Posted April 20, 2015 It really should just come down to what's best for the game. Polls like these will never work with the majority voting for what's best for themselves. 'You hit Nail deadly hard on the head and damage it with logic.' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) And here begins a thread that's gonna trail on for ages with MR -1'ing it hard due to cynicism. Seriously though why do MR have to try wall everything in/block everything off? It's like they don't want to fight in the open for some reason.. Ummm the entire HOTA is open. I do quite remember JK winning the hota regularly for almost a year or so, until Kratos was established. The final nail in the coffin was thrust in when JK snubbed FF, and they gave us a nice little base next to Hunter's Lodge, just outside the HOTA. After that things just kinda went downhill for you guys, as you left us over a year to get setup and established around the HOTA area. The biggest barrier to MR orignally, and I do remember the debate on the HOTA location, was that ridge of mountain between HOM and the HOTA area, the same debate that came up over the WL years before. That really isn't an issue anymore, since MR is now logistically located in the East of the map and just has to sail into the HOTA rather than traverse an entire continent, and we also have roads and tunnels through that dang mountain. This was all overcome through player intervention, and didn't require the HOTA to get moved then, and it does not need to get moved now. Extending the HOTA outwards is just a convenient way for you to get a victory since you are too lazy to break those deeds or even try to. Edited April 20, 2015 by Battlepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 20, 2015 And here begins a thread that's gonna trail on for ages with MR -1'ing it hard due to cynicism. Seriously though why do MR have to try wall everything in/block everything off? It's like they don't want to fight in the open for some reason.. Pretty sure all the pvp that has happened lately between MR and JK has happened on JK deeds. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) -1, if you want a no-buildzone around HOTA at this point in the game then the only practical solution is to shrink the current HOTA to make room for the fancy pvp enticing no-buildzone around it. Existing deeds that pay upkeep should not be penalized. Edited April 20, 2015 by madnezz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 20, 2015 I think what Chaos really needs is a large map like xanadu. I think its too small to encourage new PMK's to form and grow. The current map is just too cramped for that and a large area used for hota. A map that large can afford to have a hota with a large no build zone around it. I would think a server with many PMK's even if smaller might be more fun to play then 2-3 large ones covering most of the map. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) I think what Chaos really needs is a large map like xanadu. I think its too small to encourage new PMK's to form and grow. The current map is just too cramped for that and a large area used for hota. A map that large can afford to have a hota with a large no build zone around it. I would think a server with many PMK's even if smaller might be more fun to play then 2-3 large ones covering most of the map. You not get in your snipes before the last "lets kill Chaos" thread was locked? The current HOTA isn't locked down by any means, it's not like we have a wall around it, just a few well built deeds that were completely unmolested for so long we've managed to get them well fortified. I've seen what JK calls a "war deed at the HOTA" and it's like they didn't even try. A 100 tile extension wouldn't just take out active war deeds, but entire villages, like FF. The JK's generous offer to "refund the upkeep." isn't the same thing as trying to rebuild almost two years worth of work. I wouldn't mind if they came and reduced the deeds through PvP, but no. That isn't their MO and we both know that, and they also know their own major war deed is far enough back it likely won't fall under the "no build rules". No... just no. We went through this same crap when the JK didn't want to raid the WL and had the no-build zone enlarged over fortifications there.... multiple times. I'm tired of this, fight us in-game, stop trying to win your victories through this stupid metagame forum warfare. Edited April 20, 2015 by Battlepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 +1 definitely a great idea to re-introduce some competition into hota Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) You not get in your snipes before the last "lets kill Chaos" thread was locked? The current HOTA isn't locked down by any means, it's not like we have a wall around it, just a few well built deeds that were completely unmolested for so long we've managed to get them well fortified. I've seen what JK calls a "war deed at the HOTA" and it's like they didn't even try. A 100 tile extension wouldn't just take out active war deeds, but entire villages, like FF. The JK's generous offer to "refund the upkeep." isn't the same thing as trying to rebuild almost two years worth of work. I wouldn't mind if they came and reduced the deeds through PvP, but no. That isn't their MO and we both know that, and they also know their own major war deed is far enough back it likely won't fall under the "no build rules". No... just no. We went through this same crap when the JK didn't want to raid the WL and had the no-build zone enlarged over fortifications there.... multiple times. I'm tired of this, fight us in-game, stop trying to win your victories through this stupid metagame forum warfare. except MR won plenty through stupid metagame warfare, the shoe will never fit the other foot, people will always complain. Edited April 21, 2015 by Propheteer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 This sound a lot like "you have it, I don't have it" lets change it. Just remember, If my facts serve me correctly, Before Kratos was