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Rolf

Discuss Epic plz

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If epic got map reset or skill reset (or both) i will probably quit too much time invested to be shafted again by rolf.


Sure fix hota,valrei and craters but the deeds all the kingdoms have made just tossed with no consideration drives me mad.


W/e else they add to epic im fine with. Rolf already it up ages ago.


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Uberknot enough with the move to Chaos crap - we play Epic because we choose to - and choose not to play Chaos, I for one play both but I do not want to only play on Chaos. And no I wasnt around in wild days , the point was Rolf will have to just make his own mind up in the end and do whats best for the game not just a select vocal few who have their own self interests at heart.


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Uberknot enough with the move to Chaos crap - we play Epic because we choose to - and choose not to play Chaos, I for one play both but I do not want to only play on Chaos. And no I wasnt around in wild days , the point was Rolf will have to just make his own mind up in the end and do whats best for the game not just a select vocal few who have their own self interests at heart.

 

 

*cough *cough....exactly....I think Elevation has been trying to remove Home Servers from day 1.

 

Anyhow make the game and combat fun and they will all come to play.  Fix the clunkiness and update the combat UI towards what today's PvPers like and you will have droves.  Removing players and/or  islands will only lose players for the game and give it a bad reputation not a good thing to do if you are trying to have more players involved.

Edited by Uberknot

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If Elevation has been trying to get rid of home servers since day one, its a pity Rolf didn't listen earlier lol and yes the combat UI definitely needs fixing :)


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I think,

 

First of all get rid of the home servers on epic. Combine them all into one server. Probably the size of chaos. (Not Xanadu, far too big for a pvp server) A lot of ppl would leave and go to freedom. But the ones that stayed would be pvp people, instead of what we have now which is tons of people who want to play on freedom, but want the epic skill gain. Essentially a map reset and consolidation, not a skill reset. Also, if you are going to reset the servers then instead of asking here and letting all of freedom and whoever else that doesn't even play on epic have a say. I think only active premium toons should get a say, maybe with the voting system like BL got for their home server reset. 

The increased skill gain from what epic is now is just a bad idea. Current skill gain is fast enough. It just invites more people who want skill gain and not pvp to come make deeds and sit around not pvping and complaining about the pvp that does happen. I'm sorry but freedom characters should play on freedom. There is nothing wrong with playing that way, but it is not what epic is for. And coming for the free skill gain and then complaining about pvp is just crap.

Probably getting rid of the /who if you didn't combine the servers like some other people said.

And stop giving epic's "special" incentives to everyone just because they qq about it. Like senario rewards on chaos. The stuff we worked hard for for months, they got in days for basically nothing. They had more tomes then we did in literally one day. It cheapens the hard work people on epic put in.

Clearly something needs to be done, because as it is the servers are dying. What you decide to do is up to you, but really reading through the actual suggestions and picking out the trolling nonsense I think will help.  I think a big part of what is going to make a difference is deciding what you want to do and sticking to it, until you have finished. Because the way I see it epic is half done and because of the population does not get the attention it needs and deserves. But because it does not get the attention it deserves the population is worse and worse. It's just self-perpetuating and it won't get better without help.

Probably a lot of stuff other people already said, but that's where I would start.

Edited by amberain80
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the home servers are just terrible.  I spent a year on affliction and stopped looking for pvp because it took hours to find anyone to fight and then they were usually hiding behind their fortified town.  I rarely went out to pvp, and in all the time I was on Affliction my city ( was 53x53) was never raided and drained.


 


I've been thinking about the chaos sized map suggestion and I think Xanadu is perfect for pvp - if you removed the restrictions of kingdom vs kingdom.  If it was FFA pvp a big map would be fine, since you'd be able to find pvp everywhere you go.


