Does enchanting work the way it should?

[Thorakkanath 444]

Here are the results of my test:

 

Chan 70+

SD 60+

Faith 100

Alignment 100

55 Faith bonus

Rare statuette

30% bonus icon active

Inside the domain and next to a 60+ql gold altar

chanelling title on

 

All items I've casted on are between 8 and 23 QL

 

1. c41

2. c40

3. shatter

4. c48

5. c26 -> 24.  c61

6. c39

7. c60

8. c32

9. c40

10. c60

11. shatter

12. c22 -> 21. resonance -> 22. resonance ->23. c76

13. c56

14. c48

15. c14 ->20. c29 -> 30. resonance -> 31. c34

16. c30

17. resonance ->18.  c13 -> 19. c29 -> 25. frown -> 26. frown -> 27. frown -> 28. frown -> 29.  c36

 

After 23 attempts...first 70+ cast

After 31 casts still just one 70+ power

 

RESULTS

 

Note: best case scenarios (e.g. if I fail to improve 29power I considered the power to be 28 and if it resonates and gets damaged, the negative power is just 1 power lower than 1/3 of the ql), actual results ARE worse

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gsOBbQtiqNQvbp13Poppi6WfBeetHp5_TwjXfeM6RpA/pubchart?oid=2115273814&format=image

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gsOBbQtiqNQvbp13Poppi6WfBeetHp5_TwjXfeM6RpA/pubchart?oid=1937279813&format=image

 

 

Best casts: 76, 61, 60

Favor used: 1310

 

PS. I cannot link the images for some reason so they are as links

Edited April 21, 2015 by Thorakkanath

[McGarnicle 1,463]

^ Wow, this is why favor items aren't selling anymore. 1.3k favor resulted in a 76 and two low 60 casts.

 

It also goes to show that channelling is far more important compared to soul depth.

I might have to do a similar test with my priest which has lower soul depth and higher channelling to compare.

[Mith 318]

I think things are working fine, its hard to get a high cast, easter but still hard if you have an experienced caster. There are so many variables that infuence the cast, and they are only spread between friends telling friends telling friends. I dont think its the system that is wrong or faulty. I believe its the lack of all the details to get the max results thats fustrating people.

[Nappy 1,369]

I am not entirely convinced that there aren't multiple rotating formulas in use too. Cast 1, formula 1, cast 2, formula 2 etc.

 

Also some days just seem to go better then others. Starting to believe server lag plays a key role, perhaps even acts as the random factor.

 

Lot's of uncertainty with priests unfortunately.

[Rockmod 17]

I am not entirely convinced that there aren't multiple rotating formulas in use too. Cast 1, formula 1, cast 2, formula 2 etc.

Also some days just seem to go better then others. Starting to believe server lag plays a key role, perhaps even acts as the random factor.

Lot's of uncertainty with priests unfortunately.

Haha, so I'm not the only one that seems to think certain days or certain times of the day are better than others.

[Mith 318]

At some point I started to make a wurm calender with good and bad casts at what time of the wurm day and such, Sadly I never really got it compiled into something usefull.

[Arronicus 634]

 

 

With enchanting it's the immense and expensive grind followed by the disenchantment (no pun intended) that you're still as bad as the year before.

 

 

There's nothing expensive about it really. My vyn priest does decent enough (60-70 Coc/Woa) enchants on my tools, pendulums, etc, and it hasn't cost me almost anything. Just don't use gems and it's not expensive.

Also, one thing that isn't being brought up here is casting difficulty on items. I'm not sure if it has been debunked or proven, but from personal experience and that of friends, some items, like horseshoes, consistently get worse rolls than other items like tools do. 

Edited April 21, 2015 by Arronicus

[Nappy 1,369]

So many theories exist about casting. Another one I have is that there is actually a ratio in play between soul depth and channeling. They have to stay within a certain range, get one out of whack with the other and casting suffers.

 

I guess this is what happens with priests, you attempt to figure out something that is likely designed not to be figured out!

[Rockmod 17]

So who do we need to pay to get all the info on enchanting?

[Tekari 133]

There's nothing expensive about it really. My vyn priest does decent enough (60-70 Coc/Woa) enchants on my tools, pendulums, etc, and it hasn't cost me almost anything. Just don't use gems and it's not expensive.

Also, one thing that isn't being brought up here is casting difficulty on items. I'm not sure if it has been debunked or proven, but from personal experience and that of friends, some items, like horseshoes, consistently get worse rolls than other items like tools do. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the increased skillgain on Epic work on channeling as well? And the curve too right?

