How can we get more people to play Wurm Online? [DEVS READ]

[Belrindor 663]

Yeeeeah we got good clear images of the Xanadu map and the chance to discuss the layout and subsequent modifications to the map over 3 threads in a row before the server was launched ................................. of course we did.

Hey, it's a step in the right direction. Let's not discourage this, in that regard.

 

Perhaps this will be the standard going forward, eh?

[Marshlander 188]

Yeeeeah we got good clear images of the Xanadu map and the chance to discuss the layout and subsequent modifications to the map over 3 threads in a row before the server was launched ................................. of course we did.

Two totally unrelated occasions. Before Xanadu came out, we were complaining about not needing another server and worried about whether and how P&R would get connected. Most people didn't want or need another server rather than talk about the specifics of the geography. Although that criticism still existed, I don't think people deemed the map unfit for the purpose of land-grabbing and lagging out per se.

 

In the Elevation case, an existing map with existing deeds and players having invested hundreds of hours into building there gets replaced with something they better like if CC wants to see their revenue from Epic PvP continue. Also, the kingdom vs kingdom PvP setting obviously raises the bar for requirements to map balancing to be fit for purpose.

[Dairuka 888]

Any suggestion in this thread that doesn't involve the word, "advertising" will never have the same effect as advertising would. Ask any app store developer with a successful business model revolving around replacing non-paying players as content for monetary whales. People can't play what they do not know exists. People won't retry something they think is dead in the water.

 

My guess is, Wurm is intentionally staying small for creative control purposes.

 

Now if you'll excuse me:

 

http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/articles/marketing-your-indie-game-the-single-most-important-thing-that-no-one-knows-how-to-do--gamedev-7157

 

http://www.pixelprospector.com/the-big-list-of-indie-game-marketing/

Edited April 15, 2015 by Dairuka

[Mishia 74]

Make mobs stay off mountian...uniques out of caves (to stop trapping)...boats going through a cave...wagons/carts desync...random falling through cave floors..getiing HUNTED on a freedom server serves no purpose...it goes on and on and on.

 

Maybe Rolf and co. could do a lets play of Wurm

Edited April 15, 2015 by Mishia

[Warlander 2,730]

The biggest problems IMO:

• Wurm is PvE-oriented game, but most dev focus is going to PvP anyway
• PvE don't have any unique features (related to above)
• Almost no "break time" actions (actions to do when you want to do something else than main activities)
• Interface is rather bad for modern times
• A lot of bugs, including some which should be fixed ASAP and are in-game since years
• A lot of stuff which could be added very quickly, but would be really helpful (most of them related to GUI)
• Almost no direct dev communication (this kind of communication is critical in case of small indie teams, but some larger companies who care about client have it as well)

[Eyesgood 2,121]

There's also a plethora of things that people think are wrong, but eh.. it's difficult to say what things are actually wrong. Often it's just things that people personally dislike, opinions, without proper background knowledge, and not objective assessments.

For example,

Wurm's subscription fee is still only half of what is considered the "industry standard", with optional extra fees. Rarely can you really buy land in other games. And even then, a deed that covers an area for 1s per month has quite a respectable size, and some of the price goes into upkeep. One month prem + 5s and you're good for over half a year, owning land. Nobody really needs a second or third account either, unless you want to go hardcore singleplayer in an MMO.

 

 

Most MMOs provide MULTIPLE characters for one subscription.  So you can't compare a single toon premium amount in Wurm to most other MMOs and consider Wurm to be half of what is considered the industry standard.  I hear that argument all the time and it is simply not true.  If an MMO gives you 3 characters per acccount and the account is $9.99 a month, each toon is basically $3.33 a month.  Now consider that in Wurm you would have to pay for 3 toons to get the same amount of characters as this other MMO.

 

For 2 premium toons, 2 deeds, and a few silver pieces, I pay over $20 a month.  To me, that is MY necessary setup to enjoy Wurm.  I can get two charcters, housing, etc. etc. in just about any other MMO for half that price.

 

All I am saying is this:  Wurm is an expensive MMO if you compare apples to apples (where you can) to other sandbox MMO's.  And that is a deterrent to the growth of the game.

[Uberknot 327]

Well dont worry he'll shove out bridges to keep you satisfied for awhile

[Baloo 709]

+1 a starter island for newbies is an excellent idea

[KanePT 699]

+1 a starter island for newbies is an excellent idea

[Baloo 709]

Well maybe there needs to be more information in the tutorial and maybe a longer one - i.e. in that village - for those who want to know more about what they are doing, before blundering in blindly and what the different servers are about and why and how to go about joining a village, etc.  