Edited by sweatygopher

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Ideally the entirety of the pvping playerbase should be on one server(or at the very least the same cluster) as many people already pointed out. I don't really feel like spending more words on something that has been stated in so many colours already but it being impossible to merge all pvp servers into a single cluster does feel like a dilemma to me :(, all groups lose out on action right now unless they have accounts on both clusters. Finding a realistic solution to that seems like it is the holy grail for a successful pvp server. The only thing I can think of is the very same as Atlas' idea: Create a new server/cluster that actually works when it comes to pvp, stop promoting the older clusters and take them offline when the population is depleted. And even this sucks big time because everyone who plays on those clusters now still ends up losing everything they have ever done.


 


As for Epic itself...


Redo Valrei (and missions, and scenario endings, and reward distribution), design something fun, Let the players review your draft, do not try to hide the rules or rewards, it will end up upsetting a large portion of your players and is usually a huge source of imbalance. Don't release it if it doesn't work yet. This Valrei system should be the main reason for people to play on Epic, at least I think that's what the original intention was.


Create something truly "epic only" to draw players (maybe something like leader boards but not with rank because that's doesn't represent anything in particular), oh and make sure it stays Epic only.


recurring events like hota, but for Epic only and not as frequent as hota (once per 2 months or so, or maybe seasonal) (e.g. a capture the flag kind of thing where kingdoms have to steal a token from an enemy home server and bring it to the center of Elevation)


Find reasons for home server players to go to Elevation and perform activities to benefit their kingdom on Elevation. (i.e. rewards that benefit home server deeds (maybe enchant bonus?) for say.. doing hota)


 


There are also some other things I personally feel would benefit the game if they were changed, not to draw more players but to promote pvp to the already existing playerbase:


-There is the well known snowballing effect of big kingdoms staying on top and reaping all rewards while small kingdoms can't do anything at all at things that are designed to promote pvp (battle camps, hota, ...), try considering changes that would allow small groups to compete with large groups. For example hand out rewards for every pillar captured during a hota instead of only rewarding the winning group at the end. This way it still makes sense to try and capture at least one pillar as a small kingdom, even though you know it will be nearly impossible to win against a bigger kingdom that is also doing hota, you will still come out succesful if you lose the hota (if you don't die that is).


-Carefully reconsider meditation abilities from a pvp perspective.


-Same with priests.


-There are several very old bugs that directly influence pvp at times that really need fixing, index pvp related bugs, try to find out what bugs are deemed most annoying by the community (THROWN HORSES HGJSDKHGL) and spend some time fixing them.


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Again the core group calling for homeservers to go don't play on them.

And like I said, homeservers are crucial for new pvping groups to get their start. That's how mine did, going to BLH and draining some deeds to work the whole pvp thing out.

As it has been said time and time again, make more reasons to move to elevation, not to quit the homeservers.

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I think,

 

First of all get rid of the home servers on epic. Combine them all into one server. Probably the size of chaos. (Not Xanadu, far too big for a pvp server) A lot of ppl would leave and go to freedom. But the ones that stayed would be pvp people, instead of what we have now which is tons of people who want to play on freedom, but want the epic skill gain. Essentially a map reset and consolidation, not a skill reset. Also, if you are going to reset the servers then instead of asking here and letting all of freedom and whoever else that doesn't even play on epic have a say. I think only active premium toons should get a say, maybe with the voting system like BL got for their home server reset. 

The increased skill gain from what epic is now is just a bad idea. Current skill gain is fast enough. It just invites more people who want skill gain and not pvp to come make deeds and sit around not pvping and complaining about the pvp that does happen. I'm sorry but freedom characters should play on freedom. There is nothing wrong with playing that way, but it is not what epic is for. And coming for the free skill gain and then complaining about pvp is just crap.

Probably getting rid of the /who if you didn't combine the servers like some other people said.

And stop giving epic's "special" incentives to everyone just because they qq about it. Like senario rewards on chaos. The stuff we worked hard for for months, they got in days for basically nothing. They had more tomes then we did in literally one day. It cheapens the hard work people on epic put in.

