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gnomegates

UPDATED / Warning - DO NOT trust Bruhamoff or anyone associated with him!

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EDIT #1: I have heard from the GM team, the issue is being delt with. I am not allowed to talk about what is being done, however if it works out the way it sounds, I will be very pleased. I will continue to update as I know more!


 


 


 


 


So I was set up and I fell for it.....I had 5 knarrs for sale, Bruhamoff agreed to buy all 5. After talking over the last few days and not being able to agree on a meet up time and meet up on a agreed time, he suggested that I put a box down with the name "Knarr Payment" and he would put the silvers in there and then I would xfer the knarrs to him when I was able to log in, that way we did not have to both be online.


 


As it worked out, I logged in and he was online and had put the silvers into the box, I logged out and logged in the owner of the ships to xfer them to him, then I logged back out and back in on my main to collect the silvers and they were gone. He had moved all 5 ships just off deed and parked them and the silvers were now gone.


I had no idea that if someone put something in a box that as long as they remained online and in the area that they could come back and get the items / silvers back out. This is what he did.


 


In the end he got my 5 knarrs and the 40s that I sold them to him for.


 


I have a GM ticket open, if this is not taken care of and resolved, consider this my good bye to Wurm.


 


I do not pay 25s a month for deeds and 30s a month for accounts to not even have stuff ON MY DEED IN MY HOUSE secured.


 


 


WARNING, do NOT deal with Bruhamoff or anyone associated with him. He is dishonest and a crook.


 


 


 


 


As copied and pasted from our PM's on the forums.


 



Bruhamoff


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Sent 01 April 2015 - 07:20 PM



i will have the silver by the end of the night,







gnomegates


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Sent 01 April 2015 - 08:35 PM



Ok, I prob won't be back online till late or in the morning again. My father may be online, you can look for him as well and he can do the deal like he did last time, He will be on in the morning sometime. Name is Yagyujr.


 


So if I'm not on look for him,


 


Thanks.




Est Sularus Oth Mithas







Bruhamoff


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Sent 01 April 2015 - 08:54 PM



will do, thanks







Bruhamoff


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Sent 02 April 2015 - 09:16 AM



im here, will be back in 5 or so hours







gnomegates


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Sent Yesterday, 12:14 AM



Hey I'll be able to log in any for a while, if you wanna send me a message if your able to get on, I'll check from time to time to see if you sent me anything. Otherwise Yagyujr should be online most the day tomorrow.


 


Thanks!  :)




Est Sularus Oth Mithas







Bruhamoff


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Sent Yesterday, 12:34 PM



Heya, i'm currently waiting at your village







Bruhamoff


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Sent Yesterday, 12:37 PM



If I am not on, do you mind transfering the knarrs over and then building a chest and i'll place the 40 silver in it whenever i get the time.


 


Place the chest next to the trader and name it "Knarr payment" if that be the case.







gnomegates


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Sent Yesterday, 02:21 PM



There is a forge on the docks, called #2  you should be able to put the silvers into that forge. Once I see the silvers there I'll xfer the ships all to your name and we should be all set. I'll check from time to time this afternoon!




Est Sularus Oth Mithas







Bruhamoff


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Sent Yesterday, 08:11 PM



I'd prefer an item named Knarr Payment, and if you want payment first we do 1 knarr at a time.


Just 40s is big amount, if it were only 1 knarr i wouldnt mind cause never know.. it could go missing for whatever reason and then hmm...


 


I don't even play because when i do log in you're not on so i just log back out.


If you could transfer knarrs over first, i'd feel a lot better about doing the whole 40s thing. ( still need a container that says Knarr Payment just in case )






gnomegates




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Sent Today, 01:13 AM



I'll put a container down that says knarr payment, but there is no way I'm going to xfer them first I'm sorry. You can look at my merchant post, I'm a established merchant in the game going on 2 years now, got hundreds of feedback on the forums. You can see the knarrs sitting there, they are there, I have no way to know that you have the silver. those knarrs are valued at over 60s and I just cannot xfer them to you first with out payment.


