Perimeters....

[Miretta 1,415]

i thought perimeter (beyond the 5 first tiles) is ONLY to save an area for future expansion, so that people can not just deed over a part you would like to deed. This also means that it was always meant as a "temporary" solution, not as a cheaper way to protect lands "you would like to have".

 

 

The only thing that never really made sense to me is, if building houses is not allowed on perimeter by non deed members, to prevent blocking of roads etc...why is it allowed to build fences? sure they can be bashed, but I can see that there are some inconsistencies regarding why game mechanics are how they are in the first place...

[Ayes 3,715]

Basically I like the OP's suggestion. Just make another option on the Settlement form for "Perimeter" with most of the same boxes to X. These options could then be applied to citizens, allies and special names as per Deed Roles. Then others not allowed could not alter the perimeters accordingly.

 

Decay would remain the same since it is off deed tiles.

 

=Ayes=

[Uberknot 327]

All I am going to say at this point is push for too much and it goes away just like the Code of Conduct.

[wipeout 1,355]

perimeter was originally there on indy to stop the fear that people had when every pve'r was pushed onto indy thanks to rolf's screw ups people where scared that the coast line would become nothing but deeds linked to deeds with no gaps in between for others to walk through or plant new needs in between 2 big ones(thanks to aoc) but really its just wilderness with some extra protection(just like highways) what should be changed is the way the gms handle possible cases of grieving

if someone runs to an other deeds area and digs a moat all around that deeds place scooping up all the dirt in the perimeter that should be seen as grieving not as in "oh thats perfectly okay to do" like it is now gms should look at a case and say "oh this person lives over here has all that land to dig up dirt yet he dug it from over here 15 minutes walking away and its right next to an other deed yup its grieving" instead of sticking to the "deed it or loose it" rule

if gms looked at someone destroying someone else's "general area around a persons deed" as grieving and not as "oh they did nothing wrong" then things would be fine we now have several servers loads of land thus people should not deed next to each other within 5-10 tiles of an existing deed and then trolling the hell out of people who already live there and get away with it that just shouldnt happen and if it does gms should disband the deed that was used to grief and warn the person who did it

[Mordraug 2,542]

If griefing happens, get a GM to help.

 

We can't make a perim untouchable.  With more perim protections, if you had wall to wall perims, nobody could ever build roads through. Trees in the way? too bad.  rocks too steep? too bad.  Dirt wall? too bad.  We need to keep teraforming open on perims.

 

Ehm.... you do know Wurm's population density doesn't reach 1 person per square km, right?  And that's counting alts.

[Kagrenac 812]

Ehm.... you do know Wurm's population density doesn't reach 1 person per square km, right?  And that's counting alts.

People cluster heavily around desirable terrain.

 

That also kinda isnt true, Xanadu is 1024 square km, and has 1600 deeds

Independence is 256, and has 900

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kagrenac

[Mordraug 2,542]

People cluster heavily around desirable terrain.

 

And will more often than not fence and terraform in such a way that perimeters or lack thereof are the least of one's issues when travelling unfamiliar territory.

 

Considering how "free passage" is apparently more important than "not getting griefed on the land you paid for", try travelling a coastline on populated servers?   Try cutting a diagonal line between two highways?

 

Besides, the "save the griefers" crowd is using flawed logics that cancel each other out as usual:  

 

"Deed it or lose it" ... well that's assuming expansion is possible and still leaves 5 tiles where you can get your deed cut off from the world and griefed all over the place.

 

"You're stuck with griefers, people need to pass around your deed freely":  Funny, griefers have a way of messing up the terraform in the first place, destroying roads in the process.

 

"Fence it, but don't ask for protections!!!"   Wait.. were we discussing free passage a moment ago?

 

Here's a tip:  I also find it hilarious when someone whose guts I hate gets griefed, don't get me wrong.  If it happens to someone I like, I advocate for the griefing method itself to be dealt with.  When it happens to someone can't stand, my original stance sticks.

 

The protections I suggested in the OP, they're for everyone even though it would deny me future excursions to hated deeds.  To the "Save the Griefers Foundation", remember you have perimeters too, and I know a couple of you... you'll be demanding community support, GM justice, and changes of rules the minute it happens to you.... seen your reactions when YOU feel griefed.

[Pride 237]

 

Right. And that excuses people's d-bag behavior where 40-year-olds can act like they are ten and get away with it, and then snottily state that they are within the game rules

Funny I know two people just like that who if perims were changed would take advantage of it.

[Tarator 100]

Right then I shall just shrink my deed to the smallest 11x11 and the rest ill perimeter for half the price and expect control of said perimeter  ... ....genius simply genius 

Im sure Rolf would go for a 50% drop in upkeep across the servers .......................

