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silakka

More room to breathe for staff

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I think when it's staff business, staying professional and representative also open+fun is important.

But while in GL chat or skirmish thread or suggestion thread, i just dont think everyone should focus on the title, just let there be lil more fun.

Also seems many got so much pent up anger and bad thoughts on staff. Please if it is something worthy, then do report it or make a different thread if that would be really necessary, but here it's off topic.

Most of us HAVE reported these things, several times. It's the same as exploits, you can report them as many times as you like, they wont get fixed

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I agree staff members should be reviewed all the time, there are GMs that do jack squat or do very little, some long timers who have probably passed their sell by date where their position should probably be passed onto younger blood who's willing to put in the extra work.

One of the things I don't like about GM's are that they have to maintain a reputation, playing on a pvp server GM players are heavily watched to see them slip up, which is why I would support GM's being completely anonymous from the non player perspective.

I also know there are various Freedom GM's or CM's who think they're something completely special, they are a little popular on a server, as well as a CM or GM, part of a large alliance etc where it's gone to their head. Because of this they end up being rude or feel like they're in charge and by arguing you'll likely get a server wide KOS or banishment from player events.

I don't support 'player voting for the next GM' because it will be a popularity contest, but I would agree if a large portion of the player base thinks a GM or CM is not doing a good job, or considers a fault with how they behave then they should be reviewed and action taken where possible.

There are GM's and CM's I respect very much whom have always been helpful, Chaos and Freedom who get very little recognition for the work they do from the player's perspective which is why I wish redundant people would be replaced while those helpful people are not feeling like they're working over time for those waste of time Mods.

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Overall this thread has been an interesting read so far.

However, It concerns me quite a bit that there is a lot of mixing of myth, rumour, truth and reality.

 

All of our team members have guidelines to follow and a minimum expected level of behaviour which is higher than that of players for good reason; all of our team members are to varying degrees representatives of the whole team.

Where there are cases that you feel mistreated by a team member, or you witness any activity by a team member which is a clear abuse of position or power, then you must report that to their supervisors. For CAs and CMs this is the Lead Chat Moderator, for FMs it is the Lead Forum Moderator, for GMs or the Lead Chat/Forum Moderators it is the Head GM. If you have a complaint about the Head GM then it should be sent to Rolf.

We ask that you do not make public accusations against team members, substantiated or not, because they do not lead anywhere productive. We have a clear route for all complaints. In many cases public accusations are not substantiated or 'evidence' provided is not valid meaning the reputation of said staff member is unfairly diminished for no good reason.

If you feel that you have followed our complaint/appeals route and feel your issue has been ignored, please let me know and I will see what I can do in terms of communicating the reasons why any decision was reached.

But please note that you cannot report a team member just because you disagree with them, or don't like them for whatever reason, or heard a rumour that they might have done this or that. We can only act if you provide some evidence to support whatever complaint you have to make.

At the end of the day all members of the Wurm team are human and we all make minor mistakes from time to time and this is tolerated in light of the voluntary nature of our team. However obvious abuse of power or position or serious incompetence is not tolerated and has consequences.

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I've had my share of good and bad interactions with GMs in the game but I want to point out that every time I've dealt with Spellcast/Vali he's done a great job. 


In responding to tickets and reports that I've been involved with he's acted professionally and treated the players in the situations respectfully. In every case he's stuck to the rules but not in a harsh way and was willing to work with the people to get issues settled in a way that defused the problem rather than leaving everyone resentful.


Someone give him a 50% raise or something.


 


 


In my experience the forum moderation is slightly less positively slanted, sometimes it seems like the suggestion forum is one giant passive aggressive troll post. There could be some improvements made in the method of moderation.


By improvements I don't mean deleting more offending posts and closing more threads, good moderators should encourage discussion instead of smothering it. I give a lot of credit to the staff who have participated in this thread for engaging rather than shutting down.


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I've had my share of good and bad interactions with GMs in the game but I want to point out that every time I've dealt with Spellcast/Vali he's done a great job. 

In responding to tickets and reports that I've been involved with he's acted professionally and treated the players in the situations respectfully. In every case he's stuck to the rules but not in a harsh way and was willing to work with the people to get issues settled in a way that defused the problem rather than leaving everyone resentful.

Someone give him a 50% raise or something.

QFT, Spellcast for LCM

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 I give a lot of credit to the staff who have participated in this thread for engaging rather than shutting down.

