Selling Accounts - Curse or Blessing?

[Propheteer 7,139]

i see freedom is hitting stagnation the same way all pvp servers have, just in a different way

 

 

it would seem on pvp, once people fully develop deeds, land, and accounts, the pvp grinds to a halt. (economy is nonexistent here really, otherwise it would show too.)

 

it would seem on pve, once people fully develop deeds, lands, and accounts, the economy grinds to a halt for everything outside bulk mats and special items such as rares, glimmer, ada, seryll etc

 

once this happens, several things will happen

 

the pvp players who get bored of stagnation either go inactive for a long time, or sell up.

the pve players who get bored of stagnation try something new, such as building a deed in a different environment, e.g. mountains, try a megaproject like a collosus, or try another endgame such as PvP. if all those fail, they too go inactive for a long time or sell up.

 

the accounts go back into rotation, it repeats.

 

 

i don't think the problem here is with the accounts, and as much as it pains me to say this about a game thats a sandbox such as this, i think there's a huge missing piece of endgame content or a missing piece of the journey to get there.

 

for PvP, it gets boring once you have owned most things in the game and you are forced to deal with unintuitive mechanics to make any progress at all. Once you hit a certain experience border, everything becomes often predictable which drains the fun. The journey is getting a good enough account to survive on your own in PvP, and that journey is now meditation, which is just something thrown in to force players to spend 12 months grinding rather than introducing mechanics to make the grind trip more durable while incentivizing PvP.

 

For PvE, i don't know as i haven't played there in a long while, but it seems there are no outstanding goals after a while outside of making money.

 

And yes, i do understand we make our own goals, its a sandbox, but it's still a limited sandbox, what do you do when you achieve most of the goals possible in the sandbox?

Edited April 2, 2015 by Propheteer

[FranktheTank 1,901]

Selling accounts is fine with me, always seemed to have little effect on actually game play except maybe finding out how deep someones pockets go.

( I am looking at you various Wild/Epic players)

 

Personally I would never sell mine, I always thought my name had a sort of trademark to it.

[KanePT 699]

Its funny to see that so many people don't realize what the problem really is...

Its not that you can sell characters, its that in all honesty, most people can't stomach wurm's grindy and hostile nature, and if they can bypass years of grind with a few dollars, its worth it, in many cases it won't even pay the premium fees of that saved time, much less how much man-hours it pays.

 

That's the problem, being a high-end character in Wurm is more time-consuming than a full-time job, its not a past-time, its work. And most people don't play games to work, they play games to keep themselves entertained, and that is what wurm fails to do. sure its awesome having that really prettied up deed on what used to be a mountain-side. Its awesome, i can't tell you how nice it feels when i see pre and post pics of my deed. But it just goes downhill.. If you want to make something "competitive" you need to either waste your life playing or you need to pay for someone who did it at some point. And that's why people buy accounts in Wurm, because the game is excessively BORING.

There I said it.

[Keemu 15]

 

For PvE, i don't know as i haven't played there in a long while, but it seems there are no outstanding goals after a while outside of making money.

 

That seems to be the focus for so many people now, rather than just having fun.

We need something to work towards. Whether it is some sort of limited resource that keeps items made with it 'special' like a PvE version of Ada/Glim. Maybe very rare ore type or even better, a more difficult process than steel creation which requires multiple input items etc like how steel needs charcoal and iron except more difficult. Another option would be to have something that only appears in the world every now and again, to encourage exploration. (Some sort of harvestable resource that spawns in limited quantity, so the economy can never be flooded with it...at least not for a long long time anyway)

[Mordraug 2,542]

That seems to be the focus for so many people now, rather than just having fun.

We need something to work towards. Whether it is some sort of limited resource that keeps items made with it 'special' like a PvE version of Ada/Glim. Maybe very rare ore type or even better, a more difficult process than steel creation which requires multiple input items etc like how steel needs charcoal and iron except more difficult. Another option would be to have something that only appears in the world every now and again, to encourage exploration. (Some sort of harvestable resource that spawns in limited quantity, so the economy can never be flooded with it...at least not for a long long time anyway)

 

It's been mentioned here and there, and effectively drowned out in PvP hissyfits about wanting exclusivity on that kind of thing.

[Keemu 15]

It's been mentioned here and there, and effectively drowned out in PvP hissyfits about wanting exclusivity on that kind of thing.

 

Eh. Wurm community is so small, we really shouldn't be having us vs them.

