My Apology to the Community

[akaedis 429]

So people pissed off at a repeat thief/scammer are equally guilty if they turn on him and want him gone?

 

I think your moral compass has a plastic needle.

 

My moral compass is as i want it to be. Going after someone for their past is no excuse, i don't care about the crime, its not an excuse. Nothing in this world gives one the right to attack another, Verbally, Physically or Mentally. 

[LorraineJ 1,099]

            My question back to you, Who in there right mind trades any item and waits days to be paid?

 

Anyone who does business in real life, for one. I think most of the businesses I've workd for had Net 30. Some even had Net 60. Do you pay your electric bill before you use the electricity, or after, and they come measure how much you used?

 

I will not buy into this "blame the victim" mentality, ever.

[Karys 77]

            My question back to you, Who in there right mind trades any item and waits days to be paid? It's surely not a safe way to do business. 

 

Please cite where such was claimed to have occurred, because as far as I can tell, this situation is a complete fabrication within your own mind and is not supported by the facts as presented.

 

If what you have said is correct and bruhamoff had no intention of ever paying Gnome for the ships and as you say if true he planned to keep both ships and coin, then yes that would be considered inappropriate in a PVE setting.

 

 

I've never claimed to know anyone's intentions or thoughts in this matter; I've only repeated the actual actions which were taken and documented as having happened.  You may draw whatever conclusions you wish about intentions based on those actions, but please don't put words in my mouth.

 

 But this is why we have GMs, so they can investigate the claims of scams, theft ect ect. They make the hard decisions of what should be done with those that violate the game rules. A GM handled this matter, As a player and as one who has paid alot to play this game, I respect that GM decision in how he handled it.

 

 

I also respect the GM's handling of the matter, and appreciate that they did step in and handle it instead of ignoring it as would have likely happened in some other games.  I am very grateful that we have GMs who will take the time to consider these cases, and who do their human best to help players for the good of the game.  However, the manner in which it had to be handled (forcible repayment instead of voluntary restitution) does nothing to establish or restore any level of faith or trust in the guilty party, but rather further damages it.  A GM ruling and conclusion to moderation does not alter an individual's heart or intentions, it only changes the outward circumstances.

 

If this player is as all claims him to be, a thief, liar then i guess it wont be long before he strikes again for its hard for that kind of person to change there said ways.

 

 

According to others, this was not the first incident of less than honest behavior he had engaged in.  If these accounts are to be believed, there is already a pattern of such actions.  How many times should he be allowed to "strike" before he earns enough distrust for other players to be warranted in advising caution in dealing with him?

 

But i have had business with him and in fact purchased one the boats recently from him as a gift to one my villagers. I did not have a single problem with him. I did business with him before this incident and did not have a problem with him.

 

That's good; at least he appears to be starting to attempt honest dealings, which could indicate sincerity in his apology.  Of course, it could also just be that currently there is too much "heat" and scrutiny over his recent actions, and he is playing it safe.  Only time will tell which is true, and it will take a great deal of effort to undo the damage he has done to himself.  As I stated before, until then I will choose to reward those who have chosen not to tarnish their reputations by their actions by taking my business to them first, before going to those who I feel may not be trustworthy or who have knowingly wronged others in their business dealings.  What I mean by that is that if I am presented with the opportunity to do business with one of two players, one of whom has a sterling reputation for being honest in his dealings and always treating his customers fairly, and one who has had a more questionable past, I feel that I owe it to the first to do business with the one who has made an effort to always behave admirably.

 

Am i defending him, Well ive been accused of it by some in this generous community, In truth i have always point out the obvious, many agree-The trade was out of whats considered normal protocol within the game. I maintain that statement! 

 

 

I don't know whether I could say you are defending him, but you have certainly been attacking those who would make his misdeeds known.  Does there need to be moderation and restraint in such discussions?  Most certainly!  But judging from your posts, it seems that you would advocate completely silencing anyone who would say anything negative regarding the incident.  Such a course of action would only allow others to continue in ignorance, and permit a potential thief and scammer to continue thieving and scamming unhindered.  I find such an outcome wholly unacceptable.  