 


I'll have a box down and what ever amount you put in I'll xfer that many knarrs over to ya, the box will be one of the 4 by the merchant.


 


Hope that helps.


 


 


Thanks




Est Sularus Oth Mithas



 


Edited by gnomegates
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The pickup think is exactly what is so great with impalongs, everyone can take th e stuff they dropped inside containers if nobody else touched it. It sucks, you should've taken the coins out before transferring the knarrs.


Edited by necroe
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Good reason for ships to have a writ like form of ownership to allow ownership transfers like this through the ingame trading system, for that matter carts and wagons too. You can trade the keys but that doesn't really achieve ownership.


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If the silvers were put down, and then able to be withdrawn, and this was done with the intention to deceive and shaft you out of your just payment, then that would fall under the category of 'exploit' at the very least.


 


Also, I think that shafting someone intentionally is totally against the rules.


 


If someone can be banned from abusing the mailboxes to send COD stuff to people, or selling enchanted goods that aren't enchanted, then certainly this situation is at least equally egregious.

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The pickup think is exactly what is so great with impalongs, everyone can take th e stuff they dropped inside containers if nobody else touched it. It sucks, you should've taken the coins out before transferring the knarrs.

 

 

 

Ya I understand and appreciate the fact that it can be done for impalongs, the issue is I had no idea that it could be till now.....I've not attended any of the impalongs and had never had reason to do this before. He knew about it and used it to scam me.

Edited by necroe
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If the silvers were put down, and then able to be withdrawn, and this was done with the intention to deceive and shaft you out of your just payment, then that would fall under the category of 'exploit' at the very least.

 

Also, I think that shafting someone intentionally is totally against the rules.

 

If someone can be banned from abusing the mailboxes to send COD stuff to people, or selling enchanted goods that aren't enchanted, then certainly this situation is at least equally egregious.

 

 

Thats the key, he had every intention of doing this. Sadly I have no proof of this, but the GM's may be able to track the coins, as I have had them do so in the past, and they may be able to track his actions and see that he did it. And if he did it then he had every intention to scam me which is greifing. So we will see how it plays out.

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http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/7-game-rules/#entry1242020

 


Play Nice Or We Will Rip Your Heart Out (griefing)

Definition: Activities that are not constructive and with deliberate intent to do harm to others.

A ) You may not block access to deeds, merchants, or structures not belonging to you.

B ) You may not call guards to kill penned animals on deeds you are not a citizen of. (They ain't hurting you!)
C ) You may not steal deeds from the original mayor or residing citizens.

 - resident citizens on democratic deeds may vote a new mayor for any reason.

D ) You may not intentionally create player traps. (i.e. Using siege shields to trap other players)

 

Punishment: You may be given a directive, warned, or even banned based on the situation.

 

No. Not even remotely funny. Stole both the silvers, and the boats, with deliberate intent to deceive. I'm thinking if that doesn't warrant a permanent IP ban and deletion of all toons and disbanding of all deeds, NOTHING does.

 

This kind of crap needs to permanently stop in this game. It chases away good people.

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If the silvers were put down, and then able to be withdrawn, and this was done with the intention to deceive and shaft you out of your just payment, then that would fall under the category of 'exploit' at the very least.

 

Also, I think that shafting someone intentionally is totally against the rules.

 

If someone can be banned from abusing the mailboxes to send COD stuff to people, or selling enchanted goods that aren't enchanted, then certainly this situation is at least equally egregious.

 

It's not against the rules to be a crook in game as far as I know.  That being said, I'll never do business with the guy now.

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Sad day to hear about this gnome, let me know if I can help as a fellow trader.

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Sad day to hear about this gnome, let me know if I can help as a fellow trader.

Thx Lando appreciate it!

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It's not against the rules to be a crook in game as far as I know.  That being said, I'll never do business with the guy now.

