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Tekari

Selling Accounts - Curse or Blessing?

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When playing a game the fastest way for me to lose the motivation for it is to cheat.


Opening the console and turning on godmode or giving me money is fun for a while


but soon you realise there's no more challenge and you quit the game.


 


Now Wurm is an extreme game. Everything is so hard to achieve that once you've done it


you really feel pride in your achievements.


And since I know how much time and dedication it took to finally be able to f.e. craft a 90Ql pickaxe


and enchant it with a solid WoA 90 I rather not sell it at all than to underprize it.


 


 


Now here are a few hypotheses:


 


1. A player who buys a high level account doesn't cherish the work needed to get it to where it is.


 


1.1. Therefore he/she is more likely to undercut the prizes on the market.


 


1.2. The market is flooded with good gear at low prizes forcing the other players to a) undercut as well


    or B) stop trying to sell anything.


 


---> Allowing to sell accounts hurts the economy dramatically.


 


2. A player who buys an account buys its reputation as well.


 


2.1. Other players might not know the account had been sold and trust the good reputation.


 


2.2. The new owner might not be so kindhearted and trustworthy as the reputation of the account make him/her seem.


 


---> Allowing to sell accounts opens the door for mischief, trolling and grieving.


 


3. A player who buys a high level account can do all the things that need higher skills immediately.


 


3.1. He/She doesn't get the feeling of accomplishment like the others after finishing a project.


 


3.2. He/She is bored of the game faster and is more likely to a) leave the game and/or B) sell the account again.


 


3.3 Veteran accounts don't "die out" making room for newer ones.


 


---> Allowing to sell accounts hurts the player count in the long run.


 


 


Of course these hypotheses don't apply to every person who buys/bought an account!


 


What do you think? Please discuss!


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i dont see problem with this... everyone have right to buy toon and save himself time :D  bigest problem i think is low price of accunts so everyone could buy some decent skilled toon in range of 200€ easy.

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I think it's good that people can sell their accounts, because when you spend so much time and money on a character to keep him premium for months or even years, and you finally decide that your wurm addiction has to stop, or that you want to start over, you don't let it go to waste but make another player happy by giving him your character, and you make yourself happy by getting some cash back. After all it's not like we don't all invest way more than we should in our chars and settlements haha. 


 


As for it taking away peoples' motivation to play, I think it's the opposite way. Wurm only really makes sense if you are either happy with a single character, or you want to play on multiple chars with different specifications, priesthoods, affinities and servers. Having to level up all of those yourself is almost impossible unless you literally never stop or pause playing. So my opinion is that selling accounts is a blessing. 


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First of all,the number 1 i think is wrong imo..prices are pretty normal,and its normal that after a while of the game many accounts will get higher in skill so there for much more items being crafted to high stats=low prices.. i don't think its mainly becouse of accounts being sold.


number 2..you may be right,but i think everyone knows everyone by know(pretty much).


and number 3. i think is the players choice..he probably knows that,or maybe his real life is busy and doesn't have time for the real grind.


 


Now,i think  that accounts selling is an important aspect of the game and many will agree on that.taking it away will affect the game!


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As someone that has bought and sold several high end accounts over the years (Mimiga/Pryath/Gomeo(Epic) I have to say I agree with most of your comments. My own justification for buying the accounts was that I simply couldn't put the time in to ever hope to match these accounts, yet I wanted the experience of what having those accounts was like. I was lucky enough at the time to have a decent job so I was happy with my purchases.


 


The reality was I had some great accounts but (in terms of PVP) I had no real idea what I was doing as I'd not long started playing Wurm (particularly with Mimiga). I certainly had a false feeling when owning the accounts and eventually sold them all on. I'm glad to say that Pryath went back to the original owner, which pleased me, not sure about the other two.


 


The flip side, however, is that if you spend years grinding a high-end account, why shouldn't you be able to sell it? You put the hard work in, so I think its fair enough that you reap the rewards.


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It happens in most games but here you just can see it since it is not breaking any rules and i prefer it that way over the alternative.


