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Mordraug

Perimeters....

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The intent was to allow you to pre purchase tiles you plan to deed cheaply and pay a very low upkeep to reserve those tiles.

 

The reason you get no rights to them is they are not costing as much purchase or keep.

 

I wish they would just make people pay deeded costs period for all tiles and end this trash of I own my perimeter.

 

A perimeter of 5 tiles is free , its a free buffer zone 

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As I said above, you need that buffer or there would be places where there would be no passage around a series of deeds for literally hundreds of tiles. Also, the game code just doesn't handle suburban type lot touching lot because of the last border tile between deed and perimeter. Without a minimum of one tile between, two deeds would share a wall. Similarly, two mines would share a reinforced wall. Both deeds would have ownership meaning both deeds could alter/remove. I think border disputes are bad enough with forced 10 tiles to shout at each other across. Imagine with none.


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As I said above, you need that buffer or there would be places where there would be no passage around a series of deeds for literally hundreds of tiles. Also, the game code just doesn't handle suburban type lot touching lot because of the last border tile between deed and perimeter. Without a minimum of one tile between, two deeds would share a wall. Similarly, two mines would share a reinforced wall. Both deeds would have ownership meaning both deeds could alter/remove. I think border disputes are bad enough with forced 10 tiles to shout at each other across. Imagine with none.

 

 

fine remove perimeter and make an untouchable free 5 tiles around deeded tiles that no one can own or do anything too.

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Tarator, evidently you don't understand. The first five tiles are the only free perimeter tiles. Perimeter tiles beyond the five are most certainly paid for. It's right there in black and white also. Seems to me the only ones who would have a problem with more restrictions on paid perimeter are people who want to grief. That's just an observation but I don't see why anyone else would have a problem with it. I mean, why would you care if there were restrictions on a paid perimeter unless you wanted to do something to annoy someone? There are plenty of tiles you can do things with and not mess with someone. 


 


That's good Tarator. You edit out what I was referring to.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Edited by Clatius

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What is so special about that 5 tiles of dirt that makes it better than the 100 tiles beyond it, Zeke? I'm not talking about a densely populated area. Am I supposed to expand my deed every time this guy wants THAT 5 tiles of dirt?

If you want the whole area around you to be untouched, then yes, you expand the deed over it.

 

sidenote: I live in a deed with over 33000 tiles. :3

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I do understand , if you read what I wrote " the first 5 are free " and I also said its unfortunate that some one did that but as the rules stand perimeters are not the property of the deed owner they are buffer zones be it 5 tiles or 600000 paid tiles 


 


Editing to address you Clatius , I am closing this thread as your non thought out retort is adding nothing to the discussion 


Edited by Tarator

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Just make it so perimeter cant be touched by anyone including the mayor. problem solved.


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If you want the whole area around you to be untouched, then yes, you expand the deed over it.

 

sidenote: I live in a deed with over 33000 tiles. :3

 

Meh, just gonna wall it all off. They can grind their bashing skills before they work on their digging skills. I am not sure how big this deed actually is now. I would be like walling in China. LOL

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Just make it so perimeter cant be touched by anyone including the mayor. problem solved.

*dumps 100 dirt from the inventory in the perimeter*

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There must be some misunderstanding here, seeing the arguments from people against deed owners having a bit more control on their own perimeters... let's try and clear them out:


 


Free:  Buy 1 liter of booze, supermarket people taped a free bottle of mixer to it.  You can cut the tape and take only the booze to the register, explain to the lady that you don't like that mixer and have to walk home anyways.


 


Included: Buy 1 liter of booze, it comes with a bottle that has a convenient cap on it to evaporate it.  You need the included bottle and cap to be able to complete the purchase.


 


If a random stranger ran past you with a hammer and broke your bottle of booze, I REALLY REALLY doubt you'd defend the guy because "i didn't pay for the bottle, i came to buy booze and besides, he didn't drink any of it so it's not theft".... would you?


 


"I'm gonna leave my deed, drive my cart for about 5 minutes without being IN SIGHT of a deed, plenty of forests to get lost in on the way, until I finally reach someone's perimeter, dig it down to rock, break into their mines because ffs iron is RARE and there WEREN'T AAAANY public mines and/or abandoned ones on the way"...... You guys are seriously more concerned about the rights of those people than the actual deed holders', AND YOU STILL HAVE THE GALL TO SAY "DEED IT OR LOSE IT?"


