Feedback is a precious, priceless gift.

[chademaster 33]

fatboy what is your point in your above post? Did you even read the thread? You are making points that have already been discussed and invalidated in previous posts. Your mindset is exactly what is trying to be changed: that the people complaining are just petulant children who need to be scolded into being quiet and take their weekly medicine from Dr. Rolf. This is not the case and is being disingenuous to the entire point of this discussion. 

[Belrindor 663]

Fatboy, this particular conversation isn't about the ropes. It's about improving dev-player relations and communication.

 

The rope thing, in and of itself, is merely a symptom of a much larger and deeper problem.

[Mordraug 2,542]

When you signed up for this game, you agreed to the agreements. Insaid agreements, it is stated, your accounts, land, servers can be randomly deleted by the dev's anytime. *snip*

, Accept it or more on.

*snip*

So those complaining, stop being lazy,

*snip*

wasnt happy about it, it sucked, but crap happens, im still here and still investing into the game.  

*snip*Honestly, im really tierd of people demanding this and that and wanting it all handed to them when they want it. Truth is only 25% of the playerbase or more or less use the fourms, so when you say everyone wants something back, your wrong,

*snip*

 

That kind of poorly lettered, derailing, whiteknighting, teenaged shrieking rant is exactly what I was talking about.

 

You barely read the thread and barged in chanting the classical bull%$!"#% chanted by game staff all over the industry and SHILLS all over the goddamned industry.

 

The classical "you signed the agreement nothing belongs to you except the right to kiss some hiney" ... guess what, those agreements don't hold water in court for many reasons, including the part where those agreements most games try to push on people are illegal in several aspects.

 

The classical attacks on people's personality, classic show of suffering from the ANGST caused by people having an opinion different to yours....

 

...the classic mention of having something bad done to your game account/deed and how you PROUDLY just shut up and took it .... that's one of my favorites and i'll be totally honest here, that doesn't make you a Nobel Peace Laureate, that makes you a moron, the kind of moron who allows companies in all industries to keep taking prime money for subprime services and get away with it.  

 

And of course you topped it off with one last classic... did you know that 75% of all statistics are made up on the spot to prove a point?   

 

You think you're being helpful to the devs by helping silence those awful, awful children... news flash buddy, YOU'RE NOT.

[fatboy 448]

When arent you all complaining?  talking about me derailing, yet this entire thread has bounced everywhere. End of the day, it is Rolf's game, he has the final say. You can like it or you can quit simple as that.. Also i didnt just shut up when my deed has one of the worst bugs of the game history, i had my wars at the time out of anger, However dev's DID work with me to get it fixed. Just because they fix a unintended thing ingame doesnt mean they have to warn you in advance, unless it  drastically effects pvp or your deed etc.   they should be able to change it without having to ok it with all. the mooring ropes  was something obviously  only some knew about.  ive been here years, and ill tell ya know, your constaint complaints of little stuff will go unheard. game will still go on.  Also compaired to the past, devs have had great pr people that have been keeping us pretty decently updated. In the past we went months without a word of whats going on. So friggin be greatful that you even get updates. They are a small team after all. Most likely you wont like this post ethier, i honestly dont care, dont care how it looks, how its spelled, its the internet and im here to game, not to show how awsome i am or how epically smart i can type.  All i ever see on here is people complaining over little crap and generally the same ones that keep doing it and make new accounts to keep doing it. So no i wont take a ride on your wagon, ima be that guy that breaks  the wheel off your wagon.

[Uberknot 327]

Feedback and Griping are two different things....