[rapidron 142]

However, people spend huge amounts of time and effort grinding their priests up to high levels, hoping for good casts, and are disappointed when they see it's not that much better and their grind was probably pointless. Pointless Pointless Pointless

[Arronicus 634]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the increased skillgain on Epic work on channeling as well? And the curve too right?

The skillgain is part of the curve, so indirectly you gain it faster, yes.

[Tekari 133]

There's nothing expensive about it really. My vyn priest does decent enough (60-70 Coc/Woa) enchants on my tools, pendulums, etc, and it hasn't cost me almost anything. Just don't use gems and it's not expensive.

 

 

The skillgain is part of the curve, so indirectly you gain it faster, yes.

 

Ok then. You say there's nothing expensive about getting a good priest.

 

But since you live on Epic you can raise your channeling to 50 with what, double skillgain? And since it's affected by the curve your 50 channeling is effectively a 75?

 

Well of course on Epic it isn't expensive and you don't need gems. Up to 50 chan it's possible to grind it without doing vessel and using gems.

 

Still I don't think it any good to have to cast 20, 30 or 40 or whoknowshowmany times to get a high cast if you have a highly skilled priest.

[Bix 453]

Ok then. You say there's nothing expensive about getting a good priest.

 

But since you live on Epic you can raise your channeling to 50 with what, double skillgain? And since it's affected by the curve your 50 channeling is effectively a 75?

 

Well of course on Epic it isn't expensive and you don't need gems. Up to 50 chan it's possible to grind it without doing vessel and using gems.

 

Still I don't think it any good to have to cast 20, 30 or 40 or whoknowshowmany times to get a high cast if you have a highly skilled priest.

 

My low-end-account priest can pump out 80+ casts pretty easily and the only thing I've spent on it was to get premium time. Don't forget that Epic doesn't get the luxury of grinding channelling using Vessel.

 

You don't even need gems since you can sacrifice items to gain favor, it's only expensive for you because you buy unnecessary things.

[Ayes 3,715]

From reading through all this it seems that the random generator is the key factor in casting results with all other related skills/stats subordinate to it. This would make sense, as it is more of an easy mode way to program casting results than to go into the more intricate details of balancing the skills/stats to produce the final results.

 

Never underestimate the allure of an easier way to program things in contrast to more fine tuning required for more equitable results.

 

=Ayes=

[BrandonSF 250]

I have a pretty good priest and what I have learned, it's really all about that toy making/locksmithing/clothtailoring skill.

 

Make a lot of favor, because casts ARE very random and if you want good casts.. it's all about a lot of favor/casts.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

It's working the way Rolf wants it to.

As for the player .... don't bother spending years raising your priest stats and skills. Your 95 faith, 90 channel, 50 SD and 100 alignment is as effective as a priest with half of those skills.

Complete RNG. 

 

My low-end-account priest can pump out 80+ casts pretty easily

Must have something to do with being over on that cluster then. Over here, 80 casts haven't been frequent since Chaos was Wild and everyone and their mothers were Champs.

Funny how religion got a "workover" and casting got gimped as soon as Wild's borders were open to the rest of PVE. Years worth of 90+ casts from the "Champ Online" era that sat in chests collecting dust magically found a new market that couldn't be competed against.

[Wargasm 1,927]

Priests are FINE.  If it wasn't hard, *everyone* would be doing it.

 

People mistake how difficult casting really is.  You don't simply activate a statuette and "get lucky".  You farm wemp (or pay someone to do it), you make cordage rope (or pay someone to do it), you spend 30 seconds per cast sacrificing the cordage rope to regain your favor, and then finally you spend 20 seconds to attempt to cast again.  A 70 ql tool is worth half as much as a 70 power enchant, because the tool took half as much effort from a skill (blacksmithing) that is twice as easy to skill in.  No gems required, no sermons, no praying, and no soul depth required.

[Gaeron 551]

Priests are FINE.  If it wasn't hard, *everyone* would be doing it.

 

People mistake how difficult casting really is.  You don't simply activate a statuette and "get lucky".  You farm wemp (or pay someone to do it), you make cordage rope (or pay someone to do it), you spend 30 seconds per cast sacrificing the cordage rope to regain your favor, and then finally you spend 20 seconds to attempt to cast again.  A 70 ql tool is worth half as much as a 70 power enchant, because the tool took half as much effort from a skill (blacksmithing) that is twice as easy to skill in.  No gems required, no sermons, no praying, and no soul depth required.

