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Belrindor

Feedback is a precious, priceless gift.

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Just as the title says.


 


Priceless. As in, you cannot truly purchase it at any price. Major companies spend millions per annum trying to do so, to get the pulse of what their customers want. All fail.



Realize it for what it is, and embrace it.


 


And realize it's a form of love from your customers.



Customers who don't care, just, in the case of an online game, quit and never return, and never bother telling you why. You just never see them again.


 


If a customer is telling you what's wrong, that's because they care, and they want you to fix it.


 


They are coming to you with their grievances in a last ditch attempt to get you to acknowledge that they feel they've been wronged or aggrieved in some fashion, and they are coming to you for remedy.


 


They are not coming to be told they don't matter. They are not coming to be mocked.


 


And perhaps most importantly... they aren't coming to be wholesale ignored.


 


So take it as ye will, to your benefit or financial peril.


 


Ye can lead a horse to water...


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Feedback is good until you get these posts:


http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120465-devs-you-confuse-me/


 


and these: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120482-mooring-rope/


The poll:


Did you know about the Mooring rope trick?


  • Yes cos i'm pro. Bring it back!
  • No. Please bring it back so I can enjoy it!

 


And then the news posts which im not gonna link.


 


Point is, Feedback is good until you get self righteousness involved & people demanding they revert a change because of convenience that shouldn't even have existed in the first place. 


 


I don't blame the team for refusing to read these forums for feedback anymore given how the community reacted yesterday. 


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Feedback isn't precious nor is it hard to come by...everyone has an opinion and will tell anyone who will listen.


 


Non biased, informed feedback however...that is valuable and rare.


How do you get such feedback? Well, that's the hard part...the loudest voices are rarely the most useful.


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Trick #5875. Blame the customer when you fail to meet their expectations, and they get upset.


 


I suppose you've never heard the old adage, The customer is always right'? ;)


 


Sure, the thing with the mooring rope should not existed. But it does. Can't put things back in Pandora's box, mate.


 


What SHOULD have happened after this, is making something to appease 'the mob' (no offense intended by that term, btw, used in the old Roman term to mean 'the people'), before removing the old one.


 


If that was not possible, a beforehand HEADS UP to the changes with damage control by PR would have helped immensely.


 


Once again, as almost always lately, ye miss the point by a mile.


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Feedback is good until you get these posts:

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120465-devs-you-confuse-me/

 

and these: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120482-mooring-rope/

The poll:

Did you know about the Mooring rope trick?

  • Yes cos i'm pro. Bring it back!

No. Please bring it back so I can enjoy it!

 

And then the news posts which im not gonna link.

 

Point is, Feedback is good until you get self righteousness involved & people demanding they revert a change because of convenience that shouldn't even have existed in the first place. 

 

I don't blame the team for refusing to read these forums for feedback anymore given how the community reacted yesterday. 

Actually, that's EXACTLY the kind of feedback the game needs.

It was unintended, maybe a bug, yes. Was it breaking the game, no?

Should it be removed, of course not!

Yet, despite actual EXPLOITS happening, and generating real revenue for the exploiters (ie Fountain containers) they weren't removed, although the ability to create them was. Meaning they're actually more expensive.

Wurm has a long history of preferential treatment, including to where they get their feedback. Which is why its stuck on a endless loop of new servers as the only way to revitalize the game.

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There is always an 'in' crowd. That in crowd always has a vested interest in keeping things status quo.


 


If real change is to happen, that status quo will have to be broken.


 


And of course, those in the status quo never see a problem, and never feel drastic changes have to be made. You cannot change a system whilst part of that system. History has proven, it simply does not work.


 


The old system must be broken down entirely, and a new one with safeguards in place, formed from it's ashes. Otherwise, nothing ever changes.


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There is always an 'in' crowd. That in crowd always has a vested interest in keeping things status quo.

 

If real change is to happen, that status quo will have to be broken.

 

And of course, those in the status quo never see a problem, and never feel drastic changes have to be made. You cannot change a system whilst part of that system. History has proven, it simply does not work.

 

The old system must be broken down entirely, and a new one with safeguards in place, formed from it's ashes. Otherwise, nothing ever changes.

 

typical of most beta's.

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There is always an 'in' crowd. That in crowd always has a vested interest in keeping things status quo.

 

If real change is to happen, that status quo will have to be broken.

