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Rolf

Discuss Epic plz

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I personally would like to play within a system that encouraged political PvP, alliances of fiefdoms, changes of loyalty, if honor had its own rewards to curb mindless skirmishes/killing.

 

Why have inflexible kingdoms with uninteresting mechanics, where everybody is lumped into red, blue, black team? If people don't belong to the right circles they won't be trusted anyway - even if they happen to become king/emperor :). So why not overhaul the alliance system to make it hierarchical? An alliance of players could join into a wider alliance. This way people can stick with their own circles, and still build a bigger team. At the top level, these alliances pledge to one of the factions of PvP.

 

...

 

In an immersive PvP world it should be totally viable to play as a peasant or merchant profiting (or suffering) from the conflict without either being exposed to head-on PvP all the time or being secluded in some corner that is totally disconnected from the events of the fighting. You'd worry about the politics and the war, all that stuff that the nobles (or tyrants) are up to, but more in terms of how it would affect your business or freedom. Is that a pipe dream? :)

This is what I had in mind when suggesting getting rid of kingdoms.  Politics and diplomacy should be the number one element in sandbox PVP.  I don't even think we need much of an overhaul of alliance system (although it would be best).  Just have all villages at war by default, with the ability to join an alliance or become neutral with that village.  IMHO this is the ONLY change that will have a lasting impact on Epic.

 

I don't really know why new map keeps coming up, a new map won't solve anything but kill off existing invested players.  A new map doesn't fix any core issues that drove people away from the game.  If things like cr nerfs on home servers is truly an issue, remove it.  Who cares, you're still going to slaughter noobs, and you're still going to get slaughtered if caught by real defenders

 

There are groups of people that shouted nonstop saying there has to be map/skill resets to keep interests, and they quit and then play challenge, and then quit that too crying it's still the same game despite it being what they said epic should be.  And challenge itself seems to be dwindling in numbers each time and as time passed on.

 

Leave the things alone that would make players leave, and focus on the core issues instead.  Client being able to handle large groups in local without crashing or lagging, memory leak, pvp tweaks and fixes, valrei, holes in the ground, etc

Gary is right with this post.  95% of these suggestions are results of small minded 'In The Box' thinking.  While Gary is right on the need for technical issues to be addressed, the only way for Epic to have a lasting and intriguing end game is to fundamentally alter they way we interact with each other.  Instead of arguing over which variables need tweaked and in which direction, the discussion needs to be which variables need to go and what new ones need added.

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i dont understand why people keep saying that if you want PVP then you dont need home servers cause pvp'ers should want to pvp etc etc


 


there arent 2 kinds of players, thats way to easily formulated.


just looks at the server numbers, there are more people on the homeservers then on elevation


there are way more kind of players


no interest in PVP


only want to PVP


and EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN


 


I know a lot of people on home servers that like the risks of possbile PVP and the need to defend themselves but dont care about going out to look for a fight. stop trying to make this about how people should play the game and let people play like they want.


 


all the people i know that quit do it because of reasons that have nothing to do with how they pvp.


they quit because of: lag, memory leaks, game + deed to expensive, " ctd made me lose my gear" , lack of new content, borked features


 


In my opinion, turn this towards solving the actual issues and not try to get a clean restart of something that would still be broken...


 


-bridges.... ffs...get it done allready


-fix lag with large groups


-fix the memory leaks,


-increase the new player experience by makeing the starter deeds awesome and reduce agressive spawns close to them.


-fix trade, now that people have acces to making silver more easily without buying it maybe we can find easier ways to sell items to eachother which dont involve ugly scattered market stalls and no ability to search for what you want.


-fix valrei


-stop making giant holes that cant be fixed, i like the god events but they sohuld not be completely irreversible


-can we have a drag over from 1 container to another container auto system? put a timer on it , we know you like those.... but save people from having to drag over dirt from bsb to wagon to bsb again later on etc etc


 


and much much more.

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I live on JKH. I want home servers removed.