 


What a coincidence that of all those undeeded tiles he went over, none was good enough but the ones with a deed's name on it were suddenly the best dirt ever with the best trees ever and the best iron ever (perimeter ... let's get technical... "this is in the perimeter OF The Bearkshark's Hideout" when you look at the tile, not "This is NOT part of The Bearshark's Hideout" .. text says it all).


 


It's really really hard to not question the motifs and personal agendas of people who leap in the defense of such bullcrap actions.


 


Edit: Don't PM me saying you're feeling accused, I'm not accusing anyone but I have the right to address some pretty illogical arguments which make you look bad.


Edited by Mordraug
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A little too late to benefit me since some utter *palm*-pot griefed my maple forest on release.

However, others (save those who did the deed!) should not suffer because I did!

 

edit as an afterthought : I will say though that the OP is a little too inflammatory for my taste, I would not say I ever suspected the GMS, I simply knew they were unable to help me no matter how much they wanted to.

 

The best solution would simply be to make perimeters optional without giving them extra powers, deed it or lose it is now very much the wurm thing.

 

As a small note to the post below me, those who argue against it are people who have yet to experience the problem.  I can say with certainty that there are more griefers in support of this idea than against it, for only they can see the full extent of the loophole  ^_^

+1

Edited by Etherdrifter

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You are exactly right Mordraug. And those that argue against are probably those that would do as you have said. I see no other reason to disagree.


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The more responses I read the more it shows Perimeter needs to be removed period Deed it or loose it needs to be the rule of the day.  With the removal of Perimeter tiles people will have to decide if they really want to claim those tiles with deed or not.  That is what should happen and would work better than the cheap system of buying massive perimeters with low upkeep that some folks simply cannot understand they do not own or have any say what so ever...


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It's really really hard to not question the motifs and personal agendas of people who leap in the defense of such bullcrap actions.

Once again.

Perimeter isnt there to prevent anyone from doing anything to the land, thats what DEEDS are for.

All perimeter is for is to prevent someone else from taking control over the land.

Edited by Zekezor

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Tarator, evidently you don't understand. The first five tiles are the only free perimeter tiles. Perimeter tiles beyond the five are most certainly paid for. It's right there in black and white also. Seems to me the only ones who would have a problem with more restrictions on paid perimeter are people who want to grief. That's just an observation but I don't see why anyone else would have a problem with it. I mean, why would you care if there were restrictions on a paid perimeter unless you wanted to do something to annoy someone? There are plenty of tiles you can do things with and not mess with someone. 

 

That's good Tarator. You edit out what I was referring to.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 

 

Okay Clatius , we ( a  group of 3 ) own 7 deeds and have worked towards helping and benefiting the Release community for over 2 years , I as stated said it is a shame that it happened but we do not own perimeters it really is that simple , this is not the first time this discussion has been held and I am certain it is not the last .

My perimeter is a buffer room to breath if I want control of it I would deed it

The Irony of this post stings 

 

 

Ninja edit - I did not edit out anything as I did not quote you I made an observation 

Edited by Tarator

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I didn't read more than two or three lines of these hueg walls of text but it's no coincidence that these episodes don't occur on pvp servers beyond normal raiding. Make of that what you will

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-1

 

Perimeter excist to prevent people to "claim" the land with structures and deeds, nothing more.

If you want control over what people do with the land then you deed it.

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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." - Robert E. Howard. 1933.


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This:

 


 

"I'm gonna leave my deed, drive my cart for about 5 minutes without being IN SIGHT of a deed, plenty of forests to get lost in on the way, until I finally reach someone's perimeter, dig it down to rock, break into their mines because ffs iron is RARE and there WEREN'T AAAANY public mines and/or abandoned ones on the way"...... You guys are seriously more concerned about the rights of those people than the actual deed holders', AND YOU STILL HAVE THE GALL TO SAY "DEED IT OR LOSE IT?"

 

I have always played multiplayer non-pvp games in the following manner. If it would get your face smashed in, irl, then don't fricking do it. You wanna grief, go play PVP and grief all day long.

