Name and shame?

[Audrel 2,223]

<snip> Fix some of the lax rules <snip>

 

Just make some rules...

[Belrindor 663]

Here's an example of how bad:

 

 

This was once flat beautiful land right next to my deed. It was dug down from the edge of the perimeter because the instigator felt I took too long to give him permission to mine under my deeds again. Although macroing was involved, it still took longer to dig this (and create several mini-mines that would keep the hole from being refilled), than the thread naming the thief of FIVE knarrs was allowed to exist. What I'm saying is, there should be equity. Either stop griefing and harassment immediately on PvE, or let the threads who name the griefers go on as long as they are allowed to go on griefing, and as long as it took the stolen item to be created.

 

My preference is, stop the griefing and theft, and thereby no one will ever have to talk about it.

Well, you know, they weren't breaking any rules.

 

Now if they'd been 'trolling' (and anything can and has been classified as 'trolling'), then WHAM! That would have gotten attention ASAP.

 

But since they weren't trolling and were just obliterating your perimeter without due cause, then they weren't breaking any rules... sorry.

[Old_Lando 178]

I have to disagree with this. Harassment is allowed in the game, costly and nasty destruction, and threats and endless bullying. How can it be that behavior like that is fine, but pointing out theft, for example, is not? Until serial harassment and bullying is stopped in the game, I think threads pointing out theft should be allowed to go on for months, as the in-game harassment is allowed to continue.

Harassment and griefing is not allowed in the game. If you feel you are being harassed and bullied file a support ticket and get the GMs to look. 

[Belrindor 663]

Maybe, just maybe, there was a different line crossed recently. A line in which the players on PvE are sick to death of PvE being mini PvP without killing and the erosion of rules that stop it. You took away the CoC. You took away legal enclosures. What did you expect? Tea parties and community picnics? You unleashed anarchy. This is what happens in a society with no rules. And no vigilante justice. This would not happen on PvP. They would go kill him, erase his deed, and be done.

@GMs: I do think a lot of peeps in the PVE servers have reached a bit of a fulcrum point in regards to the whole griefing thing. Just something to be mindful of, perhaps... ye know... instead of pooh-poohing.

 

Though, recently, I'd say ye folks are doing a MUCH better job all in all in that regard. Props where props are due, after all.

 

Edited for clarification.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Belrindor

[RomaN 890]

I learned the hard way that it's best not to get involved in any naming and shaming at all. Let the mods handle it and leave it there.

[akaedis 429]

Harassment and griefing is not allowed in the game. If you feel you are being harassed and bullied file a support ticket and get the GMs to look. 

Or on the forums.

[akaedis 429]

Uhhh... What did I miss?

 

What you missed was the code of conduct, Basically the players guide rule book. It was removed and replaced with the Game Rules. Which is a far better solution, The CoC Basically could be used to remove your neighbours deed and items because you felt like it essentially. Which lead to more conflicts and problems then solving. So they took it out, Put in Game Rules, Vague as hell but work-sometimes. They enforce game play mechanics rather than "This guy placed a deed over my off-deed farm! Ban him!". I do miss the CoC personally, Mainly because of the power it gave us, But then again, That power can do a 180 and backfire. This way theirs no power, Well your power is your deed really... 

[Mordraug 2,542]

Harassment and griefing is not allowed in the game. If you feel you are being harassed and bullied file a support ticket and get the GMs to look. 

 

 

Here's an example of how bad:

 

 

This was once flat beautiful land right next to my deed. It was dug down from the edge of the perimeter because the instigator felt I took too long to give him permission to mine under my deeds again. Although macroing was involved, it still took longer to dig this (and create several mini-mines that would keep the hole from being refilled), than the thread naming the thief of FIVE knarrs was allowed to exist. What I'm saying is, there should be equity. Either stop griefing and harassment immediately on PvE, or let the threads who name the griefers go on as long as they are allowed to go on griefing, and as long as it took the stolen item to be created.

 

My preference is, stop the griefing and theft, and thereby no one will ever have to talk about it.

[Belrindor 663]

@LorraineJ So was the above ever 'resolved' in any fashion, or did the griefer finally get bored and just move on? Did you create a ticket? If so, what was the response?

[Mordraug 2,542]

I'm gonna repeat my little challenge to CodeClub:

 

Grab all the tickets marked as "griefing" and theft-related ones.

 

See how many of those players accused are still around, see how many of those players have multiple griefing/thieving tickets, then see how many of the authors of said tickets are still playing.

