURM look like stealing a penny piece of candy. Not to mention the back stabbing, treachery and any other low life form of dishonesty known to man. The consequences are minor. The profits on the other hand can be huge if the perp takes their time and consummates a well planned scheme. 

[rixk 830]

This is really quite funny. I played EVE from beta phase 2 and still have a toon with 100million+ skills. I've seen tons of theft that makes anything in WURM look like stealing a penny piece of candy. Not to mention the back stabbing, treachery and any other low life form of dishonesty known to man. The consequences are minor. The profits on the other hand can be huge if the perp takes their time and consummates a well planned scheme.

I told there "CAN" be consequences.. And you can even get away with everything.

[Csponge 167]

Lol you ban people on freedom for killing horses and taking gear off them? Um... Code a better game if you want to enforce those rules, this is rediculouse.

[Odynn 2,248]

trouble is a few amount of players can mess things up badly for everyone else, our current solutions are :

 

• do not invite villagers or give them little to no permission.
  
• do not add players to your friendlist, even if you are a merchant/businessman/whatever in case one of your items is open to 'friends'.
  
• lock everything and set your permission to no one.
  
• hope that no bugs/loopholes will happen and mess the above.
  

 

Bit silly, but the more we go into our wurmians life, the more the social aspect of the game (it's a MMo remember) is dissapearing due to fear and bad mechanism.

[Audrel 2,223]

In EVE stealing can have real consequences.. when you steal from someone, this may be your death sentence.. in Wurm (Freedom) stealing has zero consequences for thief, even the blame is being put on the victim here. THAT is what is wrong.

 

Not only for yourself but for your friends (Corporation). WarDecs work on the "Freedom" parts of EVE. If someone has you in a WarDec, you can be sitting in the Concord (Guards) parking lot and blown up and they won't even put down their donuts to look up. There are bounties (though I don't know of anyone who actually bounty hunted when we played EVE). There is also a standings system. You can glance at a name and see if they are a dirtbag by their security rating. We have none of that here. PvP tactics on PvE comes with about as much chance of retaliation or consequences as fishing in a goldfish bowl with dynamite. 

[GoldFever 299]

Me thinks game developers have misread the market by insisting that certain elements of pvp be present in what the players overall want to be a pve environment. 

 

To a certain degree, I can live with this.  If you leave an unlocked cart in the middle of nowhere, you have no right to expect the contents (or the cart) to be there a week later.  Abusing deed settings (or controls that should be in place but are not) to use/take items for purposes that were not intended is a totally different matter. 

 

The existing mechanism makes highly desirable social benefits much harder to achieve due to fear.  An unfortunate design choice in my view.  I have hope that an improved settings menu will improve the situation and I look forward to its implementation.  

[Ant 6]

Logging started 2015-05-05

[18:51:05] <Mjolnir> 

[18:51:38] <Mjolnir> heya, i understand you offered to return the horse gear to griphyth? do you want me to take care of that so nobody has to pay any mailing costs?

[18:53:33] <Ant> yes please

[18:55:51] <Mjolnir> which items is it?

[18:57:30] <Ant> just shoes

[18:57:37] <Ant> and saddles

[19:00:28] <Ant> the last shoe is in the mail. for the saddles i am not sure which were his but i pulled the best ones out

[19:00:44] <Mjolnir> thank you for returning his items even though you were under no obligation to do so

[19:01:01] <Ant> you're welcome

[19:01:06] <Ant> he is welcome

[19:02:45] <Mjolnir> out of curiousity, where is the cart?

[19:03:47] <Mjolnir> since i don't see it in here

[19:04:48] <Ant> what cart?

[19:05:03] <Ant> [19:04:18] You sense imps whispering your name and saying you have 1 mail waiting to be picked up.

[19:05:03] <Mjolnir> the cart you hijacked, i want to see if it's still lockless

[19:05:05] <Mjolnir> for purposes of the bug report

[19:05:18] <Ant> i didnt steal his cart

[19:05:36] <Mjolnir> ah, k

[19:05:51] <Ant> i have the last shoe

[19:06:18] <Mjolnir> ok, i'll be right there

[19:12:21] <Ant> thank you for helping

[19:12:43] <Mjolnir> no problem, thank you for being honest and for returning the items

 

Thank you to Griphyth for accepting my apology. I will never do this again as the GMs have asked that of me and I agreed to do so.

 

The only thing I have done is steal items out of carts. I have never had intention to grief anyone ( locking players chests/BSB's in their own homes ) or ( digging to rock all around someone's deed that I don't like ). There are worse players out there than me. I have never joined a deed to steal stuff to bypass permissions. I have never exploited in attempt at the items you own. I have only taken unlocked carts and taken items out of them.

 

There are two ways of doing this.This only works with Unlocked Carts *** On Deed! *** To prevent this you *** MUST *** lock your cart/wagon.

 

First way: If the cart has animals hitched, you can simply drive the cart away and take things out of the cart once you drive off deed. I always put the carts back where I found them, either with or without the animals depending on their value.

Another thing to take note is that if the animals are valuable and the cart has nothing inside, you can simply unhitch the animals and the animals are automatically bound to you ( same as if you ride a horse on deed without leading permissions, you can still lead it since it is "bound to you" ).