founded, there was no MR deeds on that side of the map. Now look at the map. Chaos change takes a long long time. That's the best thing about it. Ebonaura was not on the map at all, now they have a place and it seems to be expanding a touch. Things change. You want something? you have to fight for it and be consistent, its just the beast of chaos. I don't take any credit for it, as I'm never there, but MR as a whole always pushing, pushing, pushing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 I wont express opinion here. Ill just mention that two of the three deeds surrounding hota were made by people who are now enemies of MR. Well at least one of the two, the other Im not exactly sure what he is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) except MR won plenty through stupid metagame warfare, the shoe will never fit the other foot, people will always complain. Are you seriously trying to justify something you already know is a sad an pathetic attempt at trying to fight in-game battles on the forums? And just what exactly have we won on the HOTA through forum pvp? MR players built those deeds (at least in their current form), and we live there and defend them. Hell we shifted the focus of our entire kingdom over to Kratos and changed the way our kingdom was orgainzed and where we lived to fight for the HOTA. All of our deeds, heck about 1/4 of our entire kingdom lives in those deeds I'd wager, if not defending them they have homes there. And you are trying to pretend this is just some "stupid metagame" something you know is wrong. Hell go bark up another tree, JK has played this card before, and it's no surprise it's popped up again. Edited April 21, 2015 by Battlepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 Are you seriously trying to justify something you already know is a sad an pathetic attempt at trying to fight in-game battles on the forums? And just what exactly have we won on the HOTA through forum pvp? MR players built those deeds (at least in their current form), and we live there and defend them. Hell we shifted the focus of our entire kingdom over to Kratos and changed the way our kingdom was orgainzed and where we lived to fight for the HOTA. All of our deeds, heck about 1/4 of our entire kingdom lives in those deeds I'd wager, if not defending them they have homes there. And you are trying to pretend this is just some "stupid metagame" something you know is wrong. Hell go bark up another tree, JK has played this card before, and it's no surprise it's popped up again. not trying to justify anything, just saying these threads are going to continously pop up, just like MR complained in the past, for instance to get the WL moved the original time, and like JK is doing now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) not trying to justify anything, just saying these threads are going to continously pop up, just like MR complained in the past, for instance to get the WL moved the original time, and like JK is doing now. To be fair your right about that. I will however point out some of the reasons and you can compare them to the situation now and see if they are in context 1. I don't think anyone on the server realized that the WL was actually easy to bash at the time. Or bash-able at all for that matter. (I still think it was lowered in difficulty, from what I've heard of the previous attempt, and no I don't count the time it was dragged into a lava pit due to a bug) 2. It was less than 1-2 mins from Kyara, where as MR had to cross over two mountain ranges and push into JK territory, and try and get down dozens of walls for it. The WL was placed there before MR was formed and the game did need to be updated to reflect that. 3. After the WL was moved, the JK orignally secured complete control of it, except this time MR wasn't letting go of it. I'm not trying to justify trying to change things in fourm PvP, but there are reason people try to change things. Looking at it from today's perspective I'm not sure if it was the right decison, but it was made, and directly precluded the artifact change anyways. I do not think the situation is the same here. The JK currently have a war deed next to the HOTA, and have control over quite a bit of the nearby territory needed to get logistics there. The problem is you can't be asked to take out one of those war deeds to widen the gap. It would have been the same thing as instead of asking for the WL to be moved, we would have asked it to be extended over Kyara so they couldn't build there. Hell we finally got tired of trying to fight from over that stupid mountain range and did what had to be done to take our fights to the JK, now you guys have to deal with our entire kingdom in that part of the map, and all our logistics there rather than having the advantage of us always having to extend out to try and hold something. You don't want to fight, you want an easy win. It's much easier to abuse GM/Dev intervention than to actually play the game isn't it? Edited April 21, 2015 by Battlepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 You not get in your snipes before the last "lets kill Chaos" thread was locked? Apparently I missed that thread or i probably would have suggested it there also. I would also remove the ability to twig or recall in to any deed the enemy is within local of also. People shouldn't be able to defend a deed on one side of the map and then zoom across to another one on the other side that's being attacked. Such instant travel removes a good deal of strategy from the game and it allows more land to be taken then would ordinarily be defended.I am not even taking sides here just looking at it objectively. I feel its a valid suggestion but apparently to you its a snipe. Put yourself in the shoes of a group of people who want to start a new kingdom. Where would they plant down? Where would they hunt and skill up FS? Right now they would be at the mercy of people "giving" them a short break while they build but we all know how long that would last. They would never gain new members because of the futility of being cornered right from the start. The Hota should stand on its own with no safe havens around it for any side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 How do people find the time to make such long posts with all the action that is the Chaos server? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 Put yourself in the shoes of a group of people who want to start a new kingdom. Where would they plant down? Where would they hunt and skill up FS? Right now they would be at the mercy of people "giving" them a short break while they build but we all know how long that would last. They would never gain new members because of the futility of being cornered right from the start. The Hota should stand on its own with no safe havens around it for any side. Well, I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get all the server borders opened up, and did try to change how the alliance system works, so kingdoms could ally correctly once again or even be netural. Anways, to form a PMK on Chaos, you need to know the politics here. It's isn't a blank canvas. Every inch of it nearly is under the control of some kingom or another. This has nothing to do with the HOTA. So yes you are in the wrong topic. Any new PMK that wants to form on Chaos will have to face the fact it needs to take territory from an existing kingdom. This means you need to know how to fight before hand. Even if the sever was destroyed and replaced with a new one, or as some have suggested in the past, enlarged by keeping the existing server and makeing the server larger with more islands around it. You would still have to fight. No one kingdom will leave anyone alone. Not MR, JK, BL or anyone with an interest in holding the territory you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) To be fair your right about that. I will however point out some of the reasons and you can compare them to the situation now and see if they are in context 1. I don't think anyone on the server realized that the WL was actually easy to bash at the time. Or bash-able at all for that matter. (I still think it was lowered in difficulty, from what I've heard of the previous attempt, and no I don't count the time it was dragged into a lava pit due to a bug) 2. It was less than 1-2 mins from Kyara, where as MR had to cross over two mountain ranges and push into JK territory, and try and get down dozens of walls for it. The WL was placed there before MR was formed and the game did need to be updated to reflect that. 3. After the WL was moved, the JK orignally secured complete control of it, except this time MR wasn't letting go of it. I'm not trying to justify trying to change things in fourm PvP, but there are reason people try to change things. Looking at it from today's perspective I'm not sure if it was the right decison, but it was made, and directly precluded the artifact change anyways. I do not think the situation is the same here. The JK currently have a war deed next to the HOTA, and have control over quite a bit of the nearby territory needed to get logistics there. The problem is you can't be asked to take out one of those war deeds to widen the gap. It would have been the same thing as instead of asking for the WL to be moved, we would have asked it to be extended over Kyara so they couldn't build there. Hell we finally got tired of trying to fight from over that stupid mountain range and did what had to be done to take our fights to the JK, now you guys have to deal with our entire kingdom in that part of the map, and all our logistics there rather than having the advantage of us always having to extend out to try and hold something. You don't want to fight, you want an easy win. It's much easier to abuse GM/Dev intervention than to actually play the game isn't it? Yes, certainly. It is easier to utilize developer intervention. I can see many situations in which this is useful: Moving the WL for us, opening safemines for us, using GM toons to KOS alts on your starterdeed while you abuse alts on other kingdom starterdeeds that don't have active GM's to do so, asking a developer to remove another kingdoms deed so you can found a bigger deed, asking for clay to be put up on mountains your kingdom has a deed on, asking for champ lives for your kingdom in particular to be refunded when a mechanic your kingdom originally abused bites you, asking for staff to suspend a certain player for using a twig-dismount bug, and then advising (which he ends up doing) a GM in your kingdom to do so, who does it, without punishment, petitioning for another kingdoms main account/deed holder to get suspended for harassment after my kingdom intentionally names a deed to harass another player, asking for champ life reimbursements and successfully getting it after dying to an unintended mechanic in a fight while abusing said unintended mechanic (separate from listed above), petitioning for nerfs to champion animals on carts after losing a champ life to one, petitioning staff to make it so you have to recharge artifacts because we are unable to raid a deed, asking for nolocate jewelry in a private PM to a certain staff member after a raid being foiled due to being located. Anyone notice a particular history trend with this? We can keep this going all day, so cut the holier-than-thou crap, and just accept the post as a suggestion. It's less likely to work anyway seeing as how Rolf is more inclined to listen to a majority playerbase (especially when its a particular kingdom) once they contact/spam him via email or IRC. Luckily it doesn't happen as much, but still happens, but screaming "you only want it because you dont have it!!!" makes you look like a fool and it would be much more better looking on you, as you do represent your kingdom to say why it is bad and move on rather than throwing subtle underhanded jabs at people as an attempt to bait them into a forum ban. I'm excited for another person who's not a freedomer, and not in my kingdom (really narrows it down huh?) to quote this post and once again follow