 

We have all the priesting restrictions, when we didn't everyone did do it. Nothing to do with it being "hard"

 

As for your definition of "fine"

 

I need farming and fishing skill to source materials for sacrifice items and HFC, ok check both skills well over 90.

 

I need rope-making to turn some of those farmed items into cordage for sacrificing, ok, its not 90 because do you realise how slow it is to raise as a priest with create only gains? but still, the skill is well over 80 and I'm getting there for it to be 90.

 

You also need a good rope-tool for even a hint of consistent quality in cordage, make that at least 80ql preferably 90.

 

And of course you'll need decent channelling, so over 90 on this too.

 

Then you start every day farming and fishing for base resources followed by some more time turning wemp into cordage, this is the point where you can interleave cordage making and sacrificing/casting, and yes at that point every cast is the best part of a minute.

 

With all those skills, with all that prep effort, with all the resultant casting and quite often if casting on a 60-70 enchant Item I can get...... nothing, no improvements, lots of frowns, occasional resonance.

 

I don't call that fine.

 

PS, if you say you can store up produce/fish, well yes you can but the effort remains the same and while you do this you are not casting.

[Shiraek 464]

I think most people (not most uber priests but everyone else) would be happier with the system if:

 

• 90 Channelling meant you could reliably imp casts up to 90 given enough time (say 10 casts, or something comparable to imping an item to 90ql with 90 in the relevant skill)
• 40 channelling meant you could reliably imp to 40 etc
• Shatter rate dropped to zero when item quality + channelling > 100
• Rolf released the actual formulae for calculating success chance, including things like what (if anything) soul depth and statuette quality do

I'd probably re-prem my priest alt if that were the case. 40-50 ql casts are useful to me, shattering everything no matter the quality to get to 40 sometimes is not

As for releasing the info, I think once you've got superstitions forming (and some of what we "believe" about casting must be superstition by now, so many people are saying so many wacky random things affect it) it's probably time to end the speculation as the "discovery" stage is over. In fact if we were ever going to "Discover" the formulae we would've nailed it years ago.

[Thorakkanath 444]

See, i don't even want the formula itself. I would be happy with a skill priority as in what are all the skills/things involved in the cast power.

 

So for example once someone confirms a list and on the list you don't see statuette anywhere it will be clear that statuettes, rarity of it and ql are not involved in any formula.

 

Also maybe some percentages would be nice, as in say at 100 channeling chances of landing a 80 power cast are x%.

 

I don't need full disclosure to be happy lol

[BlGpapa 68]

the system right now profit only to those with uber priest and discourage anyone to try making a priest alt since the amount of work required to make a decent priest is insane. a first good step would be to reveil what affect the chance of succes when trying to enchant so at least we know what to work on.

Edited April 22, 2015 by BlGpapa

[Gaeron 551]

As I understand it the formula is based around a bell curve.

 

A value is generated between +/- N without any modifiers a + is a success a - is a fail.

 

If the cast is over half way into the - then its resonance/damage time, if its over 3/4 of the way into the - then its a shatter.

 

Cast difficulty moves the mean point of the curve to the right so the harder it is, the more + results will now end in a failure and the easier it is to get a shatter

 

Channelling skill moves the mean point of the curve to the left so there are fewer and fewer - values for the damage/shatter chances to occur.

 

Thats the only bits that I know Rolf has verified in the past, I don't remember if the -1/2 -3/4 markers are factual or were just to help the explanation.

 

The following have been debated in the past and AFAIK have the greatest following but I've no idea if they are correct myself.

 

• High SD works as a power bonus on a successful casts (I've seen nothing to confirm this myself)
  
• Faith bonus works like channelling in moving the mean point but the amount it adds is very small, (this seems likely.)
  
• Statues are purely to enable casting and have no impact at all on a cast. (very likely)
  
• The difficulty rises in improving a cast, the more different casts there are on an item (again unsure)
  

Thats all the info and rumour I've gotten so far.

[Rockmod 17]

I also like to make sure my thirst is 99% before casting...seems to help...but does it actually help...absolutely not.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

the system right now profit only to those with uber priest and discourage anyone to try making a priest alt since the amount of work required to make a decent priest is insane.

It's actually quite the opposite.

I have an "uber" priest I have spent 7 years on. He is no better a caster than a priest with half of his skills. 5 of those 7 years were wasted time.

That's the discouraging part: the fact that an unskilled character is "just as good" as a skilled one. 

Edited April 23, 2015 by As_I_Decay