 


They are supposed to be PvP servers. Sure, I sit on my mountain top deed and don't actively seek PvP. However, if trouble comes knocking, I'll at least defend or die rather than log off with all my stuff on an 80/80/80 fighter with mid-level body stats (the average home server carebear account - perfectly capable of fighting).


 


It's a PvP server. If you live there, you should expect PvP. These servers were bastardized from the original plan from the beginning and are no longer starting servers. They are servers for people to live permanently with little to no risk where they can just log off when some actual PvP happens. They don't fit the PvP atmosphere and should be removed.


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Too little, too late.


 


Sorry Rolf, but you missed the boat on handling the Epic situation by about 18 months, if not more. There are a few extremely vocal players that are going to balk at any change that doesn't maintain the status quo, with regards to their character, under any circumstances. This will include those that don't want to rebuild a deed, those that don't want to play on other servers, and those that feel that their time PLAYING a game holds some monetary value.


 


You had a chance to have a nice PvP environment with Epic if you had just stuck to your guns and did periodic map restructuring to include characters as well. I could see the Epic servers continuing to enjoy a healthy population had you done this using a time frame based on the completion of a set amount of Valrei scenarios. However, Epic may as well be considered Wild v2.0, just with increased skill gain and half of a useless map.


 


To be honest, with the exception of a handful of people, all of the people I PvP'd with on Chaos or Epic have given up on Wurm as a viable sandbox game. I'm not sure there are that many people that are looking for another half-hearted attempt at pacifying the masses while protecting the long time turbonerd. Those people that resist the changes so fervently are trying to convince the rest that their time investment in game is worth something to anyone but themselves. If you are here to make money, then these people, no matter how long they've worked on their character, are not the basis for a business model that is meant to expand.


 


I played in a very large group of people when we PvP'd. It maintained a similar size throughout Epic until about 18-24 months ago. Since that time, I've watched people that had built a tight community together split up into smaller groups that rarely talk to each other anymore, for a wide range of reasons. I can only speak about the wants of the small group of 8 or 9 people I still contact daily from that group. What I can tell you from those experiences is that, we spend what I consider a huge amount of money on gaming trying to fill the gap left by Wurm since we all stopped playing. All of it, money we rarely spent anywhere else but on Wurm, and it's sad for me to say, but I doubt that is revenue you'll ever see again from my end. There is such a bad taste in the mouth of former PvP players that I think it might be time for you to retool your game for a different target customer.


 


I think all of your PvP servers are too far along the road, in terms of established fiefdoms, to benefit from any type of change. While some changes might see an influx of new players for a certain server, these gains are short lived and net very little in revenue growth over time. No matter what you tweak or change, in essence, no one wants to play on a competitive server where there is no chance to be competitive. And I say this as someone who is a huge turbonerd grinder, and has PvP'd extensively on all servers. Pto on Wild, Jackburton/Boomhauer on Epic, and this account on Challenge...for those of you who are going to cry for a name.


 


TLDR: I think it's just a waste of time to try to change anything to attract new players to any of the PvP servers, including Challenge. The gains don't warrant the time invested.


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I think a reset is not going to do much unless you change the Geo politics and make the terraforming events rarer. Without new mechanics it will be fresh, you'll get people and then they'll remember why they left in the first place.

I would say removing the curve's impact on skill gain would be better than going half challenge. As it stands the curve makes epic gains really much slower than freedom's at about 50. Thus, the curve becomes a hinderance for catching up to elite players.

One thing you could consider is making the valrei missions more engaging. Maybe have a high difficulty mission that lasts a whole campaign and yields a nice reward, along with the easier missions we're used to.

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TLDR: I think it's just a waste of time to try to change anything to attract new players to any of the PvP servers, including Challenge. The gains don't warrant the time invested.

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I think it would be a waste of time to change minor things like maps or skill gain or PMK's and expect big results.  Big changes can still have a big effect.

Edited by Uberknot

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I didn't bother reading other's whineouts but why wouldn't anyone read my suggestion list? None the less...

Hope for a server merge with all servers on Epic!!!

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Bingo Uberknot.


 


And Hank, I think my claim that time is wasted on changes is solid considering the current state of populations on PvP servers, and their constant trend downward, regardless of any change. After seeing that you consider map resets and skill gain manipulation to be "minor" changes, I'm left wondering what do you think is a "big" change?


