Priest Restrictions : Alterations

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

As things stand, maining a priest just means you end up with a free alt that you use (log in, taking up another server slot and increasing lag) to do chores with.

 

Some people do pay for their alts, thus adding another premium character to the pool.  Some people just buy a priest for a pet, someone to increase their income.  This suggestion is not aimed at these players as the changes to restrictions would not allow them the same degree of freedom they now have.

 

The big issue with lightening the restrictions on priests is the thought of everyone who premiums up becoming a priest.  This is something we want to prevent and so priests do need some kind of restrictions that discourage everyone from becoming one.

 

That verbose introduction aside the changes are simple :

 

1.  Allow priests to construct objects (adding components, continue).  This just allows construction, not improving.

 

2.  Allow priests to use all gathering skills that they do not have specifically unlocked with an effective cap of 20 (skillgain will still occur but no effect over 20 will be possible, so you will never get more than QL20 ore from mining unless you are a mag priest, nor will you be able to prospect over 20 skill).  This is the big one and it is there simply to save the time of logging on an alt to cut down a sprout, clear a cave in or pack a tile, it's annoying and utterly pointless.  I suggest 20 as the cap simply because it is the same as a free players and the same as a free alt could manage.  I have not opted for a skillgain freeze as it serves no real purpose.

 

3.  Remove the horrific stat penalty as per this suggestion : http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/121908-priest-restrictions-alterations/.  Why this was ever added boggles the mind, there are enough arguments on that thread without me adding more.

 

These changes are not likely to create an "all priest" world but would mean a world of difference to people who main priests.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Etherdrifter

[Uberknot 327]

No and No and No....You want godly powers then you are subject to some kind of restrictions and/or penalties.

 

btw i have a vyn priest.....90 faith 70 channeling etc etc....

 

89 mining 77 digging 41 wcing 54 mason etc etc....

 

I have depriested 3 times. I have also went against my faith and done things I couldnt do.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Uberknot

[Fraeya 341]

I hate not being able to build on my priest. I will always have a priest as an alt rather than a main as I like smithing however my priest plays on a different server so any construction has to be asked from another villager which is a huge pain. It also means I can't help out building anything.

 

Getting stuck in a mine as a vyn priest and not being able to mine out or help with surface mining projects sucks too, I think being able to gather all materials even capped at 1ql would be a huge help.

[Kagrenac 812]

Allowing priests to do every gathering skill/construction without restriction would remove 2 of the 3 main reasons everyone isn't a priest.

 

If you have to clear a cavein on a priest that cannot mine, why do you have a cave to begin with. Cutting down a tree of packing a tile can easily be done by going unfaithful and taking a minor penalty, priests shouldn't be able to grind everything and gain skill for it without penalty.

 

The cap of 20 also won't limit you to acting anything like a free alt, if you have high skill your action timers will be a fraction of what a f2p alt can achieve.

If you go the other way and make the priests skill count as if they had 20, you get huge skillgain bonuses.

 

 

Really the only thing I can support is removal of the skillgain penalty, and that is because priests are already restricted in their actions.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Kagrenac

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

@Uberknot

You're quite correct, there should be restrictions in place.  I just believe the existing ones are too harsh.


@Kagrenac

 

Your raise an interesting point.  I envisioned only being able to get a skill effect as one would from a 20 skill character with the skillgain unaffected (so acting at their real level).

 

I would contest your main point.  Most free players can build most things, the reason they go premium is to get better quality items.  Being unable to improve is still a very large barrier, larger by far than being able to gather like a free player and construct.  Yes it might make some people more willing to priest, but only those that don't care about item QL (thus would not be likely to premium in the first place).

 

A priest might well have a cave (I use one to get down from my mountain).  Being unfaithful is fine if you have a nice pack of alts/premium villagers to get free sermon resets, but it is a real problem to lose a day's worth of faith just to remove a tree.

[Baloo 709]

+ 1  The severe restrictions on priests are ludicrous.

[Uberknot 327]

@Uberknot

You're quite correct, there should be restrictions in place.  I just believe the existing ones are too harsh.

@Kagrenac

 

Your raise an interesting point.  I envisioned only being able to get a skill effect as one would from a 20 skill character with the skillgain unaffected (so acting at their real level).

 

I would contest your main point.  Most free players can build most things, the reason they go premium is to get better quality items.  Being unable to improve is still a very large barrier, larger by far than being able to gather like a free player and construct.  Yes it might make some people more willing to priest, but only those that don't care about item QL (thus would not be likely to premium in the first place).