[Elktazahjr 131]

When arent you all complaining?  talking about me derailing, yet this entire thread has bounced everywhere. End of the day, it is Rolf's game, he has the final say. You can like it or you can quit simple as that.. Also i didnt just shut up when my deed has one of the worst bugs of the game history, i had my wars at the time out of anger, However dev's DID work with me to get it fixed. Just because they fix a unintended thing ingame doesnt mean they have to warn you in advance, unless it  drastically effects pvp or your deed etc.   they should be able to change it without having to ok it with all. the mooring ropes  was something obviously  only some knew about.  ive been here years, and ill tell ya know, your constaint complaints of little stuff will go unheard. game will still go on.  Also compaired to the past, devs have had great pr people that have been keeping us pretty decently updated. In the past we went months without a word of whats going on. So friggin be greatful that you even get updates. They are a small team after all. Most likely you wont like this post ethier, i honestly dont care, dont care how it looks, how its spelled, its the internet and im here to game, not to show how awsome i am or how epically smart i can type.  All i ever see on here is people complaining over little crap and generally the same ones that keep doing it and make new accounts to keep doing it. So no i wont take a ride on your wagon, ima be that guy that breaks  the wheel off your wagon.

You are literally every single thing that is wrong with the playerbase of this game, combined into one fat boy. I don't even know where to start, and honestly, I don't even know if I want to bother to tell you why you're so incredibly wrong.

Also, keep telling people to quit, I think you forgot the times when wurm had easily double amount of active players compared to right now :^)

I also see you talk about "always the same people complaining", but in fact I see completely the opposite. I see a whole bunch of players dissappointed in this game because it is not the fantastic game it could be, but then there are always the exact same people to tell them that "everyfin is gud this way it was even badder in past be gretful or quit ))))))))))"

Edited March 27, 2015 by Elktazahjr

[Shiraek 464]

Broken into two parts for size.

 

Part I:

 

Hey there Shiraek. Thanks for taking the time to post. Even though the original post was certainly not directed at you or anyone other than the devs.

 

Ye seem to take this very personally. Ye also use 'we' when describing developers, so I take it you've either developed a game yerself, and/oror fancy yerself peers with the Wurm devs. (As opposed to, say, us lowly untermenchen, who do not and cannot possibly understand the pressures one is under as a 'dev', yes?)

 

You may not have meant it like that, but that's certainly how it sounds to me. Apologies if that's not the case.

 

You're welcome. Is this apology for the misunderstanding or the condescending lecture/rant below?

I guess for completeness sake I'll explain myself without plugging my product... I founded a games studio two years ago, and after our successful release on Steam in late Feb, I have stopped thinking of myself as an IT professional dabbling in games and begun thinking of myself as a games developer, which I think is reasonable. I also think, given that our game is also and MMO and also has some very strong sandbox elements, that my perspective is highly relevant to Wurm as a whole.

 

You mention my OP sounding like one knew better or was stubborn, yet you come of with the exact same thing in your post towards me. You likely have exactly ZERO idea what I've done career wise. I've been on the dev end, though not on games. Boring, real world stuff that every day people use at their jobs every single day to feed their families. Nothing so important as a video game.

I don't have zero idea what you do career wise. You mentioned you were in development but were not a games developer bit further up in this thread. My response was to supply a games developer's perspective, because I was aware you didn't have it.

 

Thanks for your perspective on professional software development. But again I'm afraid I must disagree - I never found it boring. Trying at times, as some of the same issues apply, but on the whole (and this is relevant) I found almost every customer to be far more professional and respectful when providing feedback than I see in much of the games industry in general and in these forums in particular. Although I would exclude for the most part my own games customers from that. I appear to have been blessed so far.

 

My OP was about treating the customers right. Without the customers, you have nothing. Yea, you have a game, but no way to host it, no way to pay for it, and no one to inhabit it and breathe life into it.

 

This was a plea to get the... how shall we say... 'rather lackluster' communication between dev and player onto (at the very least) a more even par with most of every other MMO out there in existence.

 

Maybe the devs just like to code and aren't people persons. That's fine.

 

You know what, I'm not a people person. (Does it show?) A large portion of people in today's day and age are downright vile, and have zero morals whatsoever. I don't tolerate those people very well, and I tolerate them not at all in my private life. Hence, I don't like 'most' people much.

 

This time, here, on this forum. Is my private time. My paid, private time I might add, as I'm a currently subbed Premium paying customer.