 

Will it be difficult for Bruhamoff to restore his reputation under such circumstances?  Yes, but that is the consequence he has brought upon himself by his choices and actions, and it is that which he must bear if he is truly sincere in wanting to recover trust after this situation.  It is not mine nor anyone else's right or responsibility to remove such a burden from him, as to do so would devalue any trust he might regain; if he is too easily given trust after such an incident, then even if he has truly changed, there will always be the specter of doubt hovering over him as others wonder "did he really change, or is he just hiding it better?"  To allow him to escape his reputation with little to no effort on his part does a disservice to the community as a whole, and a disservice to Bruhamoff himself.  Let him work to earn back his reputation, and then it will be established and well deserved; don't cheapen it by blindly handing it back to him.  Silencing those who would warn others only achieves the latter.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

 Nothing in this world gives one the right to attack another, Verbally, Physically or Mentally. 

 

So you don't see theft as a form of attack?

[Yamuliss 105]

Anyone who does business in real life, for one. I think most of the businesses I've workd for had Net 30. Some even had Net 60. Do you pay your electric bill before you use the electricity, or after, and they come measure how much you used?

 

I will not buy into this "blame the victim" mentality, ever.

Yes i pay my electric bill and my cable bill both ahead. But i don't slip cash as in paper money in a envelope and drop in a drop box and hope its received by an honest employee of that establishment. But i have a solution to this to avoid this from happening again. Why don't the devs and gms and design team make writs for boats and carts that can cross servers and that are different color then the writs we are all using so they are not confused. Then the said writs can be placed on Merchants for sell and trade. Wouldn't that prevent this kind of incident from happening in the future? Not to mention a good way to move trade safely and they could even make deed writs transferable to a merchant writ so a player could buy a deed for sale without the hassle of forum communication. Or keep it the same way it is now and people can trade like normal with no drop boxes for collecting coin!

 

Or better yet maybe make a new ingame item called drop box for coin collecting in which only the owner of the box can withdraw the coin.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Yamuliss

[akaedis 429]

So you don't see theft as a form of attack?

 

ill repeat it since you didn't understand, and explain it further

 

Nothing in this world gives one the right to attack another, Verbally, Physically or Mentally. 

 

Meaning, Even with their past actions, You shouldn't go after someone, Ever. Even if they attacked first, It isn't right to go after them and harass them constantly. On no grounds whatsoever should anyone anywhere have any right at all to attack another person, Verbally, physically or mentally. 

 

Do you understand what im saying or do i need to clarify even further in simpler terms?

[Karys 77]

Yes i pay my electric bill and my cable bill both ahead. 

 

Really?  Because my electric company and cable company bill me after the month of use; they are trusting me to make good on services already provided.  That is how it has worked everywhere I have lived, and I sincerely doubt the companies in your area are operating on the reverse model.

 

But i don't slip cash as in paper money in a envelope and drop in a drop box and hope its received by an honest employee of that establishment.

 

 

I've actually known many small businesses which have operated this way; even a local bank has an after-hours drop box.

 

But i have a solution to this to avoid this from happening again. Why don't the devs and gms and design team make writs for boats and carts that can cross servers and that are different color then the writs we are all using so they are not confused. Then the said writs can be placed on Merchants for sell and trade. Wouldn't that prevent this kind of incident from happening in the future? Not to mention a good way to move trade safely and they could even make deed writs transferable to a merchant writ so a player could buy a deed for sale without the hassle of forum communication.

 

Yes, that is a very good solution to prevent this kind of situation in the future.  In fact, it is a solution that others have proposed multiple times in the various discussions of this incident.  However, implementing a preventative solution after the fact has absolutely no impact on what has already transpired.

[Karys 77]

ill repeat it since you didn't understand, and explain it further

 

Nothing in this world gives one the right to attack another, Verbally, Physically or Mentally. 

 

Meaning, Even with their past actions, You shouldn't go after someone, Ever. Even if they attacked first, It isn't right to go after them and harass them constantly. On no grounds whatsoever should anyone anywhere have any right at all to attack another person, Verbally, physically or mentally. 

 

Do you understand what im saying or do i need to clarify even further in simpler terms?

 

 

I think you are going to have to clarify what you are calling an attack, because I believe that as others see it, what you call an attack they see as publicly warning others of possible danger.  Have some of those warnings been rather vocal and outspoken?  Yes, but as long as they are truthful and not slanderous, and have not broken any rules, then they are well within their rights.  If these comments bother you or anyone else, remember that we have been given an ignore option for a reason.

