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SotG_is_OP

Tosiek, Free to Play, Alt Abuse, Player Feedback and Development

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So there's an obvious problem here. First is the free to play alt problem (more accurately, just the "alt problem"). This stems from a refusal to police alts because all accounts with premium are mains. Let me just take the liberty of saying that if I were a GM, my intelligence would be insulted enough for me to resign from the team because it is a very simple concept to understand. Determining what is and is not an alt is entirely subjective, but it is very simple and easy.


 


Next is player feedback. At this point, the players have been accurately predicting problems before they occur. We give feedback, it is ignored, and the game breaks further. In this case, we have repeatedly said that there is literally not a single way that a free to play account can constructively participate on an active PvP server such as Elevation or Chaos. Actual newbies have zero opportunity on a PvP server. They will be labelled as spies (see above problem and fix), and they don't have the skills to participate. They don't know how to PvP, and they can't ride horses or command boats (a PvP requirement) because they lack the necessary stats. Free to play accounts can only be abused for PvP and free storage of items on PvP servers.


 


This is a common theme in the development of this game. We give feedback after predicting that something will happen, it is ignored, and whatever it is that we predicted almost always happens. 


 


As soon as it was announced that Tosiek's religion would be given to the kingdom with the most followers, the players immediately (even if it wasn't reported or posted) thought of alts. Go figure. Guess how Jenn-Kellon (full disclosure: I'm in Jenn-Kellon) made sure they got Tosiek's following? Golden star for anyone who answered "alts". Then it was discovered (guess how - alts) that his religion would switch to the kingdom with the most followers. The result looks like this:


 


https://twitter.com/epicserv1


 


This is what alts (premium or not) do to this game. It's a serious issue. It's likely the single biggest issue (aside from the development process itself) faced by PvP. Don't worry PvE, you're involved too. I didn't forget you. I didn't forget Silent Hill. I didn't forget. We didn't forget.


 


I'd like the development team to stop and think. Do you want this to be a great game? Do you want it to reach its potential? Do you want the great concept behind Wurm Online to shine? Or do you want it to be spoiled by the bad mechanics, poor attitudes, and blatant abuse of weaknesses in the system? Do you want this game to die a slow and painful death in a shallow grave? The latter is what I see happening right now. 


 


I complain because I care. When you put the amount of time that I have into this massive time sink grind fest, it becomes part of your live. When you spend one... two... three or more hundred days online, it's not just a game anymore. It becomes part of your life. Anything would be given that much time. I don't want to see this game die or go continue this downward spiral. I want to see it be great.


 


For this specific issue, I think the developers can take a lot out of it for the future. I also think that they need to address this issue (and those in the future) directly, not through workarounds, band-aid patches, and the usual quick fixes. I'd like to see the GMs start policing alts. We all know that they are smart enough to do so. I'd also like to see the developers and Rolf himself start listening and directly interacting with the community on a regular basis. I'd like to see better patch notes, better communication, better relations, and two-way constructive discussions. I'd like players and staff to be able to treat each other as human beings, as neighbors and friends, not as customer and service provider as it is now - not this us versus them conflict.


 


Are you with me?


 


Are you with us?


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I don't know why this post is written like a dramatic speech from the movie Gladiator, but I do agree.

Alts be dumb yo

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The "alt" issue isn't going to be easily tackled, because they've built this game up making players require them (which fetches more income for the game).

I.E.
* Priests and their restrictions in gameplay, including the need for multiple priests (batteries) to cast specific spells.
* One settlement per map, per player.
* 5 bank slots.

I could go on listing a page full of minor game restrictions, mechanics and inconveniences... all of which would push a player to sub an alt.

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Seems kind of messed up that you complain about free alts and then use one to post with :)

I actually agree with the fact that free alts should be removed from PVP servers, I'll also agree that many people want to keep them

Edited by solmark
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As soon as it was announced that Tosiek's religion would be given to the kingdom with the most followers, the players immediately (even if it wasn't reported or posted) thought of alts. Go figure. Guess how Jenn-Kellon (full disclosure: I'm in Jenn-Kellon) made sure they got Tosiek's following? Golden star for anyone who answered "alts". Then it was discovered (guess how - alts) that his religion would switch to the kingdom with the most followers. The result looks like this:

 

https://twitter.com/epicserv1

 

This is what alts (premium or not) do to this game. It's a serious issue. It's likely the single biggest issue (aside from the development process itself) faced by PvP. Don't worry PvE, you're involved too. I didn't forget you. I didn't forget Silent Hill. I didn't forget. We didn't forget.