 

Well the thing to remember is that staff members are heavily monitored when posting on forums and in game as well I suppose.  Most of us don't talk much because of that.  On the one hand we are encouraged to post and comment so that the community sees that we are active on the other hand, well two months about I posted 5 messages in the forums on one day and by the end of the day 3 had been removed because of "joke" that weren't appropriate for staff and other issues.  As a player they would have been fine, but as staff anything we post is analyzed and any minor issue generally has a player report the post and the post removed.   It does have a chilling effect on how much time we spend posting.

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Well the thing to remember is that staff members are heavily monitored when posting on forums and in game as well I suppose.  Most of us don't talk much because of that.  On the one hand we are encouraged to post and comment so that the community sees that we are active on the other hand, well two months about I posted 5 messages in the forums on one day and by the end of the day 3 had been removed because of "joke" that weren't appropriate for staff and other issues.  As a player they would have been fine, but as staff anything we post is analyzed and any minor issue generally has a player report the post and the post removed.   It does have a chilling effect on how much time we spend posting.

And yet, there are *several* GMs with segregated accounts, I know of at least one for whom his player account and GM account weren't even known to be the same person except for him having PMd me accidentally from the wrong toon to have a chat.

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As far as interactions go, something for staff and players alike to keep in mind, is that how we are approached/responded to makes a big difference in our interactions with each other. For example, when I am talking with an angry player, I try to remember that they aren’t angry at me (most of the time). But after several players vent at me for things I have no control over, I start getting a little annoyed that my playtime is being spent dealing with this instead of making silver to pay for deed upkeep or premium. I try very hard to stay professional, but it can be trying at times.


 


This probably lends support for the idea of having staff who are not players, but how much more are you willing to pay for premium to support more paid staff?


Note: this is in no way meant to provide support for staff or players who just behave badly, just something for all of us to think about.


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It is the GM's choice if they wish to be publicly known who their play account is linked to what gm account, and each gm makes his/her choice on it.


 


I would agree that it may seem that some staff are not doing anything from a player perspective.  What they may not be aware of is not all functions undertaken by the GM team involve responding to tickets from players.  So there are some GM's who put in very long hours each and every day on the game but not interacting with players.  Sadly this is viewed as them doing nothing since their work is not visible to everyone.  Everyone on the team has different interests, and if someone focuses on 100% bug testing, investigation, and confirmation, retesting etc. (as one of many examples)  that is a very valuable task, just one you will never see or hear about.


 


Does every staff post?  Some do more than others.  Sadly it seems to get less and less the longer you are staff.  Even myself I've found that when trying to post something useful you end up with players who jump on you regardless since they are angry at all staff.  We are human beings and it does affect us to some degree, and may lead to less posts.  Not to mention the more responsibilities you take on with staff the more paperwork there is.  Just keeping up with the paperwork can be a full time job in itself.  I hear all the time from players how they believe everything is secrets and lies and 'swept under the rug'.  You clearly have no concept of the paperwork / documentation / justification we have to do for everything.  There is no one out there solo from staff and all actions are peer reviewed.


 


I have expanded the ca/cm team considerably since I took over LCM.  We were up to over 50 CA/CM a while ago but it is down to 40 members now due to removals (both forced removals and inactivity removals)  Somewhere in this thread i remember it said something about being popular on a PVP server will get you hired, this is simply not true.  The primary consideration is your activity in chat helping players, which is why i added the note to the application thread about it.  I was simply getting far too many applications I had to deny for that reason alone.  Even players applying 2 and 3 times over many months with not a single line spoken in ca help chat between applications.  I think it only fair that you the players understand that if you are never helping players, you will never have the application accepted.  I assumed it to be self evident before, but it must not be based on the amount of applications I reject for it.


 


Some or most players may not believe me, but I can only say over and over that staff complaints are taken extremely seriously.  But what some consider a valid complaint can... well....  vary wildly.  I can only say if you do have a complaint, explain it since the ones that come in saying "this person is not a good ca" do me no good.  And I'm being serious, a 7 word complaint and then the players are upset the ca is not fired immediately with no evidence or even any information at all.  Mistakes are made, no doubt.  Usually they are minor and learning experiences staff can improve from, but if necessary they will be removed.  And yes, we are generally harder on staff.  We will reprimand staff for borderline issues that we would saying absolutely nothing about if a regular player did them.