 

Maybe you're not lumping all of the comments against Bruhamoff together as attacks, and you distinguish an "attack" from a "warning",  but that is not the impression you have been giving, so if that is the actual case then I'd suggest taking some time to clarify your position rather than just repeating yourself.  As it stands your posts have come off as portraying yourself as one who holds those who would publicly warn their neighbors of a criminal just as guilty as the criminal himself, and I hope it is clear why others consider this a ridiculous perspective.  If this is not the idea you are trying to convey, then yes some additional clarification is in order.

 

Note that this is not intended as an attack against you, but rather is simply my attempt to help you understand how others are viewing your posts.  I think that if you take a step back and look at it from this perspective, those involved in this discussion might reach a better understanding.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Karys

[LorraineJ 1,099]

 

Nothing in this world gives one the right to attack another, Verbally, Physically or Mentally. 

 

Meaning, Even with their past actions, You shouldn't go after someone, Ever. Even if they attacked first, It isn't right to go after them and harass them constantly. On no grounds whatsoever should anyone anywhere have any right at all to attack another person, Verbally, physically or mentally. 

 

Do you understand what im saying or do i need to clarify even further in simpler terms?

 

I just see you didn't answer my question.

 

And I'll tell you this: EVERYONE has the right to fight back. And if you don't, I say, shame on you, you make it hard for the rest of us.

 

 

I'm guessing in your life, you've had some luck regarding crime and fairness. I'm glad about it, someone should.

 

Please hear what I say now, and know it to be true. Some people do not have a moral compass. They do not, ever, feel guilt or remorse over what they've done to someone else. The only remorse they get is when they are caught and hampered from carrying on. The only thing that stops them from doing something hurtful or unlawful is knowing for sure there will be swift and unquestionable punishment that will cause them inconvenience. If they commit some crime and achieve notoriety for it, it's exciting to them! It breathes life into an otherwise kind of boring existence that has no feelings.

 

It is obvious from all the various posts about harassment and griefing that there will be no consequences from it in the game. Other players speaking out is the only small correction that perpetrators might receive, and only a very small percentage of the players in the game will even see it.

 

People who speak out against bad actions are making it safer for YOU.

[akaedis 429]

I think you are going to have to clarify what you are calling an attack, because I believe that as others see it, what you call an attack they see as publicly warning others of possible danger.  Have some of those warnings been rather vocal and outspoken?  Yes, but as long as they are truthful and not slanderous, and have not broken any rules, then they are well within their rights.  If these comments bother you or anyone else, remember that we have been given an ignore option for a reason.

 

Maybe you're not lumping all of the comments against Bruhamoff together as attacks, and you distinguish an "attack" from a "warning",  but that is not the impression you have been giving, so if that is the actual case then I'd suggest taking some time to clarify your position rather than just repeating yourself.  As it stands your posts have come off as portraying yourself as one who holds those who would publicly warn their neighbors of a criminal just as guilty as the criminal himself, and I hope it is clear why others consider this a ridiculous perspective.  If this is not the idea you are trying to convey, then yes some additional clarification is in order.

[Aeszhara 29]

I have the chat logs from both sides/

 

[Karys 77]

Im entirely fine with warning people about other players, Go for it, ill even cheer you on if you give someone a warning about another players trade history. But, Their is a difference between a warning and calling them a shi#face and should go to hell. 

Definitely a sentiment I can agree with.

 

 Im not so good with words, So clarifying/repeating my position in simplistic terms is the best i can do. 

 

Unfortunately, continuous repetition of the same statements when it is clear those statements are not being received or understood has been proven many times over to rarely have any effect in getting one's point across.  You usually have to at least adjust the statement or add something to it that you haven't said before that can better help others understand your intent and what you are trying to say in order to properly convey your message.  This sort of change can be seen in your next comment:

 

What iv been trying to say is, Harassment is in no way acceptable way to act towards anyone. Even if they did commit a crime, Its not a justifiable reason to go and tell them to go to hell and their family should die and your off spring to be run over by a bus(Actual post reference here).

 

Again, I perfectly agree with this.  Your previous posts didn't seem to make much of a distinction as to what sort of response you considered to be "attacks" and therefore unacceptable; this sort of statement makes that much more clear.  I think that the previous ambiguity was giving some the impression that you were against absolutely any negative statement about Bruhamoff or what he had done, and that you wanted the entire topic silenced and ignored.

 

Theirs a difference between self defence and offence, Don't ever mix the two. You should know this, Even if your being attacked by someone, It still doesn't give you the right to beat the life out of the initial attacker, Even in today's society, Self defence is only their for defence. If you break the attackers arm, YOU are no longer being defence, you are playing offence and that's a crime.