These special metals could give more skillgain, faster actions or even just be for show but come from a PvE source. (Would still be available on Chaos, as it is just a PvE server with additional features)

Much like how glim/ada help in PvP and come from a PvP source, ie HoTA

[Mordraug 2,542]

Wwwwwweeeeell.... you can try suggesting special metals on PvE again, try different versions of HotA statues for PvE from a PvE event.... Was just narrating in shorthand what's happened when those have been brought up.

[Huntar 1,692]

I highly disagree with your last assumption.

Most people will quit out of frustration from spending hours grinding the skill they need to do a project rather than from running out of projects to make.

 

Inclined to agree with this.

 

Wurm focuses on a very particular demographic, one that requires the player to have time, patience, and the money to fork over if they want to continue investing that time and patience in.

 

Most new players lost interest because the game becomes very VERY frustrating at the starting, the game is very cluttered with content and skills to where it's confusing, off-putting, and the amount of time and effort it takes to make a single house will push away the most avid of gamers.

 

Selling and buying accounts is just one way people can play the game. Some want to make money off the effort, some get bored, disinterested or real life strikes them in an awkward position to where making money off their efforts/fun becomes an option. Some want to play from the beginning, get the skills up themselves and live their own experience, others want to buy bicycle accounts to boost their kingdom or crafting/enchanting service.

 

All it is, is another way to play the game.

[Belrindor 663]

Wwwwwweeeeell.... you can try suggesting special metals on PvE again, try different versions of HotA statues for PvE from a PvE event.... Was just narrating in shorthand what's happened when those have been brought up.

Let me see if I can succinctly sum it up...

 

Suggestion: "Hey, let's get some rare metals on Freedom server to give us some more variety."

 

Typical PVE Comments: "Hey, that would be great. Anything to give some more variety and use EXISTING resources so additional things don't have to be coded. Why not use what's already there to max effect, right?"

 

Typical PVP Comments: "U want PVP metals, then play PVP. -1."

 

Now there will be slight derivation, and not everyone has that PVP vs PVE mindset. But I do see a lot of that around where they want to be some 1337 special group.

 

"No you can't have our toys, not even look-alike replicas of our toys, because then that would diminish the value of our toys. And we wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaahhhhhhht exclusivity."

 

Or something of that nature.

[Propheteer 7,139]

Let me see if I can succinctly sum it up...

 

Suggestion: "Hey, let's get some rare metals on Freedom server to give us some more variety."

 

Typical PVE Comments: "Hey, that would be great. Anything to give some more variety and use EXISTING resources so additional things don't have to be coded. Why not use what's already there to max effect, right?"

 

Typical PVP Comments: "U want PVP metals, then play PVP. -1."

 

Now there will be slight derivation, and not everyone has that PVP vs PVE mindset. But I do see a lot of that around where they want to be some 1337 special group.

 

"No you can't have our toys, not even look-alike replicas of our toys, because then that would diminish the value of our toys. And we wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaahhhhhhht exclusivity."

 

Or something of that nature.

 

I don't care either way, but i do honestly believe adding PvP metals to PvE will reduce the potential playerbase, will bandaid a problem temporarily, and add nothing to the wurm experience for PvP or PVE oriented players.

[Belrindor 663]

I don't really think most folks are PVPin' for the metals. They're PVPin' because they like PVP.

 

My desire to try PVP has nothing to do with "Oooh, maybe I'll get a lump of glimmersteel."

[Mordraug 2,542]

I don't care either way, but i do honestly believe adding PvP metals to PvE will reduce the potential playerbase, will bandaid a problem temporarily, and add nothing to the wurm experience for PvP or PVE oriented players.

 

It will add new metals to the wurm experience for PvE players, open a market for the new metal tools...... 

 

Y'know, give both bought and "hand made" accounts something to tunnel/event for.. 

[Belrindor 663]

It will add new metals to the wurm experience for PvE players, open a market for the new metal tools...... 

 

Y'know, give both bought and "hand made" accounts something to tunnel/event for.. 

Just think... 'new' stuff... enhanced commerce... something else interesting to DO...

 

And all with no extra dev resources spent. Sounds like a win to me.

[Keemu 15]

Sorry I didn't mean to add "PvP Metals" to PvE.

I meant adding some type of new materials, not even necessarily metals, that would require PvE/Skilling content to obtain. (It would still be obtainable on PvP servers too, as they are just PvE servers with even more features)

 

Maybe some type of special tree that only grows above a certain height or exceedingly rare ore veins, something of that nature.