 

The thing is I have had so many newbie villagers that have not come back and i am really tired of that now, besides those who blunder into our valley and chop down oaks, ruin public mines, etc.  I will now only take experienced players in, particularly those returning to the game, so they know how to behave properly.  So many players, especially newbies, do not realise that the unwritten rules of the game are very similar to those in real life.  For example:  when you see ppl in local tab, introduce yourself; treat players already there and the environment with respect, only cut overaged and very old trees, clean up your mess, replant where possible (tutorial needs to include this) and so on. 

[Torgrim 403]

More active advertising could bring in more players. Doesn't have to be expensive, you can have some people actively promoting the game on forums, facebook, gaming sites etc. Also more communication from the dev team in the wurm forums is nice, weekly news posts with more teasers etc. its been worse now since the baron left us. 

 

Try to make MMORPG.com and other sites publish a news line for every major patch, like bridges, new elevation map etc. 

 

Also, focus a bit more on the mainstream activities like fighting and nice looking gear, improve the fighting system, improve animations and make more equippable gear with different colors etc. Fighting related things needs to be more fun overall. You could add more diversity to the skills, new fighting abilities you actively have to activate etc. and they could unlock at different skill levels. There is so much that could be done in this area and I don't think it could be more difficult than implementing bridges?!

[Lily 90]

This was tried, and didn't work very well... Wurm had a huge growth when they got rid of GV. I'll have to say many of my best memories of Wurm were there. There was a "no pressure" feeling about it, because there were no really hard mobs, and since everyone was capped at 20, it was kind of easy to "compete" with others. While on the rest of the game, its harsher in all aspects, and that's probably the main deterrent i see from the people that actually told me why they quit. They got fed up of having a second job instead of a pastime.

 

I'm a huge fan of the newbie island idea. I started on GV and definitely wouldn't have stuck with the game if I hadn't had the opportunity to learn the ropes there.

 

I'd argue that it wasn't the closure of GV that prompted the growth, but the fact that after closure that f2p were allowed on Indy to explore and see the 'real world'. Previously they were stuck on GV as Indy/Wild were prem only. The 'pay up or leave' barrier was offputting.

 

There's no reason now why they can't f2p on a new GV and transfer over to another server when they feel ready and eventually prem up in their own time. Best of both worlds then.

[Brash_Endeavors 4,735]

There's no reason now why they can't f2p on a new GV and transfer over to another server when they feel ready and eventually prem up in their own time. Best of both worlds then.

 

I agree with this. I was one who was rather sad when they got rid of the old "Hands On Tutorial", which taught people HOW to cut down trees, how to tell apart an older tree that would give good logs, from a younger tree that wouldn't, how to make a campfire and a clay bowl and a mallet.  The reason they gave for getting rid of the tutorial  was  that it was too hard for staff to keep cleaned up afterwards. However I cannot understand why it would be harder on GV -- which had fast decay rates -- than just turning them loose on the live servers with no chance at all to experiment and learn about the game in a semi-safe way.  

 

They said they got rid of the old tutorial because it made retention rates for new players very poor, but from what I have seen, the opposite is true. We seem to have kept many more players past the first hours/days back then. Now they spawn into the live servers, realize they have no idea what they are supposed to do in this game, and log off.  For good.

 

I would suggest reopening ALL of GV to new players and let them make a royal muck of that server learning the game (fast decay rates, so less of a mess than live servers) then whenever they feel ready let them to tackle the wilds take a portal to the live servers, keeping any skills and any items they are able to carry over with them from the training areas. Players familiar with the game can skip straight through if they like.  

 

Making a shiny showcase village is no substitute for the fun of getting one's hands dirty learning stuff. 

[Belrindor 663]

RE: Making a shiny showcase village is no substitute for the fun of getting one's hands dirty learning stuff. 

 

Absolutely. Dig a hole, chop down a tree, see how any why you can and can't do things. The new tutorial is shiny, but you can't DO anything. You can't interact with anything other than opening/closing and you can't even take the junk lying around that other peeps have dropped.

 

Then... BAM. You spawn on a live server thinking it's all unicorns and fluffy kittens, and two steps outside blossom... BAM! One shotted by a Venerable Raging Troll. And thus ends, your experience in Wurm.

[Tipper 260]

For player retention, I'd rather see more developed spawning areas that get people socializing and collaborating from minute one. I'm not sure what form that would take. We already have a number of newbie villages (and Fo bless them), but those require invites and teleports to connect with ... plus finding the forum ads in the first place.