 


Fact is, not one single change to any game mechanic over the years resulted in any type of sustained increase in player populations. If those changes were to have worked, we'd still see an Epic cluster with close to 100/400 on each server like it had 6 months after opening...when everything started going to pot.


 


And Challenge isn't working because it's being half-assed just like Epic was. It's all band-aids on bullet wounds here. Nothing is delivered with more than a thought on quick bursts of revenue over long term sustainability.


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not much for forum posting but if serenity got reset removing the last 4-5 months of my life and if skills got reset around 2-3 years of my life i think id be done with the game in a heartbeat as it would be just a hemhorage in money especially since ive heard traders and merchants will be reset


 


all i see is monetary loss from this


 


serenity really isnt that bad


 


theres a saying "you dont fix whats not broke"


 


well im off the forum now


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Ok I'm pretty sure I speak for the PvP player base on this, but a lot of changes to PvP in the past few years were made by Rolf with out our voice to the matter. I mean it's his game. So he can do as he please.

The PvP player base have been asking for changes for a long time now.

What happens? The same thing every time. Rolf makes a thread requesting for freed back. Never replies and then, a few weeks later he adds random tweaks and ninja content that no one ask for.

Play the game Rolf. PvP with your dev crew and maybe see why the pvp player base is so low.

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Yep, I want only 1 pve server myself, thats deliverance. 1 PvP server, thats chaos, do not like splitting the community, and no i do not like xanadu a bit. Deliverance and chaos is all the game needs, 1 pve server and 1 pvp server.

-1 I wish there was a dislike button.

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My greatest fear is that Rolf may actually listen to these people calling for server deletion. You want to run off existing players go ahead and delete years of work. I can't speak for epic or PvP but deleting freedom servers isn't going to fix any problems with epic.

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My greatest fear is that Rolf may actually listen to these people calling for server deletion. You want to run off existing players go ahead and delete years of work. I can't speak for epic or PvP but deleting freedom servers isn't going to fix any problems with epic.

Affliction is better and more popular than ever and that was just deleted.

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My greatest fear is that Rolf may actually listen to these people calling for server deletion. You want to run off existing players go ahead and delete years of work. I can't speak for epic or PvP but deleting freedom servers isn't going to fix any problems with epic.

 

Don't get why your talking about freedom here, But just to point this out, This is about epic, Not deleting freedom, Deletion of anything in freedom is wurm-suicide, The end.

 

Now, Let's not derail this thread. 

 

Soo is anyone willing to go over the past 15+ pages and get a consensus yet? Or atleast merge a few so this discussion can move forward a bit than just us bickering back n fourth about this n that.

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Rolf, this is what I see when I look at all these PVP servers with no population...

I view challenge as a test server and I honestly think it can continue to be used as one to actually test things that will be implemented into the rest of the real servers. However I do not think you should be making So many challenges to often because the prizes will just always be won by the same people over and over. The activity on round 2 challenge was just as dead as Epic.

Now let's talk about the slowly but surely dying Epic server. There are many people who do not want to hear it, but epic is on it's death and is asking to be taken off life support. Rolf would not be making this discussion topic if epic did not have issues.

What I propose to not lose the epic playerbase is perhaps some kind of happy transition is possible to happen? Most if not all Epic players live on the home servers, its an option that chaos for example does not have. It allows for the extra defense and knowing your enemies cannot build on your server but you can still be raided. I propose an equation based on time played and slightly on the upside epic players transition to freedom skills. I say slightly upside due to the fact my proposal makes the epic players transition into freedom skills.

What this does is starts the process, followed by removing elevation, turning chaos into what would be elevation. Add the home servers to chaos north west and south.

Now you would have 1 cluster of solid PvP and just challenge which can still be used as the test server.

And no I'm not just saying this because I play on chaos, I base this off of the clear fact that chaos has a steady playerbase while epic has been declining since inception.

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Affliction is better and more popular than ever and that was just deleted.