[Mordraug 2,542]

Right then I shall just shrink my deed to the smallest 11x11 and the rest ill perimeter for half the price and expect control of said perimeter  ... ....genius simply genius 

Im sure Rolf would go for a 50% drop in upkeep across the servers .......................

 

So perimeters..... always been a point of contention and a favorite for griefing a deed.... 

 

In a Town Square thread I popped the comment about them that goes: "50% of the cost for 0% of the benefits sounds like a really shoddy deal to me".

*snip*.... why not give perimeters 50% of the benefits too.

 

Tied directly to deed settings (if deed allows it perimeter too, deed disallows so does perimeter):

-  Woodcutting.

-  Digging

-  Mining

-  Terraforming  Double restriction, my bad =P

-  And the existing building restrictions.

*snip*

Sidenote: Saw another thread about separate settings for resource digging (tar/peat/clay/moss) which would also rock combined with this, as many perimeters hold those resources currently, and on the other hand deeding over tar without messing up all the locals would be nice for placement purposes.

 

Because your fences/items/storage can still be bashed, stuff still decays, things can be picked up, animals tamed/stolen/killed, *fences built*, foraging, botanizing, push, pull, turn, load/unload, locks attached etc.. etc.. etc.. regardless of deed settings, unlike actual deed tiles.

 

In fact I misphrased... with these proposed changes it'd be "50% of the cost for 4/20 of the benefit" give or take.

 

And yes, I'm a genius despite my temporarily posting "digging" and "terraforming" as separate things.

 

Matter of factly, I bet it leads to a few smaller deeds, sure, and a LOT more deeds expanding their perimeters a handful of tiles beyond the included 5.

[Kagrenac 812]

 

 

Because your fences/items/storage can still be bashed, stuff still decays, things can be picked up, animals tamed/stolen/killed, *fences built*, foraging, botanizing, push, pull, turn, load/unload, locks attached etc.. etc.. etc.. regardless of deed settings, unlike actual deed tiles.

 

In fact I misphrased... with these proposed changes it'd be "50% of the cost for 4/20 of the benefit" give or take.

 

And yes, I'm a genius despite my temporarily posting "digging" and "terraforming" as separate things.

 

Matter of factly, I bet it leads to a few smaller deeds, sure, and a LOT more deeds expanding their perimeters a handful of tiles beyond the included 5.

 

So you have complete control over the land, except people can modify any items left there (unless you have a house), and build/bash fences.

 

If you disabled terraforming+building/bashing fences a minimum sized deed+perimeter would be all you ever needed.

Even without it, you essentially have the land locked down.

Why would anyone build fences/bash into an area they can't do anything with.

[Mordraug 2,542]

Why would anyone build fences/bash into an area they can't do anything with.

 

For the same reason they travel halfway across a server to dig up someone's perimeter when they had plenty of desert and dredgeable areas way closer to home.

 

Way to miss the point of the thread.

[Audrel 2,223]

I won't give you exact locations but it's something in the ballpark of this. The digger's (known) deed is somewhere on the east side of Release on that long peninsula. The digging was done somewhere about the east side of Spawn Lake, a good long way from the water itself. Not too far, but a long walk with a pocket full of dirt. They passed through two deserts (possibly 3 depending on how they came), through a canal project asking for diggers to come help, past dozens of deeds with perimeters of their own, through miles of open undeeded land, and half way across a server to dig in the perimeter of that deed.

 

I rode all around the area of our deed. There's no construction going on nearly which leads me to believe they don't have a new deed in the local area. No one seems to. There are a lot of dying and dead deeds in the local area however. There are also a lot of death pits - small mines dug into a fairly flat spot then dug very deep down to make a huge fatigue pit amply supplied with your normal mine critters.

 

I assumed that from phrasing like "For the same reason they travel halfway across a server to dig up someone's perimeter when they had plenty of desert and dredgeable areas way closer to home" that it would be rather obvious we weren't talking about a neighbor needing some dirt. Also from what I said about the area and that there is much open space around the place to dig until your fingers bleed from pushing buttons. But apparently, it wasn't.

 

Also, I stated I never called a GM though I think one of my partners finally did after a couple days of this thread. Justify it all you want, people. This person went out of their way to haul off a huge swath of our perimeter.

 

To the wall it all off people... I just might. Play it like it was on Chaos. The only thing missing is the person to person combat these days.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Audrel

[Ayes 3,715]

Mandatory Perimeters should be reduced to 1 tile with all building of fences, houses and other stationary no-pass through objects blocked from being built within it. This would then allow roads/highways to be built within this protected space, thus serving the purpose of unrestricted access through them.