[MrCak 72]

Another example,

That is absolutely not true. Sure, it's one way of getting to 20FS but certainly not the only way.

Well, that would be my 2 coppers then.

 

To get 10 FS you litterally have to train for days on a practice doll. You could kite from wilderness/steppe to a deed/tower, or you could slaughter every farm animal you have but at that point you are wasting more time than sitting there smacking the doll with sleep bonus.

 

There is a difference between grinding and needless frustration and while the current Wurm players are the ones that don't mind we are losing many many more that do.

 

But, this also leaves our community much more resilient and patient with an obviously unfinished game. When we are asked at large for our opinion, I do not shy away from giving it nor defending it but I do not wish to turn it into an argument if we simply have seperate opinons. My point was simply to get basic TUTORIAL level of combat in other games you will need to spend days on wurm one way or another.

[As_I_Decay 1,592]

I agree with this. I was one who was rather sad when they got rid of the old "Hands On Tutorial", which taught people HOW to cut down trees, how to tell apart an older tree that would give good logs, from a younger tree that wouldn't, how to make a campfire and a clay bowl and a mallet.  The reason they gave for getting rid of the tutorial  was  that it was too hard for staff to keep cleaned up afterwards. However I cannot understand why it would be harder on GV -- which had fast decay rates -- than just turning them loose on the live servers with no chance at all to experiment and learn about the game in a semi-safe way.  

 

They said they got rid of the old tutorial because it made retention rates for new players very poor, but from what I have seen, the opposite is true. We seem to have kept many more players past the first hours/days back then. Now they spawn into the live servers, realize they have no idea what they are supposed to do in this game, and log off.  For good.

 

I would suggest reopening ALL of GV to new players and let them make a royal muck of that server learning the game (fast decay rates, so less of a mess than live servers) then whenever they feel ready let them to tackle the wilds take a portal to the live servers, keeping any skills and any items they are able to carry over with them from the training areas. Players familiar with the game can skip straight through if they like.  

 

Making a shiny showcase village is no substitute for the fun of getting one's hands dirty learning stuff. 

Retention wasn't really poor at the time. The problem was, 5/6 of the newbie influx were not leaving GV. nor were they contributing financially to the game.

Basically, it was too comfortable for the freebs to freeb. The rest of the community suffered because most of the new players had no interest in joining the game community, outside of their tutorial server.

And, lets face it... when you're a greenhorn, it takes you 2 weeks to put together a 2x2 building. The last thing you want to do is abandon all the work you put in to start over again somewhere else.

GV was a bad idea. Shouldn't be revisited.

 

[Haiden 3]

Greetings and salutations

I actually stumbled upon this game today while looking for something worthwhile to play.  So I am a prospective player however I know nothing about the game other than everything I've read up to this point seem to be everything I am looking for in a game.  I love sandbox mmo's, I love crafting, and so I think this game covers that fairly well from what I can tell! 

 

However, I must say that reading some of the threads on the forum worries me that I may make poor decisions early on by not being informed on what is proper or not.  It sounds like the new player tutorial may not be up to par with really explaining the game world and some of its more important basic features.  I have yet to log into the game, I want to read up as much as I can on the game first, so that I do it right. 

 

With that said, is there any sugestions or pointers you can send me towards so that I can get a decent grasp on the game before I actually start playing.  I am really hoping that this is the niche game ive been looking for.

 

Im not huge on free for all pvp, at least not early on.  I prefer to get established and not get ganked every time I rub two sticks together.

 

Hopefully if the game is what I hope it will be, I will be a subscribing member and hopefully can contribute in some small way to this community.

 

Thanks again for any information you can pass down

 

Haiden

[Baloo 709]

Here are some ideas for you Haiden:

 

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/What_Do_I_Do

 

Also look on Wurmpedia for such things as:

 

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Cooking_With_Mamadarkness

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Mining_With_Mamadarkness

 

On Wurmpedia search for such skills as: prospecting, carpentry, etc and things like riding, animals, animal husbandry, body control, etc

[Marshlander 188]

For player retention, I'd rather see more developed spawning areas that get people socializing and collaborating from minute one. I'm not sure what form that would take. We already have a number of newbie villages (and Fo bless them), but those require invites and teleports to connect with ... plus finding the forum ads in the first place.

This is a good point and the major difference between themepark MMOs that group new people together in low-level zones. This and the mention of GV brought an idea back to mind that I had a while ago:

 

What if PvE servers were staggered in soft level caps?

