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Toecutter

Name and shame?

105 posts in this topic

Noone is saying his rep should be restored.  Chat has been of nothing but him lately.  Maybe a question in between breaths but that is about it.  I hope he never sells those knarrs but that doesn't mean that is all I want to hear about.  Once someone says he isn't to be trusted it should be dropped.  Not another 2 hour conversation about it.  Anyone thinking of buying the knarr knows not to trust him from the one comment.


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http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/1996-forum-rules/

Trolling

Definition: Inflammatory or off-topic messages intended to provoke other members into a desired emotional response or to otherwise disrupt the topic.

A ) You may not post with the intention of negatively provoking other members.

- If you must leave criticism, consider your post carefully and word it constructively.

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/2126-chat-rules/

1) You may not purposely disrupt chat in any way or by using such actions as excessive trolling or derailing.

•Trolling / Troll - Is defined as where a user posts inflammatory, or off-topic messages intended to provoke other users into a desired emotional response.

•Excessive is defined as more than one instance in a short period of time, or in such a way to be annoying to most players.

•Do not post with the sole intent of upsetting other players.

•Do not post with the intent of causing unrest.

this is what you are doing every time you derail a topic on the forums and on global chat . the said player had paid his debt and was punished for what he did . let it go already making more forum topic on the matter will get you no place

ok explain this then http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/117723-your-reputation/?

 

With my security intact that left me with one inescapable conclusion.  THERE IS NO SUCH RULE!

 

How about that.  There is no name and shame rule.  So what's the big galifumpugus?

 

After comparing notes with my other mentalities and team members it has become clear that over time, a certain few people have been propagating myths about rules, and interpreting the rules in unintended ways for their benefit. Specifically the part where we as moderators demanded that any accusations of exploits be brought to us and not aired publicly.  There was a time when these accusations ran rampant and 99% of the time they were false.  This also included accusations against moderation team members as false accusations undermine our efforts to help.  Never did we intend or state that we would follow you and remove any negative statements made about you.

 

Your reputation is valuable.  Your reputation is your responsibility.  Your reputation is your own!

 

We will not protect you from your own actions.  If you cross someone and they have something negative to say about you, then you earned it on your own merit.  It is in your hands to protect, preserve, improve, defend, or destroy your reputation.

 

The main thing we will not tolerate is racism, sexism and the ilk.

 

So take this message to heart and remember that you alone control your reputation.  We can not and will not protect you from the social elements.

 

Thank you,

Enki (Head Game Master)

Edited by Toecutter

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In my case, the scumbag thief had the chance to give me back the silvers. I gave him that chance in game before I came here to the forums, HE refused to make things right, so I had no other options. I gave him every way out and to make things right, he refused. Had he done that, I would never had made the post I did, his rep would be intact and life would go on, but HE made a decision to not make things right. If a noob player does something and refuses to make it right after it being pointed out that what he did was wrong, then yes, run him out of the game, because the game is full enough of people that are scumbags.

 

I understand you took all those steps to resolve the situation, that is refreshing to hear.  But some people don't even do that.  When I first started Wurm, I was trapped between a steep rockface and shore line because I was KOS'd.  

 

Why? I assume it's because I chopped trees slightly outside of his perimeter.  I don't know who this person was, or if that was their reasoning for my KOS (they never tried to contact me), all I know is that I could either try to renavigate through this huge deed with many spirit templars or try to swim further than my stamina would allow to go someplace safer.  I was extremely frustrated, and was eventually helped by a friendly player.

 

I realize that you guys want to see him hurt, yes, but I'm more concerned about the people who aren't him who may fall through the cracks in the name of stopping the trolling and griefing.  Do what you must to secure your belongings, that's fine, block him on the forums, that's fine too, feel free to warn people in your local if he is around, that's being a good neighbour.  Just please don't feel the need to continue to remind people who already know about the guy and what has happened.

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I understand you took all those steps to resolve the situation, that is refreshing to hear.  But some people don't even do that.  When I first started Wurm, I was trapped between a steep rockface and shore line because I was KOS'd.  

 

Why? I assume it's because I chopped trees slightly outside of his perimeter.  I don't know who this person was, or if that was their reasoning for my KOS (they never tried to contact me), all I know is that I could either try to renavigate through this huge deed with many spirit templars or try to swim further than my stamina would allow to go someplace safer.  I was extremely frustrated, and was eventually helped by a friendly player.