Well not really deleted since affliction is still around. People are calling to get rid of servers altogether. Hey if that's what needs to be done let's delete all the servers then. Yours and mine. Wipe Indy, chaos, deli, exo, cele, xana, pristine, release, all of epic too. That way it'll be fair.

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Honestly i'm not even playing Wurm atm... But my 2 cents follows:


Challenge, albeit nice and all in the sense that its a great improvement for PvP kinda blew up the rest of the game, i mean a free to play, fastest skill gain in the game, fastest everything, with lots of cool perks, entirely designed around the premise of transience and PvP for PvP.


That's the dream. So why would anyone interested in PvP actual, not the politics and Forum jousting that goes on for the rest of the servers even play in those?


 


So yeah, it kinda destroyed the rest of the game, not only Epic, but even PvE servers are getting kinda barren.


Basically the whole game needs a revamp. The tired old premise of making everything cost a ton of time (and/or a ton of money) is old, its gone, and its just dragging the game down. I can't play Wurm anymore. I had to get on so many thing at a time to not get bored, i ended up not getting anything done.


Its truly like, 0,01 skill gained after 6 hours grinding Weaponsmith? Ok, i'm gonna do Shields for a while cause otherwise i'm going mad, but then i get to that same spot with shields, but i haven't improved any skill to a competitive level to the "crazy"* people in the game.


Basically the game is niche enough that even people within the niche will burn out at some point. I'm still not sure whether i'm quitting or just taking a break, but i don't see myself playing wurm anytime soon, even.


 


Personally i think that's the the greatest flaw in Wurm, is that Rolf has an apparent hatred for the player base. And surely his rash decisions at time simply reinforce that idea. The game is already unforgiving, and Rolf (who hardly plays it) thinks improving it is making it harder for new players to get ahead. That's a flawed logic if there is one, because without renewal (and honestly people, just because the 2000 people that play this buy a new alt whenever a new server comes out doesn't really mean the game is growing - although the bottom line for Rolf is more or less the same), without actual new players that stick to the game for more than 2 weeks, without that, the game will die out. And honestly its too good of an idea to die.


But surely as i'm not playing it atm, its happening, specially with the spree of Sandbox games that are coming due to the success of minecraft. And you see a lot of them taking a more wurmish approach, specially in graphics. And since all of them use more up-to-date technology and philosophy (less grind) Wurm's potential new players are heading that way instead of this.


 


And while i'm sure that lots of people will remain loyal to Wurm, i mean jesus, i've started playing Wurm over 5 years ago. I never played any game for 5 years, and there's people that play Wurm daily for way longer than that. That's freaking amazing. But those few won't be able to keep the game running. Specially since they too are trickling out.


 


So yeah. Its not just Epic, or Challenge, or Chaos. You need to start thinking of Wurm, as a game with a global perspective instead of thinking server by server or game mode by game mode, the game needs some cohesion, the community is too fragmented as it is and with each try to refresh the game and add new servers to give it a people pull you just make it worse.


The biggest pull for the game is playing with others, and each new server, each new thing that fragments the community just looses you that many players in the long run.


 


* I say "Crazy" out of a bit of jealousy and admiration, because i simply get bored and crazed out of my mind with that much grind, its kinda like when you tell a guy that ran 3 marathons in 3 days that he's crazy. Its not meant as an insult, really.


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Rolf, this is what I see when I look at all these PVP servers with no population...

I view challenge as a test server and I honestly think it can continue to be used as one to actually test things that will be implemented into the rest of the real servers. However I do not think you should be making So many challenges to often because the prizes will just always be won by the same people over and over. The activity on round 2 challenge was just as dead as Epic.

Now let's talk about the slowly but surely dying Epic server. There are many people who do not want to hear it, but epic is on it's death and is asking to be taken off life support. Rolf would not be making this discussion topic if epic did not have issues.

What I propose to not lose the epic playerbase is perhaps some kind of happy transition is possible to happen? Most if not all Epic players live on the home servers, its an option that chaos for example does not have. It allows for the extra defense and knowing your enemies cannot build on your server but you can still be raided. I propose an equation based on time played and slightly on the upside epic players transition to freedom skills. I say slightly upside due to the fact my proposal makes the epic players transition into freedom skills.