 

Don't come take a dook on my daisies, or smash the flowerpot sitting just past my front lawn just because you can. That's pure d-bag behavior and would get you thumped anywhere in the world.

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If griefing happens, get a GM to help.


 


We can't make a perim untouchable.  With more perim protections, if you had wall to wall perims, nobody could ever build roads through. Trees in the way? too bad.  rocks too steep? too bad.  Dirt wall? too bad.  We need to keep teraforming open on perims.


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I didn't read more than two or three lines of these hueg walls of text but it's no coincidence that these episodes don't occur on pvp servers beyond normal raiding. Make of that what you will

 

That is because Freedom is PvP rules without being allowed to kill each other. Here are the condensed rules.

 

1. Deed It Or Lose It.

2. Deed It And Lose It Anyway

    a. Permissions contradict each other

    b. Permissions override each other

    c. There is a loophole to every one of them

    d. Nothing taken because of it will ever be replaced

3. Give me your 1 or more silvers a month and shut up

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The suggestion of disabling certain actions in perimeters has been brought up quite a few times over the years. Never once has it been changed to work in favor of the land owners.

Even the original deeding system had perimeters. When the players asked for control of their perimeters of their s5 and s10 villages because the newly founded Indy was getting fairly populated, Rolf completely ignored the request and rebuilt the deed system to still function the same, exact way... just a bit cheaper and more "configurable" for the player.

I was a player that paid for a 50 tile perimeter for many years. The best advice I can give other players is to drop their paid-for perimeter tiles and save the upkeep. You're paying for something that isn't secured for your future use.

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AoC was a "perimeter" feature that did give deeds more control. Except for size 5 villages it was one of the best deed features ever. The 50 tile perimeter for size 5 villages let people control large amounts of land for too cheep.


 


 


Its unfortunate that when the customized deed system was brought in deeds got more expensive.(a size 10 village was a 21x21 deed with a 100 tile no-deed boarder and the first 50 tiles of this "perimeter" was AoC. That is like a 21x21 with a 100 tile perimeter and 1 guard. Then it costs 1g and 10s upkeep ... now it costs about 2g45s buy and 25s upkeep. Note that AoC could not overlap but the no-deed boarders could.)


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The GMs are not corrupt... now if you will excuse me I have to prepare Horton and Horden's monthly gratuity.


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On topics like this people tend to forget one simple thing. These are REAL PEOPLE that you are dealing with on the other side of the keyboard. Not some A.I. People.


 


People with thoughts and feelings and problems, just like you. People who pay to enjoy a game, just like you.


 


People also forget that their rights stop where another's begins.


 


People have also, for years, used the now BS disclaimer of 'It's just a game'.


 


In something that you pay money for, and where real financial transactions happen, it's no longer 'just a game'. If you dook someone out of something they paid money for, just because you can, regardless of whether it's not expressly 'disallowed' by the ruleset, it still makes you no less of a grade A d-bag.


 


I remember in Vanilla WoW  (PVE Server) and LOTRO (PVE) where I'd be on top of a mining node fighting a mob, and some jerk would come up and mine it right out from under me as I was fighting the mob.


 


And I just thought to myself, who would do that?


 


Can you imagine anyone, and I mean ANYONE, walking up to someone standing on top a gold vein in the Old West and trying to mine it? Their lifespan would be measured in milliseconds. Oh, but it's only a game.


 


Right. And that excuses people's d-bag behavior where 40-year-olds can act like they are ten and get away with it, and then snottily state that they are within the game rules and if you don't like it, then deed it or lose it.


 


Why is it so hard for supposedly grown adults to not be such dysfunctional d-bags in a digital world? Why do they derive such obvious pleasure from making other people's leisure time hell?


 


There's something seriously wrong here, and it ain't with the game mechanics.


 


The ancient Greek concept of ἀναÏχία, where we get the modern word 'anarchy' from (but from which modern interpretations of it's meaning fail), meant that the people were so responsible that they didn't need oversight. Did you get that? That EACH INDIVIDUAL was SO RESPONSIBLE that they could rule themselves.


 


I look at things like this and I see why that concept failed. Most people can't govern a popsicle stand, much less themselves.


 


Which, at it's root, is the reason we have this problem in game. People can't govern themselves, and they bring that shoddiness to the game.


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