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Even players applying 2 and 3 times over many months with not a single line spoken in ca help chat between applications.  I think it only fair that you the players understand that if you are never helping players, you will never have the application accepted.

I really hope you ask large numbers of other people before making that call, just because someone doesn't answer during your playtime hours means nothing. I used to hold the fort 8+ hours a night whilst all other staff who would answer questions were offline (virtually the entire trough period) and was told multiple times I was doing nothing in CA Help because the staff on server were offline and didn't see it.

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Peer Review = Self Regulation. There is not a single example anywhere in existence to show that this methodology works.


 


What would have happened if BP had been allowed to self regulate the Gulf oil spill? How many times did they lie about the amount of oil leaking from the well head?


It is simply the height of ridiculousness to think that someone accused of something can or will take the blame just because they are that kind of person. Its human nature to get out of trouble. And if that means lying, spinning, cya's or any other means , they will do it. its one of the very few things one can trust about people.


 


I am not your enemy


I am not your friend


I am a customer


I do not want to have to trust you


I do not want you to have to trust me


 


Put in an Oversight Committee.


Edited by sunsvortex
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We all know that staff is an elite group. If you didn't make the cut early on and your not good at your kissing game, you're not getting staff now no matter how helpful you are.


 


I have reported staff a number of times with more then sufficient evidence of foul play and the answer is always "We will look into it" later down the road they end up with a promotion or you seek follow up and you're told "it was faked" or some other form of them calling you a liar.


 


Staff whether they are volunteers are not, CA included automatically have a shield of power whether they are acting in staff capacity or not. Any person even in real life when given a position of authority the lesser people (the people of non-power) are looking up at that person as there word is gold whether it is false or not. So the staff members either directly or indirectly are abusing their powers consistently. However any person speaking out against the staff is automatically a bad guy, given a warning for challenging moderation, and all the staff buddies or kiss asses jump on the band wagon of "report it to the lead if you dont like it".


 


CA is more times then not trash. Aether has been declined for staff more times then forever because of staff members that don't like him but he is more helpful in CA then CA staff who have been in position for years on end. However due to the  current hard on that certain staff members have for him such as the one who approves CA's he is told he can't have that position. One reason being he is told he trolls to much.... Wait somewhere in this thread I am sure I found a post from a staff member that said "we're just players too but volunteer staff with responsibilities"... Oh wait so you can be a troll when your in staff but you cant be a troll when becoming staff? Make's sense.


 


Point is the staff in this game sucks from the bottom.... to the top. Don't like it, don't play it. Silakka, stop with the kissing game, your terrible at it and always have been.


 


Ive been playing this game for many years. I have more logs, screenshots, forum logs and more of abusive staff then one could count. Find someone who has played this game and been active in it in more then just "WTS 50ql hammer with 60circle" and you will find even more stories. Find any player on the PvP servers they will have more stories then posts in the skirmishes and random kills thread in the chaos section. Period no questions asked. 


 


inb4 warning and this post is mod'ed.


 


Anyone who knows me knows I'm a person who keeps thorough records of everything from logs to screenshots. Does this count in the name and shame protection or am I not allowed to do all that because you guys are staff?


 


giphy.gif


 


#Getwrecked


 


Edit: New staff bubble protection - Greasygrundle has been renamed to bloodscythe on the forums because of an "urban dictionary" definition for greasygrundle... So his forum name was deemed offensive, does that mean he is getting a free in-game rename for his name being offensive? Just curious what the ruling is now on renames since the  "name rule" is now being enforced somewhere lol...Stop deciding where and when you want to moderate. Either do your job 100% of the time or don't do it at all and people won't "hate" (as staff and staff kissers call it, I like to call it "hold accountable") on you.  :)


 


#ThisIsntEvenShotsFired #ThisIsJustTruth 


 


you-cant-handle-the-truth-meme-generator


Edited by necroe
Moderation Edit
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-snip

New staff bubble protection - Greasygrundle has been renamed to bloodscythe on the forums because of an "urban dictionary" definition for greasygrundle... So his forum name was deemed offensive, does that mean he is getting a free in-game rename for his name being offensive? Just curious what the ruling is now on renames since the  "name rule" is now being enforced somewhere lol...Stop deciding where and when you want to moderate. Either do your job 100% of the time or don't do it at all and people won't "hate" (as staff and staff kissers call it, I like to call it "hold accountable") on you.