 

Larger Mandatory Perimeters beyond this size are pointless and detrimental with their resulting problems. If the player wants a larger perimeter they can always purchase more, with the current permissions/restrictions attached to it.

 

=Ayes=

[Sarcaticous 338]

Restrictions should NOT include non consumable resources. Clay, peat and tar do not go away. They are forever and should be usable by anyone if in a perimeter. Same for anything you can plant. Perimeter restrictions should only apply to building of anything (fences included), digging and mining. That's all. 

 

Also, I agree with Ayes. Mandatory perimeter should be one tile or no tiles. If you want a perimeter buy it. The five free perimeter tiles are an old concept that is no longer needed and should reside with the dinosaurs. 

Edited April 29, 2015 by Sarcaticous

[Mordraug 2,542]

Restrictions should NOT include non consumable resources. Clay, peat and tar do not go away. They are forever and should be usable by anyone if in a perimeter. Same for anything you can plant. Perimeter restrictions should only apply to building of anything (fences included), digging and mining. That's all. 

 

Also, I agree with Ayes. Mandatory perimeter should be one tile or no tiles. If you want a perimeter buy it. The five free perimeter tiles are an old concept that is no longer needed and should reside with the dinosaurs. 

 

Digging restriction with exception on resources****

[Uberknot 327]

-1 you want more land deed it.  Perimeters should never be given any control at all.

[Ayes 3,715]

Mandatory Perimeters should be reduced to 1 tile with all building of fences, houses and other stationary no-pass through objects blocked from being built within it. This would then allow roads/highways to be built within this protected space, thus serving the purpose of unrestricted access through them.

 

Larger Mandatory Perimeters beyond this size are pointless and detrimental with their resulting problems. If the player wants a larger perimeter they can always purchase more, with the current permissions/restrictions attached to it.

 

=Ayes=

 

If my suggestion were implemented, digging by anyone would have to be allowed within this 1 tile Mandatory Perimeter to enable roads/highways to be built through them by anyone. The suggestion I have proposed is to allow access with roads/highways, preventing this from being blocked. No digging in this reduced Mandatory Perimeter would obstruct this process and therefore makes no sense if implemented per my suggestion.

 

Furthermore, this does not imply control of the Mandatory 1 tile Perimeter by anyone, rather the contrary, as it keeps it open passage to all with the ability for all to build roads/highways through it which then can not be blocked off with fencing, houses or blocking objects. Seems some are missing the point here.

 

=Ayes=

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

-1 you want more land deed it. Perimeters should never be given any control at all.

This ^

[Sarcaticous 338]

-1 you want more land deed it.  Perimeters should never be given any control at all.

 

'This' ^ results in huge fenced off perimeters that at times cannot be passed. 'This' is why enclosures became the bane of the community. If 'This' continues 'This' will ensure fences all over WURM. I hate fences so I also dislike 'This'.

[Mordraug 2,542]

'This' ^ results in huge fenced off perimeters that at times cannot be passed. 'This' is why enclosures became the bane of the community. If 'This' continues 'This' will ensure fences all over WURM. I hate fences so I also dislike 'This'.

 

You keep telling yourself that Wurm has enough players for " "'this' ^ " " to be an issue.  Way more troublesome these days are unmarked abandoned terraforms from disbanded deeds.

 

Sounds more like player retention is a much.. much bigger problem.

 

Besides, people wouldn't need to fence their perimeters if they could keep every innocent newbie and asswipe griefer from clearcutting and digging the place to shreds.   Or is simple logic too much for the classical suggestions' trolls these days?

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Sounds more like player retention is a much.. much bigger problem.

Besides, people wouldn't need to fence their perimeters if they could keep every innocent newbie and asswipe griefer from clearcutting and digging the place to shreds. Or is simple logic too much for the classical suggestions' trolls these days?

Player retention is not a problem, this game always has ups and downs playerbase wise. Epic even has players coming more and more so there isn't much player retention there.

Also, cutting trees is not griefing at all lol, trees respwawn like crazy in wurm....

And calling ppl suggestions trolls lol, should I call u a mad troll then?

[KanePT 699]

OP is a very reasonable solution to a very old problem.

+1

[Mordraug 2,542]

*snip*

 

Deed settings don't really do much in Epic, soooo.... why are you here?  Waiting to have your shod club imped?  

[LorenaMontana 3,008]

Deed settings don't really do much in Epic, soooo.... why are you here? Waiting to have your shod club imped?

I prefer belaying pins.

And deeds settings actually do a lot in epic.