 

 

The last part of this is actually false - it is perfectly possible and reasonable to break an attacker's arm in self defense as a means of disabling them and preventing them from causing you any further harm.  Where it changes from defense to offense is if you continue to cause harm to the attacker once they have been disarmed and disabled and are no longer a viable threat.  But up until that point, when the attacker is still in a position to cause you harm, you are justified in inflicting any pain or injury upon them necessary to prevent them from harming you, including broken bones, and in some cases even death.  So no, breaking an attacker's arm in self defense is not a crime; protecting your person or others from violence is not a crime.

 

Well peoples intent may be intended for good, But so far it has done nothing good for the community, In-fact, If we count in how many new accounts were created and said their quitting due to the people who made a big deal out of this, We can say 6 confirmed people quit wurm. & thats excluding bruha & gnome, im not sure what their doing and i honestly don't really care what they do.

 

 

Anyways, All that has happened so far from this incident: Made people quit, Caused people get warning points, mutes and ruined reputations, Rules were explained to some people(like myself). Thats all. No rules changed, And probably wont ever change if another scenario like this appears. About half a dozen threads were created, Giving the staff quite a head ache.

 

 

 

While I don't believe that it is possible to conclude what the net effect of this incident was without access to further information, I think it is disingenuous to imply that the only results were negative.  Gnomegates was properly paid as he should have been.  The community has been made aware of the less than honest actions of one among them, and they are now able to take precautions to avoid future problems.  A hole in the trade mechanics has drawn attention, and as such may get a fix soon which would prevent similar future problems.  Some players have had their faith in the GMs restored now that they have seen the GMs are willing to act to protect them, and consequently players and their accounts were retained (I know of several who previously doubted this, and who were basing a decision to stay or leave upon the GMs' response - after seeing that the incident would not just be ignored, they chose to stay).  Other scammers and potential scammers have seen that they may not be able to get away with as much as they thought, and so future negative acts may have been averted or deterred.  Bruhamoff himself has issued an apology which may very well be sincere, and if so, a former thief may have reformed because of this incident and the aftermath.  The bottom line is that there is a lot of potential positive that has come out of this, as well as the negative.  Largely ignoring one in favor of the other does not give a fair evaluation of the facts, and claiming that "nothing good" has been done for the community is off from the truth.

 

 

All in all, The game is already safe,

 

 

A highly debatable opinion, as many recent discussions here have shown.

 

And it can only get safer as the GM's brain storm on their own, as they are well respected players in-game outside their GM duties.

 

 

If there is room for the game to get "safer", then how is it safe now?

 

Rules won't change by the players,

 

 

I beg to differ; I have seen in this game and others that an online gaming community of players can most definitely influence changes to rules.  In the end, WURM is a business, and the players are customers.  A business should always do what is in its best interest to remain profitable, and sometimes that includes listening to customer feedback and making changes based on that feedback.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Karys

[akaedis 429]

Definitely a sentiment I can agree with.

 

Unfortunately, continuous repetition of the same statements when it is clear those statements are not being received or understood has been proven many times over to rarely have any effect in getting one's point across.  You usually have to at least adjust the statement or add something to it that you haven't said before that can better help others understand your intent and what you are trying to say in order to properly convey your message.  This sort of change can be seen in your next comment:

 

Again, I perfectly agree with this.  Your previous posts didn't seem to make much of a distinction as to what sort of response you considered to be "attacks" and therefore unacceptable; this sort of statement makes that much more clear.  I think that the previous ambiguity was giving some the impression that you were against absolutely any negative statement about Bruhamoff or what he had done, and that you wanted the entire topic silenced and ignored.

-Guess i need to work on how people perceive my words a bit more then

 

The last part of this is actually false - it is perfectly possible and reasonable to break an attacker's arm in self defense as a means of disabling them and preventing them from causing you any further harm.  Where it changes from defense to offense is if you continue to cause harm to the attacker once they have been disarmed and disabled and are no longer a viable threat.  But up until that point, when the attacker is still in a position to cause you harm, you are justified in inflicting any pain or injury upon them necessary to prevent them from harming you, including broken bones, and in some cases even death.  So no, breaking an attacker's arm in self defense is not a crime; protecting your person or others from violence is not a crime.

-Tell that to a judge, He will nod his head at you, then proceed to charge you with assault.