 

PLEASE For me, And everyone who have yet to hear about this "RENAMING IS BANNED", Show & link the rule "Developers are not allowed to rename players in-game, Or forums as they see fit". Im really curious to know when and where they disallowed themselves from fixing a blind mistake or over-looked something.

 

Just wow "Does that mean he is getting a FREE in-game rename for his name being offensive?" 

This right here infuriates me so much, If the rules weren't modified today & warnings handed out, I probably would have had a nice little rant here about how much you make me sick right now.

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Renames are not new at all for offensive names, most are caught not long out of the tutorial or some even before they make it through there, but what may be offensive to one person may mean nothing at all to someone else, so unless the name is reported and looked into then no one will know. There are tons of players out there who have had a rename, just not for anything whimsical, the rules are clear about the naming of your character.


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@Ruger you're the perfect example of the modern hater in our community :)

I can and could report u for berating and deframing my reputation without any solid proof.. And even if u had the proof, all staff related things would go to LCM/HGM.. Just handle it properly please.

First of all you 'attacked' me and dear Greasygrundle only based on your feelings.

Saying i was on MRs side is totally ridiculous :D most of those guys removed me from friendlist when i decided to go neutral and professional aka not work in their favor or just that i had a different point of view, which imo should be respected?. I also warned/banned + hide posts of MR members.. Not because i suddenly disliked them or anything, but clearly because rules are the same for every single player.

And some of the MR members did take it personally (idk why) and are surprised that im so friendly out of nowhere in casual enviroment. Staff business is just staff business, dear.

You also have no clear proof to back up ur claims, which makes it even more fun to read.. You just point a finger at me and hope for something.. It's not how it works, u seriously do need some evidence as many staff already stated -.-.

And then judging GG about his name change.

If some see it offensive and it starts to get tiny reports repeadetly, then especially for staff it is important to pick more suitable name if community 'whines' enough about it. Not like he wanted it, but was kind of forced. This is not too rare and as stated in here, those offensive names that get enough reports - those do get a change.

I wanna be friendly and fair.. Thats how i usually am :) even when we talked as staff member + regular player. U never seemed unsatiafied when we dealt with issues.. You just have pent up anger that u are unable to release in a constructive good way.. So im kind of safe to say you're full of doodoo

You could present ur opinions and thoughts in a way that wont offend others and wont get removed.. But seems more like u just wanna be a meanie. So if ur post gets hidden, it's ok to hide mine too.

Edited by silakka
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Brb reporting my own toon for being offensive (as I found out it's a term for japanese homosexual cartoons) + a pop culture reference which is against the game rules so I can change the name


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To Players and Staff:

 

I don't usually make a note of it, but in this case, just as a FYI I do customer support for a living, and have for over 20 years. People actually pay me for this. Bear that in mind, and ya might learn something. :)

 

As players we can't typically have it both ways.

 

We can't expect the in game staff to maintain the utmost of professionalism at all times, and yet joke around and have fun with us as well on those same accounts that they play with.
The reason being, is that everyone's sense of humor is different. What one person finds hilarious, the other may find offensive, or off colour.

 

Therefore, prohibition on such joking around is typically rigorously enforced for staff. Which results in more resentment. Both from them, and from the people who they support who ultimately end up as seeing them as tongue depressors with eyes drawn on them. (Think 2D stick image here.)

 

When one's play account is separated from one's staff account, it then allows the staff a large amount of leeway to 'have fun' with the players, without threat of reprisal.
An example I like to make of this is Blizzard's customer support staff.

 

They're staffed by people who play the game. However, they also aren't in your Alliance (Guild) or playing on your server with that account name. There's NEVER a conflict of interest. They'll NEVER be called upon to make a ruling for or against an Alliance member.

 

Thus, they can joke around, have fun, and make your support experience as fun and enjoyable as possible.

 

However, though they may play the game they support,  and even COULD be on your server or in your guild/alliance, you'll likely never, EVER, know who their in game accounts are. Heck, they could be your next door neighbor, and unless you recognize the voice, you'd never know.

 

This is done for very important security reasons.

 

When you have the staff having public facing accounts, you are seriously asking for problems and reprisals from people who didn't agree with a decision that was made. You WILL make enemies, and they WILL make your online time hell.

 

Anyone who voluntarily lists their normal play account as their staff account... buckle in. You've just signed on for a rocket ride.

The cat is out of the bag for all current staff, however in the future, I'd suggest making it MANDATORY that all new staff pick a new name for their support accounts, that is nowhere near anything similarly named to their play account.