 


If we were not allowed to buy and sell then there would be third party "sites" that would be here and we all know how much of a pain they can be, lol


Edited by Kegan

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I've never been a fan of account sales.  In a persistent game like this, old characters never "die" once sold, and the game becomes increasingly top-heavy.  As time goes on, people find it increasingly hard to compete in either scene, as PVP servers have lots of old bruiser accounts and Freedom's markets are dominated by folks with 95+ in (sometimes numerous) crafting skills.  Those powerhouse characters are rarely piloted by the original owners.


 


If there's ever a gold3, I would hope they ban account sales.  I don't see either of those things happening, though, and at this point it wouldn't be fair or right (or probably even possible) to put an end to the practice.


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I am also pro selling accounts. I have bought and sold alot of accounts and for me it is more about the need at that time. As i started a year and half ago i cannot even imagine doing alot of stuff i that i am doing easily today because i have bought some high end accounts. As i dont have the time to play 8-10h per day i would feel left out. Now what i can do is spend money and save time. I have always looked at this as i am buying time to do what i please instead of grinding. If i buy an account for 100-200€ that someone has played and grinded for 2 years, then i save around 23 months with that. You could say that buying stuff with real money is weird and it is just a game, but it is not like that. I buy entertainment, i buy leasure, i buy something that will stay for me for a long time and will save me alot of headache and time for the money i would spend otherwise anyways. So i think it is a blessing.


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Keep it like it is changing it would not bring more players and possibly lose some.


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*Speaking as someone who has an active WTB thread going*


 


Almost every MMO has had unofficial character/account trading when the game rules banned the sale of such items. I've never purchased an account in another game though, as they offer no safety net when buying, unlike Wurm. (In wurm, you just need to change the password/email and the original owner cannot just reclaim it by emailing the game company with their payment info etc)


 


You're right about it making Wurm 'top heavy', although the playerbase really isn't as top heavy as you think it is. A handful of highly skilled accounts can easily provide enough tools/gear/enchants for the whole community. I think it has more to do with how items are crafted, the availability of high quality ingredients and how items never really leave the game, not so much the characters.


 


Right now, if I craft a 90ql supreme longsword and put 100 coc/nim/lt/ms on it, it will retain everything other than the 90ql over time. When it wears down to 50ql, a player can easily just imp it back to 90ql in very little time, with no need to acquire hard to find/rare materials to do so. (Assuming you have 90 mining or know someone who can provide you with a couple lumps) That item is now in the game and very unlikely to leave the game in the next few years. (Unless the player who owns it quits without selling it or some sort of accident occurs)


 


If creating high end items costed more than just basic ore and the right skill to do so, we might not have such a problem. Yes, lots of accounts COULD create 90ql items, but without acquiring materials that are hard to find or limited, these accounts cannot just spam out 'infinite' high quality items. (I have no idea how this system would work, but it would limit the production of high end tools so that they would be rare enough / valuable enough that they don't flood the economy just because a few people have 90+ skill)


 


Sort of like how glimmer/ada/drake/scale items don't just flood the economy. There is a fine balance though in making it difficult to make but also not so hard to repair/imp that it isn't worth using. (Drake/scale are currently too 'easy' to imp/repair for how rare/useful they are. Plate armor is more difficult to imp than scale, as it requires high ql steel lump, which just doesn't make sense)


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discussion doesn't matter


 


you disallow it, it gets sold whether the developer wants it to or not


 


look at any other game lol


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2&3 : exactly my thoughts


 


1 (economy stuff): High ql goods take a lot of time to be made so I don't think that flooding the market with low priced goods is a direct result of account sales. I'll agree with Noizhead. Allowing account sales promotes skill inflation and old top accounts stay as potential suppliers forever. To this I would add that it is actually the accounts that want to get their skills up the ones who help the most with cash flow in the market and not the old high skilled ones that change hands. 