-Yes you are within your right to use almost any means necessary to defend yourself, However, If the target is disabled, You are out of self defence and into offence. and thats where the crime comes in. Anyways i don't want to argue law with anyone here as this could go on for forever here. /end

 

While I don't believe that it is possible to conclude what the net effect of this incident was without access to further information, I think it is disingenuous to imply that the only results were negative.  Gnomegates was properly paid as he should have been.  The community has been made aware of the less than honest actions of one among them, and they are now able to take precautions to avoid future problems.  A hole in the trade mechanics has drawn attention, and as such may get a fix soon which would prevent similar future problems.  Some players have had their faith in the GMs restored now that they have seen the GMs are willing to act to protect them, and consequently players and their accounts were retained (I know of several who previously doubted this, and who were basing a decision to stay or leave upon the GMs' response - after seeing that the incident would not just be ignored, they chose to stay).  Other scammers and potential scammers have seen that they may not be able to get away with as much as they thought, and so future negative acts may have been averted.  Bruhamoff himself has issued an apology which may very well be sincere, and if so, a former thief may have reformed because of this incident and the aftermath.  The bottom line is that there is a lot of potential positive that has come out of this, as well as the negative.  Largely ignoring one in favor of the other does not give a fair evaluation of the facts, and claiming that "nothing good" has been done for the community is off from the truth.

-A vast amount of negative came out of this, Quite more than it should have. some people felt they needed to create more then one topic on the matter, more then several too. This incident had quite a large effect on the community, More then it really should have. Pretty much the whole wurm community was aware that this was a topic of discussion. And all it did for anyone here was mutes, warnings and drama, and whatever else comes with drama. I haven't seen very much potential positive come out of this other then the obvious hole in the trade system. But then again, all the negative tends to drown out any good that comes out of anything. 

Anyways, like the reply above this one, im not really here to discuss this, Soo ill leave it at that. /end

 

A highly debatable opinion, as many recent discussions here have shown.

-It is safe if the player is aware of how the rules work. If one misinterprets them, Even in the slightest it can appear un safe or hazardous.  Atleast, Its safe to those who take the time and effort to protect themselves and their possessions anyways

 

If there is room for the game to get "safer", then how is it safe now?

-Not entirely sure what your asking here... but i think i know what your asking. the game rules are built around enforcing game mechanics to work for the player rather than a rule book. So its actually quite safe in my opinion. If you don't protect it with lets say a deed or a lock, you accept the fact that it isnt safe and can be taken. As more content and protections come in, the game becomes safer

 

I beg to differ; I have seen in this game and others that an online gaming community of players can most definitely influence changes to rules.  In the end, WURM is a business, and the players are customers.  A business should always do what is in its best interest to remain profitable, and sometimes that includes listening to customer feedback and making changes based on that feedback.

-Heh, Wurm isn't like other games. CodeClub(Wurm Online) does what it wants, and we abide. Rolf is dead set on making the game the way he wants it, Whether its profitable or not is out of the question here. Only time he will accept feedback is when its a critical decision that needs feedback, such as the new epic map or the idea of enabling PvP on freedom servers(hehe i kid i kid)

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Theirs a difference between self defence and offence, Don't ever mix the two. You should know this, Even if your being attacked by someone, It still doesn't give you the right to beat the life out of the initial attacker, Even in today's society, Self defence is only their for defence. If you break the attackers arm, YOU are no longer being defence, you are playing offence and that's a crime.

 

 

 

I'm not sure where you live, but where i'm from, if you get a jury with brains, they will understand that you should defend yourself. As far as I'm concerned, I believe you have not only a right, but also an obligation to defend yourself to the extent of your ability, for the sake of people who can't, and for the sake of the people you love.

 

 

 

Well peoples intent may be intended for good, But so far it has done nothing good for the community, In-fact, If we count in how many new accounts were created and said their quitting due to the people who made a big deal out of this, We can say 6 confirmed people quit wurm. & thats excluding bruha & gnome, im not sure what their doing and i honestly don't really care what they do.

 

 

Wait. I don't think I follow this. I'm supposed to believe 6 "brand new" accounts were created from people who never played Wurm, these newbies instantly found their way to the forums, read in the forums that people were speaking out against theft, and then they dramatically announced to the forums that they were now quitting because people disliked theft? Okaaaaay, let's say this happened. Might the actual reason be that they were so stunned that there COULD be a controversy about theft in a PvE game, and they quit while they were ahead?