 

Like if their PVP play account is, say, xXDeathReaperXx, then their support should be something like Robert_Jones, or whatever. Something that'd never tie them to 'Death Reaper'.
Also, it needs to be made known to other staff that you SHUT UP about people's staff names. Period.

 

And make disclosing such information a perma-ban offense. That's the only way you'll EVER get it under control.

 

As staff: There is a delicate balance to walk. Been there, done that, but obviously not in this game. Does not make the experience any less relevant, however.

 

When you wear that 'staff' tag, whatever it may be, you are seen as the 'official' representative of the product you represent. With all the good and bad that goes with it.

You are also accessible. Hate WILL be taken out on you for things you didn't do. Things that another staff may have done will reflect upon you. All it takes is for a player to be jaded approximately twice (or once very badly) by another staff member, and all staff members from then forward are spawn of the devil. ;)

 

That's just human nature. Get abused by a cop once or twice who's on a power trip, and you'll never look at the whole group the same ever again, for the rest of your life. Doesn't matter if the individual in question did nothing. It's who they're associated with that sticks in the mind.

As staff you must be intimately aware of that.

 

Re: Staff aren't paid: This is just pure out and out stupid, and will bite you in the rear more than anything. If the staff are not paid in some fashion, they WILL be seen as corrupt. Heck, make it some token amount. $50 a month, if CodeClub is so darn broke. SOMETHING.

 

No one accuses Blizzard's support staff of being corrupt. They are paid. There is zero conflict of interests. They do their job, they go home, they play on their PLAY accounts.
They don't play support staff all day long and then play on their support staff accounts.

 

Granted the way Wurm is set up is a bit different, but positive changes can easily be made.

 

As for the Greasygrundle thing, and rename, I'd never had any experience with them outside of the forum, and there I've found them to be an absolute pleasure to read their posts. They've always been trying to get people to focus on the positive, and to not bash or belittle other players, as long as I've been a part of the forum. They've truly been nothing but a pleasure to be around on the forum.

 

So whatever happened there with someone 'reporting' his name or whatever was just pure vindictive crap and had nothing to do with anything. I can guarantee you that no one was truly 'offended' by his handle, which was so utterly obscure that not one in a million people would know what the 'urban' dictionary definition of that was. Heck, I didn't. And I'm sitting in my library surrounded by several thousand books right now, all of which I've read. And I still had no clue what the 'urban' definition was until I looked it up. So the chance of some random player being 'offended' by that? Didn't happen. Not unless they went digging for dirt in the first place and already had a problem with GG and was looking for something... anything... to get back at them with.

 

This is an example of the point I'm trying to make. Public staff names the same as their play accounts WILL result in reprisal from 'offended' players. Whether the staff in question has done anything wrong or not. They are still very large targets of opportunity.

Back to GG. Players like to make clever and perhaps humorous names. As they were a player before staff, this is fine. As I said, not one in a million would know what urban definition, and if someone did get it without looking it up, kudos to them.

 

However, as a STAFF name, yea, that's not appropriate. Another reason they should remain separate. Except that no one should have ever known that the new Bloodscythe is GG.

 

@Silakka Your intention in creating this thread may have been good, but honestly, as a former staff member yourself, how did you think this thread was going to turn out?
Also, a former staff member creating a thread praising staff is one thing. Your OP is... how shall we say... 'gushing', and then proceeds to attack the playerbase for their perceptions. Did you really think people were going to trot out the flowers and cookies for you?

 

I will tell you this. Most people will see this thread you created as brown-nosing and/or sucking up, and that's never received well. Even if your intentions were 100% on the up and up, you should have realized that. And your continued 'defense' of your former peers, whilst at the same time defending your own past position, and at the same time managing to juggle ripostes with the disgruntled playerbase... you really just need to stop now before you dig the hole deeper, mate. Though your intention may have been good, you are now just making things worse and polarizing the players against the staff. Your OP backfired. Give it a rest. Seriously. Before you do even more unintentional damage to the image of the people you're trying to praise.

 

Now for the soup to nuts actual advice to staff.

 

Hard point suggestions:

 

  • Term limits for staff. Whatever you like, just some reasonable limit. A year sounds fair to me. After which, your staff term is up, and you have to take a 3 month break from being staff before re-applying. Past service and track record will be taken into account, but no favortism should be shown. History hath shewn that 'lifetime politicians' are very bad news. Term limits keep things honest.