 

I realize that you guys want to see him hurt, yes, but I'm more concerned about the people who aren't him who may fall through the cracks in the name of stopping the trolling and griefing.  Do what you must to secure your belongings, that's fine, block him on the forums, that's fine too, feel free to warn people in your local if he is around, that's being a good neighbour.  Just please don't feel the need to continue to remind people who already know about the guy and what has happened.

there were people today that did not know about him .And i don't want to see him hurt at all  i want him to  know  what he did was wrong and will effect him  ingame now

Edited by Toecutter

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Noone is saying his rep should be restored.  Chat has been of nothing but him lately.  Maybe a question in between breaths but that is about it.  I hope he never sells those knarrs but that doesn't mean that is all I want to hear about.  Once someone says he isn't to be trusted it should be dropped.  Not another 2 hour conversation about it.  Anyone thinking of buying the knarr knows not to trust him from the one comment.

ahh. i had something else typed up instead. i meant to add that i havent been on freedom in a while so idk what gl chat is talking about. i'm mostly referring to the wts threads he's made(which should be reported as spam, since he made 4 of them, but thats beside the point heh). but i mean, 1 warning post in each wts/wtb thread made by him is enough.

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Aparently 1 was too many, because he was allowed to create MORE threads after the first four spam threads. 


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Aparently 1 was too many, because he was allowed to create MORE threads after the first four spam threads. 

yea i know. i really loved how you were attacked each time for that 1 buyers beware post, and you didnt even reply back! i tried helpin out, but apparently some people just don't care enough.

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by mikeyyaya removing the 1 warning  he is defending the person's rep

 

after the warning post war made anything after that is derailing

 

when this guy steal's someone else stuff and give them 1 days of dealing with gm ca cm fm (or how ever long)

becuz people could not be warned... is mikeyyaya going to take responsibly for his failed inaction?

no he will just return what was stolen.

stealing from someone is not only  about what is lost its about the disrespect and the lose of trust in ones own well being..

 

stuff like this is hurting wurm more then anything. people on freedom play there so they don't gotta worry about getting stuff taken.

 

 

its sad to say but soon as another game hits on the building and grid of of wurm freedom sever wurm will lose..

this World (game) is a great id. but its protecter's  are failing from inaction.. and openness  people of a town even a city want to know whats going when they ask. and when they can not ask anymore is when everything starts to fail..

 

 

Law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Edited by icbash

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You do have a point, but how far does it go, how long do the GM's let it go, how bad does it get?

 

Here's an example of how bad:

 

wurm.20141104.0133_1_zps1y3jijdk.jpg

 

This was once flat beautiful land right next to my deed. It was dug down from the edge of the perimeter because the instigator felt I took too long to give him permission to mine under my deeds again. Although macroing was involved, it still took longer to dig this (and create several mini-mines that would keep the hole from being refilled), than the thread naming the thief of FIVE knarrs was allowed to exist. What I'm saying is, there should be equity. Either stop griefing and harassment immediately on PvE, or let the threads who name the griefers go on as long as they are allowed to go on griefing, and as long as it took the stolen item to be created.

 

My preference is, stop the griefing and theft, and thereby no one will ever have to talk about it.

Edited by LorraineJ
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Hey Toecutter,

 

If this is the case concerning me, I wanted to correct something you said......The Thief was NOT forced to return my silvers, the GM's gave me the option of my knarrs or silvers returned, then the GM"s returned the silvers. The thief had nothing to do with the returning of the stolen property. As far as rest of the name and shame, I'm not sure if it is only forum post that are allowed, or if in game as well.

The thief in chat claimed his personal GM team gave him 3 options, return silver, return boats, permaban.  He said he chose to return the silver.  Either way once a crime is committed restitution is only a fraction of the punishment, returning the money does not void the crime. 

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Here's an example of how bad:

 

wurm.20141104.0133_1_zps1y3jijdk.jpg

 

This was once flat beautiful land right next to my deed. It was dug down from the edge of the perimeter because the instigator felt I took too long to give him permission to mine under my deeds again. Although macroing was involved, it still took longer to dig this (and create several mini-mines that would keep the hole from being refilled), than the thread naming the theif of FIVE knarrs was allowed to exist. What I'm saying is, there should be equity. Either stop griefing and harassment immediately on PvE, or let the threads who name the griefers go on as long as they are allowed to go on griefing, and as long as it took the stolen item to be created.