[Aeszhara 29]

Funny how Yamiluss does his best to avoid having to pubicly answer my questions.

 

Here's the PM he sent where he sort of doesn't answer my questions at all

 

Mind getting both Bruhamoff and Gnomegates to confirm they have sent you the chatlogs? Because i HIGHLY doubt they have.

 

You constantly change your statements.

 

 

 

 

Funny... You first claimed that Gnomegates waited 15 days.... Then it changed to 1 week. And now it's been downsized to a few days? Alot of changes there it seems

 

 

 

 

Again.... You are yet again ignoring the fact that this is not the first case where Bruhamoff had been warned by the staff / nor that this is the first time he's messed with people in a way that's not " Freedom-worthy " I really find it amazing how you keep ignoring these facts though. You should go into politics! 

 

Warning: Wall of text I'll be responding in bold and italian lines.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

RE: You know Aeszhara you love to point out facts and point out errors of peoples ways and continue drama as far as you can take it. You like making personal attacks against those that disagree with you on this forum topic and others.

 

So me seeing and pointing out errors in your statements and version of the truth is now considered a personal attack?

 

If you so much disagree with me on every aspect of this issue and any other issue then state your disagreement but don't make it a form of A kind of personal attack against me or others for having a different opinion then you.

 

 

 

I did not trade with Gnome, I did not have anything to do with this trade agreement between Bruhamoff and Gnome.Your personal attacks against people for disagreeing with you or having a totally different opinion of facts then you is not a crime. Further more last i checked no one declared you king of the forum. Your way off topic the topic not me its accepting his apology or not accepting his apology simple as that!

 

If you mind scrolling back to ... the first page or something... You can see a nice little post from me where i did accept his apology. Soooo.... what's the problem then?

 

If you would like to argue with me, personally berate and attack me, PM me some time ingame on Angar we can go back and fourth all day arguing and belittling each other,doing that here on the forum is not the place. One fact ive never ignored and have been right about all the way through from get go and is why so many of you are upset, is the single fact that the trade was not done in the proper way!

 

I doubt anyone agrees with you on this tiny little fact. I'm personally more concerned with the fact you keep posting / sharing wrong information. Aaaaannndd... tell me again how i'm attacking you? Since when is the forum not the place to discuss posts / replies MADE on the forum itself?

 

Dance around it all you want and others but the trade was not done in the normal fashion end of story! No GM on this forum or in game would dispute me on that fact not even Enki not even Rolf not even the GM who handled the issue would dispute that, it wasn't handled the right way. The trade was not a normal type of trade! Not a safe trade not the way trades would normally be conducted in this game, do you you want to argue that point because your gonna lose that point!

 

Never argued against that with you. I argued against you in the sense that you kept sharing wrong information. Example: Gnomegates waited 15 / 7 / 1-5 ish days to pick up the coins again. Among other things you've blurted out there. If this actually is true.. Then mind pointing to the posts made by both parties where your " evidence " is ? I'd happily agree with you then if i can see it with my own eyes

My errors in what i have said in dates and other subject matter is taken from whats out there, times and so fourth im going based on what both have stated has happened and what the one complete copy of the logs that i have said in the logs and chats ect ect.

 

This line is a bit vague to me..... Anyways would you mind getting Gnome and Bruhamoff to still confirm they both have shared the full chatlogs with you? Because  to me it still seems like you are just making up facts for whatever reason.

 

In a recent email from Gnome as in just hours ago i got his side and whats been posted as well on the fourm. Based on both what he said and Bruhamoff and the logs and its all sum together. There is Bruhamoff story, There is Gnome story, There is the GM story there is also the untold story of the truth thats not been told and somewhere in the middle of it all is the truth, Im sure somewhere the truth exists.

 

Oh wait... Ehrm....So you are saying you have the truth... But then again don't ? Also.... Mind getting Gnomegates / Bruhamoff to confirm? I honestly have ALOT of trouble in believing you. In this line you claim to get your truth from everywhere and nowhere at the same time. 

 

Your sorta missing the point of this topic. He apologized so accept it or don't accept it but move on from it!

 

Again... scroll back to the first page will you?

On a side note why bad mouth me, Why run your mouth against me and attack me on the forum?

 

Have i done that? Please point me to where i've bad mouthed you / attacked you on the forums. I'd happily apologize for anything that shows me attacking / bad mouthing you. On the other hand. I've done nothing else but try and point you on your twisted stories. Which you've happily ignored up until now.