 

And of course, those in the status quo never see a problem, and never feel drastic changes have to be made. You cannot change a system whilst part of that system. History has proven, it simply does not work.

 

The old system must be broken down entirely, and a new one with safeguards in place, formed from it's ashes. Otherwise, nothing ever changes.

 

Funny you should say this... I told Johan this nearly 1.5 years ago....nearly exactly the same words, and discussed it in length, his answer was this - he believed organic change was better than a complete overhaul.

So dont be surprised if thats the way it is looked at assuming it is even believed that change is needed.

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Funny you should say this... I told Johan this nearly 1.5 years ago....nearly exactly the same words, and discussed it in length, his answer was this - he believed organic change was better than a complete overhaul.

So dont be surprised if thats the way it is looked at assuming it is even believed that change is needed.

And funny ye should say that...

 

No one ever 'changes' the system from within. They are changed BY the system. Again, history as a reference.

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Sure, the thing with the mooring rope should not existed. But it does. Can't put things back in Pandora's box, mate.

 

 

 

Well, actually Rolf can and does. Because this is just a game and it really does not matter.

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Well, actually Rolf can and does. Because this is just a game and it really does not matter.

Let's re-phrase that shall we, so perhaps ye understand the point I am trying to make here...

 

It existed. You cannot change the fact that it existed. Since it existed, people came to like it and rely upon it. Removing it does not change that, and never will. Sure, you can remove it and even 'withhold' it in the future. But you cannot change the fact that it's out of the box. Get it now?

 

2qavd3m.png

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LOL. Like I said, it really does not matter. Get it.  :rolleyes:


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I don't see where it was hurting anything to begin with. Lets just put it back.


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You make a good point in your OP Belrindor, that player comments (feedback) through their posts made within this forum shows a caring and concern for the direction that the game continues to pursue. I played WoW almost since the beginning and never once did I make a post within their forums. I simply felt it pointless to do so, as I viewed their approach as predetermined by the developers and company men.


 


This small community, with even less posting upon these forums, lends a more personal significance to their observations and points made. After a while one knows who might contribute something of value and who to tune out. No doubt the powers that be take this approach to comments made herein as well.


 


I have seen positive changes made as the result of some comments (feedback) made here from a more reasonable and clam perspective and have faith that this will continue to be the case. Demanding and demeaning comments on the other hand are not likely to receive a positive response. Human nature that.


 


=Ayes=


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(...)

So take it as ye will, to your benefit or financial peril.

 

Ye can lead a horse to water...

 

I agree with all that you said, honestly I do. I work around people, customers; I like hearing about good things. "This _______ is ________, it's so nice to see ________." But, all too often when a company hears from a customer it's nothing constructive, seldom objective and typically just amounts to an off topic and hateful ranting about ideology held by a faceless entity named whatever company you may be associated with by working for said company. These posts remind me of a scene in Fight Club, where it is explained how a recall occurs:

 

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

 

Companies do listen to their customers, sadly it always ends up being the wrong type of customers, the customer that no longer is a customer. I always hear customers say something along the lines of "I'll never come back here" or "Ill take my business elsewhere." I wish, but no they will be back and make the same complaints in a week or two.

 

As long as you make your complaints heard and offer up more money... no changes take place. It's irony. A product or service will change to your liking only when you no longer partake in the product or service. Put your money where your mouth is, if you ever want to see change, let the company know you make a change, fax your receipt or invoce from your new provider to your old provider to prove your point.

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Yea, I absolutely realize that I'm likely just talking to myself here. But there's always that slim chance...


 


Hope, after all, is the one thing that was left in Pandora's box.


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Some good points, but also us the players need to put in the effort to give feedback.


A lot of players have given up, and so some important issues on the suggestion forum get just 2 pages of +ones every month to a year.


It's disappointing when an issue that is an easy fix for example mail item size or ability to pick sprouts from horseback get unanimous support but its never changed or talked about.


 


 


Don't give up. We need to all vote on the suggestion forum so our voices can be heard.


Edited by Omar

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The community just needs to be better imo... From what I have seen in the suggestions forums are reallly nasty comments and feedback from the community itself... I am all fine with disagreeing and having your opinion but they can get very rude with their comments.... If a bunch don't agree with you, BURN THE PERSON WHO CREATED THE THREAD, Lets tell him what a disgrace he is for even bringing up such a crazy idea.... Lets all jump on top of him and knock him down and belittle him...