 

But professionally, you'd never know that I don't like people so much, because when I'm under contract the customer is my god. I'll move heaven and earth to take care of that customer. I'll go above and beyond the customers expectations as routinely as most people fall below them. If I don't 'wow' my customer, I'm not doing my job right and I need to re-evaluate my performance. Why? Because that's my job. That's what I'm PAID to do, and because my personal and professional pride won't let me do any less.

 

Ask ANYONE I've dealt with in Wurm on a business transaction, either supplying or purchasing, and ask them what I'm like to deal with, and if I'm professional in my dealings.

I'm prompt, I over-deliver, and when purchasing something, I pay instantly as technologically possible. Here on the forums, it's just chit chat. And a thousand and one folks who seem to have nothing better to do than derail threads. (Not you, Shiraek, just in general.)

 

Edited for formatting.

I know what your OP was about and its intent - this was rather clear in your OP. And I think everyone who's ever been in business knows that without the customer you're kind of screwed. I am not sure what you're getting at there.

 

My angle was to give you a new perspective (one you explained yourself that you did not have) that might shed some light on why your plea may not be successful and that there's more going on than devs simply ignoring feedback from customers.

 

I don't see the relevance of the rest of your post. I wasn't talking about you or your experiences, whether you were a people person or not, or how you dealt with customers. If I was talking about you at all (and I wasn't for the most part - I felt we were both discussing, in general, other people's feedback), it was with respect to how you deal with your suppliers, not customers, and in this case code club.

[Belrindor 663]

We have less numbers than when I first started this game a year ago. Anyone suggesting that people quit, for whatever reason, should really take stock of that and see if such suggestions are really as good as they sound in their head. We need more players, not less.

[Belrindor 663]

Hello again Shiraek,

 

Let's just get down to soup to nuts, shall we?

 

I'm not making this game. I'm not doing customer service for CodeClub.

 

Ergo, I don't give a rat's fuzzy plagued patootie about YOUR feedback to my feedback.

 

Direct channels to the devs are about nil.

 

Thus, one must make a thread.

 

Every single time someone makes a thread directed at the devs, everyone and their uncle has to comment on it. Then folks try to derail the original intent.

 

If anyone finds anything nasty in the OP I wrote, then that's their own perception looking for things to find wrong with it.

 

It was written out of love in the hopes that it might make a dent, however small, in the lack of communication between the devs and players. You read into it what you wanted to read into it.

 

All I said, was hey, feedback is precious and priceless, folks are coming to you for remedy and you are ignoring them, and they are coming to you because they love the game and want you to fix it. They are trying to meet you in the middle here. So you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it.

 

And then you come out all butthurt like I'd insulted your mamma or something. Geez guy, get a grip.

 

It's like writing a letter to someone, and since it's forced to be public, every Tom, Richard, and Harry throws in their two cents along the way, along with their own spin.

 

The letter wasn't for you, or written to you, and the only reason you could even read it is because it was forced to be in a public venue from lack of other options.

 

So if you don't like the letter, then too bad, so sad, wasn't for you anyway.

 

Simpatico there space dev?

 

(This is your cue to leave me alone.)

[sunsvortex 599]

This is an interesting thread. At one time most of the points here have been directly discussed with the devs and various responses have been given both positive and negative by them.

 

About direct channels to the devs - there has been quite an effort, specifically as of late to shut those down, at least as much as possible and channel such communications through staff. IE using staff as a firewall of sorts. From a practical point of view this would seem like a good idea as its really not possible for any one dev to address the myriad of issues that any community can bring up. It makes a bit of sense from that perspective, however, a side effect of that is that staff is by default filtering the message - In more direct terms, if they dont like what you have to say, its not getting in.

 

From watching this process from afar and up close the logical end result is that any message from the community will be presented by staff to devs in a light of thier choosing if it gets presented at all. So you have to ask, how do you know if what you are trying to say is being presented?, what light is it being presented in? and was there any feedback on it from a developer?.

 

Since staff are players we have a small subset of the playerbase that has a voice to the devs while the rest are shut out. Who are the rest that are shut out? Thats up to staff... and by design.