 

Then do the math, see how many thousands of euros a month have stopped coming into Wurm's bank account as a result of said idiots.

 

If it turns out that idiots' actions have somehow increased Wurm's revenues, I'll STFU and leave.

 

In the meantime, I reserve the right to antagonize known griefers/thieves at every corner and KoS them on highway if I have to based on the ruling that people are responsible for their own reputation.  If one of those idiots reports me, I'll take my multiple warnings and carry on like nothing, right?

[LorraineJ 1,099]

@LorraineJ So was the above ever 'resolved' in any fashion, or did the griefer finally get bored and just move on? Did you create a ticket? If so, what was the response?

 

IDK to what length I can tell the story, as we're not supposed to question choices made, but that digging happend during an open ticket.

 

I think actions that feel like grief can happen on accident, or in a fit of pique by both parties. That's life. But to allow people to keep at it past one action, to allow an individual or individuals to continue to target someone again and again, OR, to allow griefer types to travel about with the intent of disturbing various peoples' enjoyment of the game - that's incomprehensible to me. I know absolutely it costs the game income, and it creates a negative vibe to the game. It's part of why I get irritated when I see moderators running to the defense of serial bullies/thieves, when meanwhile a bullying attitude is allowed to flourish in the actual game play. Sometimes I read reports here of senseless nasty behavior, and I PM the poster to see who it was and find out that, Oh, he was in my area a couple of months ago griefing us. And those in authority knew exactly who it was and there was no action then, and so it goes, on and on.

Edited April 13, 2015 by LorraineJ

[Cecci 1,609]

Lorrainej's situation was awful and the guy is still in the area.  

 

edit: afaik

Edited April 13, 2015 by Cecci

[Toecutter 331]

Yeah it's disgraceful and the sympathizes continue to tell us they are sick of a few sentences in chat ,well walk a mile in Lorraine J's shoes i bet most of you would have left the game by now.Credit to you Lorraine j you are one tough cookie and i am glad a person and player like you is still in Wurm playing and standing up to the  Grubs.

[Audrel 2,223]

Our recent event is still unfixed. The doer was supposed to fix it. He didn't.

 

Decisions are decisions. The doer actually following them is another matter. The doer being ordered to make it right but the fact they did it on an alt and never logged that alt back in after the ruling means that ultimately nothing at all gets done. The main enjoys the spoils, the alt vanishes in 30 days. Case closed.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Audrel

[Belrindor 663]

Our recent event is still unfixed. The doer was supposed to fix it. He didn't.

 

Decisions are decisions. The doer actually following them is another matter. The doer being ordered to make it right but the fact they did it on an alt and never logged that alt back in after the ruling means that ultimately nothing at all gets done. The main enjoys the spoils, the alt vanishes in 30 days. Case closed.

Maybe it's time to hold the main accountable...

[LorraineJ 1,099]

Our recent event is still unfixed. The doer was supposed to fix it. He didn't.

 

The person who dug that giant hole also griefed a three-lane highway by cutting down the oaks that lined both sides, and digging up the pavement and making giant ditches on both sides. He avoided a ban by saying he'd go to a different server. Only he never did.

 

Adding visual aids. This was a forest, with no strip-mined dirt.

 

 

Edited April 14, 2015 by LorraineJ

[Belrindor 663]

The person who dug that giant hole also griefed a three-lane highway by cutting down the oaks that lined both sides, and digging up the pavement and making giant ditches on both sides. He avoided a ban by saying he'd go to a different server. Only he never did.

Then open up a new ticket and report it. The more eyeballs it gets, the more likely someone'll do their job.

 

Especially when highways are concerned. They love highways. Probably one of the very few ways to actually get banned in this game is to mess with a highway.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Belrindor

[Mordraug 2,542]

So who's the guy?   Seems like he would like to play.

[Belrindor 663]

Above and beyond all...

 

1.) Report these things. If a resolution was reached and not abided by, then re-report it. The mains must be held accountable. Easy to do with IP addresses. You can't make an alt forum account just to troll people. The main will be held accountable. Needs to be the same in game. You can't create an alt account just to grief people. The mains MUST be held accountable.

2.) Make it public. The more eyeballs that are on this, the less chance this has of slinking away quietly, and some actual resolution being made.

 

As I said earlier, it's reached a fulcrum point. All the folks I talk to are sick and tired of the griefing. Now to be fair the GMs do what they can within the structure. That's not their fault. The craptastic structure needs to change to give them more power to actually punish these fools who commit the same atrocities over and over again, and keep avoiding punishment.