 

Did i screw you on a trade? Did i pop somewhere on a forum post and become irate towards you? I stayed on topic. You don't care for me don't like em good for you. Don;t trade with me, Don't put your villagers up to selling to me. Don't log into an alt to do business with me.If you feel so personally inclined to come after me then do bother doing business with me.

 

That's goes for you Aeris and a few others that have acted like you!I like you am entitled to speak my mind freely on the forum and put my own two cents, if some you don't like it, too bad!

 

No-one has a problem with you speaking your mind freely on the forums. I personally have a problem that you keep cramming a different story down people's throats. You are fully allowed to speak your mind. In that sense i do also hope you allow other people to point you on inconsistencies and lies in your posts. Which you've happily either ignored... Or attacked the poster via PM's. As evident to what i'm posting now.

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[Oldwolf 17]

FIRST he/she is bitching at everyone who didn't swallowed the shallow fake-excuse from his/her little friend, and THEN he/she is crying in PMs that  he/she get attacked?

Hypocrites at its finest, not that i wonder about that.

It takes a certain kind of people to act as lawyers of repeater-scammers and -griefers, a gaming forum is not much different form the real world in that case.

 

 

 

 

[Elwood2 352]

Is this drama fest not over yet?...

 

*grabs popcorn*

[Klaa 4,872]

Is this drama fest not over yet?...

 

*grabs popcorn*

[Countess 68]

It is probably time to end this whole matter now. Lots of people could probably go on forever about this, but that wasn't the point of this post. This is becoming a personal war of the community, while it was supposed to be an apology to exactly them, you, and every single person reading this. I think it is time to draw a line, and either accept his apology or not. Nobody is asking anybody to forgive and forget, but for those who can, that is probably a fair way to go about it. We all mess up sometimes, but few of us actually turn around and face the community by apologizing. I think we should respect that a little bit better and stop this entire rant. Thank you.

[Hailene 362]

I'm guessing since the OP hasn't responded at all (to my knowledge) in this thread  beyond his OP...it's probably a sack of crap.

 

But that's just me.

[Mordraug 2,542]

He threw in a couple snarky replies but they got deleted along with some of our snarky replies to the snarky replies.... yo.

[Aeszhara 29]

He also created a " I'm leaving Wurm " topic 2-3 days ago. With a few reasons as to why. Can't remember exactly what was in it 

 

But that topic vanished as well. Along with quite a bit of his posts that he made previously <.< 

 

Shomething shmells fishy...

[Ayes 3,715]

It is probably time to end this whole matter now. Lots of people could probably go on forever about this, but that wasn't the point of this post......

.....I think we should respect that a little bit better and stop this entire rant.

 

The Original Poster can always request that this thread be locked, as can anyone else who starts their own post. The fact that they have not is interesting, in a way. Until that time it will meander on into the distant horizon of forgetfulness, unless it becomes intolerable to the Mods and then meet its untimely death.

 

Happy Trails

=Ayes=

[akaedis 429]

My shrimpiie click sense is tingling.

[Bruhamoff 34]

I just hope all of this drama ends in something positive, hint hint writs for boats/carts/ or even crates if we have to. Maybe even a document that you sign saying you AGREE to this trade agreement, like in bulk dealings and what not.

Then hopefully people will stop hating me and trade with me again

I can't keep track as to how many people have tried to take advantage of me on my knarrs this entire trip. At least Yamuliss gave me a fair deal on the knarr he bought.

 

 And Thank you Yamuliss, for being 1 of 2 who has stood by me publicly.

 

We finally got our referrals bought so we will stick around, I just won't be talking to many people anymore. True colors have shown in everybody these past few weeks, for those who made themselves involved in the situation

 

( this has been solved a while ago, this has been an apology to the community to END the bickering. So far Gnomegates hasn't accepted it yet so I havn't decided to close the thread until he does, even if it takes years. )

 

I do hope you see this apology Gnomegates, I understand how you felt in your situation. I was there before. I didn't view it as a scam when I did it, and I did feel instantly guilty for doing it, I was sailing to put it back but you logged in and I got scared, which is why I denied stealing your coins. I didn't mean for it to go this far and I hope all of this granted you many many customers. You deserve them more than me. I feel like with everything going in your favor, that you don't care, and I am probably right on that, but I do hope you somehow find a way to forgive me.

 

Thank you,

Edited April 19, 2015 by Bruhamoff