 

In this thread there are some good arguments for direct channels that do not use staff as a filter, indeed not using filters at all, however there has yet to be anyone provide a working example of what such a system should look like or how such a thing would work.

 

If you want direct channels and good communication between devs and players - provide an example of how it might work, get a good amount of people behind the idea and push hard or accept the "heir apparent" solution of using staff as a firewall.

[KanePT 699]

This is an interesting thread. At one time most of the points here have been directly discussed with the devs and various responses have been given both positive and negative by them.

 

About direct channels to the devs - there has been quite an effort, specifically as of late to shut those down, at least as much as possible and channel such communications through staff. IE using staff as a firewall of sorts. From a practical point of view this would seem like a good idea as its really not possible for any one dev to address the myriad of issues that any community can bring up. It makes a bit of sense from that perspective, however, a side effect of that is that staff is by default filtering the message - In more direct terms, if they dont like what you have to say, its not getting in.

 

From watching this process from afar and up close the logical end result is that any message from the community will be presented by staff to devs in a light of thier choosing if it gets presented at all. So you have to ask, how do you know if what you are trying to say is being presented?, what light is it being presented in? and was there any feedback on it from a developer?.

 

Since staff are players we have a small subset of the playerbase that has a voice to the devs while the rest are shut out. Who are the rest that are shut out? Thats up to staff... and by design.

 

In this thread there are some good arguments for direct channels that do not use staff as a filter, indeed not using filters at all, however there has yet to be anyone provide a working example of what such a system should look like or how such a thing would work.

 

If you want direct channels and good communication between devs and players - provide an example of how it might work, get a good amount of people behind the idea and push hard or accept the "heir apparent" solution of using staff as a firewall.

[Sarcaticous 338]

Sunsvortex presents many things as though he knows all of this is factual. I don't believe he knows all of this as fact. Merely speculation. But then what I just stated is speculation also. Maybe Sunsvortex has a direct line to the devs and quizzes them on what information they get from the go betweens so he knows as fact that things are being filtered. Because the only way anyone would know this is if they talked to the devs and asked them what information they were being presented. 

 

Kane has some good ideas. A paid staffer. To pay for another staffer would require more money. Guess where that would come from? But still, it is the right direction.

 

And again, he is correct in saying players should not make decisions about the game as volunteer staff members. After playing for several years I'm not sure how much influence they have over Rolf as it seems he does what he wants regardless of the player base. But still he makes a valid point. 

 

Implementing premium only voting is not a good idea. Too many people have multiple accounts. A block of people would have far too much influence. One IP one vote for premium would be a bit more balanced. I don't care if multiple people share an IP. It would not be as lop sided as alt voting. And if someone who had money to spend wanted to they could sign on a whole crap load of votes. Right, people can have multiple IPs. But it still wouldn't be as bad as an army of premium alts. Nope, bad idea. It would be money deciding how the game is played. It makes me wonder how many multiple votes some got on Epic. Vote early and vote often. 

 

A verified wiki would be nice. Not going to happen but would be nice. 

 

Lots of good stuff. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by Sarcaticous

[sunsvortex 599]

Sunsvortex presents many things as though he knows all of this is factual. I don't believe he knows all of this as fact. Merely speculation. But then what I just stated is speculation also. Maybe Sunsvortex has a direct line to the devs and quizzes them on what information they get from the go betweens so he knows as fact that things are being filtered. Because the only way anyone would know this is if they talked to the devs and asked them what information they were being presented. 

 

 

Well your correct, I have spoken to them, not all but some. And the things spoken about in this thread have been mentioned for years now, its nothing new, except to the new people. I do know these things as facts. I have spoken at length about these things, a very long time ago, and yet here we are again, full circle. Same problems, same issues, just different people pushing for solutions. Which is why I find this thread interesting. There is nothing in this thread the devs havent heard before, and many times.

[KanePT 699]

Sunsvortex presents many things as though he knows all of this is factual. I don't believe he knows all of this as fact. Merely speculation. But then what I just stated is speculation also. Maybe Sunsvortex has a direct line to the devs and quizzes them on what information they get from the go betweens so he knows as fact that things are being filtered. Because the only way anyone would know this is if they talked to the devs and asked them what information they were being presented. 