I can't find where I read it, but I swear that I remember reading something pertaining to sending things COD with intent to deceive was a bannable offense. And if that's the case if someone says, hey, I have this RARE two hander for auction, and it turns out to be a non-rare 1ql garbage sword, and someone is sent that instead and clicks 'receive' and is shafted for, say, 12 silver, that should be actionable.

 

This is no different. Anything that is pure intent to deceive should be actionable. Otherwise we are protecting the criminal element whist chasing off more good and productive Wurmians.

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I can't find where I read it, but I swear that I remember reading something pertaining to sending things COD with intent to deceive was a bannable offense. And if that's the case if someone says, hey, I have this RARE two hander for auction, and it turns out to be a non-rare 1ql garbage sword, and someone is sent that instead and clicks 'receive' and is shafted for, say, 12 silver, that should be actionable.

 

This is no different. Anything that is pure intent to deceive should be actionable. Otherwise we are protecting the criminal element whist chasing off more good and productive Wurmians.

Well, you can see the rarity of an item and the enchants of it now, so that shouldn't happen unless the buyer doesn't pay attention at all.

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Inb4 thief defenders btw, Gnome's one of the traders with best reputation in this game, if he were up to scamming someone he'd have done it ages ago for way more than 40s.


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Not that I'm justifying Bruhamoff's actions here, but Gnome... you should have known better.  Other than the potential risk of being scammed via him picking up the silver... I'm having trouble thinking of any transaction ever where one person wanted to buy FIVE knars.   That's kinda like calling up your local Pizza Hut and saying "hi, I'd like to order 50 supreme pizzas delivered to [insert address of someone you don't like]"


 


If a GM would not intervene to return a stolen unlocked wagon, a GM has no reason to intervene in your case.


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I do want to make sure that everyone knows, if we decide to leave the game, its is not because I fell for the scam, or that I'm out any kind of value. It would be because as a player, if the GM's do not step in and take action, there is NOTHING we can do on freedom servers to take action. There is no way what so ever to recoup loss. If I'm a business owner in real life and someone writes me a bad check, I have recourse's that I can take to try and get my money. If someone steals from my store, there are steps in place to be able to recover the loss. The fact that in this game there is no way to "seek revenge" (a bit extreme of words but still fits) besides seeking GM intervention. I'm not allowed to go to his place and do things to make life harder, that is greifing, I'm not allowed to do anything besides warn others.


 


That in the end is why we would leave. If this was pvp fine, there are things I could do, but outside of GM help, there is nothing I can do. It fosters this kind of behavior and allows it to grow. This is all assuming that the GM's won't do anything. I have no idea yet what they will or won't or even can do. Regardless I will stand by their final decision and then make my decisions from there.


 


Thank you everyone for your support, it is indeed nice to see great people sticking up for others!


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Please refrain from trolling or derailing this thread.


Further trolling may result in moderation actions taken against accounts.


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Not that I'm justifying Bruhamoff's actions here, but Gnome... you should have known better.  Other than the potential risk of being scammed via him picking up the silver... I'm having trouble thinking of any transaction ever where one person wanted to buy FIVE knars.   That's kinda like calling up your local Pizza Hut and saying "hi, I'd like to order 50 supreme pizzas delivered to [insert address of someone you don't like]"

 

If a GM would not intervene to return a stolen unlocked wagon, a GM has no reason to intervene in your case.

 

Typically you are correct, but this was not my first dealing with him. He had bought several other ships from me in the past, so I had no reason to think that him buying more would be an issue.

 

I also have chat that I have submitted that could be shown that he intended to do this. From a convo he had with another person that agreed to let me submit. Now its all in the GM's hands.

 

I also did not know that after he put the silvers into a box in my house on my deed that he would then be able to take them out, he cannot take anything else in my boxes on my deed, so why would I think he could take the silvers back out. Its something that I did not know about, he did, and he used it to his advantage to scam me out of the silvers.