Clearly something needs to be done, because as it is the servers are dying. What you decide to do is up to you, but really reading through the actual suggestions and picking out the trolling nonsense I think will help.  I think a big part of what is going to make a difference is deciding what you want to do and sticking to it, until you have finished. Because the way I see it epic is half done and because of the population does not get the attention it needs and deserves. But because it does not get the attention it deserves the population is worse and worse. It's just self-perpetuating and it won't get better without help.

Probably a lot of stuff other people already said, but that's where I would start.

pve players play here cause they cant just go and kill some idiot that is maybe grieving there deed or what ever.

 

i like it for that reason and i don't see the point of being totally safe even on home servers there is some risk its not like elevation players cant come kill us and take our stuff risk versus reward.

 

i noticed on challenge some people don't want to make there armor and stuff or even help make the deed they just want to get out there and kill each other so you definitely need the pve players to craft your stuff .

 

 

i enjoy pvp i just don't enjoy wurm pvp .

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Its always about Elevation and them not being able to sustain enough people to PvP hardcore....always.  Why is that?


 


Blaming it on the Home ( Casual ) Servers is a cop out 100%.


 


As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet if you moved the Home Servers away from Elevation they would do even better.


 


Elevation on its own I don't think it could last.


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pve players play here cause they cant just go and kill some idiot that is maybe grieving there deed or what ever.

 

i like it for that reason and i don't see the point of being totally safe even on home servers there is some risk its not like elevation players cant come kill us and take our stuff risk versus reward.

 

i noticed on challenge some people don't want to make there armor and stuff or even help make the deed they just want to get out there and kill each other so you definitely need the pve players to craft your stuff .

 

 

i enjoy pvp i just don't enjoy wurm pvp .

If you enjoy pvp, but not wurm pvp. Then play wurm on a pve server.  And for the people who don't want to pvp, stop trying to add your two cents on a pvp server. It literally doesn't make sense.

Edited by amberain80
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Its always about Elevation and them not being able to sustain enough people to PvP hardcore....always. Why is that?

Blaming it on the Home ( Casual ) Servers is a cop out 100%.

As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet if you moved the Home Servers away from Elevation they would do even better.

Elevation on its own I don't think it could last.

Careful now. ;) this is a touchy subject for jk, but it's a very valid point.

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Again the core group calling for homeservers to go don't play on them.

And like I said, homeservers are crucial for new pvping groups to get their start. That's how mine did, going to BLH and draining some deeds to work the whole pvp thing out.

As it has been said time and time again, make more reasons to move to elevation, not to quit the homeservers.

This.

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Ok Rolf.

Lets have a talk.

You introduced challenge despite outcries that the challenge/epic server would essentially be using the same playerbase, thus resulting in lower player populations at both places.

You abandoned epic quite some time ago in terms of dev time and left it halfdone, thus people lost interest.

Obvious flaws like mag being next to nathan, missions being downright impossible, one religon having multiple gods and more missions for karma, valrei-structure missions rewarding one person despite being a group project, etc were all left alone.

Dont even get me started on the fact you never bothered to make a proper ingame map for valrei nor explain for new players how it worked.

Even to this day most people lack clear knowledge of what the various tiles on valrei do.

The massive ammount of RNG that is valrei kinda makes scenarios feel less like a "game" and more like a dice roll at times.

The most unique and special effects of epic (the valrei related drops) were freely given to the other servers and in far higher quantities than epic, thus it feelt like epic lost its unique things... while at the same time epic players for eons werent allowed the 100 skill titles... Now epic seem to have "epic fisherman" as a 100 skill title for fishing while the freedom/chaos cluster got a more unique title "Hooked on fishing" etc... the players arent worthy of the real deal eh? Gotta love being second class players.

The whole demi-god / ascension system even to this day has had almost no visible presence for the world.

Oh and when epic actually had large forces clashing it resulted in unplayable lagg where both sides just walked home in dissapointment, elevation doesnt support the playerbase you desire.

 

 

In short: you directly split the playerbase with challenge, treated the players as secondary class players and abandoned the needed polishing of the servers game mechanics. And now players treat the servers in a similar fashion. or as you would put it "gg"

 

 

 

edit:

Oh and increasing skillgain is not how to make the server more appealing Rolf. thats how you get a brief influx of players who quit after a while. it doesnt work in the long run.