 

Kane has some good ideas. A paid staffer. To pay for another staffer would require more money. Guess where that would come from? But still, it is the right direction.

 

And again, he is correct in saying players should not make decisions about the game as volunteer staff members. After playing for several years I'm not sure how much influence they have over Rolf as it seems he does what he wants regardless of the player base. But still he makes a valid point. 

 

Implementing premium only voting is not a good idea. Too many people have multiple accounts. A block of people would have far too much influence. One IP one vote for premium would be a bit more balanced. I don't care if multiple people share an IP. It would not be as lop sided as alt voting. And if someone who had money to spend wanted to they could sign on a whole crap load of votes. Right, people can have multiple IPs. But it still wouldn't be as bad as an army of premium alts. Nope, bad idea. It would be money deciding how the game is played. It makes me wonder how many multiple votes some got on Epic. Vote early and vote often. 

 

A verified wiki would be nice. Not going to happen but would be nice. 

 

Lots of good stuff. 

Each premium alt IS a paying account, and is entitled to that voice. A player with 10 premium alts (current premium, not ex-premium) can have 10x the voice of oen that has 1 premium character. Its only fair.

 

Well your correct, I have spoken to them, not all but some. And the things spoken about in this thread have been mentioned for years now, its nothing new, except to the new people. I do know these things as facts. I have spoken at length about these things, a very long time ago, and yet here we are again, full circle. Same problems, same issues, just different people pushing for solutions. Which is why I find this thread interesting. There is nothing in this thread the devs havent heard before, and many times.

Actually, no... I've been pushing for solutions all the time. So much so that i've been banned permanently on my previous forum account for stating the obvious and pointing out that devs need to listen, and not have such a defensive posture.

Edited March 29, 2015 by KanePT

[chademaster 33]

Each premium alt IS a paying account, and is entitled to that voice. A player with 10 premium alts (current premium, not ex-premium) can have 10x the voice of one that has 1 premium character. Its only fair.

Edited March 29, 2015 by chademaster

[Retrograde 12,013]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been reading through this thread, and would like to say that while we do listen to all feedback, the development team have not always had the time to provide feedback of their own, thus making you feel like no one is listening.

 

My new position is to help counter that, along with working on player suggestions I will also be your voice to the development team, as well as their spokesperson to provide feedback from their point of view. I will be the direct channel (to borrow the term) to the development team, and I'm aware that every player has their own opinion, We all want free flowing information, so I will be working hard on many aspects of the way we interact with you.

 

There are many valid opinions expressed in this thread, and many good points raised, while addressing them all individually in this post would take a large amount of time (and indeed a way too long post) I will say I am making a note of all of them and will keep them in mind as I work on improving the way we handle situations, but I will touch on a few things.

 

1) Mooring ropes.

This was a bug, not a feature that was changed or reverted, 100% bug. While I understand you all may have felt that it was intended, I can guarantee it was not, which leads to the obvious outcome, being fixed. While I understand it was greatly useful, it does not detract from the fact it was a bug and fixed as such. Players that feel that they should have been given a warning or it cast out as a vote but the fact is we cannot simply gauge how many benefit from a bug and make a decision based on that, it was a bug and removed as such.

 

From there, I have seen the suggestion to create a rope or tool that has the same functionality as the mooring rope had, which is something I will be sure to pass on for feedback. Reverting a bug is not something likely to happen, creating an item that performs the same function and is properly balanced is.

 

1) Wurmpedia

I know this is a late raised point but I would like to point out I am in the process of looking over it and ways we can improve its reliability, rather than telling players not to trust it 100%. I'm yet to come up with anything solid or concrete but it is in my mind.

 

I'm always willing to discuss issues with players, and listen to your feedback, I'm more than happy to talk via PM, or on IRC, I'm online 24/7 in #wurm and if i'm not at the computer when you leave a message I will get back to you.

 

I know we have a long way to go in improving things, and would like to thank you all fort taking the time to give your input, it's important to both you and us that this is worked on.