 

  • Mandatory separated play and staff accounts. (Effective ASAP) This includes all existing staff. If necessary remove the CA_Help channel completely (other than a perma-link) and use another chat host that people can follow the url to when linked from the in game help channel. There, your helper will be 100% anonymous and you'll have no idea who BiggBaddWolff is ingame. All you'll know, is they helped you solve your problem. And, if there is bad blood, there can be no in game reprisals.

 

  • Perception is everything. Let me say that again. Perception is EVERYTHING. It doesn't matter whether your staff is the most honest since Honest Abe Lincoln. No one is going to believe it if they have the perception of underhanded crap going on. Failing to address serious customer concerns or ignoring customers, or worse... calling them liars, will result in the perception of corruption. Whether it's true or not at that point is pretty irrelevent. Your reputation is forever tarnished. (See 'bad cop' example above.)

 

  • You never treat the customer poorly. It doesn't matter what they do or what they say. You never, EVER, have the right to call a customer a liar. Even if they are. (I'm looking at YOU, el Jefe!) It's just piss poor manners, and low class. You need to be better than that. As the old saying goes... doodoo flows downhill. The staff will only be as good as the people at the top, and treating the customer poorly is never acceptable, under any circumstances. I don't care what they did, or said. Be better than that. This should be self evident.

TL:DR. There is none. Read everything I wrote. Three times if necessary, if you actually want to improve things.

 

Update: I did think of a TL:DR. It's Gary Oldman in The Professional saying: "I haven't got time for this Mickey Mouse Bull****!" That about sums it up. :)

 

Edited for formatting. The forum hates my word processor. :P
 

Edited by Belrindor
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Why is everyone flipping out over a name change. I had to change one of my chars name too. But there is a level of common sense. Some words everyone know are offensive other words you'd have to Google search to find out. Duh.

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Why is everyone flipping out over a name change. I had to change one of my chars name too. But there is a level of common sense. Some words everyone know are offensive other words you'd have to Google search to find out. Duh.

 

If someone has to Google something to find out it's offensive, then they weren't offended by it, were they? ;)

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@MamaDarkness
 

 

The primary consideration is your activity in chat helping players, which is why i added the note to the application thread about it.  I was simply getting far too many applications I had to deny for that reason alone.  Even players applying 2 and 3 times over many months with not a single line spoken in ca help chat between applications.  I think it only fair that you the players understand that if you are never helping players, you will never have the application accepted.  I assumed it to be self evident before, but it must not be based on the amount of applications I reject for it.

 

Actually no, that's not self-evident at all. A lot of people don't post in the CA_HELP tab at all, simply because they either think that it's for 'official responses' only (the most common) or they've been 'run off' by an over-zealous CA telling them to 'take it to Freedom' when all they were doing was giving the person asking for help a more in-depth and thorough answer. so yea, might want to make sure that the folks who are applying for staff positions KNOW that it is a PREREQUISITE to have to help out in CA_HELP PRIOR TO APPLYING.

 

Because folks who just want to help out may have no idea, and you may be rejecting people who would be great staff, because no one had any idea about your unwritten criteria for acceptance.

Edited by Belrindor
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Wurm staff may not be paid for legal reasons. If they get even 1$ salary for their work, then they're entitled for minium wage, and codeclub cannot afford that. So it has to be all free or that.

Also reason im 'defending' myself is because it's a personal attack to me, and theres either option to report or respond.

99% time i dont bother to respond as it's just silly accusations as usual, just wanted to try something different.

If me being on my side or on staffs side seems like asskissing or something then sure.. see it as u may, but berating and belittling others only makes u look lower when u cant find any other arguments.

Maybe im naive to always hope the best in my intentions and word, but if it works even a little.. why not..

This thread took bigger downhill than i thought, just because some rather spread accusations in disrespectful manners rather than doing it constructive right way.

I still wanna give this little more time, as majority is also having refreshing great points on both sides, so atleast a lock isnt necessary yet

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Wurm staff may not be paid for legal reasons. If they get even 1$ salary for their work, then they're entitled for minium wage, and codeclub cannot afford that. So it has to be all free or that.

Also reason im 'defending' myself is because it's a personal attack to me, and theres either option to report or respond.

99% time i dont bother to respond as it's just silly accusations as usual, just wanted to try something different.

If me being on my side or on staffs side seems like asskissing or something then sure.. see it as u may, but berating and belittling others only makes u look lower when u cant find any other arguments.