Fun fact: The Roman Republic got a single tosiek alt and it was (and still is) premmed since the day tosiek became a religion.

Edited by Zekezor

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We have a lot of this rhetoric on the forums where someone complains about a small facet of a very large and complex game.


 


Then the claim is made that the developers don't care about the game and don't respond to feedback.


 


And if that's not enough, the game is dying.


 


 


Thank Fo someone has brought all of this to our attention, otherwise we would never know.


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That is a rather incredible accusation you are making there.


 


Also you lack any proof whatsoever, a perfect example of false accusations.


Edited by FranktheTank
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Yeah F2P on elevation wasn't needed before, isn't needed now, nothing's changed since then but Rolf's magic eight ball...


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This is dumb, f2p elevation isn't proving to be a horrible thing either. The thing with tosiek isn't an alt problem either, its a horrible feature problem. Really tosiek just needs to be the same kingdom as the player tosiek, and it should only ever switch, if the player decides to switch, end of.


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I am not trying to fuel any battles or start flames... but while I guess I can see some arguement about the problem with alts in PvP, ( I know nothing about PvP), what exactly are the GMs supposed to 'police' about alts on Freedom?

I have many alts, most of the are paid... I like having them to help with repetative tasks... where is the problem?

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This is dumb, f2p elevation isn't proving to be a horrible thing either. The thing with tosiek isn't an alt problem either, its a horrible feature problem. Really tosiek just needs to be the same kingdom as the player tosiek, and it should only ever switch, if the player decides to switch, end of.

This..

I mean what is the point of working towards ascension / unlocking this for your kingdom?

It should be MR/MR template only.

Edited by Gregory
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Few useful problems brought up to make ridiculous requests. 
+1 to Tosiek religion being built on top of horrible mechanics
+1 to taking storage alts (f2p) back off of elevation/chaos

-1 to overly dramatic cry for action
-1 to calling for f2ps to be policed
-1 to 'I complain because I care'. This hurts me more than it hurts you, anyone?

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Nintendojoe, while your post has a fair bit of melodrama, there are a few points worth addressing.


 


It is true right now that non premium accounts contribute towards Tosiek's overall faith count for each kingdom but that was an unintentional oversight and will be fixed very soon.


 


You may want the GM to rule against free to play alts or institute some form of "alt abuse" ruling but we had a similar thing in the past during the early days of the Wild (now Chaos) Server. It is a lot harder than you think to enforce this kind of rule and involves a lot of collateral damage along the way which causes a great deal of problems.


 


It is also not true that feedback is ignored. We take all feedback for its merits. Just because not every single piece of feedback is followed to the letter, partly because that is impossible due to conflicting feedback, everything is taken into account. In cases where feedback makes a great deal of sense and a lot of players feel the same way, we are more than prepared to act on it. You just need to take the way we changed the new Elevation map in response to feedback as recent evidence of this.


 


I resent the suggestion that the developers have to sit down and ask whether they want Wurm to reach its potential. Of course they do.

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I'm not an epic player but tbh that god kingdom-switching mechanic sounds like bad game design. It has to be more involved than "have more (prem or not) followers than the other side", otherwise it'll keep flipfloping like that forever.


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I was going to give this topic a fair listen to til I heard that someone was using an alt to complain about alts.


 


  "Castile takes a screwdriver and jams it in his ear."


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I love the new f2p alts. I never have to build storage and worry about decay again. Swordbank, Axebank, Toolbelts, etc. are my new favorite characters to play. I'd like to complain about having to work on Bardings body strength a bit.


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I was going to give this topic a fair listen to til I heard that someone was using an alt to complain about alts.

 

  "Castile takes a screwdriver and jams it in his ear."

 

But SOTG_is_OP really IS his main forum account now, not an alt lol

 

I think his main forum account got banned or something idk

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I think the new God's realm should be decided by premium accounts and the total amount of prayer from those accounts.  Just like prayers help RoS come earlier and can be tracked.


Edited by Uberknot

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