 

History has shown that these people don't actually learn a lesson. They just go do it elsewhere. All the while laughing soundly at the people who they think were 'dumb' enough to let them off the hook.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Belrindor

[LorraineJ 1,099]

I'm gonna repeat my little challenge to CodeClub:

 

Grab all the tickets marked as "griefing" and theft-related ones.

 

See how many of those players accused are still around, see how many of those players have multiple griefing/thieving tickets, then see how many of the authors of said tickets are still playing.

 

Then do the math, see how many thousands of euros a month have stopped coming into Wurm's bank account as a result of said idiots.

 

The only problem with this is, a lot of times people don't make tickets. They quit immediately, or confrontation makes them nervous so they just bear with it, or move. Three people near me chose to just quit, when there was the giant spree-griefing the day that the enclosure rule changed. The same person who was chronicled on here recently for closing up a tunnel, I forget the whole story, he and his friends ran through the area near me breaking into and stealing and killing anything they could find. This gracious husband and wife couple, and the wife's sister, just stopped playing about two days after their wagon was stolen and their bison taken and set free. They were fairly new and hadn't yet learned to play as if every single thing they made was up for theft. They had been living on a newbie-friendly deed until that mayor too left from griefing.

 

I had a hell horse off-deed to avoid the templar so that was killed. And I had one pen I couldn't get all the way on deed because of another neighbor who created a 28-square perimeter and paid a year's upkeep and rage-quit from griefing, that perimeter keeps me from being able to squeeze those couple of squares on deed. So that pen piece that was off-deed was bashed and the horses killed. I did make a ticket, but nothing was done.

 

The cost of the theft, griefing, and harassment can't be fully measured.

[Mordraug 2,542]

 

The cost of the theft, griefing, and harassment can't be fully measured.

 

Absolutely agreed, but even with heavily deflated figures resulting from my ikkle challenge, it can't be a small number.

 

So far it feels more like Rolf is either trying to cut down on his taxes by reporting losses, or is trying to get rid of PvE via the griefers.

 

Griefers and thieves get "warned" over and over and over and over and over and over, legit players face serious consequences the minute we decide to apply some mob justice because "staff has handled it" ... 

 

HANDLED WHAT EXACTLY?  With what straight face are we told, to use the latest public example, that Bruhamoff was "punished" when he's selling knarrs a couple of days later?

 

Jabash hasn't fixed the perimeters he dug up as instructed, as someone said, he'll just switch to another alt and end of story.

 

Lorraine's pal is clearly enjoying his player privileges at the expense of others'.

 

Retaliation against a griefer that didnt' get disciplined is almost guaranteed discipline because suddenly "it's obvious intent to cause distress on another player".  OF COURSE THAT'S THE INTENTION, THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF RETALIATION.

 

Anyhoo *lights a smoke and takes a deep breath* ... since simple logic isn't waking CodeClub up, maybe the financials will... then again, not expecting much at this point apart from maybe a new rule against raising more than one ticket a year against a person or some such nonsense.

 

Day Wurm stops being the only one of its kind it's basically gone because of crap like this.

 

So...what IS the name of your diggy pal.  Technically, if I go and collect me a few crates of dirt from his perimeter should be fine as it's nothing personal, and nothing he considers to be wrongdoing so no reason for him to submit a ticket once I'm done......  Coords would be nice too if you got them.

 

Worst that can happen is I have to promise to move to another server, at which point I'll sail back with my crates to Release eh.

[LorraineJ 1,099]

 

So...what IS the name of your diggy pal. 

 

Names, pix, logs, etc. are forthcoming if any of them start up again. For now they content themselves with KoS and blocking some roads, and being rude whenever possible. Except for seeing the mess, and having longer trips around, I aim not to think of it all, but when I see statements like "Harassment is not allowed in the game," or I see censorship and moderation defense for the type of people who aim to make others miserable, then it's like.... Slowly I turned....  It's dishonest. It's not healthy to the game.

[demondan 1,865]

Never forgive never forget should not be tolerated in this community.

[Belrindor 663]

Here's an idea. A monument to the sins of the griefers. That is, an actual monument.

 

The idea would be to dig the perimeters of every known griefer, current and past who still plays the game to rock. (Think what epic does here when they want to obliterate a deed), then haul that dirt back to a single server, and pile it up and up and up and up. At the end of this, put a colossus on the top. I can guarantee it'll be the largest player made and the tallest colossus anywhere in the game.

[Kitsuine 41]

theyd just come grief it.