 

My preference is, stop the griefing and theft, and thereby no one will ever have to talk about it.

That was bad!!!

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That was bad!!!

 

And that was a small part of it. It went on almost two months.

 

What's striking me in this thread is everyone is worrying about the innocent or newbie being harmed. I have never seen a name and shame thread about a person on their first offense. It's always a serial thief/griefer, who is identified without question as being the perpetrator, AND when asked about it, they metaphorically flip the bird to the person confronting them. They add insult to injury. No one would dare to say, Hey, there's this newbie, I'm almost positive it was him, he cut trees in my perimeter. Let's all berate him until he's so ashamed that he quits. The rest of the community would skin that kind of action alive. A one minute naming and shaming doesn't cut it. Sometimes I'm not in the game and I'd miss it. Sometimes I don't read the forum for weeks. Same with other people. People who steal and grief and then say F- you after they do it, there's no conscience involved. Stop worrying about their poor feelings. They have none.

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I've started to put people on ignore because I'm tired of repeatedly seeing the same stuff posted continuously. It is also far from warning about a known thief when you start name calling and bringing it up for EVERY sentence someone says about anything mildly related. I would consider that harassment. So far 4 people have made it to my ignore list and yet none of them is the bad guy himself, oddly enough.


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The difference between the newbie and these career thieves is intent. The new player only intends to somehow succeed in this game and may not be aware of the social structure in a given locale. The serial griefer or career thief has a completely different motive... one that includes the detriment of another [often times any other] player. A player who intentionally uses certain game mechanics to cheat another is [in my opinion] a prime candidate for a 30-day ban or more for repeated issues.

As was stated earlier, restitution is only part of the remedy where this kind of intent is present. Something like this will very likely happen again otherwise.

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We know what he did, we don't like it. That does not mean he needs to be hounded.


Find the balance folks. ;)


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I've started to put people on ignore because I'm tired of repeatedly seeing the same stuff posted continuously. It is also far from warning about a known thief when you start name calling and bringing it up for EVERY sentence someone says about anything mildly related. I would consider that harassment. So far 4 people have made it to my ignore list and yet none of them is the bad guy himself, oddly enough.

 

1. I hope I'm on the list.

2. I wonder what you've done about the bad guy. I know you haven't KoSed him, because you can't. It will be weeks before the people in the immediate vicinity of the theft will all be able to KoS him, because a person can only get one KoS a day. From any deed anywhere.

3. People keep bringing it up because they WANT THE SITUATION TO CHANGE. How long are all of us on PvE saying we don't want grief, we don't want theft. This is like infection seeping out of a wound that is never let to heal. We don't want it.

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I heard Emoo drank the last Foster's.

Not that anyone is complaining for him taking the bullet. I mean seriously... Yuck.

Edited by Klaa
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Don't coddle perpetrators; if they do something wretched, throw them to the wolves.  Anti bullying zombies/social justice warriors are ruining the Earth.


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Honestly, staff, let mob justice do its thing since repeat offenders, very well known and documented ones keep roaming "warned" over and over, and every "warning" is yet another player potentially quitting with all their revenue and sometimes a few friends... 


 


How about letting us clean the server for y'all since for some reason it's so hard to banhammer the most serious offenders.


 


Still think it's ridiculous that griefing goes "warned" over and over but pity the person that retaliates after not being protected by the so-called "rules", because retaliation has clear *intent* while the original griefing "needs to be studied and analyzed and handled with great care".


 


Sheesh.


 


Days like today buyer's remorse sinks in heavy over any silver i've bought in Wurm.


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Maybe, just maybe, there was a different line crossed recently. A line in which the players on PvE are sick to death of PvE being mini PvP without killing and the erosion of rules that stop it. You took away the CoC. You took away legal enclosures. What did you expect? Tea parties and community picnics? You unleashed anarchy. This is what happens in a society with no rules. And no vigilante justice. This would not happen on PvP. They would go kill him, erase his deed, and be done.


Edited by Audrel
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Uhhh... What did I miss?

 

Code of Conduct :-)

 

The spell is just fine!

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And that was a small part of it. It went on almost two months.