 

Regards,

Retrograde

[Ayes 3,715]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been reading through this thread, and would like to say that while we do listen to all feedback, the development team have not always had the time to provide feedback of their own, thus making you feel like no one is listening.

 

My new position is to help counter that, along with working on player suggestions I will also be your voice to the development team, as well as their spokesperson to provide feedback from their point of view. I will be the direct channel (to borrow the term) to the development team, and I'm aware that every player has their own opinion, We all want free flowing information, so I will be working hard on many aspects of the way we interact with you.

 

There are many valid opinions expressed in this thread, and many good points raised, while addressing them all individually in this post would take a large amount of time (and indeed a way too long post) I will say I am making a note of all of them and will keep them in mind as I work on improving the way we handle situations, but I will touch on a few things.

 

1) Mooring ropes.

This was a bug, not a feature that was changed or reverted, 100% bug. While I understand you all may have felt that it was intended, I can guarantee it was not, which leads to the obvious outcome, being fixed. While I understand it was greatly useful, it does not detract from the fact it was a bug and fixed as such. Players that feel that they should have been given a warning or it cast out as a vote but the fact is we cannot simply gauge how many benefit from a bug and make a decision based on that, it was a bug and removed as such.

 

From there, I have seen the suggestion to create a rope or tool that has the same functionality as the mooring rope had, which is something I will be sure to pass on for feedback. Reverting a bug is not something likely to happen, creating an item that performs the same function and is properly balanced is.

 

1) Wurmpedia

I know this is a late raised point but I would like to point out I am in the process of looking over it and ways we can improve its reliability, rather than telling players not to trust it 100%. I'm yet to come up with anything solid or concrete but it is in my mind.

 

I'm always willing to discuss issues with players, and listen to your feedback, I'm more than happy to talk via PM, or on IRC, I'm online 24/7 in #wurm and if i'm not at the computer when you leave a message I will get back to you.

 

I know we have a long way to go in improving things, and would like to thank you all fort taking the time to give your input, it's important to both you and us that this is worked on.

 

Regards,

Retrograde

 

After reading several of the latest reply's in this thread I was about to state that Retrograde is the new link between the players and their suggestions to the game Developers. This was stated even in the most recent Weekly Update. Now that Retrograde has made this post as further confirmation we will just have to see how this all works out.

 

As for me I am quite pleased with this arrangement, as it replaced the "secret committee" of which no one had any real idea of what they were actually doing, if anything. Now here we have an acknowledged open channel for this type of player/Dev interaction through this intermediary, which again is a positive situation since the Dev's can hardly be expected to be using their development time in this capacity.

 

Another positive step for the future of this game and player input in the process.

 

=Ayes=

[KanePT 699]

After reading several of the latest reply's in this thread I was about to state that Retrograde is the new link between the players and their suggestions to the game Developers. This was stated even in the most recent Weekly Update. Now that Retrograde has made this post as further confirmation we will just have to see how this all works out.

 

As for me I am quite pleased with this arrangement, as it replaced the "secret committee" of which no one had any real idea of what they were actually doing, if anything. Now here we have an acknowledged open channel for this type of player/Dev interaction through this intermediary, which again is a positive situation since the Dev's can hardly be expected to be using their development time in this capacity.

 

Another positive step for the future of this game and player input in the process.

 

=Ayes=

[sunsvortex 599]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been reading through this thread, and would like to say that while we do listen to all feedback, the development team have not always had the time to provide feedback of their own, thus making you feel like no one is listening.

 

My new position is to help counter that, along with working on player suggestions I will also be your voice to the development team, as well as their spokesperson to provide feedback from their point of view. I will be the direct channel (to borrow the term) to the development team, and I'm aware that every player has their own opinion, We all want free flowing information, so I will be working hard on many aspects of the way we interact with you.

 

There are many valid opinions expressed in this thread, and many good points raised, while addressing them all individually in this post would take a large amount of time (and indeed a way too long post) I will say I am making a note of all of them and will keep them in mind as I work on improving the way we handle situations, but I will touch on a few things.