Edited by gnomegates

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for drop off orders to me. we always did the mail an item for cod of the order first, or at least half the cost then they delivered the items on my deed. when I logged in and saw these items. i'd check the mail and see the 2nd item cod to me to finish paying it off..


 


sad when folks do this. that's why my uncle and brother in law got out of the renovation field. they'd buy the product and install or reno the place. and not get any money for it, have to site and wait for court dates and cost you more then you spent on reno.   my uncle taught one guya good lesson. he still had the house keys, so his team went in and removed the whole kitchen they put in .


 


hope things work out. 


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you do it wrong way my friend :S    always send COD item thru mail as way to pay, then after clear payment you make him owner.... is not nice what he do, he already get boats way under market price... so inform us if this get sorted or we gona kos player as that even on highways!


 


 


 


edit;   i think GMs will solve problem since i know scam bring you BAN hammer.  could take time becose there are only 2 gms who can solve it


 


 


SO no worries!  you will get your knarrs back or coins for sure :D


Edited by RockyBalboa
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Sorry to hear about this Gnomegates. I agree this is not right from Bruhamoff's side, especially since you trusted him from previous successful sales. Rest assured, his reputation as a trustworthy buyer is now long gone. If Bruhamoff was planning to do this, then his going to have a long time picking up the pieces of his shattered reputation. Best of luck Gnome.


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I find this really sad to watch... A situation where yet again Bruhamoff takes advantage of other trusting players. As to the players who claim the seller not taking enough security during the sale. Fully correct on that statement. The seller could have done a bit more to guarantee he would not be so easily scammed out of it.


 


But here's the thing. Bruhamoff is known as a player who does his very best to *beep* over players. There's been so many reports against him and he's got such a terrible reputation by now that i REALLY wonder why no action has been taken yet. 


 


In my personal case he had abused alliance permissions to blatantly take items from allied deeds. When confronted him about this he did not even take the liberty to talk about it and explain himself. He admitted taking items and we managed to quickly nab half of our items back before he promptly KOS'ed us and called the GM's for griefing him.(Note: He did not ever deny taking items. We tried solving it with plain diplomacy but that got us a instant KOS )


 


Even after this case we asked Bruhamoff to explain himself in Freedom chat. We asked his side of the story but he just refuses to respond to anything. In my eyes that's more than enough evidence that he's done this intentionally. Why else would he not defend himself pubicly when someone calls him out for scamming?


 


As to the OP, IF there's anything i can do for you just send me a forum PM or in-game message. I'd gladly help anyone that's been damaged by this horrible horrible person.

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Bruhamoff's reputation is now in tatters and rightly so , but it does not address the issue of intentionally scamming/theft , I hope it gets sorted out Gnome you are one of the good guys 


 


Ninja edit - If there is anything I can do Gnome just let me know , I will even attempt making knarr's with my some what lacking 18 ship making 


Edited by Tarator
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being a forum troll is worse then scamming money ingame


 


:^) stay classy forum mods


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I had a long, misanthropic response to this thread, but decided no one wanted to read a wall of text in which I go off the "deep end". 

Instead, I am just going to respond to the one comment brought up, because it seems to be a prevalent "excuse" or "argument" used by quite a few people in this community: 
 

you do know its pixels dont you? hoping that he gets run over by a train in real life merits a trip to the psychiatric ward

The reality is, the people that get off on messing/ruining with someone's gameplay/pixels are the same douchebags that do it in real life situations. Sadists gonna be sadists.

Unless, of course, you're 15. Then, you're doing it because it's an age phase. "Rebellion" and all.

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This is a really sad thing to hear about after waking up. I hope the GM's can get this resolved, because I hate seeing this thing happen to good people.


 




Ninja edit - If there is anything I can do Gnome just let me know , I will even attempt making knarr's with my some what lacking 18 ship making 




I'll be helping with that with my 20 SB. :)

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