 

Second way: If the cart has no animals hitched, you can lead an animal that is offdeed onto the deed and hitch them to the cart. This allows you to command the cart and drive it off deed which allows you to take all items inside. ( It is possible to load your cart and sail it off the freedom islands and onto chaos, thus switching the owner of the cart )

[Kegan 3,926]

I am glad that they got their stuff back and that the GMs are doing the right thing when stuff like this happen.  

Edited May 7, 2015 by Kegan

[Corwen 164]

The only thing I have done is steal items out of carts. I have never had intention to grief anyone

ANT,, Please explain to me how taking an unlocked cart off a deed and stealing 90woa horse shoes is NOT intending to grief anyone??!

[Aeszhara 29]

* Is completly baffled.......*

 

H-how?! ... How is THIS not..... *facepalms* Right... Can anyone tell me why i still play ? <.<

[The Moidart 36]

 

 

 

First way: If the cart has animals hitched, you can simply drive the cart away and take things out of the cart once you drive off deed. I always put the carts back where I found them, either with or without the animals depending on their value.

 

 

 

 

 

A thief with morals.

[williamwierd 390]

Thank you to Griphyth for accepting my apology. I will never do this again as the GMs have asked that of me and I agreed to do so

 

 

Another apology. Lovely.

 

Make sure the next one is just as lovely

Edited May 7, 2015 by williamwierd

[Shiraek 464]

First way: If the cart has animals hitched, you can simply drive the cart away and take things out of the cart once you drive off deed. I always put the carts back where I found them, either with or without the animals depending on their value. << Exploit.

Another thing to take note is that if the animals are valuable and the cart has nothing inside, you can simply unhitch the animals and the animals are automatically bound to you ( same as if you ride a horse on deed without leading permissions, you can still lead it since it is "bound to you" ).    << Exploit.

 

Second way: If the cart has no animals hitched, you can lead an animal that is offdeed onto the deed and hitch them to the cart. This allows you to command the cart and drive it off deed which allows you to take all items inside << Exploit.

 

 

How are those three things not all considered exploits? It would be good to fix them, or at the very least declare them exploits so the next person exploiting them can be banned (?)

1. The first is an exploit because if there weren't animals hitched you couldn't take anything out of the cart or move it so why would animals being hitched to it alter the permissions
2. The second is an exploit because you shouldn't be able to unhitch someone else's animals from their cart on their deed
3. The third is an exploit because you shouldn't be able to HITCH someone else's animals TO their cart on their deed

If we didn't know about these (I sure didn't, and I've been playing for years) and suddenly they're being used to steal stuff on PVE servers, can't we ban people doing that for what is pretty obviously exploiting bugs in the code?

 

Why is there still not a "no stealing" rule? Sure you can't enforce it all the time but sometimes you could and that might act as a deterrent and/or let you ban people you catch and reduce a lot of the drama. If it's on deed and not yours and you take it, you stole <BAN>, next!

Edited May 7, 2015 by Shiraek

[NeoRuger 65]

So, does this mean you intend to return the money you made from selling rare horse gear from a horse you STOLE right out of a LOCKED house using an exploit? You took my 5 speed horse Yazmeenrun, and auctioned the gear for 40 silver. Either make amends for ALL your thefts or don't try to play the hero.

[Aeszhara 29]

He won't Neoruger,

 

Apparently this guy has been conducting a nice little buisness gaining money with these " exploits (?) ". Just because he was caught this time he'll attone for this single theft. He's got no reason to repent for his past crimes. 

 

What i'm more curious off is that WHO this player is exactly. Is or is he not an alt of Bruhamoff?

 

Back when Bruhamoff first started raising suspicion when he was in our alliance a similair thing happend. This was around... 10 - 17 January 2015 if i remember correctly. All the horses on one of our wagons had vanished. On a deed that had all permissions locked down as tight as could be. Now that this has been cleared up it actually gives me a good idea of how it could have been possible. I can't link what happend back then to Bruhamoff and i won't. I'm merely saying that it happend back then as well.

 

I doubt anyone will blame me for being suspicious / highly curious on this part.

[Cally 96]

I'm horrified at the sheer lack of ethics implied by that "Here's how I've been doing this all along" message. "I'm not as bad as some people!" -- sure, you're not digging death traps on someone's perimeter, and you're not pretending to be a noob to join merchant villages, but jesus, you're still going around deliberately stealing from people. 

 

Using what are pretty clearly exploits. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by Cally

[Killroth 352]

.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Killroth

[Huntar 1,692]

Thank you to Griphyth for accepting my apology. I will never do this again as the GMs have asked that of me and I agreed to do so.

 

lol

 

What he's saying is that next time he'll make it less obvious so he can get away with it easier

[Sirdirty 6]

So the man admits to stealing peoples stuff. Sounds like an open and shut case to me.

[Mordraug 2,542]

And that's why I KoS despite the highway on my deed now.

 

Worst that can happen I fake an apology and business as usual.

 

If not, I'll loot the corpse when it decays THEN fake an apology, that'll pretty much ensure me business as usual apparently.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

Stuff

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V1YmiT8qKg

 

[Huntar 1,692]

And that's why I KoS despite the highway on my deed now.

 

Worst that can happen I fake an apology and business as usual.

 

If not, I'll loot the corpse when it decays THEN fake an apology, that'll pretty much ensure me business as usual apparently.

 

what