 

Say every person new to the game would start on the level/ql 30 capped server (30 as to still encourage a premium existence). The soft cap means that all your skills and items are effective at maximum of level/ql 30 (except skillgain calculations). That means that veterans can visit these servers, but their gear and skills are scaled down. Also the cap would apply as a FS cap to creature spawns. Think of that server as representing an old, peaceful but boring part of the world.

 

People could choose to live on happily on the level 30 server as a top-tier crafter, or they could move on to profit from their skill progression. It would not destroy the market for high ql goods, but it would create a market for ql30+ goods again. It could mean people could play as casually as they want, or go to a higher level server to ramp up their gaming experience.

 

The higher level servers would obviously be the more prestigious places to live, because only there would you find large castles, colossi and other more magnificent creations as well as uniques, even though wagons and high-end furniture could be exported to the low level servers.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Marshlander

[Baloo 709]

A very interesting idea, Marshlander - can't see any negative consequences to that, except a "class/caste system" being introduced, which would reflect RL anyway.

[Sirdirty 6]

When you can have all your work and Money taken from you over night while your not even on is what keeps me from doing any sort of PvP. Griefers and Asshates that think they own everything and everyone. Makes it hard to want to be on an island like this. On top of that you pay to be permium, you pay to set up a deed and you pay to maintain a deed. Some people look at this as just a way to suck money out peoples pocket any way they can. With no way to make money then from other players It is even harder for the average to make coin to maintain their deeds. After a person shells out 20$ every two month for premium, then has to buy 20$ in silver to keep their deed running, it gets kind of old.

[sunsvortex 599]

First - STOP

Have Rolf come out on the forums and announce there will be no further development on the current engine and its play like it is for the next 6 to 9 months, during which time he switches to a more modern engine such as Unreal 4.  The 5% of gross is just a blanket offer, if you call them youll get a much better rate. 

 

A new engine opens all kinds of possibilities, better workflows, better graphics, better mechanics, the list goes on and on.

 

Wurms inability to evolve and adapt to an ever changing playerbase and industry landscape is quite possibly its largest problem. The ability of the devs to respond to anything is very limited by the current engine. Rolf as well as the devs have complained about the code and workflows for a very long time.

 

 Any ideas that could perhaps make any contribution to the myriad of problems facing WURM requires coding. The current codebase is inefficient at best.

 

If what you have doesnt work, change it. There is no need to be married to a particular anything when it comes to code and to do so only compounds and exaggerates issues.

 

Evolve - Adapt or Die.

Edited April 17, 2015 by sunsvortex

[Lostone 93]

Give a few more features to being new player not prem. yet.

 

#1  Horse and large cart possible but can only lead it.

#2  Prospecting like it use to be , you can see ore type.

#3  Wiki needs to be ether trashed or overhauled big time.

 

#4 The new revamped starting are is no good , you added all the nice buildings and popups , but players head straight to the gates.

      Old version had problems , but players had to go trough it.

#5  You need more then a adult minecraft to keep people interested , add dungeons or some old ruins to explore.

 

#6 You need more lower lvl mobs to kill , at the moment Glasshollow area is Hell hounds to Trolls .

     

#7  Fix the problem with guards hiding out in caves , and being useless , many a new player has told me they

     called guards but they never showed up , because they were in a cave.

 

Thats it for now , i know i have more hope some can be of use.

This is for none premium accounts.

[SotG_is_OP 357]

• Wurm is PvE-oriented game, but most dev focus is going to PvP anyway

 

Could you explain this to me?

 

In the past nine months, I count:

> New Elevation

> Sept. 11, 2014 Patch (which was left broken with disregard for player feedback and lack of necessary follow up tweaks)

> Fixing of craters on Elevation a few weeks before it was reset and adding of certain broken Challenge mechanics without testing and directly against the majority opinion of the players

> Some "minor" tweaks that ended up being broken and were not reverted or fixed; again, disregard for player feedback

 

PvE, on the other hand, is constantly getting new furniture, new structures (that end up being weird/bugged and block archery when they shouldn't for PvP), all the stuff that is on PvP except PvP or anything that might inconvenience anyone... so I really don't know what "PvP dev focus" you're talking about. Sure, we get some of these things, but they're all aesthetic and lack function. They aren't oriented around PvP. They are released on a much more regular basis with more time put into them than the patches we get here and there with one major (and majorly broken) patch each year.

 

I really wish people would stop making these claims before checking their facts. It's almost like they're part of the PvP patch making process.