 

1) Mooring ropes.

This was a bug, not a feature that was changed or reverted, 100% bug. While I understand you all may have felt that it was intended, I can guarantee it was not, which leads to the obvious outcome, being fixed. While I understand it was greatly useful, it does not detract from the fact it was a bug and fixed as such. Players that feel that they should have been given a warning or it cast out as a vote but the fact is we cannot simply gauge how many benefit from a bug and make a decision based on that, it was a bug and removed as such.

 

From there, I have seen the suggestion to create a rope or tool that has the same functionality as the mooring rope had, which is something I will be sure to pass on for feedback. Reverting a bug is not something likely to happen, creating an item that performs the same function and is properly balanced is.

 

1) Wurmpedia

I know this is a late raised point but I would like to point out I am in the process of looking over it and ways we can improve its reliability, rather than telling players not to trust it 100%. I'm yet to come up with anything solid or concrete but it is in my mind.

 

I'm always willing to discuss issues with players, and listen to your feedback, I'm more than happy to talk via PM, or on IRC, I'm online 24/7 in #wurm and if i'm not at the computer when you leave a message I will get back to you.

 

I know we have a long way to go in improving things, and would like to thank you all fort taking the time to give your input, it's important to both you and us that this is worked on.

 

Regards,

Retrograde

ok so lets just start here, its as good a place as any. Now this is not meant as an attack against you, its not meant to be taken personally, but we shall see.

 

While I can go into countless areas that need improvement lets just start with communication, specifically in your post. Good as place as any I guess.

 

your first line - "I have been reading through this thread, and would like to say that while we do listen to all feedback, the development team have not always had the time to provide feedback of their own, thus making you feel like no one is listening."

 

The first thing that comes to my mind reading this is (specifically the underlined part) -why is he trying to tell me how I think? It immediately pisses me off, and its about 40% incorrect.

Now to give you the benefit of the doubt - I get that your trying to convey that you understand the problem - but it could be worded a bit better. No one that i know likes being told how to think.

 

Second thing I noticed immediately is this part - "We all want free flowing information," - thats an interesting statement when in contrast to this excerpt from Wossos post "Able to use discretion, confidentiality, and impartiality,"

 

So when you look at his post and you read through it, its clear your trying to setup a structure to "control the message". Ok I get that, makes sense, but this clearly entails spinning things in a light into which you want it - IE lying. Nothing wrong with this, its what PR guys do, everyone knows it, and its for the most part expected that spins will be applied when and where needed in order to do thier job.

 

The problem I see is that in the above excerpts the two statements are contradictory, meaning -its hard to want free flowing information and then want discretion and confidentiality. those two tend to be mutually exclusive. NOW - you can say that im taking it all out of context, and that im spinning things to make a point, and im just trying to insult you or belittle you - but youd be dead wrong.

 

To me this illustrates that the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing and they are not communicating. If two members of the same team cant communicate between themselves, exactly how is it they intend to communicate the communities questions and concerns? If your going to control the message then 1. there has to be a message and 2. the message has to be consistent, as well as the verbiage used to convey the message, must also be consistent.

 

If I read Wossos post, then read yours it sounds more like a powerplay and a setup more than "were working our asses off to get things in order and work with the community openly and honestly." Now I am 100% certain that other people will say thats not how they read it, thats fine, some people will read past that kind of stuff and listen to what you are trying to say rather than what you are saying - but many others will not give such passe. They have done it for far too long and have learned to "read between the lies" (so to speak) and to look for the Freudian slips that expose true intent, the subtle wording that betrays the post.

 

If your in PR - its your job to pay attention to these things -they matter -they mean a lot. If the results dont match the hype -you loose credibility and integrity

 

So we have really 2 issues that come out of the second concern the ability for staff to convey the communities questions and concerns and thier ability to control a message which as far as I can tell doesnt exist yet. Or more correctly - control information flow.