'


I have never made a suggestion and keep quiet most of the time...because I am afraid this will happen to me... But i'm getting really sick and tired when I hear "You are whining too much let it go" comments...


 


People are trying to get things fixed, they are tired of the bugs that are happening and they try to fix them by making a post in the forums about it and that is the feedback they get by the community...


 


How can we get anything accomplished if the community as a whole keep pushing us down when we want to try and fix something...


 


I am not saying lets all gather up as a group with pitchforks, weapons, and flaming torches and go burn down rolfs and the wurm teams home and office.... 


 


But there does seem to be alot of I will say it... Fanboism.... when something mucks up and someone cries about it... They should be allowed too...Not to a degree of I want to kill the game and its creators but to be able to express there frustrations without judgement.....


 


All and all I am just getting sick of the comments by people.... We cannot get anything accomplished if you keep dumbing down everything and saying everything is fine and dandy...


 


Might be okay for you... You might not be experiencing the same things but other people are.... 


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I agree with all that you said, honestly I do. I work around people, customers; I like hearing about good things. "This _______ is ________, it's so nice to see ________." But, all too often when a company hears from a customer it's nothing constructive, seldom objective and typically just amounts to an off topic and hateful ranting about ideology held by a faceless entity named whatever company you may be associated with by working for said company. These posts remind me of a scene in Fight Club, where it is explained how a recall occurs:

 

A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

 

Companies do listen to their customers, sadly it always ends up being the wrong type of customers, the customer that no longer is a customer. I always hear customers say something along the lines of "I'll never come back here" or "Ill take my business elsewhere." I wish, but no they will be back and make the same complaints in a week or two.

 

As long as you make your complaints heard and offer up more money... no changes take place. It's irony. A product or service will change to your liking only when you no longer partake in the product or service. Put your money where your mouth is, if you ever want to see change, let the company know you make a change, fax your receipt or invoce from your new provider to your old provider to prove your point.

Edited by Killroth

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I agree Killroth, and I wish more people felt this way...


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Actually, that's EXACTLY the kind of feedback the game needs.

It was unintended, maybe a bug, yes. Was it breaking the game, no?

Should it be removed, of course not!

Yet, despite actual EXPLOITS happening, and generating real revenue for the exploiters (ie Fountain containers) they weren't removed, although the ability to create them was. Meaning they're actually more expensive.

Wurm has a long history of preferential treatment, including to where they get their feedback. Which is why its stuck on a endless loop of new servers as the only way to revitalize the game.

 

Shh. They'll call you paranoid if you mention the old boy's club.

 

LOL. Like I said, it really does not matter. Get it.  :rolleyes:

 

It mattered to the people upset by these changes.

 

Just because this game isn't important to you - doesn't mean it's not important to others.

Edited by Dairuka

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Ok Belrindor, read the title of your post. You are trashing the feedback people are giving you that you CLAIM is so valuable. Is it only valuable as long as someone agrees with your point of view? Know what that's called, hmmm? Yeah they should have given a heads up but that would not have made any difference. The river of tears would have commenced sooner is all. Be patient, maybe Rolf will change it back. It took forever to fix it so if it takes a week or two to revert, well, it was quicker I guess. I think right now they are more concerned about Epic.  ;)


Edited by Clatius

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Shh. They'll call you paranoid if you mention the old boy's club.

 

 

It mattered to the people upset by these changes.

 

Just because this game isn't important to you - doesn't mean it's not important to others.

 

It's a game so yeah it's way down on the important list as it should be. If it's somehow a life or death thing for you then I sincerely pity your quality of life. It's a game, not real. 

 

BTW, I'm retired, I have no quality of life.  :lol:

Edited by Clatius

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It's a game so yeah it's way down on the important list as it should be. If it's somehow a life or death thing for you then I sincerely pity your quality of life. It's a game, not real. 

 

BTW, I'm retired, I have no quality of life.  :lol:

Edited by Dairuka

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Feedback is good until you get these posts:

http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120465-devs-you-confuse-me/

 

and these: http://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/120482-mooring-rope/

The poll:

Did you know about the Mooring rope trick?

  • Yes cos i'm pro. Bring it back!

No. Please bring it back so I can enjoy it!

 

And then the news posts which im not gonna link.

 

Point is, Feedback is good until you get self righteousness involved & people demanding they revert a change because of convenience that shouldn't even have existed in the first place. 

 

I don't blame the team for refusing to read these forums for feedback anymore given how the community reacted yesterday. 

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