How about improving the actual gaming experience rather than hold shiny objects infront of players? Let the players get excited about the actual race rather than just the reward.

 

 

edit2:

And /who for each server DESTROYED raiding with ships (the most used pvp method). why didn't you make /who global for the epic cluster despite the outcry from pvpers?

And why does portals have a 1 hour cooldown to other clusters? Let players choose where they play, why would you LIMIT peoples enjoyment? a 10-15 min timer is fine, but an hour? comeon.

And why arent champs allowed to use portals along with all the other pvpers? responce time is the key to defense so obviously people are gonna use the portal if its faster... those poor champs are going to be left alone by their own people cuz its LOGICAL to not bother going in a ship with them. (this is comming from a ex-champ)

 

edit3:

How about making those fancy valrei effects have less irreversable mass destruction of the landscape? Instead of a big meteor and a massive hole in the map... how about a meteor shower over an area with a lot of minor bumps instead..? ya know... things that allow us to still live and play at the location...

The valrei pillars for example got slopes with such steepnes that a player can never modify them ever again.

 

05QT7WS.jpg

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If you enjoy pvp, but not wurm pvp. Then play wurm on a pve server and stop trying to add your two cents on a pvp server. It literally doesn't make sense.

can i suggest you read all of what i said not just pick the one point.

 

why shouldn't i be able to play where ever i want im paying the same money as you to be here i have played wurm for 14 years i think i found wurm when it was in its 2nd alpha map  or so pvp was fun then it wasnt  i dont code wurm i just play it.

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This.

I don't have a problem with people saying that home servers are where you should get your start. But tell us how long you have lived on the home server, when will you be done getting your start? The problem is not getting started, which tons of ppl have started and succeeded on elevation without ever living on the home server, but the majority of people never want to pvp. They just want the skill gain, and there is nothing to make you leave and put you into a place that encourages more pvp.

 I have been in the jkh alliance many times when someone is getting raided, and the biggest complaint is always "nobody will come to help, we have 40+ ppl on and only 6 coming to help." Because too many people are just here for the free skill gain.

If that doesn't apply to you then there is no reason to be offended. It does apply to many people there though. Nobody can deny that.

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Again the core group calling for homeservers to go don't play on them.

And like I said, homeservers are crucial for new pvping groups to get their start. That's how mine did, going to BLH and draining some deeds to work the whole pvp thing out.

As it has been said time and time again, make more reasons to move to elevation, not to quit the homeservers.

 

What this guy said! I came to Epic from Xanadu instead of Chaos because I wanted a chance to experience PvP and have more of a challenge in a game I actually enjoy playing! Home servers are amazing for noobs to get a feel of PvP before being tossed into the lions den to be killed by players with 3+ years experience under their belts. 

 

Converting it to one server would be like taking a Freedom player with 0 Fight Skill because they farm all day, and forcing them to survive on chaos! 

 

Add some appeal to Elevation other then 50+ QL materials and broken HOTA's. 

 

Also do as mentioned before, letting people in the tutorial know the benefits of Epic

 

 

If you enjoy pvp, but not wurm pvp. Then play wurm on a pve server.  And for the people who don't want to pvp, stop trying to add your two cents on a pvp server. It literally doesn't make sense.

 

Exactly!

Edited by takatsuki

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I don't have a problem with people saying that home servers are where you should get your start. But tell us how long you have lived on the home server, when will you be done getting your start? The problem is not getting started, which tons of ppl have started and succeeded on elevation without ever living on the home server, but the majority of people never want to pvp. They just want the skill gain, and there is nothing to make you leave and put you into a place that encourages more pvp.

I have been in the jkh alliance many times when someone is getting raided, and the biggest complaint is always "nobody will come to help, we have 40+ ppl on and only 6 coming to help." Because too many people are just here for the free skill gain.