 

A priest might well have a cave (I use one to get down from my mountain).  Being unfaithful is fine if you have a nice pack of alts/premium villagers to get free sermon resets, but it is a real problem to lose a day's worth of faith just to remove a tree.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Uberknot

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

Read the op

[Uberknot 327]

Read the op

 

 I see you dont have a friend

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

 I see you dont have a friend

None at all (!)

Edited April 15, 2015 by Etherdrifter

[Zenity 728]

Some people play pretty much as lone players, as one of those types I can see the benefits of being able to live in Wurm, without having to log off/log on to use an alt, or make my main into an alt who can only do priest stuff.

 

I understand the alt argument, but the only thing that has stopped me priesting my main is the fact that I am rather attached to that character as a main, and it would be akin to retiring him from 'normal' life.

 

Also, as a rather lazy character, any alt would have to spend years getting to the same level as my main.

 

While I agree with the price of being able to cast spells, I've always thought of the restrictions as unnecessarily harsh, this presents a way that is still restricted, but not so restricted as to make a reasonably skilled character completely useless other than as a spell caster.

 

I can't think of any good reasons why some restrictions cannot be lifted somewhat, the only reasons offered thus far have tended along the lines of 'this is the way it's always been', which can be applied to anything, we never used to have nice characters with animations, or multi storey housing, we never sat on horses or carts, we still stand in boats, although sitting is possible.

 

Things change, just because it's always been that way does not mean it always has to be that way.

 

"Come on Rolf, you got what you wanted, give these priests some houses!"

[Stanlee 3,434]

I can't get behind the idea of a Vynora priest mining or building. They appear to intentionally be not serious "contributors" and observe their god's sphere of influence - such as Magranon to mining, Fo to digging. These spheres of influence are the most understandable reason for why doing these actions would require you to be unfaithful to your god - and perhaps the idea that building and imping distract you from your faith. Thus, I can understand keeping those restrictions in, both from a gameplay, lore and "Rolf's bottom line" perspective. Even if they are annoying, the annoying can be interesting.

 

That said, the characteristic stab seems completely unnecessary given the restrictions already given to characteristic gains via the limited skill options. As well, several of the limitations just dumbfound me (can't rotate a wall being on the "well okay" end and can't mix dyes being on the "what why" end).

[Kagrenac 812]

Your raise an interesting point.  I envisioned only being able to get a skill effect as one would from a 20 skill character with the skillgain unaffected (so acting at their real level).

 

I would contest your main point.  Most free players can build most things, the reason they go premium is to get better quality items.  Being unable to improve is still a very large barrier, larger by far than being able to gather like a free player and construct.  Yes it might make some people more willing to priest, but only those that don't care about item QL (thus would not be likely to premium in the first place).

 

A priest might well have a cave (I use one to get down from my mountain).  Being unfaithful is fine if you have a nice pack of alts/premium villagers to get free sermon resets, but it is a real problem to lose a day's worth of faith just to remove a tree.

The skill system really cant work that way, since it's partially based off action timers for a lot of actions, if you give them the long timer for low skill they get the skillgain benefit, if you give them the short timer for high skill they get to use their skill and the 20ql cap really isn't a penalty for most prohibited actions.

 

I really doubt the reason people go prem is for item ql, it's mostly for the ability to raise stats/skills.

You can always obtain high QL items from other people, but you can't gain skills/stats without premium.

 

Priests already obtain those high QL items from others, so letting them do anything except improve really isn't much of a penalty at all.

A lot of items also can be completed at near max quality for your skill, if you build a wall or make a wooden shield with good mats, it comes out at a very high ql.

 

 

I planted around 100 trees as a lib priest, along with harvesting fruits, gathering flowers, and other unfaithful actions like that and very rarely had a minimum size sermon.

 

The faith penalty is almost nothing, once you get enough faith to cast what you want to cast just consider anything over that level your pool for unfaithful actions, as it really isn't useful for anything else.

[Alyeska 2,621]

construction; priests should be able to construct altars of their god.

[Wargasm 1,928]

Priests are fine.  If you don't like not being able to build a brick house, chip the bricks and have your other toon build the house, you're still doing it twice as fast, not 1.5 times faster.

 

There was no such thing as a Death Palashamadruidlock in WoW, so if you really want construction on a priest... okay, let my main cast WoA and CoC too as a follower.