 


4. I believe that assessing the effects of account sales to player count is a bit tricky. On the one hand those who have no time but want some extra skills so that they don't need to spend 20 seconds to nail a plank on a wall wouldn't bother to play this game if they couldn't buy an old account. On the other hand new players who are initially attracted to the idea of being a part of a player-driven economy may give up as soon as they realize that they are well behind the average crafters skill-wise.


Edited by Anothernoob

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What about an evolving skill set? One counter to domination from older accounts is to add new skills that can be developed. 


 


An example is the upcoming bridge options. Make a new skill called Bridgemaking and in order to work with bridges you need to improve that skill. Woolmaking would have been another potential one.


 


This would increase the number of skills and give newer players an area to try competing in.


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First of all, I would never sell any of my characters. Why? Because from building all their skills from the start, I realize well the time and effort it takes to do so. No way am I providing anyone with this shortcut to achievement. If I ever leave the game they will eventually R.I.P. along with myself, never to be seen again.


 


A lot of hoopla is always made about "pay to win" and "easy mode" not being available in Wurm but the sale of advanced characters just proves this to be readily available to anyone who pays the price. The sales of accounts lessens the achievement of these skill advancements, since this can be so easily bypassed in this manner.


 


I see it as a question of ideals and standards set, which are diminished by this endorsed practice. In the end it matters little though, since the god of Wurm will set the policies that he chooses. Nothing can be done about this but to enjoy what the game offers, while perhaps voicing ones opinion about it and leave it at that.


 


*shrugs*


=Ayes=


Edited by Ayes

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I can see both sides of the argument.


 


On one hand I do think that allowing someone to purchase a 'max' account cheapens the experience all around.


 


OTOH, I realize some folks have lots of $ but not lots of time, and would be otherwise unable to participate.


 


Part of me still feels it's a form of 'pay to win', however. Especially when folks brag about skills they didn't even earn.


 


"Wot yer farming is only in the 60's? lolz. Mine is 99+!" (and.. ahem... I didn't spend five minutes earning it as I just bought the toon *cough*.) ;)


 


P.S. There will never, EVER, be a 'Belrindor' in Wurm that isn't me. If I quit, the toon quits with me. No matter how high his skills, or how much he's worth. It's a matter of personal pride. Some folks don't feel that way, and that's fine for them I suppose. But I'd never sell my toons. Never.


Edited by Belrindor

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All in or all out, either way it's always there.

If the game was bigger i could say it has a negative affect in overall and mainly in economy.

Same time everything has positives and negatives. This also allows some to stick with us again/longer and as mentioned - catch up better.

I personally have only tasted vyn priests, it's easy to buy and see whether it's for me or not

It does take great portion from the sense of accomplishment, id personally never play games if i was to choose that path on my main gaming account, unless it'd be for full PvP action.

If game focused in PvE i would want it to be against the rules. In PvE economy is the main thing.

As wurm also focuses on PvP and is so time consuming, then i myself see no problem why Joe cant spend 1200e on pixels.

I like that every goal i set to myself since the beginning i did complete.

Not everyone shares the same perspective on gaming as i do though, so have to respect their style aswell

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The best part is that Wurm freely give people the right to choose. Choose to earn ypur skills through button mashing, or earn then through RL jobs and buy a skilled alt. I have both and become very attached to both.

After playing a purchased alt for a few months, they become as much a part of my alt family as my own created characters. As I tell my ingame friends - they are adopted. Ask any parent that has adopted a child. You love them no less than a natural born child.

Selling is hard. I have sold my own creations and adopted alts. I miss them all, but think of it like they have grown, moved out and are living their own life now. I just wish they would come home to visit more often... Sigh.

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I highly disagree with your last assumption.


Most people will quit out of frustration from spending hours grinding the skill they need to do a project rather than from running out of projects to make.


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I would not allow account selling myself. I probably would have it set up so you have to give personal information in fields that cannot be changed once entered in the character creation to help dissuade them from being sold on 3rd party sites.


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Some people's goals are to gain skills, some people use skills as a way to push for their goals;  or that's how i see it at least.