If that doesn't apply to you then there is no reason to be offended. It does apply to many people there though. Nobody can deny that.

I agree that an issue is a willingness to pvp, even for defense, and that's something that could be fixed in other ways than just " get rid of the homeserver"

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That is the nice part about this game is i am not required to pvp and if you want all the people that dont pvp off epic you will be left with even less population then now

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Just put challenge north of elevation so you can sail there, then you can grind skills on home server kingdoms on ele, and battle royal on challenge all on the same account.

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takatsuki there's nothing stopping people from raiding you on the home server, so I don't see your point.  Elevation or home server, life is harsh as ever as a new player.


 


Hell, on the pve server life is harsh as ever.  On the PVP server it is pure hell!  Have you ever had a drake spirit camp your deed before when you have 5 fs?


 


There seems to be a misconception that the PVP is the problem keeping new players from enjoying Epic.  This is not the case at all.


 


It is the PVE that is causing the issues.  NoGumps, Drake Spirits, random meteors that hit your house and the inability to attack your neighbor who is of the other faction but playing an alt and griefing you are some of the main reasons people quit playing on epic.


 


Of the year I spent on affliction If I didn't seek out pvp, and I mean really seek it out...  I would never have pvp'd the whole time.  The pvp is so rare, and most people on the home servers treat the game as PVE and not PVP.


Edited by sweatygopher

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So,

 

there has been suggestions about Elevation receiving a (map) reset for quite a while now. The population on Epic doesn't seem helped by the Challenge servers and Epic is dwindling not fulfilling it's potential.

 

Please make suggestions on how you think we could change Elevation and possibly the other Epic servers in order to make them more interesting.

 

A combination of a new Elevation map more like the Dominance map (possibly one size larger?), increasing skillgain on Epic to 1/8th to 1/2 of the Challenge skillgain rate, as well as adding some Challenge prices to Epic Scenarios maybe would revive Epic?

 

Some version of the central depot spawns and possibly the odd treasure chest on Elevation could be interesting as well.

 

That said, our next focus is bringing bridges to you!

 

/Rolf

Skill gain is very good on Epic it doesn't need any boost. Reset is maybe bring few ppl, but current base who plays now will quit.

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Ahh the ole you don't PvP like I want you to Arguments..LOL  Luv it... ;)


 


 


That's it done here now that its come down to whether or not a player PvP's like some other player thinks they should...


 


Elevation has a problem good luck fixing it..... o/

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I would say amber brings up a great point though. There could be a little more reason to pvp, on home servers especially. Say, each tab you're on you get another scenario ticket? Something like that maybe.

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One thing that seems clear is our number of servers are far too many, making thin player counts on each server, which is bad for the game. People play MMO games because of the social aspect. So I propose:

1. Close all but the single most popular PvE and PvP servers, then add a new large PvE and PvP server.

2. Anyone on a collapsed server that had existing deeds, will get an ingame credit (non tradable) of some amount that is in relation to their existing deed size and length of time deeded (longer time deeded, more work will have been put into it over the years).

3. Credit can be used to buy new deed and apply to upkeep.

4. Any characters on servers that can't travel to the remaining servers will just get wiped, but skill credits will be issued and can be used to "rebuild" on the remaining servers. This one requires some deep thinking to make sure it is implemented in a fair way that can't be abused or doesn't screw over the player.

5. For those that were forced to lose their homes and move, give a 1 sec action timer that can be used for 3 days. Player can turn on and off, like SB.

Probably a ton I am not addressing, but I've been a huge fan of consolidating servers, since Xanadu was announced. Every other MMO will reduce servers to increase player density, as the MMO ages. Wurm is the only one I have seen that just keeps adding new servers and thinning player count, making it feel like a ghost town all the time. It just feels dead. When a game feels dead, people go elsewhere to try something crowded and exciting. When it is crowded, people tend to want to buy bigger deeds to protect the land around them. Wen there is nothing but untouched land for kilometers in any direction, why do anything more than a minimal deed? That is bad game economy.

Really good ideas. I like Edited by Kruggan

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