Or it may be a new component, such as refined steel or whatever.

 

It would be on every server, but it wouldn't be PvP based is the point. Something that people can aspire to achieving and maybe make their favorite/most used tool out of or something like that.

[Hailene 362]

The rare metals would be something like old dragon scale/drake armor.  It'll be pushed up towards the top, anyway.

[Uberknot 327]

The only step is to make the next tier of  STUFF once it gets to this point.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Sorry I didn't mean to add "PvP Metals" to PvE.

I meant adding some type of new materials, not even necessarily metals, that would require PvE/Skilling content to obtain. (It would still be obtainable on PvP servers too, as they are just PvE servers with even more features)

 

Maybe some type of special tree that only grows above a certain height or exceedingly rare ore veins, something of that nature.

Or it may be a new component, such as refined steel or whatever.

 

It would be on every server, but it wouldn't be PvP based is the point. Something that people can aspire to achieving and maybe make their favorite/most used tool out of or something like that.

 

Been suggested, been shot down by PvP'ers because "if you want special you must pvp" and other inane replies.

 

Basically we need to think of another solution to revitalize markets that's tween ego-friendly.

[Keemu 15]

Been suggested, been shot down by PvP'ers because "if you want special you must pvp" and other inane replies.

 

Basically we need to think of another solution to revitalize markets that's tween ego-friendly.

 

Full skills/items/server reset.

lel

[Kadore 926]

Since very few things require skill levels to create (boats, some fine carpentry items etc.) people generally play the game for awhile, get an idea of how long it really takes to level some skills and buy instead of grinding.

 

The other few reasons off the top of my head are PvP built characters and buying characters to get into the buying and selling game (which is a huge part of the PvE experience), priests and crafters mostly.

 

Aside from the PvP side of character sales, characters bought and sold have very little impact imo as its difficult to really say what drives the economy.

 

Those that typically buy a character and try to sell cheaper than everyone else to recoup the cost end up either burned out quick or have way more orders than they can handle, while it's not always the case, it happens quite a bit from what I've seen. 

[Shiraek 464]

I'm not a fan.

 

What's the difference between buying a character with 90 weapon smithing and Rolf selling "weapon smithing skill to 90" potions for 100 euros? At least in the second example it would actually benefit the game as it would fund more development etc.

 

At best, I don't think it adds anything to the game. Not for the people who buy an account and miss out on the actual game, and not for the people who have to compete with ancient bought-out accounts in PVP or PVE trading.

[Kadore 926]

I'm not a fan.

 

What's the difference between buying a character with 90 weapon smithing and Rolf selling "weapon smithing skill to 90" potions for 100 euros? At least in the second example it would actually benefit the game as it would fund more development etc.

 

At best, I don't think it adds anything to the game. Not for the people who buy an account and miss out on the actual game, and not for the people who have to compete with ancient bought-out accounts in PVP or PVE trading.

90 weapon smithing can take years, at some point perhaps the grind creates the market and no offence, the fund development line is so overused.

 

If accounts were sold openly, they'd be sold in secret. 

[Mordraug 2,542]

90 weapon smithing can take years, at some point perhaps the grind creates the market and no offence, the fund development line is so overused.

 

If accounts were sold openly, they'd be sold in secret. 

 

Fairly easy to spot in games with under 10k players ;-)

[Shiraek 464]

90 weapon smithing can take years, at some point perhaps the grind creates the market and no offence, the fund development line is so overused.

 

If accounts were sold openly, they'd be sold in secret. 

 

Yes, 90 weapon smithing would take a very, very long time. Sorta my point really?

 

"It will happen anyway" is a bit of an empty argument, for two reasons:

1. That doesn't make it right. Do we legalise murder because it happens anyway? Of course not.

Companies SAY they couldn't stop it and that's why they facilitate and charge for it now, but the reality is the high-ups saw an "income stream" they weren't getting profits from. The reality is that in games I've played account buying and selling was a kind of cheating that very few people did until it was "legalised". Getting banned and/or having no support when the original owner claims their account back were solid deterrents. Not for everyone - just the vast majority.

I realise this is a bit of a pointless debate. The odds of Code Club changing their policy on this one would have to be somewhere between zip and zilch, but opinions were sought

 

Lastly... "fund development" isn't a "line", however "overused" it might be.

[Mordraug 2,542]

All I know is I'm starting a gold silver selling company second I hit Beijing.... but don't worry, I'll hire far west so the prices remain low.