What this does is starts the process, followed by removing elevation, turning chaos into what would be elevation. Add the home servers to chaos north west and south.

Now you would have 1 cluster of solid PvP and just challenge which can still be used as the test server.

And no I'm not just saying this because I play on chaos, I base this off of the clear fact that chaos has a steady playerbase while epic has been declining since inception.

 

And your proof of Epic dying is?  I've been playing Epic solid since launch, and I've yet to see anything that proves Epic is dying.  However I do see the same people whining that Epic is dying and you're bad for thinking otherwise, year after year.  So why isn't Epic fully dead yet?  Why am I seeing people return to Epic as usual?  Why am I seeing more action coming from Epic than Chaos?  The only reason servers seem low is because Epic is split between 4 servers to retain its functionality.  There are 136 players on Epic, and 73 on Chaos as of the time of this post.  Imagine that Epic was combined into one server to compare to Chaos, because thats really what it is, it just has server borders to separate homes.

 

There is 0 possible way to move Epic accounts to Freedom, whether it's account skill balancing, different skills on each cluster, items, deeds, etc or pleasing the playerbase.  Most on Epic do not want to play Chaos or we would be there already, read it and understand that

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And your proof of Epic dying is?  I've been playing Epic solid since launch, and I've yet to see anything that proves Epic is dying.  However I do see the same people whining that Epic is dying and you're bad for thinking otherwise, year after year.  So why isn't Epic fully dead yet?  Why am I seeing people return to Epic as usual?  Why am I seeing more action coming from Epic than Chaos?  The only reason servers seem low is because Epic is split between 4 servers to retain its functionality.  There are 136 players on Epic, and 73 on Chaos as of the time of this post.  Imagine that Epic was combined into one server to compare to Chaos, because thats really what it is, it just has server borders to separate homes.

 

There is 0 possible way to move Epic accounts to Freedom, whether it's account skill balancing, different skills on each cluster, items, deeds, etc or pleasing the playerbase.  Most on Epic do not want to play Chaos or we would be there already, read it and understand that

Edited by akaedis

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And your proof of Epic dying is?  I've been playing Epic solid since launch, and I've yet to see anything that proves Epic is dying.  However I do see the same people whining that Epic is dying and you're bad for thinking otherwise, year after year.  So why isn't Epic fully dead yet?  Why am I seeing people return to Epic as usual?  Why am I seeing more action coming from Epic than Chaos?  The only reason servers seem low is because Epic is split between 4 servers to retain its functionality.  There are 136 players on Epic, and 73 on Chaos as of the time of this post.  Imagine that Epic was combined into one server to compare to Chaos, because thats really what it is, it just has server borders to separate homes.

 

There is 0 possible way to move Epic accounts to Freedom, whether it's account skill balancing, different skills on each cluster, items, deeds, etc or pleasing the playerbase.  Most on Epic do not want to play Chaos or we would be there already, read it and understand that

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If Epic is dying then Chaos is dying too.

Edited by akaedis

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Change the combat system. Maybe make an arena where you can schedule fights? We just need a reason to pvp. 

Edited by DOE

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Impossible for chaos to die, It has a market revolving around it now, Theirs a supply and demand, It ain't going anywhere now.

 

Edit: Sorry for off-topic post, But you can't compare epic to chaos or vice versa in terms of numbers or activities.

Edited by Uberknot

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Gary, Please explain to everyone here, How epic isn't dying. If you can prove the past 18 or 18+ Pages all wrong, ill then believe you when you say "Epic isn't dying". If your gonna say "Well theirs still people here!" and "Well the population is coming back", That's not working for us or rolf, Think its easy on the company to support the epic cluster when it can't even hold its own for longer than 5+ months. 

Anyways, Please, do tell how epic isn't dying, Cause all im seeing is complaint about epic after complaint and how it is dying, Which are all mostly true, Iv YET to see real evidence that hey, Epic is very well alive and self sustaining, and won't fall to the fate that chaos had when it was isolated from everything else.

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