up with a pointless post rather than explaining that youd simply rather not lose your hard work. It's not like this would seriously be considered when it would affect the majority playerbase of that specific server, so please, be realistic. Edited April 21, 2015 by Propheteer 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Yes, certainly. It is easier to utilize developer intervention. I can see many situations in which this is useful: Moving the WL for us, opening safemines for us, using GM toons to KOS alts on your starterdeed while you abuse alts on other kingdom starterdeeds that don't have active GM's to do so, asking a developer to remove another kingdoms deed so you can found a bigger deed, asking for clay to be put up on mountains your kingdom has a deed on, asking for champ lives for your kingdom in particular to be refunded when a mechanic your kingdom originally abused bites you, asking for staff to suspend a certain player for using a twig-dismount bug, and then advising (which he ends up doing) a GM in your kingdom to do so, who does it, without punishment, petitioning for another kingdoms main account/deed holder to get suspended for harassment after my kingdom intentionally names a deed to harass another player, asking for champ life reimbursements and successfully getting it after dying to an unintended mechanic in a fight while abusing said unintended mechanic (separate from listed above), petitioning for nerfs to champion animals on carts after losing a champ life to one, petitioning staff to make it so you have to recharge artifacts because we are unable to raid a deed, asking for nolocate jewelry in a private PM to a certain staff member after a raid being foiled due to being located. Anyone notice a particular history trend with this? We can keep this going all day, so cut the holier-than-thou crap, and just accept the post as a suggestion. It's less likely to work anyway seeing as how Rolf is more inclined to listen to a majority playerbase (especially when its a particular kingdom) once they contact/spam him via email or IRC. Luckily it doesn't happen as much, but still happens, but screaming "you only want it because you dont have it!!!" makes you look like a fool and it would be much more better looking on you, as you do represent your kingdom to say why it is bad and move on rather than throwing subtle underhanded jabs at people as an attempt to bait them into a forum ban. I'm excited for another person who's not a freedomer, and not in my kingdom (really narrows it down huh?) to quote this post and once again follow up with a pointless post rather than explaining that youd simply rather not lose your hard work. It's not like this would seriously be considered when it would affect the majority playerbase of that specific server, so please, be realistic. Heh I have no doubt it will likely not be considered, just that It does annoy me from the perspective of someone who has watched his hard work destroyed time and time again through forum PvP, rather than actually through an enemy leveling a deed. Don't get me wrong, suggestions on the forum are a good thing, but trying to win advantages and destroy deeds by those suggestions rather than playing the game as intended for them, is not so good. This suggestion isn't to try and change basic mechanics to make the game better, but clearly destroy the hard work of one kingdom all the while trying to sound like your singing the tune of progress and not just trying to cop an advantage that you could get through in-game fighting that your kingdom alreadly clearly has the capability of doing if they get their act togather. I know that many players including you have tried to poke and prod the JK into action, and I thought they were doing just fine by setting up that new war deed and pushing towards the HOTA, at least until they ran out of steam and started venting their hot air here on the forums. Edited April 21, 2015 by Battlepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 Dunno bp, I can keep a post to within four lines and not email/directly contact a Dev with serious mechanic changes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Blah blah blah the usual "Oh woe is us! Rolf treats MR like a favorite son and beats JK like a red-headed stepchild" (I apologize to red-heads as I am one; though, not flaming red. Never been a stepchild; though, my sisters were adopted as newborns. Consider them the same as any biological sibling.) Meh, I recall when the whining was about BL. Heh, wish I had saved Zeno's retort as a sarcastic "confession" about Rolf giving them the hax... it was pretty funny. Granted when MR was implemented many of the more pvp-centric BL villages converted; though, that was more to escape ongoing nerfs to BL. Edited April 21, 2015 by Klaa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 They say it don't be like it is, but it do 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) No, this benefits the kingdom that planted the deed by using a bug. Iam joining that kingdom. So this suggestion DOESNT benefit me. Even if the deed was planted using bugs, the people planting the deed didnt knew about it. Why should they get punished then? Iam about to join MR so this suggestion wont benefit me at all. therefore BIG MINUS 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 Edited April 21, 2015 by mthoodyn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) No, this benefits the kingdom that planted the deed by using a bug. Iam joining that kingdom. So this suggestion DOESNT benefit me. Even if the deed was planted using bugs, the people planting the deed didnt knew about it. Why should they get punished then? Iam about to join MR so this suggestion wont benefit me at all. therefore BIG MINUS 1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 wow someone havent had his coffee for a while. Go play wurm, might feel better. (and as i am not that old timer as you, can you please explain what bug?) Edited April 21, 2015 by Argustin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