 

I didn't think so.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

So far the poll results are quite interesting, while the majority of the forum feedback has been negative (7 posts vs 6 posts including the op) the current poll seems to indicate that the majority of players (19/30) would like to see some alteration to priest restrictions.  The most popular being the removal of stat limitations (to be expected) with 18/30, followed by construction with 14/30 and finally restricted harvesting with 10/30.  2 players have suggested different alterations to restrictions and 7 players have said they like the status quo.

 

Players have indicated an even 50/50 split here that this would either have no effect or make them more inclined to main a priest.  None of have said these changes would make them less inclined to main a priest.

 

While the sample size is not yet indicative of wurm's population it does indicate that forum opinion (in the form of posts) does not reflect community opinion.  Something that might be worthwhile for rolf to do would be to get a wider poll of community opinion via the in game feedback mechanic he introduced.

[Minirawl 18]

construction; priests should be able to construct altars of their god.

[SotG_is_OP 357]

construction; priests should be able to construct altars of their god.

[KanePT 699]

These would be a good start, but still not enough.

What we need is the option to unlock more skills than those, so that we can improve stuff. One idea that has been floating around from time to time is to unlock more skills (or skill levels) as you progress in Faith. With you becoming a Champion (the utmost faithfull - which isn't available on pvE though) actually unlocking everything.

So basically every X faith (some go for 10, some for the title caps) you'd get the option of unlocking a certain skill, either out of a thematic pool for each divinity, or free choice, that you'd have free range with.

 

So for example, a Vyn priest could have the option of improving Puppets (or net traps xp) and thus be able to craft high ql YOYOs easily. Or since they are already woodcutters, they could be able to unlock carpentry, and improve carp items.

You could also be more radical about it and unlock other unrelated stuff. For example i could be sitting on a literal gold mine, and choose to imp jewelry for sacc items. So i'd unlock mining and jewelry with my Vyn.

This would allow more play with priests, giving them some sustainability as a main character.

And in all honesty what would be the issue with everyone priesting? Everyone can become a Weaponsmith, a carpenter, a tailor, a anything, does everyone do that?

[Kagrenac 812]

While the sample size is not yet indicative of wurm's population it does indicate that forum opinion (in the form of posts) does not reflect community opinion.  Something that might be worthwhile for rolf to do would be to get a wider poll of community opinion via the in game feedback mechanic he introduced.

The thing is, Rolf really doesn't care what people think about priest limitations or if they like them or not.

 

The point of the restrictions is to stop everyone from being a priest, if he set up a poll that said "if we let priests build, continue, and do every creation action, would you be a priest" all it would really tell him is how well those restrictions are working.

[Audrel 2,223]

I will admit that sometimes I want to punch a tree that I can't cut down without a ding but there's never a shortage of someone who would cut it down if I ask. Even if I didn't have a main non-priest, I have neighbors and friends who would come clear it. The only restriction that really rankles is not being able to make a healing cover on a Mag. Not being able to heal yourself is pretty annoying thing at times.

[AAetius 133]

Not everyone should be a priest. 

I would support that if you priest, you would get lets say 100 points.   Then you could choose what you want to do, ie.   mining -20, farming, -20, etc.

[Etherdrifter 2,518]

Oddly enough something I will just throw out there.

 

Why not put restrictions on other classes?  Since that is what priesting is, it is classing in a classless game

 

Might be interesting to see how a blacksmith would feel about being unable to cut down trees or continue non-smithing items without losing some of his/her smithing skill.  Or a carpenter being unable to terraform without losing carpentry skill...

[Uberknot 327]

Oddly enough something I will just throw out there.

 

Why not put restrictions on other classes?  Since that is what priesting is, it is classing in a classless game

 

Might be interesting to see how a blacksmith would feel about being unable to cut down trees or continue non-smithing items without losing some of his/her smithing skill.  Or a carpenter being unable to terraform without losing carpentry skill...

 

Because then you would have to give them special power like SPELLS..do you want to go through the whole list of spells a priest gets and is able to do?  Not only he made it extremely easy to get faith and higher powered spells, removed timers from spells, and has made it easier than ever to be a priest and cast spells.

 

In Wurm you are either a NON Priest or a Priest that's it. 

 

For some reason people want to be both...

Edited April 16, 2015 by Uberknot

[Kagrenac 812]

Oddly enough something I will just throw out there.

 

Why not put restrictions on other classes?  Since that is what priesting is, it is classing in a classless game

 

Might be interesting to see how a blacksmith would feel about being unable to cut down trees or continue non-smithing items without losing some of his/her smithing skill.  Or a carpenter being unable to terraform without losing carpentry skill...