Maybe im naive to always hope the best in my intentions and word, but if it works even a little.. why not..

This thread took bigger downhill than i thought, just because some rather spread accusations in disrespectful manners rather than doing it constructive right way.

I still wanna give this little more time, as majority is also having refreshing great points on both sides, so atleast a lock isnt necessary yet

 

It may have taken a massive dive, But it is good to vent this kind of stuff, From staff, Former staff, And the player base itself. As-well its a bit of an eye opener for some people in the community, Best to have everyone aware of this than just a blind eye to it. 

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Bollocks. Have you ever heard of 'contract' work? They aren't paid a 'minimum wage' .They are paid for the work they contract to do. A pre-negotiated sum. I absolutely cannot believe that Sweden doesn't have contractors FFS.


 


Edit: Thought of an easy workaround. Pay them in in-game silver. Say... 20 to 50 silver a month.


 


They can then sell that silver via Paypal if they wish, or keep it, their choice. Problem solved.


Edited by Belrindor

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Bollocks. Have you ever heard of 'contract' work? They aren't paid a 'minimum wage' .They are paid for the work they contract to do. A pre-negotiated sum. I absolutely cannot believe that Sweden doesn't have contractors FFS.

 

Edit: Thought of an easy workaround. Pay them in in-game silver. Say... 20 to 50 silver a month.

 

They can then sell that silver via Paypal if they wish, or keep it, their choice. Problem solved.

 

OR you know, They can do what their already doing... Volunteer work.. Problem solved?!

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To Players and Staff:

 

I don't usually make a note of it, but in this case, just as a FYI I do customer support for a living, and have for over 20 years. People actually pay me for this. Bear that in mind, and ya might learn something. :)

 

As players we can't typically have it both ways.

 

We can't expect the in game staff to maintain the utmost of professionalism at all times, and yet joke around and have fun with us as well on those same accounts that they play with.

The reason being, is that everyone's sense of humor is different. What one person finds hilarious, the other may find offensive, or off colour.

 

Therefore, prohibition on such joking around is typically rigourously enforced for staff. Which results in more resentment. Both from them, and from the people who they support who ultimately end up as seeing them as tongue depressors with eyes drawn on them. (Think 2D stick image here.)

 

When one's play account is separated from one's staff account, it then allows the staff a large amount of leeway to 'have fun' with the players, without threat of reprisal.

An example I like to make of this is Blizzard's customer support staff.

 

They're staffed by people who play the game. However, they also aren't in your Alliance (Guild) or playing on your server with that account name. There's NEVER a conflict of interest. They'll NEVER be called upon to make a ruling for or against an Alliance member.

 

Thus, they can joke around, have fun, and make your support experience as fun and enjoyable as possible.

 

However, though they may play the game they support,  and even COULD be on your server or in your guild/alliance, you'll likely never, EVER, know who their in game accounts are. Heck, they could be your next door neighbor, and unless you recognize the voice, you'd never know.

 

This is done for very important security reasons.

 

When you have the staff having public facing accounts, you are seriously asking for problems and reprisals from people who didn't agree with a decision that was made. You WILL make enemies, and they WILL make your online time hell.

 

Anyone who voluntarily lists their normal play account as their staff account... buckle in. You've just signed on for a rocket ride.

The cat is out of the bag for all current staff, however in the future, I'd suggest making it MANDATORY that all new staff pick a new name for their support accounts, that is nowhere near anything similarily named to their play account.

 

Like if their PVP play account is, say, xXDeathReaperXx, then their support should be something like Robert_Jones, or whatever. Something that'd never tie them to 'Death Reaper'.

Also, it needs to be made known to other staff that you SHUT UP about people's staff names. Period.

 

And make disclosing such information a perma-ban offense. That's the only way you'll EVER get it under control.

I think that in a perfect world, this would be ideal. However, there is a big difference between big games, such as WoW, and Wurm Online when you look at staff. In Wurm, there are much fewer players, which automatically makes staff very high profile. It's very difficult to hide, especially on PvP servers. For a while, I was just "disguised" as a CM, with a secret GM account. It went well for a while, but it didn't take too long for someone (....posteh) to figure out that Kratos was me. When there are so few players, some people definitely have intentions to figure out who is who.

Making disclosing such information a perma-ban offense is incredibly harsh and very hard to justify. It's also likely people will just share the information in different ways, through voice communications for example, making it nearly impossible to get any evidence to make a case.

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