 

Now another point, mostly coming from Wossos post. He mentions protecting Wurms reputation. Lots of things wrong with that. First WURM's reputation has been built (rather badly) for years and its going to take a very long time to repair it. So really there is no need to protect it as you have to have a reputation to protect to begin with. And if were totally honest, Wurm doesnt have much of a reputation, but then again its not a widely known game, so its quite possible to repair it and "then" protect it.

 

Next problem is that Wossos post sounds more like a Call To Arms for all White Knighters and brown nosers. It just really came across like that. Now again you can say Im just bitter or trying to take things out of context, and all that stuff, but again youd be dead wrong. The tone of any post will add undercurrent to the interpretation. Tone is everything, set it right and things will go much smoother.

 

Bottom line is - if your going to solve problems, if your going to apply solutions to problems 1. You have to admit problems exist in the first place 2. Be brutally honest about those problems and 3. Openly and honestly discuss them. 4 Realize that every new solution carries with it new problems.Simply ignoring those problems in order to get a solution in does nothing for anyone.

 

Now for the last one - its a test , multiple choice even to make it easy - Most people know that Rolf is adamantly against the idea of gunpowder in game, at least I do. So ill use me as an example - If I go to suggestions and I , knowing that Rolf hates the idea, make a suggestion that would say add in hand cannons or ship cannons, am I

1. Making a troll post

2 Trying to see if there is enough support within the community to possibly persuade Rolf otherwise

3. Neither

4. Other -Explain

 

So lets see 1. If you respond

2 If you respond how you do it -will it be a post full of facetiousness and rebuttal taken out of context showing that you took it personally

3 If you respond will it be in generalities and dismissals

4. Will it be the SOP of do not respond and answer with silence

5. Or will we get something unexpected

Edited March 30, 2015 by sunsvortex

[Belrindor 663]

Bottom line is - if your going to solve problems, if your going to apply solutions to problems 1. You have to admit problems exist in the first place 2. Be brutally honest about those problems and 3. Openly and honestly discuss them. 4 Realize that every new solution carries with it new problems.Simply ignoring those problems in order to get a solution in does nothing for anyone.

[Belrindor 663]

1) Mooring ropes.

This was a bug, not a feature that was changed or reverted, 100% bug. While I understand you all may have felt that it was intended, I can guarantee it was not, which leads to the obvious outcome, being fixed. While I understand it was greatly useful, it does not detract from the fact it was a bug and fixed as such. Players that feel that they should have been given a warning or it cast out as a vote but the fact is we cannot simply gauge how many benefit from a bug and make a decision based on that, it was a bug and removed as such.

 

I'm always willing to discuss issues with players, and listen to your feedback, I'm more than happy to talk via PM, or on IRC, I'm online 24/7 in #wurm and if i'm not at the computer when you leave a message I will get back to you.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Belrindor

[Uberknot 327]

Welp looks like a few folks won't ever get over having a bug taken away......Deal with it as they say....

 

Sometimes the feedbackers need to take a step back and realize its not only about what they want.

 

Without seeing the code and understanding how all the ropes are listed in it you cannot call people liars when they say it was unintended.

 

I think some of what is being said is way past feedback btw.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Uberknot

[Belrindor 663]

Welp looks like a few folks won't ever get over having a bug taken away......Deal with it as they say....

 

Sometimes the feedbackers need to take a step back and realize its not only about what they want.

 

without seeing the code and understanding how all the ropes are listed in it you cannot call people liars when they say it was unintended.

[Uberknot 327]

Once again, you miss the point.

 

I don't give a rip about the rope thing, bug or otherwise. It goes beyond that. Deal with it... as they say.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Uberknot

[Belrindor 663]

It sounds to me like you aren't really interested in solving anything. Only having your gripe on, one way or another.

 

Ignoring what needs fixed won't fix it.

 

Someone doesn't need to be a liar, one need only be misinformed. If I told you that 1+ 1 was 4, and yet you knew that 1 + 1 was 2, would I be a liar if I honestly thought the answer was 4? No. Only if the point was to deceive, which I don't think it is.

 

But enough banter with you. I figured you'd be back on my thread to have your say and poke at us, one way or another, and you don't disappoint. Though I really wish you would once in a while. Its getting a bit old.