 


People will buy accounts because they use the account as a means to an end, some people will buy accounts because they believe the account's skills will make them better than others; it's all how you approach the game and what you want to gain from it.


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I also find that in a game like Wurm where a big part is the projects. Those projects need skills to make. I know people who like to build and mess around like that but hate the grind, so having an option to buy accounts give them the possibility to play the part of Wurm they love. For example building a deed with a starter acc is just frustrating.


Edited by Argustin

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Yes, it is pretty clear that some will buy accounts to shortcut the process of having to build those skills up themselves. No doubt as well that this gives them a much different perspective on the game than those who have taken the time to build all those skills on their own. Possibly they will not even understand the difference, since they have not experienced this time investment.


 


People leaving the game will of course like cashing out in this manner, since they have no further concern for what happens to the game by this effect. Those who then purchase these accounts will enjoy the instant skill gratifications and put them in use in various ways. Perhaps to make even more money for themselves by the use of these unearned skills. Or maybe grind up certain other skills to resell the account for even more money.


 


It seems certain people play the game for the money that they can make from it and this selling of accounts suits them well. If they later tire of the game they can just resell the account, maybe even at a small profit if they have advanced these skills some. So I would say that for them it is a positive situation.


 


I wonder if those who created their characters from the start and raised their skills over the years have much respect for these types of fast track shortcut players. Not that it would matter to them of course. In the end is it good for the game? It does create sort of a revolving character door but income is generated in the interval, so maybe it is in terms of game income generation.


 


We each live according to our own standards, so in the end I suppose it doesn't change anything one way or the other.


 


=Ayes=


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Yes, it is pretty clear that some will buy accounts to shortcut the process of having to build those skills up themselves. No doubt as well that this gives them a much different perspective on the game than those who have taken the time to build all those skills on their own. Possibly they will not even understand the difference, since they have not experienced this time investment.

 

People leaving the game will of course like cashing out in this manner, since they have no further concern for what happens to the game by this effect. Those who then purchase these accounts will enjoy the instant skill gratifications and put them in use in various ways. Perhaps to make even more money for themselves by the use of these unearned skills. Or maybe grind up certain other skills to resell the account for even more money.

 

It seems certain people play the game for the money that they can make from it and this selling of accounts suits them well. If they later tire of the game they can just resell the account, maybe even at a small profit if they have advanced these skills some. So I would say that for them it is a positive situation.

 

I wonder if those who created their characters from the start and raised their skills over the years have much respect for these types of fast track shortcut players. Not that it would matter to them of course. In the end is it good for the game? It does create sort of a revolving character door but income is generated in the interval, so maybe it is in terms of game income generation.

 

We each live according to our own standards, so in the end I suppose it doesn't change anything one way or the other.

 

=Ayes=

Edited by Argustin

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On a macro level, selling accounts is good for the overall community.  Highly skilled crafting characters stay in the economy and keep prices low.  Also if someone wants to sink 800 dollars into a character to build massive buildings or craft their own 90+ gear, great.  More power to them.


 


As a crafter and someone who developed his own skills, I really dislike it.  It really does flood the market with high level crafts-people. 


 


Sure, some high level crafting characters may very well become truly inactive, but, honestly, if a character is worth over a thousand dollars, who in their right mind would not sell their character if they plan on quitting?  It is pretty safe to say any truly valuable character will be kept in the game one way or another.


 


I don't know if there's a real solution to this.  There's no real way to enforce it.  Maybe perma-bans for accounts known to be traded? But determining, without a shadow of a doubt, if an account has been traded or if the owner moved or something is very difficult.


 


Maybe a skill cap for selling accounts? No characters with a master title can be traded?


 


I'm just a little bit sad knowing that, day by day, the "value" of my skills go down as skill-creep continues to march forward.


 


The value of my skills will only really go up when there's no interest in buying high skilled characters--but that's no comfort.  At that point, the game would truly be dying.  And who wants to be king of an empty server?

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