 

What's striking me in this thread is everyone is worrying about the innocent or newbie being harmed. I have never seen a name and shame thread about a person on their first offense. It's always a serial thief/griefer, who is identified without question as being the perpetrator, AND when asked about it, they metaphorically flip the bird to the person confronting them. They add insult to injury. No one would dare to say, Hey, there's this newbie, I'm almost positive it was him, he cut trees in my perimeter. Let's all berate him until he's so ashamed that he quits. The rest of the community would skin that kind of action alive. A one minute naming and shaming doesn't cut it. Sometimes I'm not in the game and I'd miss it. Sometimes I don't read the forum for weeks. Same with other people. People who steal and grief and then say F- you after they do it, there's no conscience involved. Stop worrying about their poor feelings. They have none.

 

In bold : Personal experience does not mean it doesn't happen.

In italics : Some slights are imagined/portrayed as larger than they appear. It actually does happen. I myself was one of those newbies.

 

The difference between the newbie and these career thieves is intent. The new player only intends to somehow succeed in this game and may not be aware of the social structure in a given locale. The serial griefer or career thief has a completely different motive... one that includes the detriment of another [often times any other] player. A player who intentionally uses certain game mechanics to cheat another is [in my opinion] a prime candidate for a 30-day ban or more for repeated issues.

As was stated earlier, restitution is only part of the remedy where this kind of intent is present. Something like this will very likely happen again otherwise.

 

My opinion, as one of the people who joined this game following every rule I'd read when I started, and getting 'name/shamed' in some staff member's personal alliance forums, and having 7 months of daily harassment over it...(I dug some dirt, in a game about digging dirt....25+ tiles from any deed..and when they threatened to kill me I chuckled about it and kept digging because I wasn't hurting them/nor breaking any game rules..and had told them I was just picking up a few dirts here or there, and not wrecking the landscape...only to be told later that they'd made some silly old 'rule' they'd agreed upon in that area about not doing anything within 50+ tiles of someone's deed...an unspoken/unwritten rule which in my opinion was made up as a way to grief me...)...gives me a very unique perspective on this matter.

 

I can personally see both sides of this argument. I'm willing to 'let bygones be bygones' with some folks. But a lot of the folks around here somehow seem to think they own everything and have a right to whatever is even remotely near them. You should somehow 'have the fear of whatever deity you believe in' put in you for trespassing in any manner/matter.

 

The corruption that is inherent in this current system, has reared it's ugly face many times. I chat with all kinds of people on here, and have read some pretty bad stories. I have personal logs showing the different forms of it also, but have no way to bring them to the 'proper' people (As the head GM himself was part of the fiasco, and kept blocking my attempts to take it to someone who'd do something. So after 11 support tickets, I eventually just gave up and left the game for 3 months in exasperation/with no intention of coming back. The only reason I'm even back, is because of my own inherent stubbornness, and the fact that I was able to earn my way enough to pick up and move. I've since made connections here or there in the game, and talked with many a decent folk on here, who have restored some of my faith in the people/game, and allowed me to become at least a small part of the community...if only from a deed in a dead zone/from 'afar'.)...because there doesn't seem to be any 'checks and balances' in this current system. Who moderates the moderators? The age-old question. The 'chain of command' only goes so far, and then someone tries to block any action. I was actually threatened with removal from the game for 'making up conspiracy theories' by the head GM...when the moderators wouldn't action any of the people for any of the rule-breaking things I pointed out. Proceeded to tell me he'd do something, and then just closed out my support ticket. How is that dealing with the issue?

 

There seems to be a lot of 'let's stick our heads in the sand and ignore that it's happening and maybe it'll go away'. There was a person who suggested forming some kind of group that looks into situations where people claim there is abuse of power...and I personally agree with them.

 

Should we all just 'forget and move on' because this person was forced to hand over ill-gotten gains? I don't think so, because it's going to happen again. And again. And again. Fix some of the lax rules. Investigate the claims of abuse. Or just stick with the status quo, and eventually hit that iceberg and follow the Titanic. It's your choice, but I would hope you would do something instead of losing paying players over idiotic stuff like this.

 

I just kinda 'laugh' to myself every time I hear the term 'community' thrown around on this game. It's more like an organized mob. Whoever shouts the loudest is heard. Maybe start listening to some of the smaller voices...

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 Some slights are imagined/portrayed as larger than they appear. It actually does happen. I myself was one of those newbies.

 

I know that there can be a lot of local bullying. I've just never seen PvE naming and shaming in the FORUMS on really innocent folks.

 

The rest of what you said, I believe every word.

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